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Why Is Argentina Never Given The Benefit?  
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

disclaimer: I will be quoting some forum members. Do not take it personally, I'm only trying to show a pattern here that is somewhat widespread and not reflective of any individual alone.

I open this topic because over the last ten years I have noticed in conversations, forums online (including this one), and in a few other situations, that Argentines always have to be on the defensive from invective directed at us. What do I mean by this. Let me put forth several examples which prove the pattern:


- - - - - - - - -

example a: A topic about Nazism is brought up.

Inevitably, there will be several comments to the tune: ''Maybe Argentina can give them a new home'' or...

''The most-wanted Nazi criminal apparently has been spotted in Argentina last week (some south American countries still haven´t learnt).''
Nazi Criminal Spotted In Argentina (by NA Jul 18 2008 in Non Aviation)?threadid=1943876&searchid=1945965&s=nazi+argentina#ID1945965

Another example

"Despite the numbers of Jews in argentina, the country has a poor track record of coming to their aid. Between the two stories you cite above and their harboring of nazi war criminals, argentina could do much better."

12 Years On: July 18th, 1994 (by MD11junkie Jul 18 2006 in Non Aviation)?
threadid=1301423&searchid=1301453&s=nazi+argentina#ID1301453

Or out of the blue in completely out of topic comments:

''Definately tolerant, they allowed anyone who used to be a Nazi to set up shop escaping the Nuremberg trials.''

Argentina Gaining As World's Most Tolerant Nation (by Derico Aug 15 2005 in Non Aviation)?threadid=906019&searchid=906494&s=nazi+argentina#ID906494

It's always Argentina the one that is ''critiqued'', never other South American countries. Furthermore, how about the USA or Canada? Didn't they turn back a ship full of Jewish refugees? Hasn't there been plenty of anti-semetic groups, militias and hate groups? Didn't the USA government welcome hundreds of nazis to their rank and file... in fact one could argue that the moon landings were largely possible due to Nazi investments in rocketry.

And if you do criticize, then you are anti-this and anti-that. But to freely tell the truth about Argentina's history, OK...

But somehow the USA, and other South American countries are always ''good'' wih the Nazi question and we are shady or anti-semitic (the only country with Kosher McDonalds outside Israel).

- - - - - -

example b: The Falklands and British-Argentine conflicts in the past

Well obviously here, having been the agressors, there is much to criticize. However, let's look at some examples.

"We did no such thing - we just took them, like lots of people used to take lots of land. It is ancient history now - they are ours. If huge sections of the Argentinian population are ready to get out of Argentina and return to their roots, and give their land back to indigenous peoples, then I might start taking their bleatings seriously."

Argentina Gathers Falklands Support (by RussianJet Feb 23 2010 in Non Aviation)?threadid=2191530&searchid=2193106&s=falklands+argentina#ID2193106

So you would assume absolutely no one would be able to take any country in the Western Hemisphere seriously then? I've have seen these comments time and again, that Argentina is somehow hypocritical or even ''evil'' in other comments for it's immigrant and indian policy. Of course the natural answer any argentine would give to another new world citizen or a European whose country was a colonial tyrant is ''look in the mirror''... but if we do that, then we prove our agressiveness.

So we either lose, or we lose. Same thread:

"What the hell is your problem? Why do you hate the EU that much anyway? What did the EU do to you except offend you with its existence?"

This was after I commented that it is possible the European countries also drum up foreign endeavors to rally morale in tough times. This was greeted with disdain from Europeans who said that is impossible. But immediately turned around and acussed Argentina of the exact same when the issue of the Falkand's possible oil was discussed. Basically the equation was ''we don't do that'' but ''you did and we can accuse you of it, but you can't accuse back otherwise you are delirious''.

The insinuation being someone from the third world cannot critique the first, but the other way around is valid. It's a game of ''you have problems so you can't comment on ours... But if we want we can start a thread or comment criticizing you...''... Like that thread.

When I go and answer back, I'm the one who's a bit unreasonable.

There have been dozens of Falklands threads, in which Argentine bashing is rife and expected of course, FAR MORE than you see even the Chinese, or Russians or anyother larger country with more of an effect on 20th century history. You don't here anyone say ''bomb them to the stone age'' or ''you are a failure of a people'', or make derisive racist comments. But when Argentina comes up, it's fair game:

Argentina And Las Malvinas (by Cedars747 Nov 7 2006 in Non Aviation)?threadid=1426621&searchid=1427869&s=argentina+belgrano#ID1427869

So I won't put anymore examples since they are all in the archives for you to see. The sample above is archtypical.

The other interesting thing is that people seem to display more antagonism at Argentina than they would of Spain and Gibraltar, or the Germans, or Russians. It seems those countries are forgiven but Argentines are always crucified with the Falklands, we never get be liberated from the issue.

sidenote: If an Argentine mentiones the drubbing of the British army in the early 1800s, he is told that was ancient history (or that it was the Spanish, when of course it was a milicia that defeated the Brits). Yet, you still see Americans celebrating their victories in their Revolutionary war and no one tells them it's old news... Or the Brits celebrating Trafalgar or the defeat of the Armada. The Spanish still celebrate the Reconquista, heck the Germans celebrate the Black Forest battle and the Italians Roman battles.

But us Argentines, no were ''spanked'' by the British in 82 and that's all the counts. We are not allowed to celebrate our own victories. Anyway...

- - - - - - - -

example c: but even when the issue is not Nazis or the Falklands...

It seem to have been removed, but a few years ago a poster named ANCflyer (otherwise a good guy), entered a thread that someone else had opened about the day of Argentina's independence and his comment was not to wish a happy day but to comment on the sinking of the Belgrano Cruiser. Now he later did apologize, and in fact such comments are commonplace so he is hardly the only one...

But when other country's days are celebrated, you don't see ONE negative comment.

- - - - - -

example d: this one is more restricted to Latin America... but Argentines are quickly accused of being ''racist'' if a comment is taken the wrong way by another Latin American. You see this in virtually every country from Mexico down. Also, while every country in Latin America can show their ''cultural pride'', if Argentines do it, some see it as ''dangerous'', specially when the flag is waved or too many are gathered in one place ''there go those argies, they think they are all that''. There are always sectors that take it the wrong way or assign it ulterior motives.

- - - - - -

example e: Argentina is sometimes accused of cheating in football. Maradona's hand of God. Yet you can't criticize other countries for the same... examples like the 1966 Final where Germany was clearly cheated. Or 2006 where Germany's goalkeeper had an actual cheetsheat with the style of kicking of Argentine penatly scorers. Or how about the Italians diving machine? Or how the Brazilians get the benefit of the call from every referee in world cups?

Somehow those are not cheating, but Argentina is fair game...

- - - - - - -

example f: Argentina's major dictatorship was from 1976 to 1983. There were much longer dictatorships in Chile, Brazil, Uruguay, Bolivia, Paraguay... Yet it is always the Argentine dictatorship that is most mentioned (though in this case Chile's Pinochet is just about an equal), not the Brazilians, not the Paraguayans, not others. Yet Pinochet ruled from 1973 to 1990.

So overall, Argentina has been a democracy longer than most nations, yet we are always canned as dictatorial or the country of the ''Junta''. Which again, given the timescales of the actual duration of the dictatorships, is a blatantly unfair statement.

Yet everyone is fine with that and if an Argentine dares to challenge it with the actual facts, he is living in a dreamworld, lying, or ignrorant.

- - - - - - -


I think the pattern is clear: Everytime a thread *in this website or other) about Argentina's problems or questionable policy surface, you see a barage of negative comments, some outright insulting and degrading by people from many corners of the world If a good thread is opened about something good of Argentina (yes, we actually can have good things in spite the prevailing thought that everything is bad), then you still see some people making ugly comments or bringing up things that had nothing to do with the thread (usually, Falklands/Nazis/Maradona/military juntas/or miscellaneous).

I really hope to comprehend why these latent antagonistic feelings about us exist. Please don't tell me otherwise. I have seen it enough. When has there been a positive thread about Argentina here? It's always been negative. And the rare times a good one is put up (usually by myself or some other native), some people go in to derail the good vibe.

What do you think of Argentina? Why do you think people only focus or mention us on the bad events and never on the good ones? Why do an interesting number of people have to make really nasty comments, beyond what you usually see of countries outside the superpowers?

I want to understand why we are always put down for our bad traits or history, but never given any benefit for anything else. Thank you for your time.



[Edited 2011-01-28 11:56:50]


My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

Quoting Derico (Thread starter):

I want to understand why we are always put down for our bad traits or history, but never given any benefit for anything else. Thank you for your time.

Dude, seriously, Argentina is far from being the only country getting an unjustified bashing here.

Take Mexico for example. People here are always bashing the country for being a "3rd world wasteland stricken with poverty, disease, famine, and more dangerous than Iraq and Afghanistan combined"            That of course couldn't be farther from the truth.

As they say, you can cure ignorance, but you can't cure stupidity.   


User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

But Fly2HMO, the current spike in Mexican fearphobia is because of the stupid cartels. Before that I almost never saw a thread about violence in Mexico, ever. Also you have to admit, that there are millions of Mexicans living in the USA and there has always been a border history between the two countries. Given the number of US posters and what I mentioned above, it's somewhat expected even as I'm not saying all of it is justified. It's a long border, a centuries old history and both countries are tied to the hip.

With Argentina is different. Look at the dates, it's always happened, and it happens in Spanish language forums too. Argentines are quickly deemed racist if a comment is not a complement. Yet a a same identical comment by someone else about Argentina is not racist at all. Events that occurred decades ago still provoke quite nasty reactions. And overall, it is Argentines always at fault, yet the same things happen in the countries of those that post the comments and somehow there it was OK (to have Nazis, to wage war, to cheat in football   ) etc.

Again, the point here is that people seem eager to very quickly bash us, for recent or historical actions.

When a Falklands, a Nazi a military junta or other such thread is opened here, it is quickly replied too and tends to go over 100 sometimes even 200 comments.

Yet here people have the opportunity to explain themselves and their feelings and so far it's a slow start, when I know many of those posters that have made such comments are still here and post on a routine basis. Of course I will wait a couple more days, but I'm just saying.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlinebhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1009 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

I don't understand your point. If you are keeping score on which nation has/is getting bashed the most...try using the USA in your research next time.....one would begin to think the US cannot do anything right, but it is a big world, SOMEBODY is going to get pissed about something...."But fankly my dear......"


Carpe Pices
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2063 times:

No, If you read carefully I'm keeping tabs on the ration of bashing to complementing.

The USA is the most criticized but also one of the most praised. Same with several other countries. In fact Mexico is bashed more in recent times, but many also ADORE and love Mexico and it's culture, etc.

My point is everytime a thread here or anywhere surfaces about Argentina, there is invective thrown. We are admonished for our shortcommings by people in countries that made the same mistakes, yet if I point it out I'm an anti. Let me elaborate:

Comment 42:

"You tell about "first time better than economic break even in 100 years". That is really great! Keep going! But remember, dear Derico, there is still a long, long way to go to catch up on the previous 99 years. The last thing you need is another 1982-disaster."

Argentina And Las Malvinas (by Cedars747 Nov 7 2006 in Non Aviation)

This poster Prebennorholm, is saying that we were an economic failure for 100 years. Yet somehow that economic failure was from about 1880 to 1955 generally richer than Denmark, Scandinavia, Germany, Southern Europe and I think France too... only the UK was consistently wealthier. So what is he talking about exactly?

Nations have good and bad times in long cycles. Northern Europe overtook Argentina in the 1950s, southern Europe in the 1970s. They had good policies, we had bad ones.

But when economic issues are discussed, somehow we are a failure, no one ever mentions the entire history.

I could well say ''Argentina in 100 years did more than Europe in 3000 to lift it's people out of misery''', if we were in the year 1910... The point is he wasn't correct, and also that what goes around comes around. Who knows, maybe Europe and the USA are in a long term wealth decline now (debt, population aging, etc) and Argentina will surpass many of them again? So because of that Europe's successes should be thrown out??

Just an example of history positive to Argentina being totally ignored, for the sake of a grand generalization border line aloof comment, when the history does not merit this poster (otherwise from what I have read of him a polite person), to say it.

[Edited 2011-01-28 12:46:02]


My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlinebaguy From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 546 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2043 times:

Quoting Derico (Thread starter):
The other interesting thing is that people seem to display more antagonism at Argentina than they would of Spain and Gibraltar, or the Germans, or Russians. It seems those countries are forgiven but Argentines are always crucified with the Falklands, we never get be liberated from the issue.

Forgive me, but perhaps this is because the Falklands involved a full scale military conflict less than 30 years ago. The last major military conflict to do with Gibraltar was in 1779 - not to mention the fact that there was a referendum in Gibraltar to decide whether to return to Spain, but there was an overwhelming majority in favour of retaining British Sovereignty - in the case of the Falklands the Argentinians just invade in the hope of winning it back.

My 2c,

BAguy


User currently offlineyowza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4902 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2043 times:

Quoting Derico (Thread starter):
examples

I wouldn't get too worked up over what you see on a.net. The internet is rife with people that take small tidbits and extrapolate them to ridiculous conclusions. The conclusions then get taken, by some, as gospel and perpetuated on forums where the stupidity/misinformation originated. It then snowballs.

Some things to consider:
- most people on this forum haven't been to Argentina and know very little about the country
- other countries, including the US and more recently Canada take a veritable shit-kicking on this forum daily

A look on the positive side: Even though our various Argentine members don't always agree on everything, you always seem to be able to find a middle ground, something Canadian and US member don't seem to be able to do. To me that is something far more important and valuable and worth talking about that nonsensical snipes like the ones you have highlighted.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2034 times:

Quoting baguy (Reply 5):

Forgive me, but perhaps this is because the Falklands involved a full scale military conflict less than 30 years ago. The last major military conflict to do with Gibraltar was in 1779 - not to mention the fact that there was a referendum in Gibraltar to decide whether to return to Spain, but there was an overwhelming majority in favour of retaining British Sovereignty - in the case of the Falklands the Argentinians just invade in the hope of winning it back.

But extending this further out, shoudn't we have those same reactions too? Yet most argentines on this board never have hurled lava at the UK. The otherway around is very common, in fact actually in many cases from non-UK posters, Americans in particular. What's the beef there? Those are things I don't get and would like to know what provokes it.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2027 times:

Quoting yowza (Reply 6):
most people on this forum haven't been to Argentina and know very little about the country

Yet when a topic comes up PLENTY of people answer. In fact many talk about the juntas, Peron, our economic history, the Kirchners, Maradona... So they seem to know very little about a lot! So I can't buy that completely, that there is ignorance involved, because many of the comments seem well thought out and provide historical references even if they are completely wrong in the details or other.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2012 times:

Quoting Derico (Thread starter):
Furthermore, how about the USA or Canada? Didn't they turn back a ship full of Jewish refugees? Hasn't there been plenty of anti-semetic groups, militias and hate groups? Didn't the USA government welcome hundreds of nazis to their rank and file... in fact one could argue that the moon landings were largely possible due to Nazi investments in rocketry.

You are so right.
The nazi's could not have succeeded without the help from I.B.M.
Most of the worst anti-semitism we have ever witnessed in the U.S. came from Henry Ford, who in the 1920's and 1930's owned a newspaper called the Dearborn Independent. Both Henry Ford and his editor were vicious nazi sympathizers. For years they printed horrible anti-semetic articles. Too many people in the U.S. at that time that had never met anyone Jewish and it created an atmosphere of hatred. To this day there are many people especially in the "heartland" of the U.S. that are anti-semetic, yet if you ask people, most have never met a Jewish person in their life. All Ford dealerships were instructed by Henry Ford himself to provide copies of the Dearborn Independent with all vehicle sales. Most dealers would just buy them and throw them away out of embarrassment.

I think is was very telling that the only painting on Hitler's wall when he was in Munich in the 1920's was Henry Ford.
The U.S. government was also aware of Ford's overseas sales right on into WWII. Hundreds of tractors and trucks made their way into the nazi's war machine.

To this day most Jewish people old enough to remember the stories passed-down about Ford would NEVER buy a Ford product. The Jews of that generation certainly stopped buying them and when someone at Ford finally showed old Henry how much money he was loosing he suddenly changed his mind. Between that and all the civil lawsuits he was facing by then, he up and sold the paper and fired the staff.

The U.S. Government most certainly did turn it's back and allow many nazi's to move here. Many times the government helped them to cover-up their tracks as long as they would do something constructive to help our Government. The Government paid for their every need to get them moved-in.

None of this is a secret------it's just that our Government does not wish to remind the citizens of this stuff. It being so long ago and all----they would prefer to sweep it under the rug.

BTW, don't get too upset about the opinions of people on this forum. It's not like there are millions of people involved.
There are always a HAND-FULL of people who won't have a kind word to say about anyone or anything. Try not to let it get to you. This web-site should be a fun place, not a nasty place. There are about a dozen or so vicious anti-semites on the site, however the vast majority of people on this site are good people. I don't mind confronting the anti-semites one bit-----but, I don't loose any sleep over them either. Everybody has a right to their opinion---even if they are nobodies.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7652 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1984 times:

You guys play a decent game of rugby, you'll get better too with the Pumas joining the Tri-Nations (Four Nations) tournament in 2012.

User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1980 times:

Thanks for that. I just want to drive the point this is not a tit for tat. Argentina did a real wrong in providing refuge to genocidals, but throughout the years it seems Argentina is singled out, yet many other countries did the exact same thing. Argentina did not turn away Jewish emigrants in the 1930s and 1940s.

And that's the point, why are we derided but others are not?

I understand that there is a silent majority, as in everything. However, this is a thread years in the making, I have wanted to bring this issue up for a long time. Look at the threads in my OP. The comments in many cases are by otherwise completely rational and amicable, reasonable posters. Yet when commenting about something to do with Argentina, their writing gets significantly more sting to it. You can tell.

And again, people seem eager to quickly jump to our flaws and at the same time overlooking their own, but more importantly, ignoring positive elements of our history or whatever the topic maybe about.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1968 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 10):
You guys play a decent game of rugby, you'll get better too with the Pumas joining the Tri-Nations (Four Nations) tournament in 2012.

Overwhelmingly, Southern Hemisphere cousins (OZ, SA, NZ, Chile, BRA), are far more fair minded and I have seen that too. Perhaps the sporting relationships help. We better get far more impressive to compete with you guys in the 4N, SANZAR being th best rugby on the planet. But that's another matter...

[Edited 2011-01-29 12:49:54 by srbmod]


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User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1955 times:

Prime example: If I make a comment criticizing his country, I'm an anti or intolerant or jealous, but he or any other person complaining about my comments is not insecure.

If I open a topic like this, then I'm insecure.

You've been here for ''almost'' as long... tell me how MANY threads about ''what do you think about fill in the blank for a country'' have there been here over the years? How many US or EU ''what does one think of the other'' threads?? If you apply the lofty standard you applied to me... then your compatriots and Europeans are more sensitive than, well.... certain priest confronted with a choir.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1936 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 4):
This poster Prebennorholm, is saying that we were an economic failure for 100 years. Yet somehow that economic failure was from about 1880 to 1955 generally richer than Denmark, Scandinavia, Germany, Southern Europe and I think France too... only the UK was consistently wealthier. So what is he talking about exactly?

Derico, perhaps you should take more things with a grain of salt and consider the sources.

Last weekend, this guy you're quoting tried to tell us that fuel hedging by airlines was nothing other than a dangerous game of gambling on a grand scale, and had no worthwhile attributes, when in truth it's nothing like that when used as a proper financial planning and risk aversion tool. So I wouldn't exactly take anything he says on economic matters very seriously.

I don't recall anything overwhelmingly negative posted here over the years about Argentina that doesn't have an equal regarding other countries. You will always find ignorant, ill-informed people with a keyboard and internet account. Doesn't mean you have to take any of them seriously.

Perhaps it's time to view some of those posts you've quoted from a different perspective, once you've stood up and gotten some fresh air, maybe grabbed a steak with a good bottle of Malbec too. If that doesn't work, there's always Valium.  



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1930 times:

You all make fair points, but this is not even an issue about this website. It's across to others, in other languages too.

That's the reason I for years did not open such a thread, I didn't want to legitimize heat of the moment statemens or ill informed ones. However, again it seems odd that people that seem to know enough about the down moments of Argentina's history or the mishaps of it's society, apparently know nothing about less negative aspects. Given their statements about the bad things, that is hard to believe because it requires some level of informing oneself. And in many cases they look as if they carefully omit or sidestep anything remotely positive.

The Nazi question is prime for that. Yes Argentina harbored Nazis and it will be forever in our shame. It also took in a few hundred thousand Jewish immigrants... that is always ommited for some reason.

[Edited 2011-01-28 14:44:14]


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User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1909 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 16):
However, again it seems odd that people that seem to know enough about the down moments of Argentina's history or the mishaps of it's society, apparently know nothing about less negative aspects.

Perhaps your issue should be with Andrew Lloyd Webber, then. I'd gather that most people only know something about Argentina's history by way of Evita.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1905 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17):
Perhaps your issue should be with Andrew Lloyd Webber, then. I'd gather that most people only know something about Argentina's history by way of Evita.

No not at all. I really never seen the play anyway. But I don't think they talk much about Galtieri, the Jewish community in Argentina, the 2001 crisis, the Kirchners or Argentina's dubitable football moments...

In fact Evita and Peron are amongst the least discussed here or in other forums.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineAF340 From Canada, joined Jul 2007, 2786 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1893 times:

I love your beef. And my wallet is made from Argentinian leather. Oh, and its the country I would like visit most in South America.

Those are really my only comments on Argentina. Sure there was the Falklands, but let's let bygones be bygones. The whole Nazi thing -- we turned away the SS St. Louis as well. Nobody's perfect, I suppose Argentina tends not to come up in conversation very often and when it does it tends to be about the two subjects above.

I like how you are very passionate about your country, just don't take what people say on here too heavily.


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1886 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 16):
it seems odd that people that seem to know enough about the down moments

You will notice that there are a lot of people who want to be "experts" about countries they have never stepped foot in.
Ignore.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1880 times:

Quoting AF340 (Reply 19):
Those are really my only comments on Argentina. Sure there was the Falklands, but let's let bygones be bygones. The whole Nazi thing -- we turned away the SS St. Louis as well. Nobody's perfect, I suppose Argentina tends not to come up in conversation very often and when it does it tends to be about the two subjects above.

You are getting it. It's a matter of quantity and quality. The USA is brought up every day for obvious reasons, so you expect plenty of cheap shots. Canada or Argentina not so much... but Imagine if it was it was always about the Saint Louis, or about clubbing seals?? Which I'm sure does frustrate sometimes.

But Canada is also brought up for it's hockey, for it's pluralism and the like. Point is people seem to look past the past, to pun a pun, but seem to be stuck in a time loop with Argentina.

We all still must love nazis, we all still are warmongers who want to invade the Falklands, we still are ruled with dictators that only have propaganda in mind, we stilll are mired in some sort of economic crisis like a decade ago, we all must love Maradona. It seems people remain stuck in those bad moments when it comes to my country.

[Edited 2011-01-28 15:14:18]

[Edited 2011-01-28 15:14:48]


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User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1880 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 17):
Perhaps your issue should be with Andrew Lloyd Webber, then. I'd gather that most people only know something about Argentina's history by way of Evita.

  

I can't wait to view Madonna's body in the glass coffin in Buenos Aires!  



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20783 posts, RR: 62
Reply 22, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1864 times:

Quoting Derico (Reply 21):
We all still must love nazis, we all still are warmongers who want to invade the Falklands, we still are ruled with dictators that only have propaganda in mind, we stilll are mired in some sort of economic crisis like a decade ago, we all must love Maradona. It seems people remain stuck in those bad moments when it comes to my country.

Wow, that's a pretty broad brush to paint the rest of us with. That's not anything near my view of Argentina at all.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinewingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2315 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1850 times:

I think the main problems people have with Argentina are the food and lack of culture. The steaks and empanadas are terrible! All that corn fed steroid nonsense. And then the low quality wine which doesn't help at all. You could always help the situation if your country had music and dance, hell, maybe even a few famous writers. But it's an epic failure on all counts on top of being 12 hours by plane from anywhere important. This is why most Argies move to the US, where natural beef, real wine and serious culture are in plentiful supply. I wish we had the same in France!

User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4313 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (3 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

Quoting wingman (Reply 25):
And then the low quality wine which

You are French, I can accept that from you, and maybe the Barolo growers.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
25 AeroWesty : Derico, I really hope you take this with the intent it's meant, which is in a positive way to help change your mind about a few things. Do you realiz
26 Derico : Aero you and the others are hung up on my thinking you are thinking about my country all the time? I think I know that we are a rather remote and gene
27 AeroWesty : Then ask, simply ask. Engage these people in intelligent discourse about what you're perceiving from their posts. To be honest, you won't always get
28 Derico : I just did, and have for years and I rarely get an answer. I'm still waiting for one here. You haven't seen anyone yet, like I mentioned, look back a
29 AeroWesty : I looked up some of those posts. I found you quoted comments from people who haven't been active for 3 - 5 years in some cases. I wouldn't hold my br
30 DeltaMD90 : First it was your strange "Palestinians being deported to Argentina or Chile or whatever" thread, now this thread. I haven't heard anything bad about
31 Derico : So, why is it not overreacting when many US posters or Europans here take offense to my statements... Again, on top of the fact I don't participate i
32 usflyer msp : I like Argentina, I have been there twice. It is a beautiful place and most Argentines are truly nice people. However, my peeves with Argentina are a
33 Derico : Thanks for your reply. See this is what I want specific. This is obviously as old an issue as the country itself post Rosas. It was after the Rosas p
34 alberchico : Do you know how many people demonize the US on these forums on a daily basis ? Rule number one about the internet is that there many morons out there
35 Derico : As I mention above, how many people PRAISE the USA too? I have seen it many times. When a Nazi thread popes up, everyone jumps on our case. They neve
36 ronglimeng : Jeez, I was just on vacation for a week and I took along Paul Theroux's "The Old Patagonian Express" to re-read. Back in the late 70s Mr. Theroux trav
37 Derico : I thought it was slightly ethnocentric, he praised his arrival to europeanized Argentina, and also almost defended the dictatorship because everything
38 DeltaMD90 : OK, I want to avoid pointless bickering. I'll say this once and not post any more (unless you really want me to answer a question by you.) 1. I've he
39 UAL747 : Well, I went to EZE, and there are beautiful men there, great hotels, great food, crappy airport, awesome architecture, much like Paris, beautiful cit
40 Derico : And you also read every single day in those US - EU threads accusations back and forth of ''you are anti-US'' or ''you are anti-EU'', how many times
41 alberchico : Many Europeans do make very broad assumptions about American culture and its way of life and Americans do the same with them. Its generally due to a
42 LAXintl : Hey Derico, relax a bit and take a deep breath. In my view Argentina is a fantastic place, however just because I might consider it fantastic it does
43 yyz717 : Argentina is indeed given a rough ride. I see the following historical reasons all of which reflect poorly on Argentina and encourage the dissing and
44 Post contains images KiwiRob : It doesn't happen often on this forum
45 Asturias : Both those examples are nothing more than the death throes of the british "empire", the Falkland thing little more than a political stunt by an unpop
46 photopilot : Coño!!! Get a little thicker skin. I'm Canadian but choose to use the "Cuba" country and flag for personal reasons. I get lots of crap from some peop
47 Post contains images Derico : Thanks for the answers. May I submit to you, that while I find the economic policy of our current government schitzophrenic, the ''financial'' media h
48 yyz717 : The Falklands are British islands populated by Britons who chose (and choose) to remain British. Gibraltar has chosen democratically to remain Britis
49 Derico : Point 1. Big ONE, It does prove my point doesn't... Is Russia, China, India, Brazil murdered today in financial literature or just general perception
50 baguy : I am confused as to how you can believe that the defence of the Falkland Islands, as British Sovereign territory can be 'just a political stunt'. PM
51 GDB : The last time Spain politically agitated about Gib was in 2002, the same year Spain had to send troops to it's 'enclaves' in North Africa. The irony
52 BMI727 : Indifferent.
53 Derico : This is a thread of why modern Argentina is portrayed unfairly by the world's media and word of mouth folklore. Or why Argentina is always told that t
54 srbmod : Add this point, nothing constructive can really come of this thread, as the topic does come across as being more of a general rant about other users h
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