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Westboro Baptists Strike Again In AZ  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8149 posts, RR: 26
Posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3280 times:

I really hope we all still love the 1st Amendment, because these people are really testing everyone's patience at this point...

Westboro Baptist Church spokeswoman Shirley Phelps-Roper, daughter of Fred Phelps, provided CNN with a statement detailing their decision to picket the funerals. It is filled with the usual anti-gay, anti-abortion and anti-divorce church members used to justify their pickets -- that God hates America because it has turned its back on what they see as God's way.

"We picket the funerals to make these vital points to the living!" Phelps-Roper said. "If you heed, it is life and health and peace and safety.

"God sent the shooter! Praise God for ALL his works, and BE YE THANKFUL!."


Maybe these guys need to be thankful nobody has taken them out with a high-powered rifle just yet  http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/01/11/arizona.funeral.westboro/index.html


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinehka098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3274 times:

Some folks will do just about anything to get attention.

User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3242 times:

Ye is a word you don't hear a lot. (bonus points for those who get the reference)

Other than that, is there anything useful that we can get from this story?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11655 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3237 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
Other than that, is there anything useful that we can get from this story?

Only that it's the wrong person in the box.



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently onlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3030 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3230 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
Maybe these guys need to be thankful nobody has taken them out with a high-powered rifle just yet


Bunch of odd balls for sure. They seem to be anti_______ fill in the blank that not sure they even stand for anything.
They caused Oklahoma to pass a law that they (or any protesters) have to be 300 ft away from funerals. Several motorcycle clubs in the area generally show up when they are protesting at a funeral so it would be hard to know what they are shouting over a few hundred Harley's.
Last time they were in Oklahoma they had some kind of road hazard incident to their van while it was parked and got four flat tires. They had to find someone to tow their vehicle out of the area to get the tires replaced as they could not find anyone to provide service.

Okie


User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3195 times:
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Well AZ just followed other states and made a law that they have to remain 300 feet away.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7957 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3184 times:

Didn't we all wait for another nuthead to come?   


I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2723 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3155 times:

Are these people for real? I do not wish ill on anyone but just maybe a bolt of lightning while they are picketing with their signs.


OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19682 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

Here's the bit I don't get: Phelps is a Calvinist. He believes that some people are pre-saved and that some people can never be saved.

So what's the point in all this? Just sit back and enjoyed your savedness, Fred.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13113 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3119 times:

The Arizona Legislature passed an emergency law banning any protests within 300 feet of the site of a funeral or burial service. It is based on an Ohio state law and so far upheld by the courts there. The Westboro cultists planned to protest both the 9 year old girl's and the Judge's funeral, albeit at about 1000 feet from the site of those services at a major intersection.

I wish the IRS would investigate the Westboro Baptist Church corporation and it's leaders to see if they are in any violation of the tax laws as to non-profits and religious organizations. Find some way to starve them of the money that sustains them in fines or the costs to defend themselves.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8149 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Here's the bit I don't get: Phelps is a Calvinist. He believes that some people are pre-saved and that some people can never be saved.

So what's the point in all this? Just sit back and enjoyed your savedness, Fred.

Phelps is also on record as quite the grudge holder, seeing as he went after this lady and got disbarred for his contact:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=16353368333889772229

It would appear from his overall record that somewhere he crossed the line from effective advocate to deranged provocateur:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informe...ity-held-hostage/fred-phelps-timel



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently onlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3030 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3105 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 10):
Find some way to starve them of the money that sustains them in fines or the costs to defend themselves.


One of their victims here in OK tried to sue them and ended up having to pay them and their attorney fees.
They seem to be their own worst enemy, just let them stand on the corner and protest, it is a free country, it does not look like they are gaining any converts with their tactics. As soon as it looks like that they are not getting any "free press" they leave. Right now they are getting more "press" than they have in years, if no one pays attention then they lose.

Okie


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19682 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2982 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 11):

http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...72229

Why are these things called "briefs"? They're anything but.

My question is: where the hell are they getting the money? Are there THAT many WBC supporters that they can somehow afford this operation?


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2907 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
My question is: where the hell are they getting the money? Are there THAT many WBC supporters that they can somehow afford this operation?

That is a good question. Apparently the family is very wealthy, and 4 of them are lawyers. By the way, have you visited their website? Prime candidates for a new Mental Health policy...

http://godhatesfags.com/



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4490 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 11):
One of their victims here in OK tried to sue them and ended up having to pay them and their attorney fees.
They seem to be their own worst enemy, just let them stand on the corner and protest, it is a free country, it does not look like they are gaining any converts with their tactics. As soon as it looks like that they are not getting any "free press" they leave. Right now they are getting more "press" than they have in years, if no one pays attention then they lose.

Actually Okie I've found the WBC can create positive outcomes in cities. When that fruitbasket of deranged scum comes to a town, literally THOUSANDS of people of all (and no) religious affiliations come together to counter-protest and condemn them. Not many times you get to see a Muslim, Christian, and an atheist standing side-by-side in solidarity against hatred.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineexFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2821 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 4):
Several motorcycle clubs in the area generally show up when they are protesting at a funeral so it would be hard to know what they are shouting over a few hundred Harley's.

Not just in Oklahoma - the Patriot Guard Riders are a national organization that send "missions" to funerals across the US. They were initially formed as a response to the Westboro nutjobs, but are increasingly focused more on missions to show respect for service-members and veterans, and have expanded to police, fire-fighters, and other "first responders" as well. They will respond to help with any protesters, not just Westboro. A friend who's participated in a few of the missions says, though, that the anti-Westboro events get the biggest turnouts. They also participate in "welcome home", deployment, and veterans ceremonies

From what I understand they don't actually run their engines during the service itself unless specifically asked to by the family of the deceased - some members don't even ride motorcycles - but simply place themselves between the protesters and the funeral or graveside service participants, with flags and banners to block the protesters from being visible or heard by the service participants. Before and after the service, they do rev the engines and sing patriotic songs. They go to services as invited guests of the family, so in places where the protesters are required to be outside a perimeter, they can position themselves just inside that perimeter for maximum shielding effect.


User currently offlinehka098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2821 times:

Quoting exFATboy (Reply 15):

Those guys sound alright to me. Even though I hate Harleys.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Quoting hka098 (Reply 16):
Those guys sound alright to me. Even though I hate Harleys.

They also escorted the boy in CA to school who was told he couldn't fly the flag on his bike. What a great moment. Great organization!


User currently offlinehka098 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2809 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 17):
They also escorted the boy in CA to school who was told he couldn't fly the flag on his bike.

What? Who told them that?


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8149 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
Why are these things called "briefs"? They're anything but.

Because they have to include every last documented fact, no matter how trivial.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Apparently the family is very wealthy, and 4 of them are lawyers. By the way, have you visited their website? Prime candidates for a new Mental Health policy...

Jeez, I was having a pretty nice morning till I saw that. Some things are just better to stay in the dark on...



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

They made a deal to leave the Green family alone.

http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/12...will-leave-green-family-alone-but/


User currently onlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3030 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2705 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
They made a deal to leave the Green family alone.


Why in the world would you "deal" with this bunch and be held hostage. Puhleeze
They just won.
Who and I mean "who" made a "deal" with what authority.
Let them stand on the corner protest and practice their first amendment rights.
Then just ignore them and then they lose.

Okie


User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4490 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

Quoting hka098 (Reply 18):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U2hB-Pz4zs



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26481 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 1 week ago) and read 2594 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 11):

One of their victims here in OK tried to sue them and ended up having to pay them and their attorney fees.

I think they just got costs (using an inflated, but accepted, rate for copies and tracking every drop of ink).

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):

Why are these things called "briefs"? They're anything but.

Haha. We lawyers like to fool you with our fancy names for things  
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Apparently the family is very wealthy, and 4 of them are lawyers.

In his day, Phelps was a formidable civil rights trial lawyer. Then he went nuts with the anti-gay stuff and ended up disbarred, first in Kansas then in the federal courts. If he saved his money then, bought a bit of property, they are probably ok. That said, their main source of income now is apparently when they get sued and win, they inflate their cost numbers within the legal framework and make a profit on things like copies and the like. When they sue, civil rights statutes allow them to collect attorney's fees, which they keep in house since at least a couple of his kids are still licensed.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19682 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (3 years 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2556 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 19):

Because they have to include every last documented fact, no matter how trivial.

Right. I get that. So why are they "briefs"?

So I have a question for the lawyers: It is my understanding that, while there is a Constitutional guarantee to freedom of expression, there is no such guarantee to police protection.

Why couldn't a police department simply refuse to provide security and inform them that they will have to arrange their own?


25 wn700driver : Hmmm... While we're at it, is there any way to pass a measure allowing privately owned transport companies the right to refuse services? Or is that a
26 Post contains images DocLightning : They can't discriminate on race, creed, or color. (So you can't run an all-Black airline... not even DL &nbsp . But I think that Phelps would be
27 okie : I suspect they bring enough people now to watch their vehicle and provide their own security, just guessing. Okie
28 hka098 : Surprised the Melvins didn't get you on that post. Thanks for sharing. All of those Harleys do sound nice.
29 DeltaMD90 : Isn't there some exception, like Hooters can hire just girls, and some ethnic food restaurants can hire just _______ ethnicity? A bit different from
30 futurepilot16 : Well.....we can only hope that some rich person pays someone to put this dream to reality. I wouldn't wish bad on anyone, but these people are the sc
31 ALTF4 : How about NAACP scholarships? I'm not saying I think I should get one if I were not black, but it does make you scratch your head.
32 ALTF4 : BTW, if/when that does happen, you can count on me being the first one to dig this message up on post it all over, just like you posted/referenced Pa
33 futurepilot16 : Feel free to do so, I sure as hell won't deny it. It's something I want to happen. I never said they weren't entitled to their opinions, but they're
34 Mir : If you look over their eligibility requirements, you don't have to be black to get one. You do have to be a member of the NAACP to get some of them (
35 Post contains images ALTF4 : I'm sorry, but I just cannot respect anybody who would wish another person/people dead when they have not done anything illegal. If WBC had a reputat
36 futurepilot16 : Did those words ever come out of my mouth? I only stated that if someone were willing to make it happen it wouldn't bother me in the least. Stop putt
37 Post contains images ALTF4 : Bullsh*t. Just read this: How about you speak more carefully next time.[Edited 2011-01-13 09:58:49]
38 D L X : Not to turn this into a Palin thread, but this is the Palin defense.
39 futurepilot16 : I'm just willing to say what we're all thinking. Probably
40 ALTF4 : Boy, you go from blaming me for putting words into your mouth to that. I would congratulate you on the nice recovery if it wasn't so obvious or your
41 UAL747DEN : Very well said. I was going to say young and stupid but you really are old enough to understand how freedom works. You are worse than they are if you
42 rwy04lga : Tell us how you REALLY feel! The quote: 'I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it' is usually attributed
43 Post contains links and images SKYSERVICE_330 : Canada to the rescue! (kind of) Radio host persuades church to drop funeral protest Updated: Thu Jan. 13 2011 6:59:58 AM The Canadian Press TORONTO
44 Dreadnought : Tell you what - It's one thing to protest the funeral of a soldier or some other adult - however distasteful. But it would have been something else t
45 UAL747DEN : Here we go again. It amazes me how quick people are to give up the very freedom this country was built.
46 Dreadnought : Who said about giving anything up? With rights comes responsibilities. You have the right to pretty much do as you please, but with that right comes
47 UAL747DEN : And some people in this world think protesting for gay rights is making an ass of yourself, would it be okay for them to take a "potshot" at those pr
48 ALTF4 : It scares me that nobody else besides you and I are publicly standing up for that.
49 UAL747DEN : I hope it is just because they are young and don't yet understand.
50 Mir : Consequences which should not include violence. Want to yell at them? Fine. But they are entitled by the Constitution to the same protection from har
51 Post contains images futurepilot16 : My point exactly. Just because we have the right to freedom of speech, doesn't give us the right to yell fire in a crowded theatre. Funny how you're
52 DocLightning : There is no right to police protection. Freedom of speech means that the GOVERNMENT can't punish you for your speech. The Constitution does NOT, howe
53 ALTF4 : I don't think anybody is arguing for police protection, Doc. I (and I think UAL747DEN is, as well, but I could be wrong) am just arguing that they be
54 DocLightning : Wait... where did anyone advocate removing their right to protest? Nobody is saying that we should arrest them. We're saying that we don't have to PR
55 Mir : Exactly. And what Dreadnought was suggesting was that the police not bother pressing charges, which is unacceptable. -Mir
56 exFATboy : If the government was trying to prevent protests in a way that selectively said "some can protest at funerals, some cannot" based on their message, t
57 ALTF4 : And as long as they follow those restrictions, they are in the clear, right? Yet, here we have Futurepilot16 advocating that they be murdered because
58 DocLightning : I didn't read that. Show me that. Because I can't find it.
59 D L X : That's right. The basics of First Amendment jurisprudence is that you can place content-neutral time, place, or manner restrictions on demonstrations
60 Dreadnought : The Constitution provides no such protection from other people. "CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting t
61 ALTF4 : See below. And if the police did that to your family if, God forbid, your wife or a child (if you have any) were murdered, what would you say? I bet
62 UAL747DEN : After reading your posts that is very clear. Doc, I think you are a reasonable person and I think you of all people should understand this. If the po
63 Dreadnought : If one of my family members was one of these hateful creeps, I could understand it. Does it make it right - no, but it's understandable.
64 DocLightning : When that asshat in Florida wanted to burn the Q'uran, the cops handed him a huge bill for the security costs. I don't see why this is any different.
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