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War Question  
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 815 times:

Is the war of 1967 the war when Israel took on several countries at the same time?

How many countries did they take on?

How on Earth did they win?




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23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLortab 7.5mg From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 805 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 793 times:

You mean the Six Day War? It was a preemptive strike therefore it caught the Arabs by surpise, unlike the Yom Kippur War (1973) when the Egyptians broke through the Bar-lev line in the Sinai and almost to Israel.

My guess: Egypt, Jordan and Syria.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13253 posts, RR: 77
Reply 2, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 757 times:

The IAF caught most of the Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian airforces on the ground in a classic pre-emptive strike.


User currently offlineTbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 749 times:

Here's an extensive overview of the war, whether or not you'll like the source.

http://www.idf.il/english/history/sixday.stm



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 743 times:

As you guys said, it was a pre-emptive attack: in other words, Israel started the war.

Strange, that doesn't tie in with the Israeli propaganda that they are the downtrodden, hard-done-by innocents who are the victims of Arab terrorism and unjustified attacks!


User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 738 times:

Here we go again....


She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 734 times:

hold on,

We are only meant to have one israel-palestine topic.

SAS23, do me and the world a favour and stop in the name of love, just stop, stop your facist,racist, anti-Jewish unsubstainated attacks.

Israel attacked because it was surrounded, nowdays it waits until the palestinians think it's holy and just to attack their civilains.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineHepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 725 times:

Guys, I SWEAR, if this degenerates into another Israel vs. Palestinian thread, it'll get deleted quicker than you can say "we miss you Kroc".

Either we keep this on a discussion about the 1967 war and the countries involved, as the author intended, or we post our Israel/Palestinian grievances in the designated thread already in progress.


User currently offlineRogueTrader From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 6 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 710 times:

I would like to know, without bothering to actually research it myself, who the behind the scenes players in this war were, if any. I think the Soviets got kind of cozy with Egypt at this time and possibly Syria? What about Israel: had the US achieved its epic military financing at this point, or what?

A cursory review of this matter from someone with knowledge would be nice.

kind regards,

RogueTrader


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13253 posts, RR: 77
Reply 9, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 675 times:

Whatever your views on Israel, it's common knowledge that 1967 was a pre-emptive strike, the Arab states were preparing to attack.
The Cold War made things simpler then, Israel=The West, Egypt and Syria=Soviet backed.
Even so, France slapped an arms embargo on Israel as a result, giving the French airforce 50 free Mirage 5 aircraft destined for the IAF.
(Bet Mr Dassault wasn't too bothered though, the IAF had already cemented the Mirage's reputation in combat).


User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 663 times:

I would like to know, without bothering to actually research it myself, who the behind the scenes players in this war were, if any. I think the Soviets got kind of cozy with Egypt at this time and possibly Syria? What about Israel: had the US achieved its epic military financing at this point, or what?

Israel and the United States had a good relationship in 1967, but probably not as close a relationship as exists today. It could be argued that the 1967 war really brought the nations together.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 653 times:

At the time of the six day war,israelis were aware of their history in a different sense that they had seen before, they were aware of the jewish republics and of the revolts against the empires that overran them, they were events such as masada which had been distorted to create a fabric of national awareness of a common history, they were reconnecting with the place.

seeing arab armies massing on their borders made the israelis insecure and they struck first, yet they would not have followed that action if they did not feel insecure.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 641 times:

Fire in the hole!  Yeah sure

SAS23 is on the warpath again!


And to add on to what GDB said, it was that French embargo that led to the development of the KFIR fighter.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 636 times:

Warpath again, me?  Big grin

As an add-on to L-188's add-on to GDB's post, it was following the confiscation (for lack of a better term) of the Mirages that the Israelis decided to steal the designs of the aircraft and their ATAR engines. This they did by getting an agent inside a Swiss company, who stole the blueprints for over 90% of the components.

Ken Follet wrote a great (and only slightly fictional, according to a friend of a friend who was directly involved) book about it, called Mirage.

At the same time, they put two fingers up at the French by 'stealing' their fast attack craft from the shipyard where they had been built and where they were being held.

Way to go, guys!!  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up  Big thumbs up

Go Canada! - what Jewish republics exactly??


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 634 times:

Ummm...SAS23...

Last time I checked F-23's AKA the KFIR fighters, where powered by J-79's not the French ATAR's



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 633 times:

Umm. Scratch that F fighter designation from the last post please.....

Thank You.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 630 times:

For many years, IAI had wanted to build its own engine components for overhauls - and the French sanctions provided the impetus. However, one cannot simply reverse engineer an engine or aircraft - you have to know the precise specifications of each component in terms of alloy, heat treatment etc.

Remember, the Mirage 5 was not the Kfir (produced in a JV with Denel as the Cheetah in South Africa) but its predecessor.

I believe that they are now looking at using the same engines that power the SU27/Mig29?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 626 times:

I think you are correct on the South African Varient there SAS23. I remember reading about that reeingining program too.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 943 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 612 times:

The relations between Israel and the USA in the 60’s were not even close to what they are today.

As said it was France who supported Israel in the 50’s and 60’s and the climax was when France gave Israel an Atomic Reactor (They did it so Israel will participate in the France - British campaign against Egypt in 1956).
When the USA found about it they were not very happy and the relations between the two states weren’t too well.

If I remember correctly the ground war against Egypt was on days 1-3 (or 4), against Jordan 2 (or 3) – 5 and Syria 5-6.

As said in the link that Tbar220 gave they are a few reasons why Israel started the war and not waited for the Arabs to start it.
You should understand that the main slogan in Israel at that time was “NEVER AGAIN” and it connects to the holocaust of course.

Many of the soldiers in the regular army were holocaust survivals children and many soldiers in the reserve army were holocaust survivals themselves so things were different then.
And although Israel today is not Israel in 1967, we still remember it.




Long live the B747
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 604 times:

I recall a friend (who was a Major in the IDF) telling me that in one of the wars (1973?) some of the Orthodox Jews strung up wire across the roads in their area so that Israeli troops driving along in open jeeps would be decapitated. Apparently, this was because they were breaking the Shabat or something?

User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 590 times:

SAS23,

In reference to your question I meant the jewish kingdoms that existed before the crushing of the jewish revolt by the romans which ended the second temple period, it might hurt for you to know but believe it or not there were jews living in the middle east. I dont have a clue why i said republic, i can only apologise for any inference that was misleading.

I have to dimiss works of fiction, whether based on some limited grasp of the facts or not, they do not have to have the same standard of referencing and it is dangerous to assume that an accurate picture of events can be ascertained from a work of fiction, whether linked to reality or not.

Pharses in israel at the time of the war included "Masada shall not fall again", the IDF sent its troops to masada to swear an oath of loyalty, troops saw this and the link to the holocaust(see Recovered roots collective memory and the making of Israeli national tradition by Yael Zerubavel for further info or The Masada myth collective memory and mythmaking in Israel by Nachman Ben-Yehuda). The awareness of the jewish past helped create the atmosphere of fear that lead to the six day's war.

Whilst I could not endorse reading the Israeli Ministery of Defence's work on the six day's war, due to questions of objectivity, it does gives an overview of events. A good, general text is The history of Israel by Arnold Blumberg, offering an overview of events, from there a person can then go into the subject in greater detail.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 579 times:

Go Canada! - I was always under the impression that republics were the opposite of kingdoms? Also, isn't it the case that the 'kingdoms' you describe were really nomadic tribes, similar to the Bedouin of today - and that there was no fixed territory as we would regard a country?

The basic facts in Mirage are just that: historical facts. Sure, it's been fictionalised - no one was taking down the coversations of those who participated and doubtless for security reasons some names have been changed.

Plus it's a darn good read! Big grin Big grin


User currently offlineAvi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 943 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 572 times:

I recall a friend (who was a Major in the IDF) telling me that in one of the wars (1973?) some of the Orthodox Jews strung up wire across the roads in their area so that Israeli troops driving along in open jeeps would be decapitated. Apparently, this was because they were breaking the Shabat or something?

Shabat or something?

That was a good one.
It was Oct 6th 1973. At 13:55 Egypt and Syria opened what is known as The October War or in Israel, The Yom Kipur War.

Yom Kipur is the most holy day in the Jew calendar and no other day is getting even close to it.
Only very very very essential systems work on that day.
Essential systems are security, rescue and other factories that must work 24 hours. Nothing else.
There is no radio, TV, or traffic of any kind (not even a private one).

Unfortunately, some orthodox Jews did throw stones on passing vehicles.
Unfortunately they are doing it even today on Ambulances.
A few years ago a stone was thrown at a car on the Haifa – Tel Aviv highway killing on of the passengers.




Long live the B747
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 564 times:

Avi - thanks for that. Yes, Yom Kippur - I should have remembered that!!

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