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Bad Journalism: Obama India Trip Cost Lies  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8292 posts, RR: 26
Posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2757 times:

OK, so here's a good example of where the ideologue bleating heads on TV need to man up and admit they've been duped or plain stupid in their rush to judge before checking facts - and worse, how all of this unverified crap pollutes political discourse in this country and gets people talking about the wrong stuff when there are bigger fish to fry.

When widely followed public figures feel free to say anything, without any fact-checking, we have a problem. It becomes impossible for a democracy to think intelligently about big issues — deficit reduction, health care, taxes, energy/climate — let alone act on them. Facts, opinions and fabrications just blend together. But the carnival barkers that so dominate our public debate today are not going away — and neither is the Internet. All you can hope is that more people will do what Cooper did — so when the next crazy lie races around the world, people’s first instinct will be to doubt it, not repeat it.

Couldn't agree more Tom!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/17/op...n.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21873 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
OK, so here's a good example of where the ideologue bleating heads on TV need to man up and admit they've been duped or plain stupid in their rush to judge before checking facts

If they're going to claim they were duped by a story with one unnamed source, they'd be admitting that they are just plain stupid. So I wouldn't try it. And yes, they do owe the public a retraction of all the crap that got stirred up.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4795 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2692 times:

I disagree completely with the title of your thread and the article. This wasn't a case of Bad Journalism. It was a case of a piss poor representative not fact checking and spouting off lies on public TV. The conservative talking heads of Limbaugh and Beck aren't legitimate Reporters, as they have a Conservative Agenda, so it was in their interest to repeat something that Michele Bachmann said. Cooper who was the only responsible journalist involvedin this story and actually fact checked.


Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8292 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2676 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
This wasn't a case of Bad Journalism.

Sure it was - the blog outlets, commentators, pundits and everyone else who used the story as a bully pulpit were guilty of spreading misinformation that was never verified.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
It was a case of a piss poor representative not fact checking and spouting off lies on public TV.

Agreed there - I don't expect Michele Bachmann to be truthful as a matter of course.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 2):
The conservative talking heads of Limbaugh and Beck aren't legitimate Reporters

Even so, absent the ideological viewpoints they represent, some modicum of appropriate use of facts would at least be the responsible thing to do.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21873 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2672 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 3):
Even so, absent the ideological viewpoints they represent, some modicum of appropriate use of facts would at least be the responsible thing to do.

   There's a difference between pushing one side of the story and putting down the other and just throwing stuff out there when it hasn't been verified in order to make an agenda. Just because someone is a commentator and not a reporter doesn't give them carte blanche to not fact check their material.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

I think journalists should be licensed. Produce crap like that and you get suspended or booted out of the profession. Lawyers, Doctors, Accountants, for example, are bound by professional ethics. Why not journalists...

User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

How much did the ten day (10) trip actually cost?

The reason wild figures like $200,000,000 a day are used is because when the actual cost is asked the question is dismissed or side stepped.

No matter what the trip cost it was an utter with nothing accomplished, except for a lot of people getting a nice all expenses paid vacation.


User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2652 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
The reason wild figures like $200,000,000 a day are used is because when the actual cost is asked the question is dismissed or side stepped.

Not at all true. One could provide reasonable estimates instead of choosing to embrace stupidity. Numbers like the above are very revealing of the toxic dementia that permeates rightwing politics.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8292 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2629 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
The reason wild figures like $200,000,000 a day are used is because when the actual cost is asked the question is dismissed or side stepped.

Accurate figure reporting would allow certain groups to make educated guesses as to the extent of security personnel and deployment. At least you admit the figures are crazy wild. The estimate was provided by the White House though - somewhere in the neighborhood of $5 - $6 million a day.

It seems most likely that the Indian press was reporting the cost in Rupees and that's where the 200 million possibly came from.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
No matter what the trip cost it was an utter with nothing accomplished, except for a lot of people getting a nice all expenses paid vacation.

Thanks for the ideologue flag waving. If you had respect for the office itself, it would be a bit easier to understand why the chief executive makes such trips - regardless of who it is.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21873 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

Quoting 474218 (Reply 6):
The reason wild figures like $200,000,000 a day are used is because when the actual cost is asked the question is dismissed or side stepped.

And there's good reason for that.

But you don't have to get a concrete number to know that the idea of 30+ warships being sent to India to support a presidential visit is completely ridiculous. And that should be a clue that other parts of the story might have gaping holes as well.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2587 times:

Quoting avent (Reply 7):
Numbers like the above are very revealing of the toxic dementia that permeates rightwing politics.

As revealing as the United States losing 500 million jobs a month if we didn't immediately pass the stimulus bill! I forget who said that. People make verbal gaffs all the time. Nothing to see here, move along.


User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
As revealing as the United States losing 500 million jobs a month if we didn't immediately pass the stimulus bill! I forget who said that. People make verbal gaffs all the time.

Never heard that one - goes to show the rightwing bias of the mainstream media I suppose.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8292 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2574 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
People make verbal gaffs all the time. Nothing to see here, move along.

Um, when something is repeated in multiple media outlets by multiple personalities, it's a bit more than a gaffe. Criticizing a person based on made up information is just stupidity. You know - kind of like Charlie Rangel claiming his ethics hearing was unfair because he chose to walk out.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

Quoting avent (Reply 12):
Never heard that one - goes to show the rightwing bias of the mainstream media I suppose.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52WLdiqojOs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8hMJVXt09E&feature=related

Not one of those reporters in that room called her on that figure.


And then of course there was Wolf Blitzer taking the Speaker at her word there would be no pork barrel spending in the stimulus bill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaDtkG6afBc&feature=related

Of course we know how that turned out.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29025047/


User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 13):
Um, when something is repeated in multiple media outlets by multiple personalities, it's a bit more than a gaffe.

As I've shown, it happens all the time. Molehill, mountain.


User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 13):
Quoting avent (Reply 12):
Never heard that one - goes to show the rightwing bias of the mainstream media I suppose.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52WLdiqojOs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8hMJVXt09E&feature=related

Not one of those reporters in that room called her on that figure.

And they should have. But I didn't see that '500M job loss' nonsense pushed and played repeatedly in the media the way the $200M cost for Obama's trip was pushed.

And youtube is not the mainstream media.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7980 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

This kinda reminds me of the whole "forged Bush military papers" dilemma a few years ago


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8292 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 13):
Not one of those reporters in that room called her on that figure.

I'd have simply asked her "um, Madame Speaker, the latest Census was around 300 million - unless there are more illegals than anyone is letting on, are you misstating the facts??"



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

Quoting avent (Reply 15):
And they should have. But I didn't see that '500M job loss' nonsense pushed and played repeatedly in the media the way the $200M cost for Obama's trip was pushed.

Considering you said:

Quoting avent (Reply 11):
Never heard that one

I'm not surprised. But at the time it was played up as much as Rep. Bachmans comment was.

Quoting avent (Reply 15):
And youtube is not the mainstream media.

Youtube is a medium. If you had bothered to watch them they are videos of the Speaker making the comments on both CNN and CSPAN. You would be hard pressed to defend either of them as not being "mainstream" media.

Even more desparing is that the CNN report is a "taped" version of her saying it and the reporter in the shot doesn't even bring up the fact that 500 million is an obvious misstatement.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 17):
I'd have simply asked her "um, Madame Speaker, the latest Census was around 300 million - unless there are more illegals than anyone is letting on, are you misstating the facts??"

You know a little math goes a long way here. If you take the 200 million figure and change the currency to Rupee's that works out to a rounded 4.3 million in U.S. dollars which I'm quite comfortable that the Indian portion of the trip cost given all the support that went along. Per day is another misstatement but since the White House won't release the true figure we'll just never know.

But as I stated, everyone makes these kinds of mistakes at one time or another. You laugh at them and move one.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8292 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 18):
If you take the 200 million figure and change the currency to Rupee's that works out to a rounded 4.3 million in U.S. dollars which I'm quite comfortable that the Indian portion of the trip cost given all the support that went along.

Yep, just what I said in reply 8   

Quoting dxing (Reply 18):
But as I stated, everyone makes these kinds of mistakes at one time or another

Yep, but as I stated, a little responsibility taken by those talking heads everyone listens to would go a long way toward restoring some truth to discourse.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 18):
Youtube is a medium. If you had bothered to watch them they are videos of the Speaker making the comments on both CNN and CSPAN. You would be hard pressed to defend either of them as not being "mainstream" media.

Even more desparing is that the CNN report is a "taped" version of her saying it and the reporter in the shot doesn't even bring up the fact that 500 million is an obvious misstatement.

Indeed, but did CNN or CSPAN talking heads run with the issue and embrace it the way rightwingers embraced and went hysterical over the cost of Obama's trip? Did CNN or MSNBC make it a focal point to push their agenda and defend it?


User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4881 posts, RR: 37
Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting avent (Reply 5):
I think journalists should be licensed. Produce crap like that and you get suspended or booted out of the profession. Lawyers, Doctors, Accountants, for example, are bound by professional ethics. Why not journalists...

Exactly. And that includes conservative (and other sides) talking heads on radio and television. Make them report truthfully and actually provide substance to their wild claims.

Maybe then USA politics will move back from the wild-west style it currently has where anything goes.

Now, the lady who spouted this cost message on the CNN show, if I were moderating, I'd have asked her back to explain her costings in detail. It's the only reasonable and right thing to do.

[Edited 2010-11-17 15:32:21]

User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11805 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2383 times:

I have a question for the people upset with Obama over the cost of this trip: How much exactly per day did the government (that would be you and I through taxes) spend on Bush and his hand-holding with the Saudi royal family and Bush clearing brush on his ranch in Texas and Bush at fundraisers which only benefited his own party, not the American people at large? Keep in mind that, while in Crawford, he had to have a unit ready at a moment's notice to fly anywhere in the world which means security detail, jet fuel, auto fuel, catering, etc. Yet none of these same people said one word abou that wasteful spending...


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2346 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 19):
Yep, just what I said in reply 8

Yeah, I missed that.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 19):
Yep, but as I stated, a little responsibility taken by those talking heads everyone listens to would go a long way toward restoring some truth to discourse.

That could be said of any professional in any career field on any given day.

Quoting avent (Reply 20):
Indeed, but did CNN or CSPAN talking heads run with the issue and embrace it the way rightwingers embraced and went hysterical over the cost of Obama's trip? Did CNN or MSNBC make it a focal point to push their agenda and defend it?

Don't know, don't watch or listen to them on a daily basis. Does not change the fact that you attributed the reporting to

Quoting avent (Reply 7):
Numbers like the above are very revealing of the toxic dementia that permeates rightwing politics.

whereas I have shown that it is not only "righwing" media that reports factual errors and in some cases ignores blatantly factual errors since the population of the United States isn't even 500 million people to begin with.


User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 23):
Quoting avent (Reply 20):
Indeed, but did CNN or CSPAN talking heads run with the issue and embrace it the way rightwingers embraced and went hysterical over the cost of Obama's trip? Did CNN or MSNBC make it a focal point to push their agenda and defend it?

Don't know, don't watch or listen to them on a daily basis. Does not change the fact that you attributed the reporting to

Quoting avent (Reply 7):
Numbers like the above are very revealing of the toxic dementia that permeates rightwing politics.

whereas I have shown that it is not only "righwing" media that reports factual errors and in some cases ignores blatantly factual errors since the population of the United States isn't even 500 million people to begin with.

Of course it changes the 'fact' if rightwingers deliberately made an issue out of the ridiculous $200M/day cost. CNN and MSNBC did not launch a tirade defending the stimulus because '500M per month would lose their jobs.'         


25 cpd : The following simple questions may be answered with Yes or No: 1. Do you think there should be truth in reporting/journalism, even when it goes again
26 dxing : That they "didn't" point out her obvious gaff, even when the CNN report was using tape of her saying it is just as damning as the people you are rail
27 avent : Not at all. There is a world of difference between not pointing out an obvious gaffe, and malevolently propagating disinformation to stir up the boob
28 Aaron747 : Sure, but that's still no excuse for when they willingly put misinformation on the air. A moderate host from the SF Bay Area I listen to regularly pu
29 Post contains images EA772LR : Ethics don't exist in journalism and haven't for a while. But I agree, mandating ethics in journalism would be nice. And to top it off, while the Ame
30 CargoLex : The flashy headline makes it seem as if they did not want to extend the benefits They don't want to extend the benefits, and have repeatedly tried to
31 dxing : Then as I said, CNN and CSPAN are just as guilty. It happens to everyone sooner or later. As a radio talk show host I caught myself making gaffes inv
32 avent : It's the hysterical promotion of the absurd number that's at the heart of the issue, not the making of gaffes. You're just pulling one of your incess
33 Aaron747 : Perhaps so but the individual I'm quoting is a several time major market of the year Marconi award winner, including this year's. He's as fair as the
34 CargoLex : I know they are not being accurate since there is simply no way to go on the air for 35 years and not make some gaffes you didn't catch. From someone
35 dxing : Don't doubt it. I don't doubt my statement that over his 35 years he has made misstatements. I'm also sure that he has had to go back and correct him
36 avent : No it wasn't, and this is yet another clumsy attempt on your part to change the issue. To say one is making a molehill out of a mountain implies ther
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