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Terrorist Acts Against Orthodox Family In Egypt  
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2859 times:

I haven't yet seen any response on here to the despicable bombing of the Coptic church in Alexandria at new year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12101748

21 souls were taken in this appalling act which was clearly intended to inflame tension between Muslims and Christians in Egypt.

Unfortunately it seems to have been successful, with an immediate backlash from our Orthodox brethren, but the most recent demonstrations seem understandable:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12101748

I hope this evil act is not the shape of things to come this new year, and that religious communities may be allowed to live together in peace regardless of their differences.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12106177

To the entire Orthodox family I wish that we can look forward to celebrating 7th January in peace and in the love of Christ, without the distractions of evildoers.

God bless you all.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecharlienorth From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1133 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

Sad to hear about...thoughts and prayers with these folks and their families.

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

Quoting charlienorth (Reply 1):
Sad to hear about...thoughts and prayers with these folks and their families.

Thank you for your kind thoughts. It is indeed sad to hear about such an act at the best of times, but when one such as this is particularly designed to cause strife in a largely peacefully co-existing society of religious beliefs, it seems doubly despicable.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinefuturepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2839 times:

I see the religion of "Peace" strikes again. Certainly sad to see a person can't attend a religious event without having worry about getting blown up.


"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 3):
I see the religion of "Peace" strikes again. Certainly sad to see a person can't attend a religious event without having worry about getting blown up.

That is not really fair. People have been blown up whilst going to work, going shopping, whatever. Perhaps you could clarify exactly what you mean or who your negativity was directed against and why?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinefuturepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2826 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):

That is not really fair. People have been blown up whilst going to work, going shopping, whatever. Perhaps you could clarify exactly what you mean or who your negativity was directed against and why?

I was referring to radicals using the religion of Islam to promote violence.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 5):
I was referring to radicals using the religion of Islam to promote violence.

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification. God bless you for taking the time to think about those killed in this dastardly act.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2801 times:

A despicable act of terrorism that has rightly been condemned by leaders in the Middle East as well as the rest of the world.

The Arab world has condemned the bombing, with both Qatar and Kuwait conveying their condolences to the families of the victims and Egypt. Saudi Arabia said the "criminal act is neither acceptable by Islam nor by global ethics." Shaikh Abdullah Bin Zayed Al Nahyan, Foreign Minister of the UAE rejected "terrorism in all its forms and totally condemns targeting of places of worship."

In Egypt itself, the Muslim Brotherhood has condemned the attack as has Al Azhar, the highest religious authority among Muslims.

Source: http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/go...ds-condolences-to-mubarak-1.739243

Hosni Mubarak may choose to point to outsiders in the interest of "national unity", but unless his government addresses issues like unemployment, education and housing and heeds voices for greater recognition of democratic rights, then the risk of religious divisions widening (and becoming more violent) increases.

There are already fears for Egypt's future as Mubarak, after thirty years in power, is in his eighties and people are asking what is going to happen when he is no longer around.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20200 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2754 times:

Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 3):
I see the religion of "Peace" strikes again.

You're a Christian, yes? Clearly, you support Fred Phelps and his godhatesfags crowd. Your religion is hateful and evil.

Oh, I'm sorry, was that unfair? So's your statement about Islam. So knock it the hell off.

That said, moderate Muslims are standing by mostly silent while these acts occur. I think that most Muslims feel that they are powerless to stop these acts. After all, they wake up, brush their teeth, pray, eat breakfast, take the kids to school, go to work, pick up the kids, etc. Who has the time with all that to start a mass movement against the Islamists?

There will need to be some major public backlash against the Jihadists by moderate Muslims. These people are recruiting kids (it's almost always males 13-25) to do these acts. Where are their parents? Often, they've been duped into sending their kids to a Madrassa thinking that they're going to get a religious education only to learn that their kids have blown themselves up a few months later in a terrorist attack.

I haven't seen the mass outrage from moderate Muslims and we, the rest of the world, are looking to them to take a stand, to launch mass public education campaigns warning parents and kids about the dangers of these schools and their recruiters.

But they haven't. And I am very concerned that if Jihadists keep committing terrorists acts, the rest of the world will get desperate and turn to genocide.


User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2739 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):


Seeing wide-scale and independent movements against Jihadis would be welcome but they would come up against a number of obstacles.

One of the problems in parts of the Middle East and Northern Africa is that organising outside of "approved" bodies is often hampered. The leaders of these countries see any independent movement as a threat and respond with repressive measures. Witness arrests of opposition party members prior to elections in Egypt, for example.

This means that the only place where people may get together to discuss things is in the mosque. Imams have used prayer meetings to condemn terrorism and violence and, particularly in the West, have urged peaceful coexistence with non-Muslims.

Generally we don't get to hear of this because "good news" doesn't sell papers. Discord and unrest is newsworthy. Twenty imams preaching peace will be drowned out by the one promoting hate. Images of imams pressing for calm are less exciting to TV crews than images of angry crowds in the street.

[Edited 2011-01-02 21:13:16]

User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2695 times:

Extremists of the Religion of Peace blow up a church and kill a bunch of Christians or Jews etc.
Response from the Religion of Peace.............. crickets chirping..............................................

A Christian extremist in the USA says he is going to burn the Qur'an which is his right according to the US Constitution, and 2/3rds of the USA including the POTUS speak out and ask the Pastor not to do it, even though it is his Constitutional right, because the USA will be portrayed as burning the Qur'an, not some Kook in Florida exercising freedom of expression, and he complies...............anyone understand what I am getting at?

That! is my problem with the Religion of Peace...........


User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3516 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2689 times:
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I came to Egypt to spend the Holidays with my brother. This is a terrible crime and i am sure that this criminal act has some foreign hands behind it. And yes the silent moderate Muslims are showing up, a lot of demonstration by Christians and Muslims holding the Bible and the Koran are organised all over Egypt. The Azhar and all Muslim leadership came out strongly against this terrible act. Muslims all over Egypt are rushing to hospitals to donate blood for the wounded.

My deepest and sincere condolences to all the families of the innocent victims of this barbaric crime.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2679 times:

Quoting Mudboy (Reply 10):
Response from the Religion of Peace.............. crickets chirping..............................................


Religious scholars have issued many fatwas condemning terrorism and suicide bombings. Following a number of outrages, Muslim leaders around the world have expressed horror and disapproval in no uncertain words.

In the US the FIQH Council Of North America stated:

Quote:
In the light of the teachings of the Qur’an and Sunnah we clearly and strongly state:
1. All acts of terrorism targeting civilians are haram (forbidden) in Islam.
2. It is haram for a Muslim to cooperate with any individual or group that is involved in any act of terrorism or violence.
3. It is the civic and religious duty of Muslims to cooperate with law enforcement authorities to protect the lives of all civilians.

Source: http://www.cair.com/americanmuslims/...rrorism/fatwaagainstterrorism.aspx

In the UK Pakistani-born Sheikh Tahir ul-Qadri, a prominent theologian who launched a seminal fatwa in London told fellow Muslims:

Quote:
"Terrorism is terrorism, violence is violence and it has no place in Islamic teaching and no justification can be provided for it, or any kind of excuses of ifs and buts. The world needs an absolute, unconditional, unqualified and total condemnation of terrorism".


Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...gainst-all-terrorists-1915000.html

To those who ask why don't Muslims condemn terrorism, the question that might be asked is why aren't we listening?


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20200 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

Quoting Quokka (Reply 12):

To those who ask why don't Muslims condemn terrorism, the question that might be asked is why aren't we listening?

The question I ask is: "Why aren't they DOING something?" Condemning is one thing. Actually combating the problem on the ground is another.

These "Madrassas" are still recruiting kids to blow themselves up. It's not stopping.

I know that the guy down the street running the corner store is an honest and honorable man and wouldn't hurt a soul. But if these acts get common enough, someone in a position of power somewhere is going to fly off the handle and start rounding up all the Muslims (men, women, and children) and executing them into a mass grave. And that's going to get even uglier because the response will be... you guessed it... more terrorism.


User currently offlinedirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1697 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

It's all so terrible.
Although I wasn't in Egypt at the time of the bombings, I heard from friends that everyone in Egypt is shocked. Last year's attack was a mild skirmish; this time they struck at the heart of the world's most important Coptic city. What's shocking is the stuff I'm hearing-that there have been riots, hooligans who stormed mosques etc (but I think these are isolated incidents). There was an issue over a church being built a month or two ago, which also sparked riots....so there's a lot of build-up. It's so sad-not the terrorist acts, but that there would be sectarian strife in Egypt. We read about thse things happening in Iraq, in India, in Pakistan-and now they're happening in Egypt too.
The media and government has rushed to condemn these acts, and hopefully tighter security means that something like this won't happen again.
The last year has been very interesting-first the attacks in southern Egypt, then the church issue and now this. Interesting times ahead.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8913 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2527 times:

Quoting directorguy (Reply 14):
The media and government has rushed to condemn these acts, and hopefully tighter security means that something like this won't happen again.

That's the problem - this is apparently the second time that a Coptic church has been bombed in the past year where the police protection mysteriously was pulled out just before the attack.

http://www.aina.org/news/20110101232613.htm



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
The question I ask is: "Why aren't they DOING something?"


But they are. Various bodies have organised campaigns against terror including sermons in mosques; petitions; providing information to security and police bodies. Remember that it was a Muslim woman who drew the attention of NYPD to the suspicious car in Times Square.

In the UK some Muslims bodies are working closely with the police in a sort of "neighbourhood watch meets police youth club" type arrangement. And I expect the guy in the corner store tells his children to be good and not break their mother's heart. These sorts of activities tend not to occur in the blare of the media.

In some countries, to combat Islamists (let alone Jihadists) the government has banned political discussion in the mosques and madrases. Morocco springs to mind, but this doesn't completely prevent those bent on criminal acts.

Back to Egypt, the security forces have made some arrests and are currently holding seven suspects. If those arrested were indeed involved they can look forward to a very unpleasant future.

See http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...arrest-17-coptic-attack-alexandria for more information.

(Spell check offered the following as suggestions to replace Jihadists: Headsets, Cultists and Keyboardists. Go figure.)


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6361 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2496 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):

You're a Christian, yes? Clearly, you support Fred Phelps and his godhatesfags crowd. Your religion is hateful and evil.

Oh, I'm sorry, was that unfair? So's your statement about Islam. So knock it the hell off.

  


User currently offlinefuturepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2484 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
You're a Christian, yes? Clearly, you support Fred Phelps and his godhatesfags crowd. Your religion is hateful and evil.

Oh, I'm sorry, was that unfair? So's your statement about Islam. So knock it the hell off.

I never said anything about being a christian, because i'm not biased. Each side has it's fair share of radicals. If it was a christian who blew up a mosque i'd be saying the same thing. What I said was more of a shot at radicals using religion to kill people rather than it being a shot at Islam. I coulda swore I pointed that out in my second post.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):

That said, moderate Muslims are standing by mostly silent while these acts occur. I think that most Muslims feel that they are powerless to stop these acts.

Which is what i'm most angry at. I feel that moderate Muslims don't want most of these acts to happen, but at the same time, a lot of them turn a blind eye to it.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3516 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2449 times:
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Quoting futurepilot16 (Reply 18):
Which is what i'm most angry at. I feel that moderate Muslims don't want most of these acts to happen, but at the same time, a lot of them turn a blind eye to it.


Ok what will you do if you were in my shoes?



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20200 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 19):


Ok what will you do if you were in my shoes?

Organize? Start loud, vocal groups like "Muslims Against Terror" etc?


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5908 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

In Pakistan today an incenced Elite Forces body guard of Punjab province Governer pumped 22 bullets into him as he came out of a restaurant, for sympathising with a Christian girl being accused of blasphemy and given death sentence by lower courts, the Governer a liberal thinking, westernised person had called Pakistan's blasphemy laws a black mark for the country, Pakistan govt. ha dplanne don modifying teh laws but have taken a back step again due to fanatic fear enforcsed public opposition.

User currently offlinefuturepilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 19):
Ok what will you do if you were in my shoes?

I honestly don't know because I don't know your situation

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
Organize? Start loud, vocal groups like "Muslims Against Terror" etc?

And condemn him to being thrown in jail for blasphemy?



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27241 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

Sadly this is a growing problem in Egypt where its Christian minority are being targeted more and more. These are the headlines that you see , there are more that are not so widely reported. Just like the Christians in Iraq.

User currently offlineNW747400 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2419 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
You're a Christian, yes? Clearly, you support Fred Phelps and his godhatesfags crowd. Your religion is hateful and evil.

Oh, I'm sorry, was that unfair? So's your statement about Islam. So knock it the hell off.

No, it is fair because it's your constitutional right to be wrong. While I disagree with his rhetoric, how many people has he murdered? Oh right none, so it's not the same thing as murdering people as you implicitly suggest. It's just utter garbage honestly. I have no problem with Islamic extremists expressing their opinions; I have a problem with them killing people. Honestly Doc, your ridiculous attempts to equate even the most extreme Christians with Islamic extremists are absurd. The big difference you seem to routinely miss is that Islamic extremists systematically kill those that they disagree with. I ask you again, you may disagree with evangelical's stance on homosexuals, but do you see these Christians bombing gay bars? You know the answer.
NW747400


25 Post contains links MadameConcorde : I just saw this today... Three Coptic Orthodox churches in the Netherlands feature on an al-Qaeda list of possible bombing targets, say church spokesp
26 SOBHI51 : It started happening in Egypt as we speak, actors(ess) sportsmen (women) writers, TV personalities, Islamic scholars among others are out in arms cal
27 MadameConcorde : This is very good and how it should be and I fully support the actions only I am most afraid it will not stop the crazy fanatic killers.
28 directorguy : This isn't reflective of a tendancy to 'turn a blind eye' but rather suggestive of the corruption in the security forces-something manifested in a th
29 777way : Al Qaeda is either an entity set up by agencies to forward their agenda of new world order or they are truly misguided, because Islam does not allow a
30 Dreadnought : Then please explain why they call themselves Jihadists. The word itself says Holy War - specifically Islamic Holy War. If their motivation was someth
31 Quokka : In the West, the word is generally understood to mean "holy war," but Jihad is the Arabic for what can be variously translated as "struggle" or "effor
32 Dreadnought : The old excuse. The Qur’an specifically exempts the disabled and elderly from Jihad (4:95), which would make no sense if the word is being used mer
33 SOBHI51 : This is a rough translation of a poem spreading very fast in Egypt and on FB. The Arabic version is much stronger. It is to be taken as sarcastic poem
34 777way : If they are agents of other countries like I said, then obviously the "Jihadist" label they carry is to mislead the world and other muslims who dont
35 Dreadnought : However there is no evidence to support the claim that Al Qaeda and their kin are motivated less by their religious beliefs than as agents of some hi
36 hka098 : I think it is going to be a difficult question for the West, overall, to understand the rationale behind what drives Islamic terrorists. There is a la
37 777way : ^ You will never find any evidence if they are agents, and even if you do it will get lost or proven false with such authentic lies that you will have
38 UNCRDU : I think one of the most difficult jobs in the world would be going undercover into a terrorist organization and bringing it down from the inside. Almo
39 lewis : Even if it is so, historically, the spread of Islam was never done in a peaceful way. Not surprising, there are very few cases of Muslim countries wi
40 hka098 : Islam can be replaced with Christianity in the sentence too. Conquistadores?
41 lewis : Didn't say otherwise. Just noting that Jihad, whether it means spreading Islam and increasing numbers or holly war, is practically the same thing - a
42 SOBHI51 : I do not figure how some here can get to those wrong conclusions. Explain to me how blowing up a church can be considered Jihad either in trying to sp
43 lewis : From BBC: "Blow up the churches while they are celebrating Christmas or any other time when the churches are packed," says a line from a video attrib
44 777way : Al Qaeda is no authority on Islam, they are a terrorist organisation that are extremeist deviants or agents of some other countries dont act so naieve
45 lewis : Who said that all of Islam is behind this? Just don't try to deny the fact that this attack, whether you call it terrorism, Jihad, or whatever you wa
46 Post contains links Dreadnought : How do you explain statements like these, in regards to the recent murder of Salmaan Taseer? http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=2395
47 777way : Did anyone say we are denying that its religiously motivated? but its misguided/misinterprated.
48 lewis : It sure is misguided! But all the talk of "it is not a Jihad", it is not condoned by the Islamic religious leadership, well, for the ones doing the k
49 hka098 : Christianity has been much more sublime in the last couple of centuries. In times past they were just a violent in pursuing their ends as Islam. This
50 Post contains links petertenthije : Lately the good news coming from Islam is getting reported as well, and about time too. This polarizing in the media only makes things worse. Did you
51 777way : Yes its their perverted interpretation of Jihad, not mine or that of majority muslims including scholars who have devoted their lives to studying Isl
52 lewis : I guess telling you that I never said Christianity has not done violent things in the past does not work. Well, I am not a practicing Christian so th
53 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : A majority? http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/up...estft/PakistanPollReportJune08.pdf -- 74.7 percent think "implementing strict Sharia law throughou
54 777way : Actually you are right, all of a sudden I find Sharia is great, Osama is great, Al Qaeda is great, Taliban are great, I have to relent to them and the
55 Dreadnought : I never said that. I am challenging your assertion that it is but a small minority that believes in radicalized Islam and that is not religion that i
56 Quokka : 4:95 reads, "Not equal are the sedentary among the believers who are not handicapped, and those who strive in the cause of God with their money and t
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