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Swiss Say 'yes' To Expulsion Of Foreign Criminals  
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7244 posts, RR: 5
Posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

"GENEVA - Swiss voters have approved a plan to automatically deport foreigners who commit serious crimes or benefit fraud, in a significant victory for the nationalist party that pushed the proposal against the will of the Government.

Almost 53 per cent of voters backed the proposal put forward by the nationalist Swiss People's Party. The plan was opposed by 47.1 per cent of voters.

A Government-backed counter-proposal failed. It would have required case-by-case review by a judge before an individual was deported.

The Government will now have to draft a law requiring automatic expulsion of foreigners found guilty of crimes such as murder, rape, drug dealing or benefit fraud.

"The majority of voters have sent a clear signal that they consider foreign criminality to be a serious problem," Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga said.

Under Switzerland's unique political system, any group wanting to change the law can collect 100,000 signatures to force a referendum."

Rest of the article here. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/democracy/...cle.cfm?c_id=171&objectid=10690907

Good stuff Switzerland, good to see someone has the balls to deal with this issue, now Norway and NZ you could both do well to enact similar laws.

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21552 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

I'd be very much in favor of a similar thing in the US as long as the case-by-case review was maintained for those who have been granted permanent residence, and as long as the definition of a serious crime was strictly defined (since we know there can be creep in that sort of thing).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2295 times:
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Good. If only my country had the guts to do so.

Reminds me of the scumbag who killed headmaster Phillip Lawrence in London. Viciously stabbed to death a family man for no reason whatsoever, served a poxy sentence and then couldn't possibly be deported to Italy as it would be a violation of his human rights. WTF????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Philip_Lawrence

Guess what? He has recently been arrested for robbing people. Quelle surprise.

We have enough homegrown criminals to deal with, yet even murderers of foreign nationality are allowed to stay here. Hopeless.

Way to go, Switzerland.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2288 times:
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This actually sparked a quite heated debate in Switzerland. Those who were in favor of the law were called racists. What people didn't get is that we're actually talking about criminals here: it's not a law about foreigners, it's a law about foreign *criminals*.

We already have a very mild legal system here (you really, really have to be a bad guy to make it all the way to jail), and judges tend to apply the conditional clause to more and more prison sentences. So if someone is actually being sent to jail for 24 months or more, he's probably not someone you would want to keep in any country, ever. He's probably either a repeated rapist or a murderer.



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7244 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2282 times:

Here in Norway we have a major league terrorist Mullar Krekar who the govt would love to send back to Iraq but due to bleeding heart liberals and pc wankers plus stupid laws they can't send him back until the Iraqis confirm they won't execute him, they guy is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people so why the hell Norway should give a hoot, I don't know.

Norway's prision population is mostly foreign born, it costs the taxpayer to keep them when an airline ticket back to where they come from would be a lot cheaper.

[Edited 2010-12-01 12:46:11]

User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2249 times:

This would get a yes vote in almost any country in the world, if a referendum like this was possible. Really a surprise that the majority was not much clearer.

I wish we had the same in Germany.


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2827 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2176 times:

Bring it on.

I hope one day Australia will have the guts to do the same thing.

One strike and your out, back to wherever it was that you came from.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineswissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2160 times:

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 3):
This actually sparked a quite heated debate in Switzerland. Those who were in favor of the law were called racists.

Yep... still do not understand these people calling us "Racist" wtf... they are criminals in a foreign country... end of it, out and minimize the $$$ liability towards the good citizens/tax payers...

Do I ever love the direct democracy... never mind "democracy" only 

Cheerios,


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2156 times:
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Quoting swissy (Reply 7):
Do I ever love the direct democracy... never mind "democracy" only

The Swiss style of direct democracy is the only thing in the world close to true democracy.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8824 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2149 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
I'd be very much in favor of a similar thing in the US as long as the case-by-case review was maintained for those who have been granted permanent residence, and as long as the definition of a serious crime was strictly defined (since we know there can be creep in that sort of thing).

I disagree. If you are a legal resident of a country, but not a citizen, you are a guest, and as a guest you are expected to behave yourself - perhaps even more than those who live there - i.e. are citizens.

And I say that as someone who has lived in a dozen different countries without being a citizen. I always felt that I was, in a way, an ambassador of my country and must not do anything to embarrass it.

If you are an illegal resident, then you are nothing more than a trespasser, and should be booted out automatically.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2141 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
I disagree. If you are a legal resident of a country, but not a citizen, you are a guest, and as a guest you are expected to behave yourself - perhaps even more than those who live there - i.e. are citizens.

   Damn right. Reminds me of the way the UK took back longterm residents of the UK from Guantanamo as well as UK nationals. Whatever one might think of that particular camp, and I was no fan, people who have demonstrable links to terrorism should not be welcome in our damn country and we our IDIOTS for not sending them back to the countries of which they are full nationals.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
If you are an illegal resident, then you are nothing more than a trespasser, and should be booted out automatically.

Damn right.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13072 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2135 times:

Will the Swiss include foreign nationals who work for the banks there helping foreign nationals evade taxes, move dirty (drug, terrorism, dictators, criminals) money?

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2130 times:
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Quoting ltbewr (Reply 11):
Will the Swiss include foreign nationals who work for the banks there helping foreign nationals evade taxes, move dirty (drug, terrorism, dictators, criminals) money?

Obviously if they were convicted of offences under Swiss law then yes. If they were simply doing things that you don't like but it was within the law of that country and they committed no offence then no, obviously not. But then you probably knew that.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2122 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 6):
I hope one day Australia will have the guts to do the same thing.


Hi Commodore,
Under present laws the Commonwealth may deport people who are not citizens if they have been convicted of serious criminal offences (See the Migration Act, 1958). Remember the poms getting their knickers in a twist when we deported a child rapist? They didn't want him either, despite him being a British citizen.

The general proviso is that non-citizens who are permanent residents may be deported if at the time of the offence they have lived in Australia for less than ten years or in aggregate less than ten years. In some instances, migrants who have acquired citizenship may be stripped of it.


User currently offlineAeroflot001 From Argentina, joined Oct 2009, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Im not sure if I understand the law, the way I see it, if someone comes to my country and murders someone and is then caught in the country, well shouldnt that person be tried in my country and given the proper punishment or am I off key here?

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2101 times:
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Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 14):
Im not sure if I understand the law, the way I see it, if someone comes to my country and murders someone and is then caught in the country, well shouldnt that person be tried in my country and given the proper punishment or am I off key here?

I think you're misunderstanding the situation. Expulsion from the country would normally come after conviction and punishment.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 14):
well shouldnt that person be tried in my country and given the proper punishment

I am not sure how it works in Switzerland, but in Australia, deportation would follow after any custodial sentence had been completed. So, for example, an offender might be tried, convicted and sentenced to ten years imprisonment. The Minister resonsible for Immigration may then order his deportation after the sentence has been completed.


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 8871 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2096 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 10):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
I disagree. If you are a legal resident of a country, but not a citizen, you are a guest, and as a guest you are expected to behave yourself - perhaps even more than those who live there - i.e. are citizens.

Damn right. Reminds me of the way the UK took back longterm residents of the UK from Guantanamo as well as UK nationals. Whatever one might think of that particular camp, and I was no fan, people who have demonstrable links to terrorism should not be welcome in our damn country and we our IDIOTS for not sending them back to the countries of which they are full nationals.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
If you are an illegal resident, then you are nothing more than a trespasser, and should be booted out automatically.

Damn right.

I certainly go along with those opinions, and give them a "damn right" also.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21552 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
If you are a legal resident of a country, but not a citizen, you are a guest

I draw a distinction between temporary guests (those with student visas, work visas, etc.) and those who have been judged qualified to get a permanent residence card. They should still be deportable, no question about that, but more care should be taken in the process.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2827 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Quoting Quokka (Reply 13):
The general proviso is that non-citizens who are permanent residents may be deported if at the time of the offence they have lived in Australia for less than ten years or in aggregate less than ten years. In some instances, migrants who have acquired citizenship may be stripped of it.

Hi Quokka,

Thanks for that detailed explanation.

I didn't have any idea about the 10 year rule.

What do they say. You learn something new everyday !!

Cheers.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineAeroflot001 From Argentina, joined Oct 2009, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2063 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 15):
Expulsion from the country would normally come after conviction and punishment.
Quoting Quokka (Reply 16):
The Minister resonsible for Immigration may then order his deportation after the sentence has been completed.

Oh well thankyou for clearing that up and sure that seems very fair, what happened with criminals beforehand?


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2047 times:
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Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 20):
what happened with criminals beforehand?

In many cases they would, on completion of any punishment, be free to resume their lives in the country they were living in. That, in the case of many, would often men returning to a life of crime - precisely the thing that would be avoided by expelling them from the country.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

Quoting Aeroflot001 (Reply 20):
what happened with criminals beforehand?


In Australia, prior to the passing of the Migration Act, 1958 the responsible Minister could order deportations of people who he decided "were of of such character as to warrant their not remaining in Australia". The legislative framework was the various Immigration Act dating from 1901 onwards and the Aliens Deportation Act, 1948.

The Migration Act, 1958 as amended made clearer the grounds for making an order; created a fairer system of review; and drew a distinction between "removal" and "deportation". Removal is applied to those who are unlawfully in Australia - for example those who either have no visa or whose visa has expired or been cancelled. Deportation is applied to those whose presence in Australia is no longer acceptable as a result of having been convicted of serious crime(s). Separate provisions of the Act enable the removal of persons who receive an adverse security assessment.


User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1384 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1986 times:

As a foreigner living in Switzerland, I don't have any problem with this expulsion initiative, although I usually don't think very highly of SVP's political position. Before expulsion, you need to be found guilty in a fair trial. If you live in a foreign country, adhere to their rules, period. And it's not like you're expelled because of going 10 kph over the speed limit on the autobahn.

I only hope this triggers no short-minded response concerning the bilateral treaties with the EU, from both sides... But I don't think it's contrary to EU law. After all, Germany has a similar rule, where anyone sentenced to more than three years MUST be expelled, with drug crimes it's two years. (For Germany, see this German link: http://www.swissinfo.ch/ger/politik_..._in_Deutschland.html?cid=28734810)

[Edited 2010-12-02 01:35:25]


WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13072 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

In the USA, generally if a foreign national, here legally or illegall,y commits and is convicted a significat crime, usually a felony level (1 year or more in jail) or repeted minor crimes, they can be expelled or deported. Usually expulsion will take place upon completion of their jail term, they can be turned over to ICE and in turn deported to their home country. Sometimes there can be problems, such if the person was from Cuba or other countries we do not have full diplomatic relations with or if upon return to their home country, the person could face a long jail term or up to execution (like China) by their home country for political crimes or having left illegally.

25 RussianJet : EEA regulations do provide for deporting and banning EEA nationals in criminal circumstances, the rule normally being that the sentence is at least t
26 Post contains images swissy : Agree, sure it is no perfect system neither... but I take it over any other system, it leaves allot of "freedom" to the citizens and not to the polit
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