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First ACORN, Now Planned Parenthood?  
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6056 posts, RR: 3
Posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1821 times:

Quote:
NEW YORK -- Planned Parenthood, a perennial protest target because of its role in providing abortions, has notified the FBI that at least 12 of its health centers were visited recently by a man purporting to be a sex trafficker but who may instead be part of an attempted ruse to entrap clinic employees.

In each case, according to Planned Parenthood, the man sought to speak privately with a clinic employee and then requested information about health services for sex workers, including some who he said were minors and in the U.S. illegally.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2011/01/24/AR2011012404462.html

Apparently the head honcho this time isn't James O'Keefe, but a Lisa Rose, a 22-year old UCLA far right activist. What really baffles me, is that she states she started her anti-abortion group in 2006, which means she decided that abortion should be outlawed at the mature age of 17!

One PP worker has already been fired for failing to notify the police immediately, though there are murmurs that videos have once again been edited (ala O'Keefe and his gang) to ensure a thoroughly one-sided picture.

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5658 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1756 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Thread starter):
which means she decided that abortion should be outlawed at the mature age of 17!

So, what age is appropriate for her to decide that she believes that killing a fetus should be illegal?

I have no problem with someone trying to expose illegal activity, especially when the targeted organization receives federal funding.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinesleekjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2049 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1732 times:

It's funny. The NYT and WaPo covered this story and did their best to concentrate on the surreptitious taping rather than the lack of concern by the PP employee that a purported sex trafficker was wanting to use their services.

Someone, somewhere will will have give an accounting for all these baby murders.



II Cor. 4:17-18
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21876 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

Quoting sleekjet (Reply 2):
The NYT and WaPo covered this story and did their best to concentrate on the surreptitious taping rather than the lack of concern by the PP employee that a purported sex trafficker was wanting to use their services.

Did they not notify the FBI about it? I'm not seeing anything that says that they provided services.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12150 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

What surprises me with this whole debate is the fact that you have a 22 year old who is forcing her opinion and supposed expertise on what is right, though most likely she never have had to make this type of a most difficult decision. Being a male I'll never have to make this choice, though I would never want it not to be an option for a woman.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineHelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1697 times:

Quoting sleekjet (Reply 2):
It's funny. The NYT and WaPo covered this story and did their best to concentrate on the surreptitious taping rather than the lack of concern by the PP employee that a purported sex trafficker was wanting to use their services.

Not so much surreptitious taping more misleading editing ala Breitbart/ O'Keefe. The one manager who did not refuse them was summarily fired.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1651 times:

The thing I hate about this kind of stuff is that both "the left" and "the right" have things they can point to, most often an individual, and they try to paint the entire side as being false, disingenuous, or dangerous. Here we have "the right" pointing out a few failures in a certain organization, and more accurately a few people within an organization, and "the left" has done the same with people and organizations and people that are considered "conservative".

It doesn't end and it doesn't actually change anything. It is simply people making noise and jumping up and down trying to point out the failures of others when what we really need to do is figure out what we agree on and work toward a common goal. Our common goals.

That is the failure in our political discourse, from the talk show host windbags (left and right), to the people in Congress (left and right), to people who shout that "the right is fostering hate speech", to people like this woman. Let's seek to divide people further and focus on small things, make them partisan, and shout these small things as loudly as possible to make them big and noticeable, even though they have no real effect on what this county needs to solve and address.

This is stupid, meaningless, and small compared to the real problems that we have in this nation.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3727 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1646 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Did they not notify the FBI about it? I'm not seeing anything that says that they provided services.

No, they gave advice on how to circumvent the laws.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 4):
What surprises me with this whole debate is the fact that you have a 22 year old who is forcing her opinion and supposed expertise on what is right,

What you really have is a young woman taking a stand for what she believes. What these tapes are doing is only showing PP ignoring current law. What exactly is wrong with that?


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21876 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 7):
No, they gave advice on how to circumvent the laws.

Source? I didn't see anything like that in the posted article.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePacNWjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1619 times:

Network news programs have conducted stings like this for decades. One example: Dateline NBC's infamous "To Catch a Predator" series, in which an NBC news team partners with the activist group Perverted Justice to ferret out potential child molesters trolling the Internet for teenagers willing to have sex. The "teenagers" in question are adult Perverted Justice volunteers, and the NBC news crew, with Chris Hansen as the on-air reporter, confronts the suspected predators using decoys in the sting house. (Side note: If you ever find yourself with Chris Hansen telling you to "have a seat," you are going to have a bad day.) Some of the suspected predators have rap sheets and previous histories of child molestation, but many appear to be hapless immigrants and borderline mental deficients who were lured to the sting house by the Perverted Justice volunteers. All sting operations contain an element of deception (which is what makes them stings), some practice outright entrapment, but many uncover unpleasant truths that would otherwise have gone undiscovered.

[Edited 2011-02-06 21:06:37]

User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1496 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 7):
What these tapes are doing is only showing PP ignoring current law. What exactly is wrong with that?

Isn't it illegal to tape people without their consent? Isn't she also ignoring current law?

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinePacNWjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1473 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 10):
Isn't it illegal to tape people without their consent? Isn't she also ignoring current law?

Laws vary by state and jurisdiction, and often there are exceptions for the press and news organizations, otherwise there would be a lot of news personnel in prison at ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, NBC, etc. as well as thousands of local television stations that have staged undercover investigations for decades.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1453 times:

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 11):
Laws vary by state and jurisdiction, and often there are exceptions for the press and news organizations, otherwise there would be a lot of news personnel in prison at ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, NBC, etc. as well as thousands of local television stations that have staged undercover investigations for decades.

Doesn't really answer the question. It may be done regularly by many people, but the question that I was responding to was "What exactly is wrong with that". If you can point out that it is legal, then there would be "nothing wrong with that" but if it is not legal then that is what is "wrong with that".

Again, I think this is a story of nothing that needs to be addressed in a national manner, nor should it be used, as it is being used, as a divisive tool to split opinion. This is a small problem that should be dealt with locally and by the business involved. People should get fired, or retrained, or disciplined and that should be the end of it. It is not a "big" story. Instead people are trying to use it as a wedge issue and that not needed or appropriate.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

A woman should always have the right to choose what she does with her body. I personally am completely against abortion but who am I to tell someone else what to do with their body. I also happen to be against letting another man have sex with me but you won't find me telling other men they can't do it. Same thing, womans body, womans choice.


/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21876 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1414 times:

Quoting PacNWjet (Reply 11):
often there are exceptions for the press and news organizations

Her organization is most definitely not a news organization.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3727 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1406 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):

Source? I didn't see anything like that in the posted article.

There was a long article on Yahoo about 2 days ago but I'm not surprised the Post doesn't mention it. Rather embarrassing for a pet liberal organization. A very simple Google search came up with this in the first link...
the clinic’s manager advised the scammers as to how they can basically stay out of legal trouble with under-aged persons involved with their sex trafficking antics. The advice given to the scammers includes being dishonest about the ages of the persons being brought to the clinic for treatment as well as saying that the persons are students.
http://www.examiner.com/conservative...uestioned-after-acorn-moment-video

Quoting tugger (Reply 12):
Again, I think this is a story of nothing that needs to be addressed in a national manner,

So, the facilitation of underage sex trafficking by a national organization that receives public funding should just be overlooked and swept under the rug. Right.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 15):
So, the facilitation of underage sex trafficking by a national organization that receives public funding should just be overlooked and swept under the rug. Right.

No of course not, but the story is being blown into something to be used as attack vehicle on what is considered a "liberal organization". This is not being exposed to correct a problem but to attack an organization. If it was an actual news story, and the intent was to simply correct the problems found that would be fine. But that is not what is being done here. And you know it.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3727 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1366 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 16):
No of course not, but the story is being blown into something to be used as attack vehicle on what is considered a "liberal organization". This is not being exposed to correct a problem but to attack an organization. If it was an actual news story, and the intent was to simply correct the problems found that would be fine. But that is not what is being done here. And you know it.

Of course they are being attacked. and why shouldn't they? Lets not forget the charge. Facilitating the sex trafficking of underage girls. and not just one instance, but a second tape has been released as well. So we have what could be construed as a systemic problem in a national, publicly funded organization. In other words, our tax dollars are being used. They (those that are participating) deserve to have the pitbulls of hell unleashed on their sorry asses.


User currently onlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8294 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1360 times:

Quoting sleekjet (Reply 2):
baby murders

Just like to respectfully point out that the medical community does not refer to fetuses as "babies" and the US Supreme Court does not refer to abortion as "murder". You know, backing up facts with facts and all that jazz. Carry on.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 1):

I have no problem with someone trying to expose illegal activity, especially when the targeted organization receives federal funding.

This isn't trying to "expose" anything. Its attempting to entrap people into something.

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 5):

Not so much surreptitious taping more misleading editing ala Breitbart/ O'Keefe. The one manager who did not refuse them was summarily fired.

Yep. Planned Parenthood is an organization that has always maintained the highest levels of integrity, specifically because they are so often unfairly targeted by anti-choice, anti-freedom groups.

Quoting tugger (Reply 10):

Isn't it illegal to tape people without their consent? Isn't she also ignoring current law?

In California it is, as with a few other states (exceptions exist for the hearing impaired and some others). Mostly though, we have one-party consent in this country.

Quoting UAL747DEN (Reply 13):
A woman should always have the right to choose what she does with her body. I personally am completely against abortion but who am I to tell someone else what to do with their body. I also happen to be against letting another man have sex with me but you won't find me telling other men they can't do it. Same thing, womans body, womans choice.

Bingo. I don't think men have any right to say a word about abortion or a woman's reproductive health generally.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6056 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1321 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 15):
the clinic’s manager advised the scammers as to how they can basically stay out of legal trouble with under-aged persons involved with their sex trafficking antics. The advice given to the scammers includes being dishonest about the ages of the persons being brought to the clinic for treatment as well as saying that the persons are students.

The raw footage suggest that that part has been edited to make PP look bad.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201102040026


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3727 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1304 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 20):

The raw footage suggest that that part has been edited to make PP look bad.

There seems top be some disagreement about that and there seems to be a slew of other tapes as well.

Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has already received the full, unedited footage of the Planned Parenthood expose’ videos and he told CBS 6 WVTR in Richmond that they are “shocking.”
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/02/07/p...hock-va-governor-attorney-general/

Some may find that source questionable. Try this quote from the same Attorney General...

what you do have is clearly an open willingness of several organizations meaning subsidiaries of Planned Parenthood nationally in the same category, sex trafficking of minors, and an open willingness to participate in this. And, this is at a time that we are trying to deal with human trafficking.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/wei...enthood-videos-very-seriously.aspx


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1301 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 21):

Some may find that source questionable. Try this quote from the same Attorney General...

You mean this guy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Cuccinelli

Yeah, GREAT source.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5658 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1265 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
This isn't trying to "expose" anything. Its attempting to entrap people into something.

No. Entrapment is when an agent of the State, i.e. a law enforcement officer, attempts to induce someone to commit a crime when that person had no intent to commit the crime. You're a lawyer, I'm sure you mis-spoke (mis-wrote?).



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1261 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 23):

No. Entrapment is when an agent of the State, i.e. a law enforcement officer, attempts to induce someone to commit a crime when that person had no intent to commit the crime.

Did I say legal entrapment? Further, lots of these "To Catch a Predator" bits also involve the police.

Finally, you got the definition wrong. Entrapment can be a defense to a specific or general intent crime. The actual definition is inducing a person to commit an offense they would have otherwise been unlikely to commit.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 fr8mech : I love lawyers. This particular issue didn't. Correct? I'm sure my intent came across.
26 N1120A : Good. Most people don't love us until they need one of us. Nope. You got it very wrong and your attempt at a "gotcha" failed.
27 fr8mech : I won't play 'gotcha' with you. I chose not to cut and paste from the couple of web sites where I made sure I knew what I was talking about. I'm not
28 luv2fly : With that rational numerous organizations and even branches of the military that has broken laws would all be cut off. Or just target ones that do so
29 mham001 : Because you don't agree with some of his politics? You're gonna have to get over that.
30 N1120A : "Some?" The guy is an extremist and clearly has a political agenda. I take issue with frauds. Why shouldn't they? You have someone trying to attack y
31 mham001 : He also happens to be the top lawyer in the state and as an elected official, he is allowed a political agenda. Remember Jerry Brown? He has said he
32 Pyrex : Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of guys... I will make sure to remember that quote for the next time you intervene on some thread about Wikile
33 Maverick623 : Exactly. That being said, it's fairly obvious this is NOT a legitimate sting. So, you see ONE doctored video of ONE employee, and you come to the con
34 Mir : Fine. Won't do much good though - Wikileaks doesn't do what that organization does. -Mir
35 Pyrex : Oh, so releasing classified, stolen information under the guise of "freedom of speech" is OK even if you are not an "accredited" journalist but weari
36 mham001 : Actually, no I haven't. If you look at my posts, I mention that "some" have a problem and what could be a systemic problem. Yes there is disagreement
37 fr8mech : I don't want an amendment banning abortion. The US Constitution and its amendments are a limit on what government may do, not a limit on The People.
38 Mir : First of all, I'm not saying that wearing a hidden camera is not okay, since different jurisdictions have different laws on that - the point I was ma
39 Maverick623 : This is called a straw-man argument, and is a logical fallacy. Not even Wikipedia allows for such terminology to be used. So then why edit it? People
40 fr8mech : And that's what I'm saying. Somebody had to kick the ant hill and see what else comes out. If the government (you know, the stewards of OUR money) is
41 Mir : The stated goal of Live Action is not to figure out whether Planned Parenthood is up to anything. Their goal is to shut the organization down, whethe
42 fr8mech : And they should be held to task when they do break the law or lie. And this is a problem, why? The Left has a lot more 'activist' organizations that
43 Mir : And their reports are generally disregarded by the general public, save for those who have signed on to their particular cause. I don't see why this
44 mham001 : What are you going on about? I wrote that some within PP have been caught promoting illegal activities and you extrapolate that to the whole of PP an
45 Mir : Because they can make things seem more egregious through the editing process. As they should have done. -Mir
46 luv2fly : Hello, pot kettle black! Again you don't agree so punish them more severely.
47 fr8mech : You've lost me. Any organization that takes our money should be subject to investigation. I exclude the military, because they have an internal inves
48 Geezer : After reading about 30 or 40% of the posts in this thread, I have come to some conclusions; first, there are an awful lot of people on A.net who could
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