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Republican... God Will Save Us From Climate Change  
User currently offlinephotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2637 posts, RR: 18
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4829 times:

God will save us from climate change: U.S. Representative

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/ar...ate-change-u-s-representative?bn=1

"U.S. Representative John Shimkus, possible future chairman of the Congressional committee that deals with energy and its attendant environmental concerns, believes that climate change should not concern us since God has already promised not to destroy the Earth..........."

"........he dismissed the dangers of climate change and the warnings of the scientific community by quoting the Bible."



There's putting your head in the sand.... .not believing the scientists, and just plain ignorance, but this has to top the cake. To think that you can simply ignore climate change because "god" will save you is the height of stupidity IMHO.

What to you think?

177 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4814 times:

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
What to you think?

Is Ralph Nader, Al Gore, Bono, Bonnie Raitt and Goldman Sachs more capable at reversing Mother Nature's natural cycle?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21092 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4796 times:

I would agree that he is uniquely qualified for the chairmanship. Emphasis on "unique".   

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
What to you think?

Triumph of the Boobocracy?


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

Even though I believe that God will take care of humanity, that doesn't excuse ignorance and blatant polluting. That goes for anything. God loves you and wants you to live... but if you jump off a cliff what do ya think will happen???


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

Let me add...

If an airline pilot gave up and said they didn't want to deal with IFR conditions and that the safety of the flight was in God's hands, most would tear him out of the cockpit and take over the flight. It appears however, if the pilot was a republican, the pilot's actions would be acceptable.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12061 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4778 times:

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
There's putting your head in the sand....

So we should instead believe in the IPCC and the rest of the UN?

Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us. They said the north and soulth ice packs are melting, but in the past two years they have actually grown.

God will do what God wants to do, and nothing any scientist can do will ever change that.

Scientists do get some things right, and some things wrong. Mankind is not powerful enough to change the global climate, period. We cannot even make it consistantly rain by seeding clouds. It is hit and miss.


User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6546 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4764 times:
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Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us.

Science? really? Wasn't the Catholic Church saying that? Ask Copernicus and Galieo..



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4980 posts, RR: 44
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4753 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
So we should instead believe in the IPCC and the rest of the UN?

Seriously, where does this even enter into it? Don't try to turn this into yet another 'Global warming, yes or no' debate exactly like the dozens we've already had, with the exact same arguments made by the exact same people all over again. That is NOT what this thread is about. This is about a man whose counter-argument to global warming worries is 'God won't let it hurt us'. Not 'there is no Global warming', or 'the science doesn't add up' or whatever. No, God won't let it happen. If that kind of attitude doesn't scare the living daylights out of you coming from a man who has the potential to have real political power, I don't know what would.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us.

Remember that it was science, NOT religion, that came up with the right answer to those two. And it was religion, NOT science, that denied the reality and went as far as to persecute people for suggesting anything but a flat Earth or Earth being the center of the universe. So while your comparison might be a valid one, it's not in the way you intended it to be.

[Edited 2010-11-10 09:31:07]

User currently offlinephotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2637 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4744 times:

Quoting avent (Reply 5):
If an airline pilot gave up and said they didn't want to deal with IFR conditions and that the safety of the flight was in God's hands, most would tear him out of the cockpit and take over the flight. It appears however, if the pilot was a republican, the pilot's actions would be acceptable.

           

WOW..... that would also mean that not a single person in any aircraft that has crashed prayed or asked god to save them. I mean, look at all the crashes there have been over the years and how many thousands have died. Therefore, god must have wanted them to die or he would have listened to him. Sadistic bastard that god is, eh?


User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4729 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us.

Well gosh darn those intellectual elites who evolve their thinking as new information comes along. Ignorance really is bliss, and new knowledge just stirs things up needessly.


User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4715 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
God loves you and wants you to live...

While I commend you on your sincerity here, the bottom line is statements like that are meaningless in the sense that if you had the ability to click our fingers to fix a kid dying of starvation, I believe you would. Your god doesn't. I have no idea why you respect it, since its ethics are worse than yours, or, you have no clue about your god's ethics, and hence you have no basis for your statement in the first case.

Put another way, if a bystander with a fire hose stood by while a house with children inside burned to the ground, all the while the bystander proclaimed their love of children and that they wanted them to live, they'd be thrown in jail for criminal negligence. But you'd admire the bystander.


User currently offlineUNCRDU From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 195 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4700 times:

Quoting avent (Reply 11):

While I commend you on your sincerity here, the bottom line is statements like that are meaningless in the sense that if you had the ability to click our fingers to fix a kid dying of starvation, I believe you would. Your god doesn't. I have no idea why you respect it, since its ethics are worse than yours, or, you have no clue about your god's ethics, and hence you have no basis for your statement in the first case.

Put another way, if a bystander with a fire hose stood by while a house with children inside burned to the ground, all the while the bystander proclaimed their love of children and that they wanted them to live, they'd be thrown in jail for criminal negligence. But you'd admire the bystander.

We're still paying for the sins of Adam and Eve. God gave us a chance to live in a utopia, and we (humanity) ruined it. Now none are without sin, and all will eventually pay for it. God for the most part leaves us to create and suffer from our own mistakes. It is the afterlife that most concerns him.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7737 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4689 times:

Apparently this congressman is unfamiliar with the very Christian concept of stewardship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewardship_%28theology%29


Environmentalism is very much within the purview of this concept.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3592 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4672 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us.

Science changed as new facts and research suggested otherwise, religion did not.

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 12):
We're still paying for the sins of Adam and Eve. God gave us a chance to live in a utopia, and we (humanity) ruined it. Now none are without sin, and all will eventually pay for it. God for the most part leaves us to create and suffer from our own mistakes. It is the afterlife that most concerns him.

Oh ok, so all the suffering in the world for an apple? God never gave US a chance to live in a utopia, he gave it to two people, if it had stayed like that they would be the only ones to enjoy that utopia, maybe for ever (if they were not mortals) or maybe they would die in the end and that would be it. I still don't get that story - probably because it was never meant to be taken literally.


User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Is Ralph Nader, Al Gore, Bono, Bonnie Raitt and Goldman Sachs more capable at reversing Mother Nature's natural cycle?

Its what i was just about to say to comment on the topic. Its the same as saying politicians will save us from something false.



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
So we should instead believe in the IPCC and the rest of the UN?

Much more credibility than Rep. Shimkus.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us.
Quoting Scorpio (Reply 8):
Remember that it was science, NOT religion, that came up with the right answer to those two.

Bravo on both points Scorpio ! What we call science rests on the principal of testability, and the Catholic Church forbad even asking the question, let alone testing it.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
They said the north and soulth ice packs are melting, but in the past two years they have actually grown.

And the IPCC and other advocates are trying to make th epoint that it is the longer-term trend that is th eissue, not year-over-year variability.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):
God will do what God wants to do, and nothing any scientist can do will ever change that.

Both your points remain to be proven. They are merely opinions.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineUNCRDU From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 195 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4663 times:

Quoting lewis (Reply 14):
Oh ok, so all the suffering in the world for an apple? God never gave US a chance to live in a utopia, he gave it to two people, if it had stayed like that they would be the only ones to enjoy that utopia, maybe for ever (if they were not mortals) or maybe they would die in the end and that would be it. I still don't get that story - probably because it was never meant to be taken literally.

It wasn't essentially an "apple"-they had a choice: follow God's will or turn your back on Him. They chose the latter. The story may have been intended to be taken metaphorically, but the message is still the same: we are still suffering for turning our back on God.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4645 times:

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 12):
It is the afterlife that most concerns him.

Please, enlighten us as to how you can speak for what God is most concerned about. Use logic or reason much?

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 17):
we are still suffering for turning our back on God.

Maybe we suffer because it's our general nature to act in our own interest? Just a thought...



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3825 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 12):
We're still paying for the sins of Adam and Eve. God gave us a chance to live in a utopia, and we (humanity) ruined it. Now none are without sin, and all will eventually pay for it. God for the most part leaves us to create and suffer from our own mistakes.

For an almighty being, God is an underachiever as a designer, especially after making us in his own image.

...wonder if he designed the Trent 900 as well. Hmm   

[Edited 2010-11-10 10:20:34]


Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlinembmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Is Ralph Nader, Al Gore, Bono, Bonnie Raitt and Goldman Sachs more capable...

Since Nader, Gore, Bono, etc. are actual living people as opposed to mythological beings, I'd say they have more of a chance of success than God.

But I hear what you're saying. It's arrogant of humans to think they can save the planet just as it is arrogant of humans to think they have the wisdom and power to exert dominion over the earth.

On the other hand, I don't suppose it hurts to attempt to reverse the trend, and by doing so, have a shot at mitigating some of the terrible effects of climate change. I'm also sick and tired of us behaving like pigs at the trough. How about ending pollution and depleting natural resources because it's just so greedy and piggish? And it makes the earth ugly. And it poisons humans and the rest of the animal kingdom.

Do we really need a better reason than that?


User currently offlineUNCRDU From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 195 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):
Please, enlighten us as to how you can speak for what God is most concerned about. Use logic or reason much?

Feel free to criticize my beliefs. After all, I am just a Christian. I'm pretty much the only person you're allowed to criticize nowadays. I'm not even very religious either, I haven't been to church in years and I haven't read the Bible in some time, but my faith is still important to me.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):

Maybe we suffer because it's our general nature to act in our own interest? Just a thought...

Sure.


User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3592 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

Quoting UNCRDU (Reply 17):
The story may have been intended to be taken metaphorically, but the message is still the same: we are still suffering for turning our back on God.

Who decides how far the metaphor goes? Was Adam and Eve also part of the metaphor or just the apple stuff?

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 18):
it's our general nature to act in our own interest

Same thing, God made us this way.


User currently offlineUNCRDU From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 195 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4627 times:

Quoting lewis (Reply 22):

Who decides how far the metaphor goes? Was Adam and Eve also part of the metaphor or just the apple stuff?

Depends on what you want to believe. I'm certainly not going to tell you how to think.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4614 times:

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):

"........he dismissed the dangers of climate change and the warnings of the scientific community by quoting the Bible."


       

Quoting photopilot (Thread starter):
What to you think?

I can't believe voters get these type of idiots in congress. Politics and religion should never mix. NEVER.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 6):


Science once said the Earth was flat. They once said the Earth was the center of the universe and everything in the sky rotated around us. They said the north and soulth ice packs are melting, but in the past two years they have actually grown.

God will do what God wants to do, and nothing any scientist can do will ever change that.

You've got to be kidding me. Last time I checked RELIGION was what said we were the center of the universe, and that the earth was flat.


25 Mir : It's not the only factor for sure, but the idea that we can do whatever we want in terms of emissions and it makes no difference at all is pure fanta
26 avent : Whatever. I as an athiest would click my fingers to heal the sick child if I had the power; your god supposedly has the power, but refuses to do so.
27 lewis : With all the diseases around the world, I guess God planned for many of us to be dead by now. Science, through medicine, has helped many of us stay a
28 Aaron747 : No, I generally leave religious people alone - unless they want to exert undue influence on the law or purport to speak for God - both of which are j
29 avent : Truly an admirable sense of Justice there - blame the kids for the sins of the parents.
30 photopilot : WOW, what a novel concept. I'll go out and rob a bank and YOU can pay for it. That's basically what you're saying. That we have NO FREE CHOICE, becau
31 Post contains images lewis : Yes but my theory provides the fastest and most thought-free explanation, doesn't it?
32 Post contains links einsteinboricua : Honestly, I can't believe the kind of people Americans elect to office/Congress. Maybe the Rep. should read this: religion is like your private parts,
33 UNCRDU : Cool, respect my religion and I'll respect your lack of one. Mmmmmkay? There's no moral high horse for you here. It says I have faith but I'm not ove
34 Aaron747 : Umm OK, but what does that have to do with an idiot politician who wants to make policy based on pie-in-the-sky hopes for what God will deliver?
35 UNCRDU : I don't know; that's not what I was responding to. My original post was responding to avent's attack on my religion.
36 777236ER : He has a point. God has flooded the earth once, he can do it again. The earth recovered from His event, it can recover again. I think it's shocking th
37 avent : But you are the one claiming there is some moral aspect at work through characterizing our suffering as being a consequence of Adam and Eve's poor ju
38 NWAdeicer : I thought god only helped professional sports players. During their post game interviews most of them thanks god or point to the sky after every home
39 UNCRDU : That's not my argument at all though. The kids in the fire weren't even an afterthought in the beginning; they aren't to blame for Adam and Eve's ini
40 MSPNWA : Finally someone is using their mind right. Here's two scenarios. 1. God is in control, will protect us and the earth, and so there's nothing to worry
41 DocLightning : No. The CHURCH said that the Earth was flat and the center of the universe. And they forced Galileo to recant his position to the contrary. But even
42 avent : Either way, it would be poor comfort to the parents to be told their children's death was the price of free-will, which, incidently, the Bystander ex
43 lewis : Good point! I can see why Option 1 and the whole package it comes with is more preferable to the masses. It is supposed to protect US as well in the
44 avent : I don't buy this either; we'd throw a parent in jail if they let their kids play with razor blades with a mindset they had free-will and needed to so
45 Post contains images san747 : Boohoo. You're a member of the most populous faith in the most religiously tolerant country in the world. How cruelly you are mistreated. No one is c
46 TWFirst : In other news, Zorkon the supreme omnipotent ruler of the 3rd level of Terrastria (of which earth resides of course), has decreed that Chevy Suburban
47 Post contains images KPDX : Fixed.
48 Post contains images einsteinboricua : And MY freedom of speech allows me to disagree AND criticize what he thinks. Shame there's not a higher than respected user list. If there was one, y
49 DocLightning : Has it occurred to you that the "corrective process" might be the collapse of human civilization?
50 Post contains images racko : 97% of scientists agree on the basics, and the dissenting voices are people like Fred Singer who worked for the tobacco industry trying to debunk the
51 Yellowstone : It's not about protecting the earth. It's about keeping the earth in a state that is compatible with human civilization. Life as a whole can adapt to
52 Superfly : Agreed. Mother Nature is much strong than we give her credit for. Just look at the hurricanes, volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, floods, blizzards, ts
53 Longhornmaniac : What do any of those have to do with AGW, Larry? Cheers, Cameron
54 Post contains images Superfly : Australian Gastroenterology Week (AGW) ?
55 Post contains images comorin : Yes there is! It's called a 'God' List.
56 mbmbos : Those who feel that way should clean up their act before they point the finger at somebody else.
57 Post contains images photopilot : Well, I guess the USA doesn't really have to worry about that problem. Those pesky Republicans are just going to pray their way out of their mess. No
58 Superfly : How about going after the biggest polluter first?
59 Post contains links and images AustrianZRH : The long term trend seems to be pretty obvious, there's no use in going to short-term variations when looking at the climate. Arctic: Global: Even th
60 mbmbos : We can't always change the other guy but we can change ourselves. And we can stop being hypocrites.
61 Post contains images Superfly : Who's being a hypocrite? I think you missed my point. You can make all the sacrifices you want in the US it wont make a dimes worth a difference when
62 DeltaMD90 : That's what I'm saying. I believe science was created by God (obviously) so why not use science? Science isn't incompatible with religion but somehow
63 mbmbos : Oh I get your point. You're right that we can't solve the problem without global participation. But I don't agree with the attitude that we can sh*t
64 Post contains links NoUFO : God never saved us from the tragedy of the commons.
65 DocLightning : My question for Mr. Shimkus is this: "If God is going to save us from this, are you willing to give up on national security and let Him take care of t
66 Post contains images n229nw : 1.) So if we launch 100s of nuclear missiles it is arrogant to suggest that it may destroy human life as we know it? You are right, I guess we aren't
67 Superfly : I don't agree with that attitude either. At least the US doesn't sh*t in rivers like a particular polluting country that get's a free pass from envio
68 Longhornmaniac : I'd argue they don't at all get a free pass from environmentalists. We aren't in a position to say they can't industrialize, and that process takes t
69 Superfly : ...but they do. Have you read the Kroto treaty? Nor are we in the position to change Mother Nature's natural cycle. ..but they wont. What is with all
70 Post contains images TheCommodore : The guy need to seek medical treatment, in a mental asylum ! Amazing that these people are elected officials. God help us all
71 einsteinboricua : It can do SO much more than that. What's wrong with planting more forests? With moving away from fossil fuels as one of the main energy sources? Does
72 Post contains images CPH-R : Oh the irony...
73 Post contains links and images Superfly : So can you at least acknowledge the restrictions our government has placed on it's self? Of the restrictions I pointed out, do you believe that is a
74 falstaff : Last Sunday's Detroit Free Press reported homes in Detroit selling at auction for $50. A man at my church bought a housing lot in Detroit for $1. A b
75 NoUFO : Then your thinking is wrong. What you see in those pictures is what you get when you cling to obsolete technics and facilities for too long, not what
76 DocLightning : There is a misconception that good environmental stewardship is incompatible with industry. It is not. However, it is incompatible with RECKLESS indu
77 Superfly : That is because European cities were developed hundreds of years before the automobile was invented. Public right-a-ways that had horse-drawn carriag
78 Yellowstone : That's because no one has suggested that countries need to completely remove themselves from fossil fuels. You're making a strawman argument. If you
79 DocLightning : Except... 82% of Americans live in cities. Then why do "superfund" sites exist?
80 Aaron747 : Sure, if you call Fremont, CA (was going to say San Jose but that's a little harsh), Aurora, IL, Passaic, NJ, or Sandy Springs, GA "cities". Most of
81 Post contains links dxing : I think there is more to the story than this article presents, see below. You don't know what God's plans for those children were/are. No one knows.
82 Longhornmaniac : It's ignorant to think humans can't change the climate, and flies in the face of credible, peer-reviewed science. Cheers, Cameron
83 Post contains images Superfly : ....and who were the idiots protesting against nuclear power in the 1970s? Environmentalist and the same Hollywood movie stars that have hopped on th
84 san747 : AFAIK, city status (vs. town/village/hamlet) is based on population, but maybe what you described would be the case- Needles is in San Bernardino Cou
85 Yellowstone : Are seemingly random deaths all part of God's plan, or did man invent God because he couldn't deal with the fact that death often is random?
86 dxing : When science can explain why the earth heated up and cooled down on its own without man being involved then you might have something there. To believ
87 Aesma : The biggest polluter has been the US for a long time. And that's in relative (per inhabitant) and absolute terms, unlike China which has a far bigger
88 Post contains links Superfly : The whole global warming hysteria is childish. However, there is help. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH8z94e3WQg
89 Post contains links NoUFO : There are many reasons for it with the more densely populated European cities being one, but that's not the main reason. All you need to do is to tak
90 DocLightning : And therein lies the problem. We build our cities wrong.
91 photopilot : Yes, actually is is just total random chance. Sometimes you're just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Well of course you can't make a valid compa
92 Longhornmaniac : Science can and has explained it. Google Milankovitch Cycles to start. Cheers, Cameron
93 NoUFO : Well, it's the same sience that now says the current global climate change is anthropogenic in nature, so do you believe the scientists are right or
94 avent : A statement that reveals a profound lack of scientific understanding, since it betrays an inability to differentiate between effects operating on dif
95 Post contains images Superfly : So I guess you have a legitimate reason to hate the United States. ...and there is evidence to suggest that the whole global warming hysteria is chil
96 parton87 : If a Swedish politician said something like that people would never stop laughing at him. The last time a politician in Sweden talk about God in that
97 Post contains images NoUFO : Just as much as you have a reason to hate Europe and Germany in particular. Look, speaking of childish ... your reasoning is. There could be worse th
98 macc : Satisfied god looked at his creation. Only few details were missing when his mom called for dinner... (macc, pictures from hell, 2008) by the way guys
99 Longhornmaniac : I love my country, and I agree with him. Not really...legitimate, peer reviewed science that doesn't support the theory is few and far between. Cheer
100 Post contains links dxing : Inventing "Gods" and believing in a God are two different things. One requires faith while the other requires only imagination. But they can't explai
101 NoUFO : In case you advert to the medieval warm period, you need to know that the temperature in *some regions* was warmer than today, but not globally. The
102 Post contains links dxing : Nope, I'm talking about before the last ice age. Just one example that I'm sure will be ridiculed by the global warming dogmists. Not because it is i
103 474218 : I suggest you read more about your Milankovitch Cycles. It is not a proven fact but a "Theory". Just like man made (caused) global warming/climate ch
104 avent : Again, you show you do not understand the issue. Global Warming is not perceived as being a threat or related to human activity because it has been g
105 Post contains images Longhornmaniac : I suggest you read more about your scientific terminology, and in general what science tries to achieve. Your statement indicates you have little und
106 dxing : That is not how it is portrayed either in the media or as it is percieved as a threat to humankind. As the simple link shows, there is little that "m
107 Post contains images Superfly : I do? That's news to me. Europe is great but it's far from a utopia that the environmentalist make it out to be. Why are you internalizing other peop
108 Longhornmaniac : Care to elaborate on what you mean? Cheers, Cameron
109 DocLightning : Yeah. I will go right ahead. You asked. The idea that "loving your country" involves allegiance to a deity, in spite of the fact that the country is
110 Post contains images Superfly : Completely not what I was saying. Interesting choice of words there Doc and you back up what I've been speculating all along about the environmentali
111 Post contains images Longhornmaniac : I'm not sure if you're talking about me, or NoUFO, but I'd hardly consider myself a hippie, and I certainly don't take pride in bashing my country. I
112 Aesma : Just like we can't create life (yet), but we certainly can make species disappear (and we started doing that hundreds of millennia ago). We can't gro
113 Post contains images Bruno : ZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I do agree that pollution is a global problem and every country needs to do their part. However, it's a shame that these discus
114 Post contains links windy95 : Hit the nail on the head Superfly Branding of Dissenters Has Begun – Clearing The Path To A Climate Science Pogrom http://notrickszone.com/2010/11/
115 windy95 : But if you look at the ever changing numbers coming out of HadCrut and NASA/GISS you would have a hard time finding some of these periods due to thei
116 Post contains images CPH-R : Those poor, little persecuted climate change deniers (and no, you're not skeptics)
117 Post contains links windy95 : This 2005 UN IPCC scripture was just a bit off...But the dogma continues http://icecap.us/images/uploads/50millionclimaterefugeesby2010.pdf The UN war
118 DocLightning : Huh? Because I think that "Loving your country" doesn't mean you have to drive a 6000 HP six-wheeler pickup to work and kiss your Bible every morning
119 Post contains images Superfly : Don't necessarily need to be a "hippie", perhaps I should have listed more. Hey that is great that you do your part to be an 'ambassador' for the US
120 NoUFO : I don't know if you have a reason to dislike or even hate Europe. As a matter of fact, I for one *do* dislike some parts of Europe. Belarus comes to
121 Longhornmaniac : In an absolute sense, sure, but on a percentage basis, they are very small. I have cited the relevant studies in seemingly EVERY global warming threa
122 Post contains images Superfly : I guess you missed all of my post last month praising your President Angela Merkel. ..and so have many scientist that are pushing this junk science.
123 Post contains images windy95 : That is part of the fundamentalist enviro attack. everyone who does not agree is stupid or does not understand. Actually the list is growing of the s
124 NoUFO : What is so disgusting here if I may ask? The Greens wanted know if tax money is being spent on the support of EIKE, a self-proclaimed "institute" acc
125 NoUFO : Since when is 1/100 more than 1/1?
126 Longhornmaniac : I impugn the sources when its merited. When you post links to blogs (like Anthony Watts, for example) as your sources, you won't have any credibility
127 DocLightning : Because it's true. The data are there. We've shown them to you plain and simple. As to whether you're stupid, I won't comment. As to the fact that yo
128 11Bravo : That just isn't true. There are a tiny handful of "scientist" who disagree with the interpretation of global climate change data, but the overwhelmin
129 DocLightning : Not only scientifically illiterate but they consider science and education to be "elitist" and "liberal." Scientific education about such important s
130 Yellowstone : Wait a minute. A handful of politicians send a letter to the German leadership challenging the credibility of climate change deniers, and that makes
131 DocLightning : It all just reminds me of the anti-vaccine people. "MMR has thimerosol and causes autism!" No, MMR does not and has never had thimerosol. Neither MMR
132 windy95 : I think this covers exhibits B thru Z from the gospel of the global warming alarmist...
133 photopilot : Sure, and I can also find scientists and doctors that will publically state that cigarette smoking does not cause cancer and has absolutely no health
134 TheCommodore : Don't forget the old saying Doc, when you throw enough mud, some of it sticks !!
135 Yellowstone : If you guys keep using the same debunked, unfounded arguments, we're going to keep throwing the same answers back at you.
136 avent : Who cares what the media think. They were gullible enough to believe GWB's lies about WMD so they are hardly noteworthy for their intelligence or rea
137 Post contains images Longhornmaniac : I knew you would say exactly this, almost to the word. OR(!!!) Cheers, Cameron
138 DocLightning : And, much like the other denialists, the fact that there isn't absolute uniform certainty among scientists, with variations in the data suggesting di
139 Post contains images Superfly : You need to read the threads you start. See my post #111. ...or maybe we just don't give a damn enough to post more and more sources. You have your m
140 cws818 : Being asked if you are Muslim is an insult?
141 Post contains links Longhornmaniac : I can't speak for you, but it sure doesn't seem like windy95 has any problem finding "sources." Almost entirely media-driven. Check here, if you're i
142 Yellowstone : Who was the one that implied the Green Party were the new Nazis for daring to write a letter criticizing global warming deniers, a statement so mind-
143 Superfly : Why waste my time when your minds are already made up and all you'll say is that your source is better. I've been coming to this site long enough to
144 DocLightning : Again, where is your degree in science that gives you the authority or knowledge required to critically evaluate scientific evidence? Knowing how to
145 Zentraedi : Is it even possible to have an honest and reasonable discussion on the environment with a conservative? I honestly don't believe it is. I've tried so
146 Longhornmaniac : The thing is, I'm not at all opposed to a good academic discussion of the facts. In fact, I love to have disagreements with people, provided they are
147 Post contains images Superfly : Would you question my creditials if I was on the same bandwagon? Although I agree with you, the global warming alarmist seems to WANT the USA to turn
148 san747 : Yeah, who cares about the people who aren't even born yet, especially when you don't plan to have a kid yourself! I respect you a lot Larry for those
149 Superfly : I was typing when you made your last reply. Not really a deflection but a fact. I see no point in spending a lifetime in constant fear worrying about
150 Yellowstone : You're going to need to cite a source for that. No, because then you'd be agreeing with the experts, and it's their credentials and research that cou
151 Zentraedi : Yeah, that's because we actually have "big government" rules regulating quality and pollution standards. The reality of the matter is that we need to
152 Superfly : The Cap & Trade scheme and the Kyoto treaties would have bankrupted the US. Cost of energy would have skyrocket. That would lead to much, much hi
153 Yellowstone : Really? 'Cause every country in the world signed the Kyoto Treaty except for the US, Somalia, Afghanistan, and a few microstates, and it didn't make
154 dxing : Everyone ought to since they have the power to shape opinion. It is both scientific and a media issue since an unfair hearing given to those that sci
155 Superfly : Countries that wouldn't have to comply with any restrictions signed. it.
156 photopilot : True enough, but I'd like to be able to somewhat control the manner of my passing. Would be nice to die peacefully in bed of old age, hopefully in th
157 Longhornmaniac : And contrary to what you believe, the media has actually given an unfair hearing to the global warming skeptics. How else can you reconcile such a la
158 windy95 : Source?
159 Yellowstone : Really? Because there are 39 so-called Annex I countries (including Australia and New Zealand, Japan, Canada, and pretty much all of Europe) that agr
160 Post contains links and images Fly2HMO : How the US bible thumpers view Jesus Christ:
161 Post contains images Superfly : Don't ya think that is a bit alarmist? It would result in energy prices going up significantly higher than 7%. Who would that hurt the most? Not a ve
162 Longhornmaniac : Again, I have given you the link to the main publications (Doran and Zimmerman 2009) that show that 97% of scientists publishing on climate change su
163 avent : The issue was not that you had made up your mind but that you were impervious to reason. Your links show no such thing. And their author ( Monte Hieb
164 Post contains links dxing : Standard dogma reply using dogma rule number one. When doubt it cast, instantly deny and vigorously impugn the author of any doubt. As to you asserti
165 windy95 : Yes we all know man has an influence on the climate. That is not the argument. UHI's, particulates, deforestation, methane and Co2 will all have an e
166 Post contains links and images windy95 : Is the Western Climate Establishment Corrupt? The public might not understand the science, but they do understand cheating...Dr. David Evans http://jo
167 avent : Well let me add to it then since I'm already guilty; this response reveals further you have no clue about the scientific process when you think criti
168 windy95 : Because it is not The only way to get any significant rate of change is to cook the books and graphs. But to answer your question there has been no s
169 avent : The scientific community is deceiving us, and glaciers are not shrinking. And how do you know this? You got the information from the scientific commu
170 Post contains images DocLightning :
171 avent : Reynolds Wrap? You're telling us it's Reynolds wrap that's behind U.S. rampant dementia? I never knew, but it kind of makes sense...
172 Post contains links windy95 : I will trust mathmaticians when it comes to stats. Even Einstein gave much of his work to a Mathmatician (including his wife) to check his work. Cher
173 dxing : What is shows is your lack of willingness to produce even one single link to disprove what I have backed up. The world is getting hotter, but it woul
174 avent : A totally non-responsive answer.
175 Post contains links windy95 : More on the lies and disinformation when it comes to the "unprecedented" temp rise. Global Warming Loses Public Interest and Scientific Confidence Rea
176 avent : And yet glaciers disappear at an alarming rate...
177 srbmod : At this point, this thread has turned into the typical petty back and forth that this topic tends to have which does not contribute anything construct
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