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Protocol And The Royal Wedding  
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20345 posts, RR: 59
Posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4663 times:

So on the Av forums, there's talk about whether the Royal Wedding is a State event or if it isn't and whether William is Heir, an heir, or not an heir, etc.

I don't get any of it.

Also, suppose Charles died tomorrow. What would change?

66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4664 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
whether William is Heir, an heir, or not an heir, etc.

I thought it was pretty well known that he was next in line after his Father?   

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):

Prince William would be the next in line for the throne?   

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
I don't get any of it.

I probably don't either.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20345 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4654 times:

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 1):

I probably don't either.

It just goes to show that the USA doesn't have a monopoly on strange protocol and traditions. When it comes to pure weirdness of protocol, I think the British Royals take the cake.

BTW, did you know that the King of Spain has, as one of his styles, "King of Jerusalem"? I wonder if the Israelis know...


User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6054 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4633 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
It just goes to show that the USA doesn't have a monopoly on strange protocol and traditions. When it comes to pure weirdness of protocol, I think the British Royals take the cake.

I'm fairly sure it's the same protocol in all the various monarchies. There is only one current heir apparent / presumptive to any given throne, all others are merely a number in the line. And in the case of the British throne, that list is LONG - heck, just the other day a pair of twins was added at number 235 and 236 (though being 50/50 Australian, I think they might be more popular down under that most of the people ahead of them   ).


User currently offlineQANTASFOREVER2 From Australia, joined Dec 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3):
(though being 50/50 Australian, I think they might be more popular down under that most of the people ahead of them   ).

Same for the Danish Royals. :P


User currently offlineba1978 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4559 times:

A little light reading to help you out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heir_apparent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heir_presumptive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_of_succession_to_the_British_Throne



There are other ways and there's British Airways
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4522 times:

The Queen is still alive and well and I hope she will live until she is 122. I don't want to see Prince Charles becoming King.
William still has a while to wait.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
BTW, did you know that the King of Spain has, as one of his styles, "King of Jerusalem"? I wonder if the Israelis know...

Isn't the King of Spain also King of France as he is a Borbon and is said to descend directly from Louis XVI?

Me thinks the monarchies are outdated. I wouldn't mind seeing them all become republics and Monaco going back to France.

The less protocol the better..

Prince Albert has cut off all the protocol that used to exist during his father's reign. He now goes everywhere on his own. He has two motorcyclists, a chauffeur and a bodyguard when he goes on official duty in Monaco. The rest of the time he is mostly on his own and driving his own car. This may change after the wedding I am not sure.

I am not sure if the Japanese Imperial family has much protocol round when they go out in public?



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineQANTASFOREVER2 From Australia, joined Dec 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
Isn't the King of Spain also King of France as he is a Borbon and is said to descend directly from Louis XVI?

That's right! Not too many Borbon's in power left. And let's not mention the French relatives, either. Yikes.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
Me thinks the monarchies are outdated. I wouldn't mind seeing them all become republics and Monaco going back to France.

Wow. Seriously? Aren't you Monegasque? I think that every country needs to chart its own course and not be subject to a royal family if it divides more than it unites, but some countries may be better as monarchies than republics. Thailand, for instance (and this is coming from the fiercest Australian republican you could ever meet!).

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
I am not sure if the Japanese Imperial family has much protocol round when they go out in public?


Are you serious?? The Japanese Imperial Household Agency controls every aspect of the Royals' lives!


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4501 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
It just goes to show that the USA doesn't have a monopoly on strange protocol and traditions. When it comes to pure weirdness of protocol, I think the British Royals take the cake.

I'm fairly sure it's the same protocol in all the various monarchies. There is only one current heir apparent / presumptive to any given throne, all others are merely a number in the line. And in the case of the British throne, that list is LONG - heck, just the other day a pair of twins was added at number 235 and 236 (though being 50/50 Australian, I think they might be more popular down under that most of the people ahead of them ).

During the last thousand years or so there have been various wars lof succession in Europe, when it couldn´t be determined clearly who was going to follow a deceased monarch on the throne.
Even the hundred year war between England and France started as an argument between two branches of the same family about who should succeed a dead king who died without leaving a clear heir.
So societies learned and to prevent such wars from appearing they made clear lists of order of succession.
Obviously today, with the monarchs being just symbolic figureheads, these lists are somehow obsolete. Nobody will go on a war to support one prince or another, but when the monarchs still held real power, it was a different matter.

Jan


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4486 times:

Quoting QANTASFOREVER2 (Reply 7):
Aren't you Monegasque?

I wish... can you imagine... no taxes?
This is left to people with a lot of money (clean or unclean) who get their citizenship by decree directly from the Prince.

I have a French passport. French residents get zero privileges in Monaco. No tax cuts or anything else. Not USA citizens either. That's how it is. The British residents - and Italians - get all the advantages. Go figure...  

Monaco of today with Prince Albert isn't the same as when daddy Rainier was ruling.
http://www.eringer33.com/

Monaco can't do anything without France. So why not have them go back to France? Simple logic.

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4476 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
When it comes to pure weirdness of protocol, I think the British Royals take the cake.

Indeed. I bet there is some protocol for dealing with farting in the presence of royalty.

Unfortunately the current mob doesn't seem to have mastered it:



Seems Her Majesty may have been put off her lunch, but Phil the Greek looks to be quite proud of himself.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 8):
During the last thousand years or so there have been various wars of succession in Europe, when it couldn´t be determined clearly who was going to follow a deceased monarch on the throne.

I suppose they could have just had an election...



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4475 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 8):
Obviously today, with the monarchs being just symbolic figureheads

This is why I don't see the point keeping them... and they cost taxpayers a lot of money.
Civil lists? Do we know how much taxpayers money go to them monarchs/families every year in the UK and elsewhere?

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineoly720man From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 6843 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
Do we know how much taxpayers money go to them monarchs/families every year in the UK and elsewhere?

In the UK it's less than £8million, so pennies per person per year.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 11):
and they cost taxpayers a lot of money.

Compared to the trillion or so GBP to bail out various banks, the Royals are pocket fluff in comparison.



wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
User currently offlineQANTASFOREVER2 From Australia, joined Dec 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4422 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
I wish... can you imagine... no taxes?

I can. I lived in Monaco a few years back and know the situation well. That is one very well looked after group of people. But they'd reject outright any proposal to become a part of France (a country Monaco has never been a part of, of course....Unless you count 20 years after the French revolution.).

On the issue of the House of Grimaldi, for all intents and purposes, Albert is American - and the country is being run Presidential-style. His embrace of a suit and tie at state events is testament to this. He's an executive leader, so it's understandable, if not traditional!

The Monegasque Princely family is one of the few truly distinctive symbols the country has. You can point to them and say - they are Monegasque, something that would be hard to do without them. I shudder to think who many of the 'residents' (yourself excluded) would elect if given the opportunity to vote in a Monegasque republic. Putin?

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 9):
Monaco can't do anything without France. So why not have them go back to France? Simple logic.

Monaco exists to continue an historic legacy but also as a legal and financial anomaly alongside places like Liechtenstein and San Marino. Legal quirks have value. Interesting company, these European microstates.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

Quoting QANTASFOREVER2 (Reply 13):

We are not off topic here as Monaco will have their own royal wedding in July - the Prince is getting married - and protocol is applied though much less complex as with the British royal family.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineQANTASFOREVER2 From Australia, joined Dec 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4401 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 14):
We are not off topic here as Monaco will have their own royal wedding in July

Hopefully it'll be a bit like the good old days in the Principality - with a bit of glamour on the rock, n'est-ce pas?


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11708 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4395 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):

The Queen is still alive and well and I hope she will live until she is 122. I don't want to see Prince Charles becoming King.

Few people do. I personally like the man, but am under no illusions as to what his reign would do for the popularity of the monarchy as a whole. Regardless it is inevitable, but hard to interpret as anything other than a caretaker role in between Elizabeth and William - at least that way he and Kate can have some form of a free life together for a few years. Anyway, I get the feeling that after a few years of being King the novelty would start to wear off for Charles.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4297 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 16):
Regardless it is inevitable,

What are the chances that HRM will abdicate to William, bypassing Charles? Can she direct that William succeed her in some type of will?



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7837 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4268 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
I am not sure if the Japanese Imperial family has much protocol round when they go out in public?

I think you'll find most of the Japanese Royal Family very rarely venture out in public, any time they do it's will be planned done to the last second. They have very little freedom compared to the British Royal Family.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
What are the chances that HRM will abdicate to William, bypassing Charles? Can she direct that William succeed her in some type of will?

Can't happen, Liz can't choose to bypass Chuck and give the crown to Willy. Willy will be king when Chuck dies or if he abducates in favour of Willy.


User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4230 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 6):
I don't want to see Prince Charles becoming King.


Why ever not? He has all the necessary qualifications. He is the eldest son of the reigning monarch; has been invested as Prince of Wales; been trained all his life to take on the roll; he is on the Council of Regency and would likely become Prince Regent if HM were incapacitated. It is only right under the laws at present that he become King on his Mother's demise.

Monarchy is not a popularity contest where we pick the King on the basis of how charming he is or how he looks or whether he has a good sense of style. For all I know Charles may be a cad and a bounder; he may be a selfish egotist and an adulterer but those qualities, so common in the wider population, do not disqualify him from office.

His views on architecture and greenhouse gasses may not meet everyone's approval. He is entitled to his views but as he does not attend debates and vote in the House of Lords those views are his own and have no affect on policy. Once he becomes King he will rule "on the advice of His Ministers" - i.e. he will do as required by the Government of the day for he can only be King "by and with the consent of Parliament".


User currently offlineQANTASFOREVER2 From Australia, joined Dec 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4201 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
What are the chances that HRM will abdicate to William, bypassing Charles? Can she direct that William succeed her in some type of will?

It would require the approval of EVERY commonwealth realm in order for her to do that. That's a group as diverse as Canada, Tuvalu, and Belize. Not going to happen.


User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4191 times:

I waiting for the day when the Brits tell the royal family that this sh*t has gone on for too long and to get their asses out and get a job...... maybe?


/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20345 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4170 times:

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 21):
I waiting for the day when the Brits tell the royal family that this sh*t has gone on for too long and to get their asses out and get a job...... maybe?

Given as how the two princes do have jobs...


User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2764 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4167 times:

Quoting Quokka (Reply 19):
Charles may be a cad and a bounder; he may be a selfish egotist and an adulterer but those qualities, so common in the wider population, do not disqualify him from office.

They would also, if it were necessary, get him elected.



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4142 times:
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Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
What are the chances that HRM will abdicate to William, bypassing Charles? Can she direct that William succeed her in some type of will?

Can't happen. The succession is dictated by act of Parliament - the Act of Succession.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 19):
Why ever not? He has all the necessary qualifications. He is the eldest son of the reigning monarch; has been invested as Prince of Wales; been trained all his life to take on the roll; he is on the Council of Regency and would likely become Prince Regent if HM were incapacitated. It is only right under the laws at present that he become King on his Mother's demise.

  

No one held out much hope for George VI - who stuttered - but he became a good and gracious king.

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 21):
I waiting for the day when the Brits tell the royal family that this sh*t has gone on for too long and to get their asses out and get a job...... maybe?

Hopefully, I won't be around to see that happen. I much prefer that the UK head of state is NOT an elected politician.

President Thatcher? Not for me. President Major? Not for me, President Blair? Not for me.

President Gordon Brown? Tell me you jest.

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 KiwiRob : Why they hardly cost the taxpayer a penny, contrary to what some people here think they are very popular and a British institution. I doubt there is
26 QANTASFOREVER2 : I love that. You're basically saying: "I do not want to be burdened with options". Entirely possible to have an elected figurehead as head of state a
27 CXB77L : Likewise. I'd like a head of state to be above politics. I don't have a high opinion of politicians, whose job it is to win popularity contests and w
28 QANTASFOREVER2 : Not at all true. How often does the Queen's trip to Bristol make headlines. If they say something incredibly stupid or do something incredibly stupid
29 gkirk : Not for much longer if the Tories have their way and cut the RAF Search and Rescue...
30 CXB77L : I guess Prince Harry's frontline service in Afghanistan doesn't count, then .... if it wasn't for some trash magazine breaking the news about Harry i
31 Revelation : Which they acquired using one of the most favored techniques used by organized crime, the protection racket. Get your crew started, fight against the
32 QANTASFOREVER2 : Way to selectively edit. Above that very paragraph, I wrote: "Prince Harry serving in Afghanistan is a military commitment - without argument..." So
33 exFATboy : Most recent figures put the cost of the Royal Family on, if memory serves, around 60 pence a year. Much of the cost associated with the monarchy is u
34 mariner : I take issue with the word "burdened." The succession is known, it isn't a popularity contest. No one votes for the incumbent, so no one is disappoin
35 QANTASFOREVER2 : That's the most ridiculous argument in favour of the monarchy I think I've ever heard. It sounds like something I would say in order to ridicule the
36 mariner : The present system is written in their blood. I see no need to disparage what was fought for for 46 years. No. Just disproving what you claimed. A no
37 QANTASFOREVER2 : To which particular war are you referring? Because the english civil war went on for a fraction of that time. Either way, wars of the past should not
38 mariner : I didn't mention the English Civil War, you did. I talked about the English Revolution. That revolution started in 1642 with the First Civil War and
39 ltbewr : The protocol for the Royal Wedding of Prince William is very specific and based on a long developed script. Some here in the USA see the differences a
40 QANTASFOREVER2 : Mariner, the point of our discussion has become convoluted. Your essay about the English revolution was based on a point that was supposed to substant
41 mariner : If you want to dismiss English history and how we have arrived at the present system, and all the checks and balances therein and complex laws relati
42 Quokka : It sounds almost easy. Firstly, whether the English decide something or not does not mean that the people of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland wan
43 mariner : That's why i have limited myself to about England and the English system. Although there are some who claim that when Prince William becomes king, it
44 QANTASFOREVER2 : I want to do no such thing. I treasure history! I just don't think the bloodshed that led to the establishment of the current system should in and of
45 mariner : I didn't give it as the "major" reason. I gave it as one of the reasons. I thought I had explained that England had had a forty six year revolution t
46 Post contains images CXB77L : Likewise, I have never seen any convincing argument from the republican side as to why the system must change. Since it is the republicans that want
47 Post contains links QANTASFOREVER2 : I'm sorry, but you did. There was no caveat, you stressed blood shed as the reason the monarchy must be continued. To which parliament are you referr
48 KiwiRob : Life in a goldfish bowl, that would be fun, no thanks I'll stick with my current life and mortgage. There was a spare had Andrew died on active servi
49 777236ER : It's bad enough having the royal family in the UK...but to have a bunch of former colonials argue about the vitues of being ruled absolutely by a mona
50 Post contains links mariner : Really, I shrug. It is the starting point, not the end point, just as happened in this thread. Prince Andrew served in the Falkland because the direc
51 KiwiRob : If you could give me a good reason why changing is necessary then I'd happily vote for it, the problem is pre republicans can never come up with a va
52 777236ER : It has nothing to do with me, you can be ruled by whoever you like. It's a bit odd that you like being ruled by a foreigner who lives in another hemi
53 TheCommodore : Bad enough having the royal family ! Come on, if you dislike it so much move to another country where no such system is in place. It could be argued
54 Post contains images ScarletHarlot : I wondered for a sec if QFF2 really was our dear QFF coming back to life...and I see in this thread that it is you! Did you steal Jafa39's Boeing hat
55 Post contains images QANTASFOREVER2 : Well, they have a choice as to whether they live that life or not. And you don't. Doesn't sound fair, does it? No, nor had I forgotten about the lite
56 Post contains images mariner : Why do you think Princess Diana called her sons "the heir and the spare"? LOL. I haven't created it, I'm not that clever. Nor am I the only poster to
57 QANTASFOREVER2 : Making the point that Prince Andrew could serve in the Falklands because he had other younger siblings is not something I've heard of outside of this
58 mariner : Why is this so difficult for you? It doesn't just apply to Prince Andrew. Prince Henry and Prince George, brothers of Prince Albert (King of George V
59 QANTASFOREVER2 : I didn't say you had, I said that you created the motive behind allowing Prince Harry's deployment, and then for his removal. I still argue that he w
60 QANTASFOREVER2 : P.S. I'm listening.
61 KiwiRob : Well two members did quit, the Diann and Fergie, both lived and one still does live her life in a goldfish bowl, King Edward abducated in favour of h
62 mariner : I don't know how I can make the point any clearer than I have. As long as Prince Harry was anonymous the risk was manageable, he was just another sol
63 Post contains images CXB77L : Exactly. Changing from the current system to a republican model is a major change in the system of government, and I have yet to be convinced that th
64 QANTASFOREVER2 : But it wasn't political - it was a security matter! You see, I absolutely agree with everything you say! But the point that kick-started all of this
65 mariner : I'll try again. Just as with Prince Harry, the removal of AC2 Shaw from Waziristan was a political act. If his cover had not been blown by the press,
66 CXB77L : If you're referring to the Governor-General's power to dissolve parliament, then yes, it has happened - once, in the Constitution's 110 year history,
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