Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Running A Car On Vegetable Oil!  
User currently offlinerichm From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 803 posts, RR: 7
Posted (3 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 2177 times:

So with diesel fuel at £1.30 ($2.1 USD) a litre here, I've decided to try and save myself some money by running my diesel engined car on part SVO/vegetable oil, mixed with diesel in the same fuel tank.

The car seems more responsive now and as of yet, I haven't had any problems aside from the fact that I keep getting strange looks from people who see me pouring vegetable oil into my car while at my local supermarket car park. Oh, and the remarks from the cashiers who find it rather odd when I go to pay for 20+ litres of vegetable oil. "You must do a lot of cooking  " - I've heard that one more than a few times now! That said though, I've read many horror stories about it online. However many of those stories come from those who have "heard" things about it, as opposed to actually experiencing the problem themselves. Has anyone else tried doing this? If so, how did it go?

Cheers

Rich

[Edited 2011-01-27 07:49:18]

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

I've always wanted to try that myself. I've read that in older VW TDIs you can dump the veg straight in (after filtering it) with no modifications to the fuel system needed (maybe a heater if you live in colder areas). I dunno what the regulations are in the UK but here in the states there's guys that pick up barrels-worth of used deep frying oil from restaurants, and they get to drive their cars basically for free. The restaurants dispose of the oil either way, and you get free fuel, its a win-win situation.

Is it true your car's exhaust smells like McDonalds french fries? Big grin

[Edited 2011-01-27 07:51:20]

User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14078 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 18 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

First, this only works with older diesel engines (modern, electronically controlled engines need fuel of very tight specs).
Secondly, depending on the climate you are operating in you´ll need to preheat the vegetable oil to get it to a lower viscosity, which the engine fuel feed pump and injection pump can handle (this is typically done using a heat exchanger coupled to the engine cooling system, which brings the oil to a temperature of about 60° C). I once broke the feed pump on my Landrover Defender after I filled up with raw rape seed oil in late November. You´ll also need a fine fuel filter for the vegetable oil.
Also, different vegetable oils have different properties. Those with unsaturated fatty acids tend to oxidise and to gum up (linseed oil is very well known for this).
A common practice is to have two tanks in the car, a small one for conventional diesel and another, larger, one for the vegetable oil. The vegetable oil tank gets equipped with a seperate electric feed pump and a larger diameter fuel line (due to the higher viscosity of the cold oil) to the heat exchanger. Then there has to be a changeover valve installed between the heat exchanger and the engine feed pump.
You´ll start the car on conventional diesel, let it run warm and then switch over to the veg oil tank for the largest part of the trip. About ten km before you reach your destination you´ll switch back to normal diesel again to flush the injection system for the next start.

Here in Germany we can get raw rape seed oil at low price (and properly taxed) at farm supply stores. I cannot use cooking oil legally, because it is sold with a reduced VAT for foodstuffs.

I understand that your use of cooking oil in your car is illegal in the UK due to taxation issues and that Her Majesty´s government fdrowns upon such abuse.

Jan


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 2096 times:

Quoting richm (Thread starter):
I keep getting strange looks from people who see me pouring vegetable oil into my car while at my local supermarket car park.

I wouldn't do that because.....

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 2):
I understand that your use of cooking oil in your car is illegal in the UK due to taxation issues and that Her Majesty´s government fdrowns upon such abuse.

.....I believe this to be correct.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinerichm From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 803 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2010 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 2):
I understand that your use of cooking oil in your car is illegal in the UK due to taxation issues and that Her Majesty´s government fdrowns upon such abuse.

They changed the law a few years ago. People don't have to pay duty on it here in the UK unless they use more than a certain quantity a year. (2500 litres afaik)


User currently offlineidealstandard From France, joined Apr 2009, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1995 times:

Quoting richm (Reply 4):
They changed the law a few years ago. People don't have to pay duty on it here in the UK unless they use more than a certain quantity a year. (2500 litres afaik)

   Correct.

My stepdad runs his Xantia TD on veg. We buy it in 50 litre drums from wholesalers.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting richm (Reply 4):
They changed the law a few years ago. People don't have to pay duty on it here in the UK unless they use more than a certain quantity a year. (2500 litres afaik)

I have duly eaten my words.

Quote:

4.2.1 Exempt producers/users

If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:

* any biofuel, or
* any other fuel substitute or additive

within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty. However, there are simple record keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.

Production includes the manufacture or processing of road fuel, and the setting aside of any product that has not been charged with duty, with the intention of using it as road fuel.
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...5&propertyType=document#P160_15306



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1969 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1):
Is it true your car's exhaust smells like McDonalds french fries?

Actually yes! My friend has an old Excursion modified to burn veg.



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6127 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1949 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

A good buddy of mine, Marty, makes biodiesel out of used vegetable oil. He "brews" his fuel in a 220 volt water heater. Marty began brewing biodiesel 8 years ago and has become very good at it and brews very good fuel. It took him a year or so to get his formula down. Some people like to go the SVO route, but that requires modification of the car, the stuff he brews requires no modification, but it requires a great deal of time to make. I have seen cars that ran SVO and have destroyed rings and injectors.

Marty burns his fuel in a 1985 Mercedes-Benz 300SD, 1991 Dodge Ram 2500 and a 1997 Saturn with a Cummins 1.3 Liter 3 cylinder diesel (a true one of a kind he built). Marty also runs his boat on his fuel, which he outfitted with a 3 liter I-5 from a 79 Mercedes-300SD.

Marty used to work for a small high school and ran three school buses exclusively on his biodiesel. The oil came from a chip manufacturer in Detroit. As far as cold weather goes; Marty runs about 80% Biodiesel in temperatures below freezing.

Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 7):
Actually yes! My friend has an old Excursion modified to burn veg.


Not only fries, but whatever was being cooked in the oil. Since my buddy Marty makes his fuel out of oil used from the chip making process, his exhaust smells like chips. He also has used oil from fish places and the exhaust smelled like fish.

The quality of the oil directly relates to the quality of the fuel. A lot of bars fry a lot of stuff in their oil before they change it and that oil is full of crap. The better oils come from places that fry vegetables and fish and change their oil often.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 2):
I understand that your use of cooking oil in your car is illegal in the UK due to taxation issues and that Her Majesty´s government fdrowns upon such abuse.



Another example of government abuse of power. When they can't figure out how to tax something they just make it illegal. When a person can get around using gasoline or diesel he should not be penalized for being creative.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26605 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1926 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1):
here in the states there's guys that pick up barrels-worth of used deep frying oil from restaurants, and they get to drive their cars basically for free. The restaurants dispose of the oil either way, and you get free fuel, its a win-win situation.

In fact, restaurants have to pay to dispose of oil, so they get a benefit.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1):

Is it true your car's exhaust smells like McDonalds french fries?

Sort of. It basically smells like you are deep frying something.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 2):


First, this only works with older diesel engines (modern, electronically controlled engines need fuel of very tight specs).

Uses modern diesel engines and is known to pull over to Chinese restaurants and strain the used oil through a pair of jeans.

http://www.hlineconversion.com/

Quoting falstaff (Reply 8):
I have seen cars that ran SVO and have destroyed rings and injectors.

There are inexpensive replacement ring/seal kits out there that work better with SVO.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1920 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 8):
He "brews" his fuel in a 220 volt water heater.

Hmmm. Is his fuel still cheaper to make than real diesel once you figure in electricity costs?


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
Hmmm. Is his fuel still cheaper to make than real diesel once you figure in electricity costs?

One has to wonder. Here in the UK, there would be no question - our duty rates are massively punitive.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26605 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

Incidentally, aren't all these new "advanced" diesels coming from the factory as bio-diesel ready?

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):

Hmmm. Is his fuel still cheaper to make than real diesel once you figure in electricity costs?

Almost certainly. The electricity costs are likely only a few cents a gallon, if that.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6127 posts, RR: 29
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1846 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
There are inexpensive replacement ring/seal kits out there that work better with SVO.


But you are still taking the engine apart, the parts may be cheap, but unless you do it yourself the labor cost is going to be high.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
Is his fuel still cheaper to make than real diesel once you figure in electricity costs?


The fuel costs about 47 cents a gallon to manufacture. Running a 220 water heater isn't all that costly. A lot of people are running one all day to heat their water. Of course some people have gas water heaters. You could brew in a gas water heater too, but then would have to run a gas line to their brewing station.

Here is a picture of Marty (left) and me (right) eight years ago when we sat the biodiesel brewing station up, just after the first batch was made. The water heater is the same, but today he has added a cone bottom tank to the mix. I sold Marty my 72 Mercedes-Benz 220D and he got this idea to brew fuel. I never really got into it, but I helped him set it up.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb309/NWA747/MartyandBryan.jpg

Here is a shot of his boat that he runs on biodiesel and the 79 300SD engine in it. The boat originaly had a GM 4.3 liter V-6.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb309/NWA747/R1-19.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb309/NWA747/R1-9.jpg



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinesignol From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2007, 3017 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1741 times:

I thought they did this on Top Gear some time ago...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOFbsaNeZps

signol



Flights booked: none :(
User currently offlineual757 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 806 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1733 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 2):
I filled up with raw rape seed oil

Funny what happens when you forget a letter  


User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1695 times:

Nothing new here, John Diesel the inventor of the engine that bears his name originally built it to run on peanut oil.


I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14078 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1687 times:

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 16):
Nothing new here, John Diesel the inventor of the engine that bears his name originally built it to run on peanut oil.

The guy´s name was actually Rudolf Diesel. While having been born in Paris to German immigrant parents, he did his work later in the Bavarian town of Augsburg (where the truck and engine manufacturer Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg with it´s logo MAN still exists today).

Jan


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6127 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1640 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 17):
The guy´s name was actually Rudolf Diesel.

That is correct. I have a 1970s filmstrip about him and his engine.

According to the film; his first design was made to burn coal dust. The engine didn't have a cooling system and it didn't work very well.

[Edited 2011-02-02 08:18:54]


My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineaer lingus From Ireland, joined Mar 2001, 529 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1611 times:

I run my car with various mixture of oils for four years on my HDi engine without modifications and I had no problems at all. But I only use vegetable oil mixtures during warmer months because I don't want to risk frozen fuel during colder months. I only use a small percentage of the mixture because I don't want to kill the fuel pump and the car not starting.
Below is all the various mixtures that I've used.
95% diesel/5% vegetable oil
90% diesel/10% vegetable oil
80% diesel/15% vegetable oil/5% unleaded petrol
80% diesel/10% vegetable oil/10% unleaded petrol
70% diesel/30% bio diesel
70% diesel/30% vegetable oil (runs well on hot days only, otherwise the car will be slow)
70% diesel/15% vegetable oil/15% unleaded petrol
50% diesel/50% bio diesel (higher fuel burn and less power)
While I don't have the perfect mixture formula and none of the above fuel mixture balances, they all worked fine apart from the two with higher % mixtures which has some performance issues.
I hope the above information would somehow be helpful to you.

  



Split Scimitar or Sharklets?
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Anyone Here Running Vista On A Mac? posted Fri May 25 2007 15:50:02 by Flynavy
Kaz Takes Her Car In For A Oil Change... posted Mon Oct 30 2006 09:02:01 by AAFLT1871
Running Windows On A Mac posted Sun Oct 15 2006 22:15:24 by Alias1024
3 Year Old Buys Car On Ebay posted Tue Sep 26 2006 14:12:48 by Kieron747
Would You Transport Your New Car On This? posted Fri Sep 15 2006 21:24:37 by Alberchico
Awesome Car On Ebay! posted Thu Jun 1 2006 17:03:51 by Dc10s4ever
Temperature Inside A Car On A Hot Day posted Thu May 4 2006 16:40:07 by 2H4
Survey: ESP/DSC In Your Car - On Or Off? posted Thu May 4 2006 02:04:50 by Sabena332
Exxon: America Will Always Rely On Importing Oil! posted Wed Feb 8 2006 04:54:25 by NWDC10
New Hybrid Car Law - Combat Oil Companies? posted Tue Sep 27 2005 15:23:49 by 'Longreach'