Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
PC Gone Amok: Huck Finn Sans "N" Word  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8294 posts, RR: 26
Posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2810 times:

OK now this just rubs me absolutely raw. Notwithstanding the fact that part of the beauty of literature is that it allows us to see snapshots of life at the time a work was written, or that authors write with the intention of preserving a work for posterity...but this is just mind-numbingly dumb!!

What is a word worth? According to Publishers Weekly, NewSouth Books' upcoming edition of Mark Twain's seminal novel "Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" will remove all instances of the N-word -- I'll give you a hint, it's not nonesuch -- present in the text and replace it with slave.

The new book will also remove usage of the word Injun. The effort is spearheaded by Twain expert Alan Gribben, who says his PC-ified version is not an attempt to neuter the classic but rather to update it.


http://www.cnn.com/2011/SHOWBIZ/01/04/new.huck.finn.ew/index.html

Don't give me all this gobbledy-gook about more kids being able to read a modified version. The whole point of learning about different contexts and historical times is to see how the connotations of words matter, how those meanings have changed, and the like. How are kids supposed to learn about that if we censor everything??

And if this guy was such an expert on Twain, surely he'd heed the man's words: better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15836 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2801 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
The new book will also remove usage of the word Injun.

How many kids would even know what that means?

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
The effort is spearheaded by Twain expert Alan Gribben, who says his PC-ified version is not an attempt to neuter the classic but rather to update it.

Usually "updating" a classic creates a steaming pile of crap.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21876 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Don't give me all this gobbledy-gook about more kids being able to read a modified version. The whole point of learning about different contexts and historical times is to see how the connotations of words matter, how those meanings have changed, and the like. How are kids supposed to learn about that if we censor everything??

Sounds like your anger should be directed at those who do the censoring, not at this editor. Given the choice between schools not having their students read the books and letting them read a modified version, I can see where he's coming from.

He's admitted that this particular version is not for everybody, and that people should read the original text if at all possible.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2777 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Sounds like your anger should be directed at those who do the censoring, not at this editor. Given the choice between schools not having their students read the books and letting them read a modified version, I can see where he's coming from.

He's admitted that this particular version is not for everybody, and that people should read the original text if at all possible.

So not "PC gone amok" at all. End of thread.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5740 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2743 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Given the choice between schools not having their students read the books and letting them read a modified version, I can see where he's coming from.

Honestly, that's a load of bullshit. I read it in high school, uncensored and all (this was in the middle of the previous round of efforts to censor the book, about 7 or 8 years ago). Trust me when I say that reading the "modified" version completely and utterly takes away the entire point of the book. I was more disturbed by the Duke and King storyline than some silly words.

Next item: remove the chapters where Huck dresses up as a girl. Something about promoting homosexuality will be the excuse. Heck, it's probably been done before.

There is no choice. It's all or nothing.... and I'd be willing to bet the schools who don't teach it just because of the language will be some of the worst performing schools in the country.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 3):
So not "PC gone amok" at all

You're right: it's totalitarianism run amok. All these people want to do is control exactly what people can and can't read. You start with the kids, because they're the most influenced, and will take that influence to the next generation of kids. So on and so forth.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21876 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 4):
I read it in high school, uncensored and all

Good. That's the way it should be. But that's not the way it is.

The question to be asked here is not "why is this guy dumbing down Huck Finn to meet some PC standard?", but rather "should we really be censoring Huck Finn out of schools in the first place?" Because this guy makes it pretty clear that the only reason he's doing this edition is to make the book easier to get into classrooms.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8294 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2690 times:

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 3):
So not "PC gone amok" at all

No it still is - this shouldn't be done, period. You don't modify literature.

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Because this guy makes it pretty clear that the only reason he's doing this edition is to make the book easier to get into classrooms.

Why do anything that further rationalizes such atrocious educational policy??



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10350 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
not an attempt to neuter the classic but rather to update it.

How do you update a classic??? Doesn't that make it, oh I dunno, not a classic anymore?!

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
and replace it with slave.

Wow. Is that even better?



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5373 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2675 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
The question to be asked here is not "why is this guy dumbing down Huck Finn to meet some PC standard?", but rather "should we really be censoring Huck Finn out of schools in the first place?" Because this guy makes it pretty clear that the only reason he's doing this edition is to make the book easier to get into classrooms.

   Therein lies the issue. If ignoramuses would simply stop demanding that certain books be banned, we wouldn't even need to be having this discussion. Unfortunately, too few people in this world truly understand that education will sometimes lead us down dangerous pathways that will shake us to our very core and force us to question our beliefs. That is the beauty of education, yet some would rather bury their heads in the sand than expose themselves to wonderful new ideas.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
Why do anything that further rationalizes such atrocious educational policy??

I'm torn by this whole thing. One the one hand, I am in full agreement with you. Literature should not be banned because it "promotes" un-Christian ideals (i.e. Bless Me Ultima) or because it discusses in detail that which we'd rather pretend never happened (i.e. Native Son, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, or To Kill a Mockingbird). On the other hand, I would prefer as many children as possible to be exposed to works such as Huck Finn even if it means that they must read a "sanitized" version. Still, I think the half-wits that are the reason behind this sort of sanitization need to just suck it up and accept that literature is a byproduct of its time, and sometimes it will deal with subject matter that is now taboo controversial, but was then considered the norm.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5555 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2676 times:

Today, watering down Huck Finn, tommorrow, the Three Stooges and the Twilight Zone being banned. Maybe I'm getting old, (54 years young) but, the world in general is in the midst of a malignant case of CSDD

Holy shit, PC killed off the Taco Bell doggy.
Common Sense Defecit Disorder And that my friends is how all this PC shit spreads like flies to a pile of turds and we get such so called talent as Justin Bieber, Ke$ha and even loudmouth Lady Ga Ga.
  



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineKevinL1011 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2964 posts, RR: 47
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2669 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 7):
How do you update a classic???

Easy. At the bottom of the first page you print " Reprinted January 2011".
Heck, Ted Turner gets away with it in film all the time.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
How are kids supposed to learn about that if we censor everything??

I'm surprised that the anti-tobacco contingent hasn't spoken out about Hucks corncob pipe.
Assuming it was filled with tobacco.   



474218, Carl, You will be missed.
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2666 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
is not an attempt to neuter the classic but rather to update it.

Who the hell updates a "classic?"

Unbedamnlievable. I read that book in like 4th grade in Catholic school (yes, those evil bastions of right-wing lunacy), unabridged, but beforehand we had a long discussion about the negativity of the N-word and its terrible place in history.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Just saying.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineKevinL1011 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2964 posts, RR: 47
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2667 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 9):
Holy shit, PC killed off the Taco Bell doggy.

And the "Frito Bandito".
But the "Lucky Charms" leprechaun lives on. Go figure.



474218, Carl, You will be missed.
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6120 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2628 times:

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 12):
But the "Lucky Charms" leprechaun lives on. Go figure.

Because it's perfectly okay for kids to steal.

It's also perfectly okay to taunt, harass, and make animals suffer.

Also, eating breakfast cereal is like crack. It'll make you bonkers!



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 7):
How do you update a classic???

Exactly. You don't 'update' a classic by meddling with its content in this way, you ruin it. Pure and simple. Absolutely disgraceful.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13202 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2595 times:

First of all, this version is not the only one available, but an alternative version so it can be used in schools without any of the hassles from parents or those offended by these words. In all but a few libraries, bookstores and probably on the Internet, one can find the original version to read on their own.

Educators are under enough pressure to do their jobs from a wide range of interests so why not use a cleaned up version to teach a classic story to teach it's valuable lessons including showing the friendship of persons of different races which we still badly need in our society.

I would hope that this version has a preface noting the reasons for the removal of the 'n-word' and other words. Further it should note and be discussed in classrooms the historical and other reasons why Twain used the offensive words in his original work.


User currently offlinejwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 11):
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Just saying.

whitey! kike!

need one say more?



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 15):
but an alternative version so it can be used in schools without any of the hassles from parents or those offended by these words.

But that is part of the major problem here - the way I see it, fools like that should not be caved in to. There should be no soft option here, and there should be no perversion of classic literature just to appease ultra-PC morons. Let them teach their spawn at home if they are so stupid that they can't understand the value of studying works in their original form.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15836 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2548 times:

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 12):
But the "Lucky Charms" leprechaun lives on.

All that crap from the indian tribes and Notre Dame still gets to be the Fighting Irish?

Quoting jwenting (Reply 16):
whitey!

Then there is the American restaurant chain called Cracker Barrel. The funny part is that the name is very descriptive.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinehka098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2496 times:

The funny part about all of this is that the child will probably go home and listen to some hip-hop record that has the n-word all over it. Children know how to use YouTube and can find whatever they want.

This seems like a play, to appease the lawyers and sell more books to schools. If Twain wasn't already dead, he'd die laughing at this situation.


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6171 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2478 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting KevinL1011 (Reply 12):
But the "Lucky Charms" leprechaun lives on. Go figure.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
Notre Dame still gets to be the Fighting Irish?

Thats easy to figure out. The only group you can make fun of without being called a bigot is white men. If the Irish were any other color, but white, that stuff would have been gone a long time ago.

Quoting hka098 (Reply 19):
sell more books to schools

That makes the most sense.... They will also be sold at prices much higher than the local book store. It is amazing how much money schools and businesses waste buying from specialty businesses because they will except a purchase order. I see how much our district wastes ordering stuff that way, if they had a person who would just drive around in a van and go to regular retailers paying with a credit card they could save a lot of time, paper work ,and money.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
The funny part is that the name is very descriptive

Yep, making fun of the white man is ok, but if you made fun of a person who wasn't white the mods would delete that post in a second.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 4):
There is no choice. It's all or nothing.... and I'd be willing to bet the schools who don't teach it just because of the language will be some of the worst performing schools in the country.

You might be surpirsed, I worked in a rough school, in a black area, that was VERY low performing and we used a lot of teaching aids and materials that were revelant to what our students knew. When they read a book we wanted to make sure they were reading a book that was something they could relate to. There were things we used to get lessons across that would never fly in stuffy white school (like where I work now). The goal was to keep students engaged and in school. I once taught a class about employability and the the book was filled with pictures of white and asian kids. The kids hated the book and didn't pay much attention. When I changed the class to some things that some local businesses sugested and had local people come in to talk about their jobs everyone paid attention.

Quoting hka098 (Reply 19):
The funny part about all of this is that the child will probably go home and listen to some hip-hop record that has the n-word all over it

I used to teach in Detroit and I heard the "N-word" dozens of times a day. I once kept count with a small hand held counter. I heard Nigger or Nigga 77 times in one day. It was so widespread that I had students who said I was their nigga, on a regular basis. Those were good students and that was to be taken as a compliment.

There was a difference between the words. If a student called somebody a nigger it was angry and usually led to a fight, or was used to describe somebody the student didn't like. If the student used nigga, it was a friendly word that was a compliment.

Words change and progress over time and not just this word. Language continues to evolve and always will.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8773 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

It's fine. The word has not use in society. I say, yeah good re-edit huck finn. The controversy itself is poison. It teaches the kid the harm, and perverse power of the word. Kind of like showing them how to smoke crack.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 20):
Those were good students and that was to be taken as a compliment.

They may be good students, but they will never EVER get a job behaving like that. Anyone who uses the word in a media or blog post, or in a photo online, will never work a day in their life.

If a person wants no job, then fine, go ahead and use the n-word a lot.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11806 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

Interesting. In this thread, I see people writing "the n-word" but never actually coming out and saying "nigger." That is the actual word we are talking about, right? Why buy into this censorship BS by continuing to censor that one word that was origionally used in literature? IMHO, if words are used in a historical context, use the whole word. Twain actually used the word "nigger" because that is what America was like back then. Get over it. Why do we need a sanitized version of history? Isn't Germany going through the same thing with WWII?


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):
The word has not use in society

But it did at one time, so why pretend otherwise? Would you prefer that we just ignored the past altogether and learnt nothing from comparing then with now? Something which literature of the time helps us do? Butchering classics like this will do nothing to stop racists using offensive words, and will do everything to stop people learning about a certain period in history, and understanding why writers wrote what they did, and perhaps most importantly - why we don't act and speak the same now!



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinehka098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2423 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 21):

I see your point, but where does it stop? Next thing may be the government and society dictating what we can read.


25 MoltenRock : That's what I noticed about 4 or 5 posts in. Why in this thread about the word nigger do people shy away from it, or use n-word or other sanitized ve
26 Post contains images Aaron747 : Yes sir You know that's an interesting angle - I bet this guy just wants to go to the top of the "Twain expert" pack and sell books. Because that's h
27 FRAspotter : To all the people here who seem outraged that they would consider updating the book to meet some "PC Standard", it's not all that uncommon... Sure you
28 vikkyvik : I wouldn't call Lady Gaga "PC" by any means. Simple - because many people dislike the use of that word. No, it doesn't prove a point. People don't li
29 IMissPiedmont : And you are being politically correct by this. Why not just priny what tou mean, they want to remove the word nigger.
30 Post contains images Aaron747 : Like irony or sarcasm much??
31 BMI727 : I only remember seeing one black guy at a Cracker Barrel, and he was an employee. This struck me as being funny. And know what else I thought was fun
32 starbuk7 : And I'll bet that most of these people that are offended by the Mark Twain version of Huck Finn go and listen to stand-up comedy and laugh at ever ref
33 hka098 : Once a piece of information is placed on the Internet, it never leaves, it can never be deleted.
34 Mir : Because he feels that, for the kids, reading edited Twain is better than reading no Twain. I don't necessarily agree with him - like OA260, I'm torn
35 falstaff : A lot of people act different in school and around their friends than they ever would at work. I have been known to use bad language and tell dirty j
36 hka098 : I don't know. There can be anyone from anywhere on these forums. I'll err on the side of caution.
37 474218 : My wife took her "talking Taco Bell Chihuahuas out about a month ago to show to our "grand-niece". All five still worked. "Drop the Chalupa"! Very de
38 DeltaMD90 : Who is anyone kidding? Does anyone thing removing it from this book is gonna shield kids from the word "nigger?" Because most kids (or at least at my
39 DocLightning : Woah woah woah woah. Let me make something clear, and I'm going to say it in caps: NOBODY IS BANNING THE ORIGINAL MARK TWAIN BOOKS If you want to rea
40 Post contains images KevinL1011 : The same place where they learn about sex. . Hey! They're Native Americans ! Well, that depends on what time of day you post it and which Mod is scre
41 Mudboy : Ok, I am dating myself here, but what age group of kids are we talking about here, because I cannot remember what grade I read this in? On that note,
42 Maverick623 : High school. Usually juniors or seniors (I read it in school senior year, although I had read it when I was 13 on my own), so anywhere from 15-18. So
43 RussianJet : Because that was how it was at the time of writing, and removing it and pretending otherwise doesn't alter that. But, if you read the thread, this ha
44 hka098 : Never said they were. Government encroachment on anything happens in a very small, very measured process. DeltaMD90's comment is spot-on. "Who is any
45 Post contains images Mudboy : Ok, I was thinking 11-12 y/o, my bad. Ok, who who get offended at Mudboy? See I am from the Mississippi Delta where it is 70% black, so it would not
46 falstaff : by watching dirty videos and reading dirty magazines the way I did. I did actually. My spinal deformity kept me out...
47 seb146 : Let me ask this question, then: Why is the media so up in arms going so far as to not even say nigger, but still they are acceptable with saying faggo
48 Slider : Preach on man!! haha, right on the money.... EXACTLY. The double standard and utter hypocrisy of just the use, connotation and utterance of the N wor
49 Aaron747 : But see this is where things get interesting. Parents can certainly steer their teenagers in the right direction, as you have no doubt tried to do, b
50 vikkyvik : I would feel the exact same way that I feel about "nigger" being removed. Hell, what if I said I wanted to remove every single time Native Americans
51 RussianJet : That is absolutely spot on. Very neatly summed up indeed.
52 DocLightning : But this has nothing to do with the government. Unless I'm missing something. This is one "scholar" who has decided to "update" and offer a new versi
53 hka098 : Why do you think he/she is making this change? He/she is bowing to some kind of pressure. Scholars do not make a good name for themselves by neuterin
54 Mir : Yes it does, because the original text had "nigger" in it, which has a very specific connotation. Depends on the text in question. I'm not a fan of g
55 DeltaMD90 : It's used a lot by black people and even some white and latinos (and even other races.) I know it doesn't sound PC, but that's how it is. Maybe I sho
56 Post contains images DocLightning : That's a hell of a theory. Do you have any FACTS to back it up, or is this...
57 2707200X : Im not one of these people who complain about political correctness all the time but I am no fan of sanitized history and in here you have to show bad
58 hka098 : So they're re-editing an entire book for the hell of it?
59 seb146 : I wonder if this same publisher is going to publish a sanitized version of the Bible? Take out all the sex and violence to make it more acceptable? It
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Word Game # 301 posted Mon Dec 27 2010 17:47:49 by 2707200X
Jamon (Ham) Is A Four Letter Word? posted Tue Dec 21 2010 19:00:42 by 474218
PC Malware Goes To Porn Sites posted Tue May 4 2010 15:04:25 by comorin
The American Legal System Has Truly Gone To Hell.. posted Tue Mar 30 2010 22:37:34 by FRAspotter
Tea Party Turns Nasty - Tosses Out "N" Word posted Sat Mar 20 2010 17:49:27 by Ken777
Facebook Gone Gamer posted Sat Feb 6 2010 14:24:13 by KLMA330
Word Game #297 posted Fri Jan 22 2010 00:31:48 by 2707200X
Large PC Cases For Dual Video Card Systems? posted Fri Jan 8 2010 20:09:26 by Cpd
Have We Become Too PC? (Controversial) posted Sun Dec 6 2009 13:34:00 by ATCtower
Newest Health Care Bill...$2.24 Million A Word. posted Sat Oct 31 2009 21:09:24 by DXing