Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
WikiLeaks Reveals U.S. List Of 'critical' Sites  
User currently offlinefuturepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3167 times:

"WikiLeaks publishes list of worldwide infrastructure 'critical' to security of U.S."
Still think they don't pose a threat to national security? What is the gain of releasing information like this? I thought this website was a whistle blowing website? Now of course in their defense, some of the places on this list is a no brainer when it comes to security risk, but really, what are they gaining by releasing this info? Not only are there lists of targets in the US, but throughout the world.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40526224/ns/us_news-security/

Quote:
"There are strong and valid reasons information is classified, including critical infrastructure and key resources that are vital to the national and economic security of any country," Crowley told The Times.

Basically, they're doing Al Qaeda's work for them. Releasing statistical documents about how many afghans civilians have been killed by the U.S. in drone strikes etc. Releasing videos of numerous questionable attacks (even though i'm not opposed to this). Our enemies can easily log on to Wikileaks.org and use it as a training tool for recruitment to kill Americans, and millions of Americans sees this so called whistle-blowing site as the greatest thing since sliced bread!


"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHKA098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3128 times:

For secret information, this was pretty widely-distributed...

Quote from the MSNBC story.

"Kristinn Hrafnsson, a WikiLeaks spokesman, told The Times that the list had been made available to 2.5 million people including military personnel and private contractors by the U.S. government, saying this was a "very wide distribution for information claimed to be of such high sensitivity."

Is this something that wasn't already known? Possibly. Wikileaks' list does not detail locations, or the specific vulnerabilities of the sites themselves. U.S. infrastructure will be much more secure when their SCADA systems stop running Windows NT and have restricted access to the Internet.

Quote from the MSNBC story.

"In the short run, we're almost out of business," said a senior U.S. diplomat who spoke on condition of anonymity. "It is really, really bad. I cannot exaggerate it. In all honesty, nobody wants to talk to us."

I wonder why...


User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1402 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3055 times:

The list which I just read on the wikileaks website this morning is so small and only states the obvious locations which every 18 year old guy with an internet connection and some knowledge of politics and crime could compose.


Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlineronglimeng From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3038 times:

I first learned of this part of the WikiLeaks story this morning when I checked a Toronto Star newspaper story on Canadian locations that were "critical" to US interests. I have to agree with Severnaya above, that unless you have no clue, these lists aren't that helpful.

One of the Star contributors "scaleworker", suggests that Canadians need a corresponding list of critical American locations...Clearwater Beach, Florida, being #1 in his opinion.


User currently offlinejanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3006 times:

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Basically, they're doing Al Qaeda's work for them. Releasing statistical documents about how many afghans civilians have been killed by the U.S. in drone strikes

I feel stupid, I believed that releasing documents about the number of civilians killed in Afghanistan by drone strikes was a favour of the truth.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 2):
The list which I just read on the wikileaks website this morning is so small and only states the obvious locations which every 18 year old guy with an internet connection and some knowledge of politics and crime could compose.
Quoting Severnaya (Reply 2):
I first learned of this part of the WikiLeaks story this morning when I checked a Toronto Star newspaper story on Canadian locations that were "critical" to US interests. I have to agree with Severnaya above, that unless you have no clue, these lists aren't that helpful.

   It's good to know that where I work is considered "crucial to US interests". I'm all warm and fuzzy now.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineHKA098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

If these diplomats were this candid on the record, I would love to hear them off of the record!

I imagine the government would have to make a list such as this and apply a classification to each site. The first step organizing data is to break it down into different classes.


User currently offlinefca767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1745 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2909 times:

In the UK we have our own Secret Bases website, if it's like what they say it's already public knowledge but this website is very interesting, it's ok, the owner goes to the governments D-Notice to ask if it's ok
http://www.secret-bases.co.uk/secret.htm


User currently offlineqantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5853 posts, RR: 40
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2909 times:

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Basically, they're doing Al Qaeda's work for them.

most ignorant post in this thread...as if AQ doesn't know this info already.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2719 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2800 times:

Quoting futurepilot16 (Thread starter):
Basically, they're doing Al Qaeda's work for them

You have to be kidding. This is one dumb statement. Anyone with internet access can figure this list out.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinedeltaownsall From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2783 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
In the end, this raises some important lessons that the U.S. needs to learn: if you keep your nose clean, then there are fewer boogers to run down your face and embarrass you.

Has the U.S. screwed up, in any number of instances, leading to tragic results? Absolutely.

The crux of the debate, perhaps, lies a bit deeper though. Some people like to deny that the United States has carried a burden of special responsibility over the past ~65 years. Some people like to suggest that the United States only grabbed this burden out of pure selfishness, and that the world would have been the same, or even better off, if the US had just minded its own business from WW2 onwards. Both camps are wildly misinterpreting (or deliberately manipulating) history.

Like it or not, the United States is the country that a huge number of governments around the world, not to mention reasonably informed citizens, will readily admit is largely responsible for their continued security. Such a huge responsibility means leading the war against terrorism, which is real and necessary. In a war, horrible mistakes will be made. No state, government, army, human, etc. is perfect. We need to concern ourselves not with expecting the war to be a perfectly bloodless, magical solution against a very dangerous enemy. Instead, we should be focusing on how certain mistakes could have been avoided, and how we can be as efficient as possible in protecting innocent people, no matter which country they are from, while we continue to fight the enemy.

A world without a powerful/engaged United States is not one that most of us would like to see, whether or not we choose to admit it. It is, however, as you indicated, one that JA seems increasingly interested in.


User currently offlinefuturepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2756 times:

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 14):
A world without a powerful/engaged United States is not one that most of us would like to see, whether or not we choose to admit it. It is, however, as you indicated, one that JA seems increasingly interested in.

Apparently, people like AGM100 don't feel this way. Anything we've previously done in the past to wronf someone else clearly should be apologized for. Look, i'm no bandwagon supporter of skeletons that hides in this country's closet. We've done some malicious things to other countries that soe people could not possibly imagine. I despise the fact that our government continues to push our policies onto other countries. If they don't accept, they get bombed.

With that being said, ANYONE, who sees it fit to want to harm me, my family, my friends, or the general American public, are what I consider to be enemies. Take it for what you will. You can make the argument that we did certain people wrong blah blah blah. But the US military invading a country for oil or whatnot has nothing to do with some person working on the 90th floor of the World Trade Center. If they feel that it's ok to respond to us by attacking us, even in such a cowardly way, then they're not victims, they're enemies and should be treated as such, despite that you feel sorry for them.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21552 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2755 times:

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 14):
In a war, horrible mistakes will be made. No state, government, army, human, etc. is perfect. We need to concern ourselves not with expecting the war to be a perfectly bloodless, magical solution against a very dangerous enemy. Instead, we should be focusing on how certain mistakes could have been avoided, and how we can be as efficient as possible in protecting innocent people, no matter which country they are from, while we continue to fight the enemy.

This is correct. However, it cannot happen if we do not know about the mistakes that we make. Some people equate supporting the publicizing of incidents involving the military (and I recognize that Wikileaks has put out other stuff as well, and I'm less comfortable with that) with anti-military sentiment, but that's not always the case.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently onlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1532 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2736 times:

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 4):
What enemies ? Surly your not referring to the misunderstood , oppressed people in the world who we capitalists owe a apology too for being arrogant ? We don't have enemies .... we have people that deserve justice for the evil done to them by the USA. Have you not been paying attention ?

Hey, you know, no one is forcing you to stay in the United States. If its such a bad place, why don't you pack your bags and leave. In fact, if it's that bad, I'm sure we can take up a collection to get you a 1 way ticket to anywhere out of the country, once you give up your citizenship.

Regardless of how much you think the US is the bad guy of the world, why is it that so many people from all over the world seek to move to our country?

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineHKA098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2720 times:

Who said anything about it being bad in the U.S.?

What some are trying to get across is that the U.S. Government has done some rotten things around the World. For whatever reason they were done, usually money, there is no excusing the acts. Now, some of them will be aired in public. Abu Gharib, Civilian deaths in Afghanistan/Iraq, Guantanamo Bay, Extraordinary Rendition, Waterboarding all make Americans look bad in the eyes of the rest of the World. The fear-mongers at DHS and their goons in the TSA are not helping. In fact, they are penalizing the very people they have been tasked with protecting. Private defense contractors and the government lobby are cashing in on the very act which caused the death of three thousand people. The Government has been spending billions on the War on Terror and what is there to show for it? I have a feeling those questions and more will be answered in the Wikileaks cables. That is something, because the U.S. Government is sure not going to tell it's people anything.

Economic promise is why people come to the U.S. That has nothing to do with the crooked stuff the folks in Washington are doing. Though, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the U.S. was involved at some level in the state of many-a-nation's economy. (United Fruit Co. ?)


User currently offlinedeltaownsall From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 16):
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 18):
Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 19):

When I responded to AGM's post earlier, I had assumed that he was being ironic. Maybe I read it wrong, but this was my first impression. I certainly hope this is the case, lol.


User currently offlinedeltaownsall From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2700 times:

Quoting HKA098 (Reply 14):
The Government has been spending billions on the War on Terror and what is there to show for it?

This is precisely the problem with the war on terror. What is the main goal of the war on terror? Preventing future terrorist attacks. Since we can't know for sure might have been in the absence of our efforts, people run around saying that there has been no result.


User currently offlineHKA098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

The title "War on Terror" is too abstract, probably meant to encompass anything it's coiners considered a threat. There will never be an absence of terror, in any form, as long as there are people on this planet. Are we any more free of terror now, than we were almost ten years ago?

User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Quoting deltaownsall (Reply 16):
This is precisely the problem with the war on terror. What is the main goal of the war on terror? Preventing future terrorist attacks. Since we can't know for sure might have been in the absence of our efforts, people run around saying that there has been no result.

The main goal of the GWOT is to make the general public feel that "something is being done" about terror. What in fact is being done is that your liberties are being eroded day by day, and you and we are never going to get them back. What has been achieved is to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to erect even more colossal bureaucracies to watch you.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3978 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2651 times:

Quoting HKA098 (Reply 14):
The Government has been spending billions on the War on Terror and what is there to show for it?

Why don't you ask the people of Portland, Oregon that got together to see the Christmas Tree lighting and lived to tell the tale?



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlinedeltaownsall From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2584 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 18):
What in fact is being done is that your liberties are being eroded day by day, and you and we are never going to get them back. What has been achieved is to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to erect even more colossal bureaucracies to watch you.

And people say we're paranoid about terrorism, lol.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 19):
Why don't you ask the people of Portland, Oregon that got together to see the Christmas Tree lighting and lived to tell the tale?

  

A city that had earlier refused to take part in the FBI's joint terrorism task force, ironically. Kind of a coincidence that Mohamud ended up there, isn't it.


User currently offlineLufthansa411 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 692 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

As had been said before, the sites on that list are pretty straightforward. In Germany for example most of them make important chemicals or power implements. But then there are the bizarre ones like the factory that produces Prussian Blue paint. What if the US isn't able to paint it is going to trigger a war?  


Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
User currently offlineHKA098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 19):
Why don't you ask the people of Portland, Oregon that got together to see the Christmas Tree lighting and lived to tell the tale?

The sting operation where a moronic teenager was lead by the FBI to try and blow-up packages full of sand? Seriously? That kid couldn't organize an egg on toast. Big threat...


User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3978 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

Quoting HKA098 (Reply 22):
The sting operation where a moronic teenager was lead by the FBI to try and blow-up packages full of sand? Seriously? That kid couldn't organize an egg on toast. Big threat...

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. I am sure there was no way he would be able to figure it out, either, or get help from people that would. After all you need an IQ of 200 to be able to blow something up...

It is incredible how people like you try to devalue the work the FBI is doing to keep YOU safe on the name of some political agenda. No wonder there are threads floating around A.net about the U.S. slipping into collapse by 2025. It might be the case, but it has nothing to do with resources, but with The Enemy Within.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineHKA098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 23):
The Enemy Within.

Paranoid much? Maybe this will make you feel better; http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/h...sages-coming-walmart-hotels-malls/

Since when is the FBI's work a sole part of the security apparatus, put in place since 9/11? Did the FBI keep civilian families in Iraq safe from Blackwater thugs running around their country, shooting everything and anything? How many civilians have died from the course of America bringing freedom to Afghanistan and Iraq? Of course it is easy to call the plays from across the pond. Some folks are just really irked that U.S. Government corruption being laid out for the World to see. They are probably even more irked that the genie can never be put back in the bottle.

I don't hate America. Quite to the contrary. I served in it's armed forces and made my sacrifices to keep the nation free. Don't talk to me about what the Government does to keep us free. I want America to live up to the moral high-ground they present to the rest of the World. The U.S. Government is the reason we are in the place we currently find ourselves and I don't want my children to grow-up in a police state.

BTW, Assange is set to present himself to the authorities in London on Tuesday, 12/7

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11937110


25 UNCRDU : Yup, just like 19 men armed only with box cutters were a "big threat" 9 years ago...
26 HKA098 : ...and the FBI was unable to stop them. The Feds were unable to stop the Shoe Bomber, the Underwear Bomber, and a nasty toner cartridge. Your point?
27 UNCRDU : My point is, they were able to stop the guy in Portland before he could become dangerous. And we owe them props for that. I'd wager that there are qu
28 HKA098 : I agree and gave them such in the related thread. Perhaps, but would they have the means? Could they do something effective with that information? Ar
29 deltaownsall : Here we are. Are you of the opinion that U.S./NATO operations in Afghanistan/Pakistan have not disrupted Al Qaeda's means?
30 scbriml : If you really believe this, then you're seriously underestimating Al-Q.
31 HKA098 : Great question! We don't really know. All we can go on is what the media reports. Those reports are filtered and edited by DoD censors. Once in awhil
32 qantas077 : simple answer, look to the poppy fields for your answer, then you can come back and tell us all! your hypocrisy is astounding, how about you spread t
33 Post contains links deltaownsall : Talk about a theory that's hard to quantify. Interestingly, much of the Muslim world has seen decreasing support for suicide bombings since 2001, acc
34 Yellowstone : Prussian Blue is also used as an antidote for certain kinds of heavy metal poisoning.
35 HKA098 : I do agree. Whenever folks start trading shots, there will be others that get hurt. Why war is a bad way to solve any problem. For what it is worth,
36 Pyrex : When the hell was Afghanistan ever about freedom? Afghanistan was about retribution for 9/11, and there is nothing wrong with that (even Obama would
37 qantas077 : I seem to recall 9/11 being about Bin Laden, Afghanistan was just the setting for the war.
38 Pyrex : Correct. Still about retribution. There is no way anyone will ever transform Afghanistan into a place anyone in their right mind would like to live i
39 qantas077 : of course not, too many interests at stake, especially in that small plant that gives millions a high each year! as for the world being more dangerou
40 HKA098 : I recall 'Freedom' being in the name for the operation. One can surmise from that, the two are related. Right now, Afghan problems have everything to
41 Post contains images connies4ever : Actually, the area around Herat is kind of nice, from my recollections. On the other point, Afghanistan IMHO is not really a country but a geographic
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Michigan Tops List Of States.......... posted Tue Jan 9 2007 20:24:06 by Dtwclipper
List Of Car Problems posted Wed Oct 25 2006 13:17:32 by AirbusA346
Let's Make A List Of Good Techno Music posted Fri Apr 14 2006 01:26:36 by Aeroflot777
Telegraph : US Plans For Attack Of Irans's Sites posted Sun Feb 12 2006 14:48:36 by Beaucaire
Stats Of The Last 7 Days - List Of The Bored ;) posted Fri Jan 13 2006 12:07:10 by Gkirk
List Of CIA Planes - List NY Times Mentioned posted Mon Nov 14 2005 20:38:14 by GDoole01
A List Of FEMA's Screw-ups In New Orleans posted Thu Sep 8 2005 08:55:18 by Clickhappy
List Of Top 100 Rudest British Town Names! posted Mon Aug 29 2005 18:42:07 by USAFHummer
Full List Of Clint Eastwood Westerns posted Thu Mar 31 2005 22:40:39 by Pe@rson
Car Bestseller List Of Your Country posted Fri Jan 14 2005 16:10:01 by Racko