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Report: Who Assassinated Lebanon's Rafik Hariri?  
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2033 posts, RR: 6
Posted (3 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1860 times:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/1...-rfa-macdonald-lebanon-hariri.html

Even though my overall opinion of the CBC is quite low, this report is probably the best piece of Western journalism I've seen in 10 years. A controversial story about the UN snow job on the investigation of the assassination of Prime Minister Rafik Hariri in 2005. Not only does is seem that the UN was negligent, the commission was also being paid off by parties in Lebanon.


No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineronglimeng From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1774 times:

I watched the relevent section of "The National" on CBC last night, and I was listening to teasers about the story all weekend as the CBC crowed about their scoop.

I suppose it is a big story but I think the CBC was just the recipient of documents passed to them by disgruntled UN investigators, and the CBC didn't do much investigative journalism by themselves. They just packaged it and presented it?

What I get out of this is mostly that the UN is a spent force in the world.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2033 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1748 times:

Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 1):
I suppose it is a big story but I think the CBC was just the recipient of documents passed to them by disgruntled UN investigators, and the CBC didn't do much investigative journalism by themselves. They just packaged it and presented it?

Yeah, I guess that's how it usually goes. Apparently both the UN and Lebanon are pissed off at the CBC for exposing everything to the public. The UN is even looking at legal options.

Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 1):
What I get out of this is mostly that the UN is a spent force in the world.

A corrupt and dangerous one at that. They would have sooner laid the blame on Israel than point fingers at Hezbollah.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12328 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

Everyone knows it's Syria; the only reason that the Lebanese govt (led by Hariri's own son!) is saying anything else (or not saying anything at all), is that Hezbollah has threatened to regard any dissent from its line (Syria absolutely didn't do it) as an act of collaboration, with fatal results.

User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1730 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Everyone knows it's Syria; the only reason that the Lebanese govt (led by Hariri's own son!) is saying anything else (or not saying anything at all), is that Hezbollah has threatened to regard any dissent from its line (Syria absolutely didn't do it) as an act of collaboration, with fatal results.

I'd say. Hezbollah might actually depose the existing government in Lebanon if it went down this road, or cause yet another civil war.

As for the UN being a spent force, I'd offer the following:
- it is a bloated structure;
- there is almost certainly a lot of corruption and cronyism;
- many originally viewed it as a template for some type of supra-national government, it is not, and the Big Four (now Big Five/Six/Seven, whatever, will not let it be a government);
- it is still relevant in terms of several of its' functional agencies like WHO, UNESCO, IAEA etc
- HQ should move from NYC to Geneva (where many agencies are already located);
- the need for reform is drastic, achieving it would require almost a miracle;
(i.e., shouldn't there be some type of economic/population/size threshold for full membership ?
Why does Vanuatu get a seat just like the USA or China? How about considering a regional
seat ? Vanuatu/Fiji/Tonga and some others get one seat and rotate ambassadors)

Just an idea.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinen229nw From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1916 posts, RR: 32
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1702 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 4):
Why does Vanuatu get a seat just like the USA or China?

More to the point, why does Michael Jordan get his own seat just because he is famous? (That's what Ali G asked...)



It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26520 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1689 times:

Quoting TheCol (Thread starter):
Even though my overall opinion of the CBC is quite low, this report is probably the best piece of Western journalism I've seen in 10 years

Have to agree it was an amazing piece to watch. Im heading to Lebanon this week for an extended stay. I have been obviously watching these events closely. I had considered postponing my trip but have decided to go ahead. Hopefully if an indictment is made while I am there it will not be worst case scenario. Things in Lebanon can go from calm to serious violence in a matter of hours.

Such a shame as Lebanon is a wonderful country but many nations have their finger in the pie Syria/Israel/Iran and of course groups such as Hezbollah.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1646 times:

Quoting n229nw (Reply 5):
More to the point, why does Michael Jordan get his own seat just because he is famous? (That's what Ali G asked...)

If Ali G said it, it must be true. Very cool that MJ is now in the UN. Maybe he can be on (or actually BE) the Security Council soon. Or, the GA designates MJ as a UN trustee for Lebanon, with a remit of cleaning up the mess. Who knows, Lebanon might get an NBA franchise.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1638 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 4):
many originally viewed it as a template for some type of supra-national government, it is not, and the Big Four (now Big Five/Six/Seven, whatever, will not let it be a government);


Some may have regarded it as such, but the founders made sure that it could never be democratic as it conferred veto powers on some.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 4):
shouldn't there be some type of economic/population/size threshold for full membership ?


That could be interesting. Australia might get half a seat while India gets twenty and China gets fifty and the US gets 10. Somehow I think the US would veto that one and who could blame them?

I think that the UN was doomed to failure, in terms of establishing a universal just peace, because the superpowers have always indicated that they are not willing to abide by resolutions that they didn't approve of (hence their veto). So we have Iraq being invaded for apparently not abiding by UN resolutions, but Israel gets rewarded with extra F35s for doing exactly the same. Don't get me wrong, I am not supporting one against the other: merely stating the obvious. The UN can not be successful because no-one sees its resolutions as binding unless they see them as advancing their own narrow interests. Against that background it is not surprising that votes go to the highest bidder. What is seen in National Parliaments is reflected in the UN.
I think Lord Acton had it wrong. It isn't power that corrupts, but the pretense of power where none really exists.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1550 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 4):
Hezbollah might actually depose the existing government in Lebanon if it

No, they might not, as they are just the smaller of the two Shi'ite parties, which means that their leadership is just about 10 to 14% of the people. They have their zones of influence just as the other groups and parties have theirs. They CAN cause trouble, but they have no chance to "depose" the government


User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3241 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1544 times:
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Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
No, they might not


I hate to disagree with you,but this is not about zones or areas of influence. When you have an army stronger an better armed than the country regular army you do have the brute power to overthrow the government



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlinematthew11 From Canada, joined May 2009, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

Looks like UN are going to name indictments on Dec 2.

http://www.yalibnan.com/2010/11/26/s...-issue-indictment-on-dec-2-report/



Matt from YYC
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1426 times:

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 10):
When you have an army stronger an better armed than the country regular army you do have the brute power to overthrow the government

General Michel Sulaiman, now State President, has shown that "his" army is far stronger than the Hizbullah militia when he pushed them out of West Beirut when they tried to move into this vital downtown area of Beirut. The government army is in fact a conglomerate of all the other militias of civil-war-Lebanon and is quite heavily armed. That Michel Sulaiman is ready to use "brute power" has been shown when he terminated the resistance of that fundamentalist Palestinian group up in Tripoli, and I am perfectly sure that he in his present function as State President AND C-i-C of the Armed Forces would crush any organisation trying to topple the government. And you can be sure that Hizbullah would have done it long ago, had they had the chance to do so. The government army in the past few years got new weaponry from France and some other sources, including new tanks and new artillery guns. That the Lebanese now have as State President a general who has shown his military abilities in cases of heavy crisis of course is a good thing.


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26520 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1401 times:

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 12):

I hope you are right. No one here knows what will happen. At the moment everything is normal here, I hope it stays like that. Whatever happens I hope the Lebanese Forces stay strong and crush any trouble makers.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1360 times:

Quoting oa260 (Reply 13):
No one here knows what will happen

-
Right, neither do I, as my crystal ball does not cope !

Quoting oa260 (Reply 13):
I hope the Lebanese Forces stay strong and crush any trouble makers.

-
strong and UNITED ! The most serious danger for Lebanon is neither Hizbullah nor Syria nor Israel but the danger that the Lebanese armed forces might break up into half a dozen feuding militias. Messrs Sulaiman and Hariri know this quite well and act accordingly in a very careful way. In fact, also the Hizbullah chaps know it, and therefore, as I hope, will abstain from doing to much nonsense. The last elections in which they were heavily beaten by Amal (nick-name: Hizbullah with Red Wine ) will also serve them as a warning, actually an unexpected warning.


User currently offlineoa260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26520 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1317 times:

Looks like the judgement will not rule until new year now.


AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
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