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Obama's True Religion  
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3720 times:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68I1ND20100919

Quote:
The Obama family never joined a church in Washington. Obama has said it would be too disruptive to the congregation. The White House says he regularly attends services at a chapel at Camp David when spends weekends at the presidential retreat in Maryland.

So basically, Obama is a lapsed Christian, like so many others in this country. Like the majority of people. He says he's a Christian because it sounds but in reality, he goes to church when it pleases him and probably only believes in the most abstract sense of God.

He doesn't care about taking his daughters to church and making it a regular ritual for him. I think that says a lot about it.

This is something I really hate about American politics. He feels a need to keep invoking his Christian faith because people seem to care. This idea that the President has to be religious is so contrary to the express wording of the Constitution that it enrages me, especially when I hear the so-called "strict constitutionalist" Tea Partiers bring it up.

The Constitution (Art. VI) says:

Quote:
no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Period. End of story, finito. Religion not matter. So why do so many people who claim to "love America" seem to care?

117 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3705 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Period. End of story, finito. Religion not matter. So why do so many people who claim to "love America" seem to care?

Well for one the voting public seems to care and the nut jobs on the right seem to care even more. Could you imagine the field day fox news would have if a presidential candidate from the left were to enter the scene. Not to mention the fact that the said presidential candidate will not get any votes from the south.

As far as Obama is concerned, the guy is Christian to be in office, I believe he is actually a wardrobe agnostic.



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3683 times:

If Obama is a Christian or not is up to him and nobody else. Sadly, despite the Constitutional position, politicians will resort to almost anything to smear their opponents and to some being un-Christian is as bad as being un-American.

Yet, I do not think that non-attendance in a Church is proof of not being Christian. His point about being disruptive to a local congregation has some validity when I recall that Kevin Rudd, while Prime Minister of Australia, got into the habit of being televised coming out of church on Sundays.

I don't know whether Obama is a Christian or not. I am not but I do recall the bit in the Bible where JC says,"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the Synagogues, and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward." He continues, "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly."

So perhaps Obama does his reflection in private or with his family. Who knows? Who cares?


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3675 times:

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 1):

Well for one the voting public seems to care and the nut jobs on the right seem to care even more.

Which scares the hell out of me. How the most un-American, those who hate what this country is actually supposed to be and are in love with some homogenized fantasy of it seem to have co-opted the Flag as their banner.


User currently offlineflyerboy1990 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3675 times:

Just because he doesn't publicly go to church doesn't mean he isn't Christian. However, I'm sure there are many politicians who say they are religious to gain office. I want to think that he is sincere in his spirituality. And I'm not so sure we can really judge him for it. That's up to God.


Flown in: 712, 722, 73G, 738, 752, DC10, CR2, CR9, A319, A320 Want to fly in: A330, 767, 777, MD80, E170 series
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3658 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Period. End of story, finito. Religion not matter. So why do so many people who claim to "love America" seem to care?

Simply put, religion serves as an important underpinning of ones beliefs especially regarding ever important social and moral issues.

Electing someone that does not espouse similar ethical and social beliefs is simply something many could not do.

So yes, at the end of the day, ones religious association and convictions do matter immensely at the ballot box.

For Obama specifically, I'd say end the charade. We have seen that religion does not matter to him, or at least only matters in a political sense and not practical personal relationship for him and his family. I'm sure many who were lulled in the believing the man was more religious than he turned out to be will be casting votes the other way come 2-years from now. I have an African American Baptist colleague and this topic even apparently came up in his church to disgust of many parishioners.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4264 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3628 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
For Obama specifically, I'd say end the charade. We have seen that religion does not matter to him, or at least only matters in a political sense and not practical personal relationship for him and his family.

Bush II, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, and Nixon paid lip service to the Bible and then acted against its teachings. Are you going to condemn them as well? They were putting on a face for the cameras to get elected -- they were religious for political reasons. Just like McCain. Religion has nothing to do with how well a person governs or how moral and ethical they are.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3619 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
I'm sure many who were lulled in the believing the man was more religious than he turned out to be will be casting votes the other way come 2-years from now.

It's incredibly unfortunate that in this day and age, some people are more willing to base their vote on a candidate's religious conviction than on their platform or record.

Quoting texan (Reply 6):
Bush II, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, and Nixon paid lip service to the Bible and then acted against its teachings. Are you going to condemn them as well? They were putting on a face for the cameras to get elected -- they were religious for political reasons. Just like McCain. Religion has nothing to do with how well a person governs or how moral and ethical they are.

Very well stated. Agree 1000%.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3602 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Period. End of story, finito. Religion not matter. So why do so many people who claim to "love America" seem to care?

But you're the one raising the issue...


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3565 times:

Quoting avent (Reply 8):

But you're the one raising the issue...

I wish I was.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13046 posts, RR: 78
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
So why do so many people who claim to "love America" seem to care?

Because they want to turn the US into a Christian version of Iran.

Also, many of them probably regard the passing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act as a day of infamy almost on a par with Pearl Harbour.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12881 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

President Obama has a long and complex life history as to his faith beliefs. His father was an inactive Muslim. He mother was probably as an adult, an inactive Christian. As he became a part of the Chicago community, and to help him succeed in politics, he chose to be with a Christian faith church, run by what turned out to be a controversial preacher who he had to renounce. What has happened is that with the obsession of the political news media as to a politian's faith, Obama is in a difficult fix. As noted, he is reluctant to go to a particular church regularly due to the disruption from security and media attention it would cause to the congregation and perhaps looking too favorable toward a certain group of society. If he goes to a 'Black' church, he will be bashed by whites. Go to a 'White' church, then Blacks will be disappointed with them. Who needs the hassles.

Deeper, I just think he has a very private faith belief, he doesn't have to be public about it and feels comfortable about it. That is more like 60% of Americans who don't regularly go to religious services so actually he has a position of the majority of America.


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2690 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 10):
Because they want to turn the US into a Christian version of Iran.

Also, many of them probably regard the passing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act as a day of infamy almost on a par with Pearl Harbour.

Do you have any idea as to what you are talking about?



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

President Obama has proven to be a confused individual on both fronts...he entertains Muslim prayer events in the White house while at the same time goes to Church. He embraces the "call to prayer" as the "most beautiful sound on earth". (if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it sure isn't a parrot!) Either way, it really doesn't matter. What matters is his, has his ethical/moral base moved the American population forward/backward and if it is the latter...what are the motivating factors? Skin color?...so what...if he is the man for the job?, so be it...if he is not then out with him. How can a confused and divided leader, really be an effective leader?

User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 13):
He embraces the "call to prayer" as the "most beautiful sound on earth". (if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it sure isn't a parrot!)


I have heard some beautiful renditions of "Ave Maria". I have been moved to tears by pieces of music where I don't even speak the language. Does that make me a duck or a parrot?

As to holding prayer sessions for people of different backgrounds, is that a problem. Shouldn't the POTUS be seeking to unify citizens regardless of their personal religious beliefs?

As you say, at the end of the day what matters is how he improves the position of the US and its people.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
If he goes to a 'Black' church, he will be bashed by whites. Go to a 'White' church, then Blacks will be disappointed with them. Who needs the hassles.

  
I have to call B.S. on that.
The Church Obama attended in Chicago is not a typical Black Church. I know plenty of Christians that do not like attending political or activist Churches. Obama's Church and led by Rev. Wright is a very political and activist Church. There are plenty of Black elected officials that attend multi-ethnic Churches.
Growing up, our family attended a multi-ethnic Catholic Church and never recall getting flack from other Blacks.
Not sure where you're getting this information from.

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 13):
Either way, it really doesn't matter.

The fact that he tries to hide his religious beliefs is what concerns me. That combined with his close associations with Islam makes this issue a very legitimate concern.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 6):

Bush II, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, and Nixon paid lip service to the Bible and then acted against its teachings. Are you going to condemn them as well? They were putting on a face for the cameras to get elected -- they were religious for political reasons. Just like McCain. Religion has nothing to do with how well a person governs or how moral and ethical they are.

AFAIK, Carter is a pretty religious guy. Ford, on the other hand, was probably along that line.

Quoting GDB (Reply 10):

Also, many of them probably regard the passing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act as a day of infamy almost on a par with Pearl Harbour.
Quoting windy95 (Reply 12):

Do you have any idea as to what you are talking about?

Of course he does. Rand Paul certainly thinks that.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):

Growing up, our family attended a multi-ethnic Catholic Church and never recall getting flack from other Blacks.

Catholic Churches tend to be multi-ethnic, largely based on the neighborhood the parish is in. It is Protestant churches that tend to segregate.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):

The fact that he tries to hide his religious beliefs is what concerns me. That combined with his close associations with Islam makes this issue a very legitimate concern.

Really? Really? He takes religion out of it and it "concerns" you? Quite frankly, I think a Moslem would get elected before an Atheist or even Agnostic in this country, so I think the President's privacy is well founded.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3303 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Catholic Churches tend to be multi-ethnic, largely based on the neighborhood the parish is in. It is Protestant churches that tend to segregate.

True. I just had to correct a comment by ltbewr.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Carter is a pretty religious guy.

Very true. He was not paying any "lip service" to Christians. He practiced it and was active in his Church.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Really? Really? He takes religion out of it and it "concerns" you?

Considering his upbringing, yes it does.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3334 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3303 times:

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 1):
As far as Obama is concerned, the guy is Christian to be in office, I believe he is actually a wardrobe agnostic.

I have heard Bill Maher and Christopher Hitchens say repeated times that they suspect and hope that is truth about him and his advisors tell him to hide the fact he is not religous.

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 1):
Well for one the voting public seems to care and the nut jobs on the right seem to care even more. Could you imagine the field day fox news would have if a presidential candidate from the left were to enter the scene. Not to mention the fact that the said presidential candidate will not get any votes from the south.

The non-religious right, who really run the show in the GOP but this might be changing due to the tea party uses the religious right almost everytime in an election to get social conservatives to vote against their economic interests, look at the 2004 election as an example. It's political genius



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2690 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3275 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Quoting GDB (Reply 10):

Also, many of them probably regard the passing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act as a day of infamy almost on a par with Pearl Harbour.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 12):

Do you have any idea as to what you are talking about?

Of course he does. Rand Paul certainly thinks that.

And no Rand Paul does not think that.

And to equate many in the Republican party to a long ago quote from a racist shows that GDB does not know what he is talking about.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineavent From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3247 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 13):
President Obama has proven to be a confused individual on both fronts...he entertains Muslim prayer events in the White house while at the same time goes to Church.

That's your confusion, not Obama's. What you attribute to Obama is really tolerance and reaching out.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 6):
Are you going to condemn them as well?

No I wont especially Bush or Reagan. Matter of fact several of the Presidents listed such as Reagan were deeply devoted to their religions and were central themes in their lives.
And no I don't call acts like going to war and resultant killing people going against religion as those are regular acts of State.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 7):
It's incredibly unfortunate that in this day and age, some people are more willing to base their vote on a candidate's religious conviction than on their platform or record.

Why unfortunate? Religious convictions and ones stance are simply another piece of qualifications to be weighed by the electorate.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13046 posts, RR: 78
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3200 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 12):
Do you have any idea as to what you are talking about?

Probably a damn sight more than those who cannot tell the difference between North and South Korea - for the second time in two years, who think Steven Hawking would have been long dead had he been under the British Health System, who think FDR created the Great Depression (presumably also thinking that WW2 started in 1945) and much much more, not even worthy of a search to remind of such inanities.


User currently offlinefridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1441 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3189 times:
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I always thought Obama's religion was himself!!!   


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User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3154 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 12):
Do you have any idea as to what you are talking about?

Much more than you probably care to admit.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 14):
I have heard some beautiful renditions of "Ave Maria". I have been moved to tears by pieces of music where I don't even speak the language. Does that make me a duck or a parrot?

Exactly. I've heard some beautiful prayers, and I attended a Catholic funeral where they sang some beautiful hymns, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to go out and convert.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Of course he does. Rand Paul certainly thinks that.

  

Quoting windy95 (Reply 19):
And no Rand Paul does not think that.

Really? So we all just imagined the remarks he made?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
Why unfortunate? Religious convictions and ones stance are simply another piece of qualifications to be weighed by the electorate.

Because I don't believe that religion has any place in a secular society.

Quoting GDB (Reply 22):
Probably a damn sight more than those who cannot tell the difference between North and South Korea - for the second time in two years, who think Steven Hawking would have been long dead had he been under the British Health System, who think FDR created the Great Depression (presumably also thinking that WW2 started in 1945) and much much more, not even worthy of a search to remind of such inanities.

  



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
25 windy95 : Still nothing to back these claims up with? Unless you have a way of proving that "many" of them probably do then you still do not know what you are
26 LAXintl : Like it or not, we are a religious people and religion serves as the underpinning of how we define much in life and society. As such its natural reli
27 windy95 : And always has been.
28 OA412 : People in this country may be religious, but our government is supposed to be secular in nature. As such, I do not believe that religion should play
29 Superfly : You are correct. However, I don't think Obama is as secular as he is letting us on to believe. If he is truly secular, he seems to have an affinity o
30 soon7x7 : Don't know...hows your "plumage?" Think you too are confused,...the American people have exhibited an incredible tolerance for this ...uh ...leader?
31 Post contains images Quokka : A bit ruffled at the moment and some of it is falling out. While some people are obviously worried by suspicions that Obama may be a closet Muslim, a
32 Post contains images Superfly : For obvious reasons. But he is not Jewish so the question is moot. Since you brought it up, IF Obama were Jewish, he wouldn't feel a need to hide it.
33 CargoLex : Bush II, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, and Nixon Clinton and Reagan may not have been big on Religion in the true-believer, but Carter and Bush 43 very muc
34 Superfly : Never said he was but as I said before, he has an affinity for that religion/political ideology. It concerns me a lot because I voted for him and he
35 Post contains images OA412 : Ah yes, the infamous Playboy interview. Indeed. It saddens me to no end that some people are so willing to believe anything reported about President
36 Post contains links LAXintl : Well people are the religion, and since politics is the people also, its only normal for them to be intertwined. You simply cannot separate or turnof
37 Superfly : Don't let other people's ignorance "sadden" you. While I still want to believe that Obama is not a Muslim, his actions as well as what is defined by
38 CargoLex : Sad I don't really care what people think, but it is sad that so many Americans are taken in by this stuff. Sad for the rest of us because these peopl
39 Superfly : No doubt, they'd find something else to pick on him about. Not comparing Obama to W Bush. By the way, Dubya was the worst President ever. Lot's of in
40 gosimeon : Don't see what the debate is here. He has stated his Christian faith and attended a Christian church long before he was elected to office. I also don'
41 CargoLex : Does it matter? He is very comfortable around them. Personally I think his associations are too close for comfort. If you're going to make claims like
42 Post contains links N1120A : That is an unequivocally bigoted position, especially considering his upbringing. Yes he does, and you know it. Then again, he already changed his st
43 Superfly : Islam is much different than Judaism and Catholicism but of course some like to pretend that they're 'all the same'. I just brought up one of the man
44 N1120A : Its not "much different." They are all the same hocus pocus, except that Judaism leaves out half the garbage about the afterlife but quadruples the i
45 Post contains images Superfly : Yep, that's it.
46 Post contains images OA412 : Yes, yes, that's what I meant.
47 KiwiRob : Just wondering here, I always thought to be a Black American you had to be a decendant of slaves, so can Obama really be considered Black American? T
48 Post contains images L410Turbolet : Just because he's no muslim apologist, as most of other lefties for some unknown reason choose to be, disqualifies him from being one?
49 racko : The USA are a very religious country, so of course they'll only vote for someone who they perceive as Christian. If you actually believe that stuff fr
50 Post contains images windy95 : Way to take things out of context as usual. We are not talking about customers but the owners of the business and whom they can or want to hire. Ther
51 777way : His Grandma just performed Hajj and prayed there for him to become Muslim.
52 Post contains images soon7x7 : While it is hard to ignore all the religious rantings and accusations that he is not an American citizen...( I have no way of knowing if he is or isn
53 Superfly : Thanks L410Turbolet but it's apparently becoming that way. The left is acting more and more like the Tea Party people. If you don't agree with them 1
54 Scorpio : How is that different from calling anyone who doesn't jump on the 'Muslims are Evil' bandwagon an apologist or a pansy? Like what? What's he done tha
55 Post contains links N1120A : Sorry, but bigotry doesn't sell. Well, I guess it does, but not to me. Title VII is not about quotas. Stop making stuff up. Has nothing to do with ag
56 GDB : I don't have to prove a thing, Mr Paul's own comments damn him, as do others, it is the logic of their argument. As for the other, religious zealots f
57 Post contains images OA412 : Is that the only qualification one needs to be labeled a "leftie" these days? I realize that given some of the very bigoted stances you take vis-a-vi
58 N1120A : This is exactly what he, and Mr. Paul, are saying.
59 OA412 : Exactly. But neither of them is willing to just come right out and admit it. Instead, they dance around the issue.[Edited 2010-11-29 13:01:20]
60 AGM100 : He is Mau Mau revolutionary ... come on everyone knows that.. He is whatever religion Rev Wright is .... whats the questions? . Its a religion of taki
61 DocLightning : Do they? Because I can find Baptists and Muslims who will agree on every social issue and two Baptists who will disagree on every social issue. I car
62 Zentraedi : One curious question I like to pose to some on the left is "Would you care if Obama were a scientologist?" So far, haven't come across any who would b
63 777way : Not necessarily, if Quran says no compulsion in religion it means you can drop out if you think its not for you, its a sin though.
64 LAXintl : Nothing wrong with people putting their money, and voices to support belief they might hold regardless if its the same view an organized religion mig
65 DocLightning : I would argue that they sunder those very same foundations. In fact, in any situation in which religion has been allowed significant policy-making po
66 N1120A : It is funny how politicians often forget about the Treaty of Tripoli. Perhaps ol' Mumar ought to rub it in our face one of these days? Total agreement
67 Yellowstone : Religion does not enshrine basic beliefs, religion reflects basic beliefs. Evolution has hardwired into us certain rules for functioning in society -
68 LAXintl : And I would say, you cannot call it democracy without people being able to incorporate or pursue their desires and beliefs from the spiritual arena.
69 OA412 : I do have a problem with it when the church hierarchy is the one rallying the troops and pumping untold sums into anti-whatever proposition/law ads.
70 DocLightning : I did not say that religion must be squashed. I said that it must not make public policy decisions. There is a big gulf between Communist Russia and
71 LAXintl : Sorry but cant see anything wrong with a Church pumping up parishioners than any other civic or community group doing the same. Why muzzle religion t
72 Post contains images Superfly : Hell yes it bothers me. At the moment we're talking about Islam because this thread is about President Obama's religion which many have doubts. As I'
73 Scorpio : Please stop playing the victim card. People are taking issue with what you've said because you are still in doubt about whether Obama's a Muslim or n
74 seb146 : Don't limit your question to just the left. Look at Mitt Romney and how much flack he caught for being Mormon. Many commentators both right AND left
75 GDB : Well apart from the obvious, in that if you think the Creationists 'Earth is a few thousand years old, Man lived with Dinosaurs' - the latter accordi
76 DocLightning : I would care if he were ANY sort of religious extremist where I was afraid that he would allow dogma to color his policy judgements. Certain religion
77 AGM100 : So .. Nancy Pelosi openly asking Priests and Pastors to " Preach it from the pulpit" ( referring to Health care legislation) ... Is that what you mea
78 Yellowstone : Religion is not a base for anything. Every useful moral guideline provided by the church is obvious to any reasonable person (religious or not); ever
79 N1120A : 1) I thought you were of the belief that organized religion is a bad thing? 2) "Element?" Again, shows your clear prejudice. Every religion creates e
80 Post contains images Superfly : So? Let me have my doubts. No reason to become unglued and emotional about it. The evidence is only flimsy in your eyes because you don't want to bel
81 Post contains images OA412 : I can. We have separation of Church and State in this country. As such, Churches should not be inserting themselves into the political sphere in orde
82 Post contains images Superfly : Yet 1/5th of the US population thinks he is. I'm pretty sure he is not. I've already indicated that above but it seems like the thread has turned in
83 N1120A : Not to mention keeping tax free status. 1/2 of those who voted in 2000 and 2004 voted for George Bush. People are stupid.
84 Scorpio : And almost half don't believe in evolution. Because many people believe whatever they want to believe, facts be damned. The fact 1/5th of the US thin
85 HKA098 : I agree but at what cost? Bin Laden wanted the U.S. to attack Afghanistan and get mired in the quagmire that is war in that country. U.S. leaders obv
86 Scorpio : I agree, but I don't see what your first sentence has to do with that, as what you're summing up are not examples of trying to get moderates on our s
87 HKA098 : Sorry for the confusion. It would seem that because of the current state in U.S. foreign policy, the moderates do not want to cooperate with U.S. eff
88 windy95 : We do? Nothing in the Constitution keeps religion out of government. We have? Source. You are using the "we" again way to much. You need to say "I" m
89 N1120A : Hence the term "separation of church and state." The government of the United States cannot respect the establishment of religion and can't prevent r
90 AGM100 : Be aware ...this is the key argument that will be used by progressives to eventually do what they want. The President has essentially said this exact
91 N1120A : Well, actually, people are stupid and bigoted. They are stupid if they think Obama is a Moslem and they are bigots if that makes them believe he shou
92 Post contains images san747 : I've learned more about people, ethics and life being a rabid fan of San Diego sports (the Padres/Chargers) than when I actively attended church in m
93 AGM100 : How so ? The conservative ideals are to let people control there own lives and income ...to get big nanny out of the way and forge your own path. Doe
94 CargoLex : The conservative ideals are to let people control there own lives and income ...to get big nanny out of the way and forge your own path. Unless you're
95 Aphonic : That's a whopper. Don't see how any of what you stated above requires bigger government. Quite the contrary, conservative ideals are beneficial for a
96 CargoLex : conservative ideals are beneficial for all, including gays, atheists and the human beings the left want to abort. So plans to criminalize abortion des
97 DocLightning : Um... how is removing my children and anulling my marriage beneficial to me?
98 Post contains links Aphonic : Who's going to remove your children? FYI, I have nothing against Gay Marriage. What has Obama done for gay marriage since he's been in office, enjoyi
99 CargoLex : FYI, I have nothing against Gay Marriage. Maybe not, but if you stand with the Republican Party, you stand with them on these issues as well. Who you
100 Aphonic : Sorry you're so angry and feel disenfranchised. But it appears the left is far worse than your hated conservatives re. equality since they did nothin
101 Post contains images Superfly : And then there are those that think that Muslims had nothing to do with 9/11. Hey don't shoot me, I'm just relaying a message. You're acting as if I
102 CargoLex : Sorry you're so angry and feel disenfranchised. But it appears the left is far worse than your hated conservatives re. equality since they did nothing
103 Superfly : Well aware of that. Just pointing out something that Obama has done that will help gay rights iin the future. There is nothing Obama can do about tho
104 Yellowstone : How many Americans have Muslim terrorists killed in the US in the past decade? A few thousand? Smoking kills a hundred times that number every year,
105 Superfly : Why do you and a few others keep saying I'm "afraid" of Muslims? That is silly. I'm not afraid of them. On several occasions I've been called "Islama
106 san747 : What are you wow-ing me for? Do you seriously believe you are in ANY danger from terrorism at this moment? Exactly, and that few thousand number incl
107 Superfly : So? Doesn't mean I run inside my house screaming if I see a Muslim. Geeez! I am entitled to my opinion and if you don't like my attitude towards this
108 soon7x7 : True...but the ancillary nonsense we must deal with everwhere we go on a daily basis because of the ...as you put it "a few thousand" American deaths
109 Scorpio : ..and they should be given about the same credence as those who say Obama's a Muslim, i.e. none. Because their 'evidence' is in about the same catego
110 Superfly : Oh yes you did. . . . .
111 AGM100 : Super ... unfortunately it is like that . How do we (fiscons) compromise with a party who simply wants to spend on entitlements and empower the fed.
112 Scorpio : Um, no. Please practice your reading comprehension skills. I at no single point spoke of either appeasement or of or of any such appeasement (which I
113 Post contains images Superfly : That's all fine & dandy until your fellow conservatives try to restrict freedoms of gays and woman's reproductive rights. Many jobs have been cre
114 GDB : Yes Yes Yes! That scattered bunch of Islamic fanatics are not Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan or the USSR. Terrorism means what it says, try to change a
115 Post contains images AGM100 : Your right ... and the left knows that as well. These are serious serious wedge issue that are like snakes in the garden ... So we will never have fi
116 Scorpio : Where have I put words in your mouth?
117 bjorn14 : People don't know half the story about him hanging out with Nation of Islam thugs. He even bought a house a block and a half from NOI mosque. Well he
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