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Why Should SUV Drivers Be Ashamed?  
User currently offlineFlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2
Posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1656 times:

A few days ago, I walked half a mile out to my car and found a slip of paper under the windshield. It looked like a ticket - and it was some sort of schlock put out by the anti-SUV crowd. They basically accused me of having been a slave to SUV advertising and pointed out how fuel-inefficient and unsafe my truck was.

Now if I pay the costs associated with driving such a vehicle, including the insurance and all the gasoline, is there any more inherent danger that I'm inflicting on society? Our family knew what it was getting into when we got the truck - we're willing to pay the costs, private and social, to ensure that in case of an accident, I survive. I make a choice - to drive the car which has utility to me. Who are the eco-freaks to tell me what my utility preferences are?

My second attack against the environmentalists is that they assume that we're all average drivers. Yes, my truck may be fuel-inefficient. But have they tested out how inefficient it is to drive at 120 mph the way Europeans do? Yes, my truck may be unsafe - but do they know exactly how I drive? I drive safely.

American fuel efficiency is going down the tubes. So what? Why should the preferences of other Americans govern my actions? It reveals that Americans are wealthier than ever and we can purchase - not take - more of the world's resources than any nation on earth. When did higher standards of living become a crime? Many Americans feel that their heart's desire was to own an SUV. Why should we stop them from that?

I have no problem with switching from an SUV to a smaller SUV - actually, I've decided that my next vehicle will be the Escape HEV - but the choice will be purely economic, not environmental.

80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

Windshield flyers...LMAO....Those are something that the skinheads use to remain anonymous. That should tell you something about these people.

You know if those smucks are so pro environment they shouldn't litter.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

If you really have a use for your SUV and you bought it because of that, I don't see anything at all with buying them. But, the sad fact is that the vast majority of SUV drivers did not buy them because of their uses. Also, there seems to be a trend in SUV design to take all the real offroading capability out of them. Built on car frames with big tires and tall roofs, low ground clearance, 2 wheel drive, etc.

I constantly see enormus SUVs being driven around by yuppie women in their 40s with nobody else in the car, in the plains of america, in a city, in an SUV that will never go off pavement. In this situation I just can't help but ask what is going through their minds? Why throw away all that money to waste gas, have something much harder to drive, etc. Sure they might be safe, but do you all care about how much more dangerous you're making it for everyone else? Physics doesn't change just because you're a safe driver, accidents happen, and the more energy involved, theres going to be a greater chance of someone hurt or dying...could you live with yourself if you killed someone in a car crash because your bumper is higher than their hood? I couldn't. Another sad fact is that the trend seems to go in the direction of SUV drivers driving like they're in cars, or even sports cars. Erratically changing lanes, speeding, making sharp turns, etc. Its just not safe no matter how much status and security you think you have.

The majority of SUV owners just don't really seem to have a real need for one. Besides as a status or "compensation" symbol. You could buy quite a nice car (with what some SUVs cost these days) for the same price, and save money in the long run, have an easier drive each day, etc. In my neighborhood their are dozens of SUVs of all types and sizes, and I only know of two people who ever take theirs offroad or use them to their limits...both of the people owning Jeep Wranglers.


User currently offlineJetService From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4798 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1625 times:

I wonder how many trees those flyers killed!!!!!


"Shaddap you!"
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5579 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1624 times:

I have an SUV, an Isuzu Rodeo to be specific, and I am not ashamed of it in the least. Some points to consider:
1. The higher seating position provides excellent visibility.
2. Ingress and egress is much more convenient than with a regular vehicle.
3. Cargo-carrying capacity is very good, especially with the rear seat folded.
4. Fuel economy is not too bad, about 20 mpg in city driving.
5. It does not weigh much more than some larger automobiles, so I'm not putting other drivers at grave risk.
6. It's nice to know that the 4wd capacity is there if needed.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1617 times:

>>Also, there seems to be a trend in SUV design to take all the real offroading capability out of them. Built on car frames with big tires and tall roofs, low ground clearance, 2 wheel drive, etc.<<

*cough* Sounds like *coughs* MDX, RX300, LX, ML, X5, CR-V, RAV4, Tracker, Aztec *coughs*

Heck im all out for SUVs

If your paying for it then i can care less. Its stupid? Maybe to one person its stupid, it is a matter of opinion. Diffrent people like diffrent things. Personally i like SUVs, i have nothing against people who pay for them and then drive them. Sure its useless if you dont use it at all like its supposed to be used, but if that was restricted than our basic freedom of choice would be banished.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1614 times:

SUV drivers have nothing to be ashamed of.

Most SUV drivers are middle- or high-income earners whose taxes are already used for a number of environmental causes.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/mpaine/ncaplist.html

Before anybody argues that SUV's are safer, I invite everybody to go see the above link, which shows most vehicles sold on the market and their crash test results. Go look at the pictures for a nice dramatic result. Truth is, the only thing that makes most SUV's somewhat safer is their higher weight, and that only comes into effect if they hit a smaller vehicle. And which vehicles seemed to do the worst? BIG pick up and utility trucks, those big ones with frames that everybody says are sooo safe. I admit, if you hit a deer, or a Civic, yes, they are safe. If you hit another large vehicle, a bridge support or something like that, you're better off in most well designed small cars. It all comes down to the way they are designed. Truth is, "trucks" don't have to follow the same safety standards as do cars, and many manufacturers take advantage of that. It makes them cheaper to manufacter, and provides fatter profit margins.

Another thing which makes many SUV's not as safe as many cars is that they lack in active safety. They don't handle as well, don't go as well, and don't brake as well. That's why in the winter here in Canada, 90% (not exaggerating) of the vehicles you see spun out on the side of the road are SUV's with 4WD, while all the cars are passing along.

A friend of mine had a new GMC Envoy. He wrote it off in a low speed accident where he lost control (go figure) of the vehicle, and hit a rock on the side of the road. The frame (big tough frame) was bent so much that it wasn't repairable. It was not even a big hit, as no airbags came out, and the OnStar didn't detect a crash, which goes to show that many SUV's are not as tough as people think.

I'm not here to bash SUV's, just wish people would not have misconceptions about them. My friend owns a diesel GMC Suburban, and I love that thing. He makes use of it too, didn't buy it for status.

On a side note, the so called dangerous driving Europeans on their highways, actually have lower death rates than do the slow and safe driving Americans. Another thing to think about.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

Captaingomes..

That is exactly why Poland has the highest accident death rate in the world..Last time i checked Poland was in Europe! AHA!

Latest World Bank Stats

Deaths/10,000 motor vehicles

country
Developed countries
Norway 1.2
Sweden 1.3
Switzerland 1.5
UK 1.6
Japan 1.7
Netherlands 1.8
Australia 1.8
Italy 1.9
Canada 2.0
Taiwan 2.1
Finland 2.1
Germany 2.1
US 2.1
Denmark 2.4
Luxembourg 2.4
Spain 2.8
Austria 2.9
France 3.0
Madagasgar 3.1
Belgium 3.2
Brunei 3.3
New Zealand 3.3
Rep Ireland 3.4
Barbados 3.5
Brazil 4.1
Bhutan 4.2
Portugal 4.4
Singapore 4.4
Mexico 4.6
Philippines 5.3
Malaysia 5.5
Greece 5.6
Tonga 5.8
Hungary 5.9
Islamic Republic of Iran 6.1
Hong Kong 7.0
Costa Rica 8.3
Surinam 9.5
Fiji 9.8
Thailand 11.2
Western Samoa 11.6
Uzbekistan 12.4
Indonesia 12.6
Solomon Is 13.6
Vietnam 14.4
Republic of Korea 14.6
Russian Federation 14.7
Chile 14.8
Lao PDR 14.9
Sri Lanka 15.5
Columbia 16.3
Pakistan 18.7
Central African Republic 19.5
El Salvador 20.0
Djibouti 22.0
South Africa 22.0
Turkmenistan 23.6
Burkina Faso 25.2
India 25.3
Zimbabwe 25.7
China 26.2
Jamaica 26.7
Cote d'Ivoire 27.0
Nicaragua 28.6
Ecuador 28.7
Azerbaijan 29.5
Morocco 30.4
Honduras 34.8
Mauritius 36.3
Kazakhstan 36.5
Botswana 41.0
Cape Verde 42.0
Senegal 45.6
Myanmar 47.7
Liberia 53.7
Kenya 55.1
Mali 61.3
Nepal 62.7
Mongolia 68.1
Swaziland 80.4
Zambia 84.8
Bangladesh 85.6
Papua New Guinea 91.3
Cameroon 93.5
Sierra Leone 107.2
Benin 111.7
Ghana 111.9
Uganda 132.0
Tanzania 136.7
Lesotho 150.9
Nigeria 161.0
Guinea 176.3
Rwanda 193.2
Ethiopia 197.0

Funny how the US isnt higher than alot of European countries isnt it Captaingomes? Next time when you say something be sure to check the stats first....rather than contradicting them!


User currently offlineFlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1586 times:

The majority of SUV owners just don't really seem to have a real need for one.

Who are you to be determining what my needs are?

I'm heartened to see people with sense posting on this board.


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1582 times:

Ok, I'm tired and I should have phrased that differently. I still don't have facts to back it up, but I've seen these facts before where the death rates on the highways are generally lower than in the US for western European countries (not all, but in general). This is comparing countries such as Germany, Spain, France, UK etc. However, the death rates on European roads, off the highways, are usually much worse, because the Europeans don't know how to slow down there. But when it comes to highway driving, they could drive safely at much greater speeds than do the Americans. If I can find something tomorrow, I'll post it.

And the reason countries like Poland have higher death rates is because their road infrastructures aren't quite as developed as many other countries, such as the US, Germany, etc etc. The main factors affecting death rates are driver skill and quality of the roads. (Again, stuff I've read before, and don't have them with me to post, SORRY!)



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1570 times:

SUV's are the new gay status symbol. I think I now know about 15 guys that bought these in the last two years.

Most of them, except the Xterra, is real nice. But personally, I don't care for any of them.

It's a personal choice. Sports cars use just as much gas. And are probably more dangerous.


User currently offlineDinker225 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1058 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1566 times:

Living in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado I see many SUV's. Driving down slippery mountain passes in a blizzard at 20 miles an hour is safe in any car. When you see an SUV flying past you at 40 or 50 MPH your almost guaranteed to see them in a ditch around the next big turn or steeper slope. The point is, these SUV drivers have a false sense of security. People think that they are able to drive their SUV in extremely icy conditions as if they are driving on paved dry roads. Now I am not saying this is the case for every SUV driver. Many people I know that own the things are good drivers. Many people I know that have them are bad drivers.

I myself would never buy one for the heck of it. Same thing goes with a pickup truck. Whats the point of having a pick up truck if you only use the actual flatbed part of it once or twice a year???



Two rules in aviation, don't hit anything and don't run out of gas, cause if you run out of gas yer gonna hit something.
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11029 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1550 times:

Did you know that the average Lexus, Mercedes, and BMW get lower gas mileage than my Ford Escape?

Did you know that the Honda Accord weighs about 92% as much as my Ford Escape?

Did you know that more rollovers occur with cars than with SUVs every year?

Did you know that almost all SUV rollovers occur when they hit a guardrail (as opposed to taking a turn fast)?


I used to be an SUV basher. Then I developed a need for a powerful 4WD vehicle. When you actually do the research, look at the injury rate and gas mileage of SUVs and also realize that 4WD is not a substitute for good attentive driving in poor conditions, your opinion of SUVs may change also. Also, don't forget that not all SUVs are one in the same. My Ford Escape weighs about half that of the Ford Excursion, which in my opinion should either not be legal to drive on regular roads, or should require a B-level license and training to drive. This and its contemporaries are not "Soccer-mom" cars.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1545 times:

. Same thing goes with a pickup truck. Whats the point of having a pick up truck if you only use the actual flatbed part of it once or twice a year???

I don't know a single person who only uses the bed of their pickup that rarely.

That may be how often we have to tow something though but that is because we don't own a trailer. Everthing we haul fits into the bed.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSebolino From France, joined May 2001, 3675 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1535 times:

That's an interesting question.
Of course, you shouldn't be ashamed to buy something which is authorized.
But then, perhaps, you should think about the balance between what's authorized, and what's reasonable.
It seems to be still very under-considered, but the problem of pollution will grow in the near future, and I'm sure the US citizens will have a big revelation about it (I hope not too late).
I'm surprised, because indoor pollution is a problem that US take care of (pb with particle boards, painting products, cleaning liquids, chemical products, ...) . Why - I know the answer - doesn't the US govt take care of outdoor pollution ?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

Sebolino, you seem to be advocating the side of more government restrictions on our lives.

Sorry But I personally wish for less.

Power needs to rest with the states not the federal government, but that is a subject for a different topic.

I am still plotting on smuggling in some Canadian Toilets for my house to get around that lo-flo toliet requirement that the feds require. The ones they sell here are ment to save water but you have to flush them three or four times to get the floaters down the pipe.

Where is the savings in that?



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSaintsman From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 2065 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1526 times:

If you want safety and don't care about the running costs, have you considered a tank?

Only joking.


User currently offlineNik From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1523 times:

Captaingomes, here are some statistics from IRTAD:

http://www.bast.de/htdocs/fachthemen/irtad/english/we2.html


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

Saintsman: If you want safety and don't care about the running costs, have you considered a tank?

It illustrates the point nicely: You yourself might actually be pretty safe. But everybody else... run for your lives!!  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

OK, let me be the first real automobile enthusiast to comment on this topic.


Everyone in this thread is either spitting out arrogance or pride in owning a certain type of SUV or just taking numbers and twisting them to suit there argument.

Read this old thread of mine that clearly states what the ideal solution to this pathetic hype:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/169798/4/




FlyBoeing:
The original intent for the 'Sport Utility Vehicle' is to specifically serve a purpose. If your a small business owner or live out on the farm and need to haul around horses, or live in an area with many un-paved roads, there is certainly a need for an SUV.
If you own an SUV to just show off in front of you neighbors, that's retarded!
That's what Jaguars and Lincoln Town Cars are for.
Many city and suburban people don't know how to operate these things properly and haven't got a clue on the laws of Physics.
Not to mention, they blind drivers behind them of traffic ahead.


D L X:
......Ford Excursion, which in my opinion should either not be legal to drive on regular roads, or should require a B-level license and training to drive.

Well I am glad you bought a Ford.  Smile
However I disagree on the Excursion comment. The Excursion was not designed from ground up. Keep in mind the Excursion has been around for almost 30 years. It's been called the F-350 pick up.
All the Excursion is is an F-350 with a campershell welded to the bed with seats and an interior.
Basically what I am saying is that the Excursion is just a variant of an existing product.
Also, my 1977 Town Car is about 3 inches longer than the Excursion.  Smile



The SUV should be treated like a septic tank.
It is meant to be a utility and not a status symbol.






Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5579 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1488 times:

The Excursion was not designed from ground up. Keep in mind the Excursion has been around for almost 30 years. It's been called the F-350 pick up. All the Excursion is is an F-350 with a campershell welded to the bed with seats and an interior. Basically what I am saying is that the Excursion is just a variant of an existing product.

Moreover, Excursion sales have fallen short of Ford's expectations. For all the talk about "bigger is better," it looks as if many potential buyers have found the Excursion just too big for their needs.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29705 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1484 times:

The Excursion was ment to compete against the Chevy Suburban but I suspect that one of the reasons it's sales are slower is because of the Expedition.

For some people there isn't any reason for them to jump between the Expedition to the Excursion.

BTW. From what I understand, Ford originally intend a luxury SUV when they came up with the Excursion. They had a plain jane crew van that they could sell to the same companies that where buying F-350,450 and 550 pickups and flatbeds to use as work trucks.

I doubt Ford is loosing any money building this vehicle, much like the differences between an A-300 and A-310, there is more in common then different.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 1471 times:

Nik: Funny the european countries DONT publish accident rates off the interstates!

User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 11 months 1 day ago) and read 1461 times:

Nice. I think you're mistaken if you think its just a bunch of granola-y treehugging liberals that are trying to get you to think about the negative consequences of driving a car with 70s-era gas mileage.

How many young men & women does this country have stationed from Riyahd to Kabul, in countries that don't want them, in danger that's ever present? Why? 'Training excercise'? No. They're there living smack dab in the middle of ancient blood fueds and 11th Century extremism so that you can drive your four wheeled pig around at 12 miles to the gallon....and post internet messages daring anyone to chide you for it.

You speak of standard of living. I agree that the American standard of living is one we've earned and it is worthy of respect. But has being ignorant of consequences become part of that standard? I'm sorry to say that it has.

I don't know about you, but IMO the sooner we can at long last cut the umbilical of dependence to the Middle East ...this country's 'standard of living' will be far higher than it would be if everyone had an Excursion.



25 Post contains images Olympic A-340 : "Honey, I am going to go and contribute to the current energy crisis" ::comes home with a loaded Ford Excursion (problem-lives in Los Angeles) Naw, I
26 Post contains images Captaingomes : "Everyone in this thread is either spitting out arrogance or pride in owning a certain type of SUV or just taking numbers and twisting them to suit th
27 Notdownnlocked : Excellent post Heavymetal. Unfortunately many many here in Texas have SUVs with no real need. The even more ridiculous ones have that big bumper and g
28 GD727 : Why should people hate SUV's? They are great vehicals! The only way they are unsafe is that they roll over easier, but when it comes to collisions, t
29 Sonic : Well, SUVs don't allways helps with bad roads. One my relatives has friends in country. The road to go there is unpaved but is trafficable by all cars
30 Travelin man : "Unfortunately many many here in Texas have SUVs with no real need." There's that phrase again: NEED. Who the hell are you to tell me what my "needs"
31 D L X : GD727, please reread Heavymetal's post for an answer to your question: "why should other people complain to you when YOU, not them, are paying for the
32 Super Em : I like SUV's and someday I plan on owning one. Why don't they go after sport car owners also?
33 Heavymetal : Travellin, relax...I dont think anyone's saying there should be laws or whatever to keep people from buying SUVS... But I've lived in Texas too and th
34 Travelin man : That's fine, you can ask if they "need" it. And I have the right to point out that not very many people "need" the car they own, be it SUVs, sports ca
35 Post contains images D L X : George Carlin used to say that there are two types of drivers on the road today: Assholes and Maniacs. An Asshole is anyone that drives slower than yo
36 Heavymetal : And if you really feel your life is in danger by large vehicles, I'd suggest moving out of Texas. I did.
37 Post contains links Captaingomes : http://www.suvrollovernews.com/html/facts.html http://www.suvrollovernews.com/html/general.html I would like to invite people to the above links. Whil
38 GD727 : D L X: I actually agree with you and Heavymetal about Americans living in the Mideast. My family tries to buy gas from companies that do not import o
39 Post contains links and images Captaingomes : That's why the Pontiac Grand Am was given the worst possible rating, and essentially killed the dummy in crash tests. Give me a well designed small ca
40 Mcringring : And this from an interview I did with the Manager of Public Information for AAA - taken directly from the transcript. No link available. Well, without
41 D L X : Gomes sez: "I'm not posting this to cause a war, but D L X said "Did you know that more rollovers occur with cars than with SUVs every year?" He didn'
42 Post contains images Bruno : To answer the original question. Yes, you SUV drivers should be ashamed and drive with a frown on your faces because that's what the liberal eco-freak
43 Captaingomes : D L X, I have to agree with you there. That's why I was careful in the way I worded my reply to you, because you are stating the opposite facts that I
44 Srbmod : Of course, how many of those with SUVs actually take them off-road, which is what they were originally design for, off-road use. The closest many of t
45 JAL : I have a Nissan Pathfinder and I'm very happy with it. I don't care what others think about my choice of automobile, for my next car I fully expect to
46 D L X : CaptainGomes, check out Srbmod for an example of someone who lumps all SUVs and SUV drivers into one category without knowing all the facts. Srb, whic
47 Heavymetal : Yes, you SUV drivers should be ashamed and drive with a frown on your faces because that's what the liberal eco-freaks feel! Hey Rush...tell that to t
48 N202PA : You've been totally brainwashed by Big Oil. Heh, I guess anyone who doesn't "see the light" has been "brainwashed" and is obviously too ignorant to fo
49 Heavymetal : Anyone has the right to form an ignorant opinion. In any case, you said it... not me.
50 N202PA : I think that pretty much says it all, Heavymetal. I don't think anyone can really debate fairly with you because you seem to have zero respect for the
51 Heavymetal : I don't need to be lectured on debate by you. I just find it quite humourous that some people (and call me nuts, but it seems like most of them tend t
52 N202PA : Heavymetal, I refuse to discuss any issue of politics with you precisely because of the previous reasoning I gave - you can't even adhere to the funda
53 Heavymetal : The fundamental tenet of fair discussion??? Who wrote that? And how many times does it come in play on THESE forums? Look, I'm sorry if my choice of w
54 LOT767-300ER : "Too bad nobody listened to the "eco-freaks" after the Gulf War. Who's sons and dads have to die the NEXT time we go back huh?" Tell me what your smok
55 Heavymetal : Okay now where's the s**tfit from 202PA on that post. I stand a thousand percent behind my comment. The drive toward more fuel efficient cars...yes ev
56 D L X : "The drive toward more fuel efficient cars...yes even more fuel efficient S-U-Vs...should have become a national priority the minute we liberated Kuwa
57 Post contains images Heavymetal : I can't I flunked debate class. Seriously, I know Ford has really stepped up the drive to produce more fuel friendly SUVs & large vehicles....(don't t
58 Post contains images D L X : Re hydrogen and electric vehicles: I don't think I like either idea actually. The problem with electric is that you're not polluting the air immediate
59 Hartsfieldboy : People who buy SUVs think they'll be safe if they hit a car because they have greater mass. Too bad they don't realize that since 50% of vehicle sales
60 D L X : "People who buy SUVs think they'll be safe if they hit a car because they have greater mass. " Another baseless generalization.
61 SPRINGBOK : You pay for the car-you choose what it is!!!!-whats it gota do with anyone else!! Yes in a Eutopian Society we would ride bikes and hug trees but that
62 Post contains images Bruno : SPRINGBOK You da man!
63 Post contains images 777236ER : F=MA Resultant force = mass x acceleration. Not "F=ma" cos that's wrong. It's not the tractive or driving force, it's the RESULTANT force, which usual
64 L-188 : All of these alternatives will come along when they are economically viable. And throwing a whole bunch of my tax money at them is not the way to make
65 ILOVEA340 : It doesn't matter how much you spend on gas or insurance. Its the emisions and waste of resourcesthat are pointlessly being used up. Seeing one or two
66 BlatantEcho : I can not think of one person I have ever met who can drive a car in any reasonable manner, who would ever spend money on an SUV. The only expection i
67 LOT767-300ER : Please, Emissions? oh ok you socialists in Europe are trying to force your slave ideas upon the rest of the world...Dont tell us what can we can and c
68 Captaingomes : I have nothing against SUV's. Just like I have nothing against nice cars. But the attitudes of people behind the wheels is what is disgusting, just li
69 Ilyushin96M : As the driver of a mini-SUV, I feel many of the generalisations made about all types are justified. Most SUVs I see on the road - Toyota 4Runners, Nis
70 Captaingomes : Ok, my reply makes no sense. I'm glad the message I was replying to was deleted.
71 Aerorobnz : Americans like size, Europeans like efficiency....its just a culture difference...
72 Big777jet : This is what I don't like SUV are: too much gas guzzler; too big can't through narrow street or traffic out of the way; hard to find park on the stree
73 ILOVEA340 : IMO it should have nothing to do with culture. The fact remains that an average SUV (which AFAIK is usualy occupeid with 1-2 people only) burns much m
74 Dinker225 : Just saw yesterday at a graduation ceremony that an SUV owner had forgotten to put the parking break on. Didn't leave the car in gear. The car a Jeep
75 D L X : What a useless thread. You know why this thread is useless? Because most of the people that have "contributed" to the thread didn't bother to read a b
76 Big777jet : Huh? DLX, what are you talking about? What is about other users mentioned about SUV? I don't get it your point! Big777jet
77 777lover : The point is not the safety of the SUV. The point is not the performance and dimensions of the SUV. The point is that people should have the freedom t
78 Big777jet : Ok, whatever....Thanks Big777jet
79 Alpha 1 : I haven't read all the replies-none, in fact, because somehow I've missed this thread. I'll give it a look tomorrow. But I bought a 1992 Dodge Caravan
80 Metwrench : Blah, Blah, Blah! You know what really irritates me? I drive, and have driven a 90 Chevy Suburban since 94. It is not a SUV!!!!! The little sh*t boxes
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