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Mexico Will Give 180 Day Visa To Central Americans  
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6618 posts, RR: 35
Posted (3 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1767 times:
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This week the Senate passed various laws to protect illegal immigrants into Mexico. The two main points are the following:

1. No Illegal alien person in the Mexican territory will be deemed "illegal" by law. It will not be a crime.

2. Mexico will start giving 180 day VISAS to Central American citizens so they can use normal channels to get into the country, be it ship or plane. Thus, they won´t be subject to kidnapp, extorsion, torture and the usual sufferring they were subjected too while traversing Mexico, because their status will be legal.

3. Instead of havng to pay up to $5,000 USD to a coyote, in the Usumacinta river, they can now spend a decent amount on airfare and travel through Mexico as they want.

Good news for TACA, CM and AM

Source, in Spanish only

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/ultimas/2...enado-aprobacion-de-ley-migratoria

[Edited 2011-02-27 23:01:50]

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26175 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (3 years 10 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1761 times:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
1. No Illegal alien person in the Mexican territory will be deemed "illegal" by law. It will not be a crime.

       

Mexico does not care about who is inside its borders?

What happens when Central Americans start taking away jobs, or start getting involved in criminal activity?

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
3. Instead of havng to pay up to $5,000 USD to a coyote, in the Usumacinta river, they can now spend a decent amount on airfare and travel through Mexico as they want.

Amazing. Carte Blance to use Mexico as an even easier stagging ground to enter the US.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (3 years 10 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1705 times:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
This week the Senate passed various laws to protect illegal immigrants into Mexico



Very good for Mexico, I am very glad human rights start taking top priority before any other rights.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 10 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1667 times:

Queue the "Mexico will start dumping these people in truckloads to the US and life's over as we know it" crowd in 3...2...1...  

User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3733 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (3 years 10 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1613 times:

6 months should be plenty of time to figure out how to get across the US border.

User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6618 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1541 times:
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Quoting Bogota (Reply 2):
Very good for Mexico, I am very glad human rights start taking top priority before any other rights.

More important changes from the law:

The Police no longer will be able to detain migrants. Legal or illegal, just for their status.
The Police will no longer be able to fine whoemever gives migrants a job, no matter their status.

Any statute that criminalizes those migrants crossing through the National territory were eliminated. No migrant legal or illegal can be a criminal just for the fact of being in Mexico. No irregular migratory situation will be considered a felony.

The Senate voted unanimously.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5828 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1527 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 5):
Any statute that criminalizes those migrants crossing through the National territory were eliminated. No migrant legal or illegal can be a criminal just for the fact of being in Mexico. No irregular migratory situation will be considered a felony.

The Senate voted unanimously.

Talk about poking the 800# gorilla with a stick!!!

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5620 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 5):
More important changes from the law:

The Police no longer will be able to detain migrants. Legal or illegal, just for their status.
The Police will no longer be able to fine whoemever gives migrants a job, no matter their status.

Any statute that criminalizes those migrants crossing through the National territory were eliminated. No migrant legal or illegal can be a criminal just for the fact of being in Mexico. No irregular migratory situation will be considered a felony.

The Senate voted unanimously.

This is great move on the part of the Mexico Legislature. What the Mexican authorities, coyotes and thugs have being doing to Central American women, teens and children has been horrific as they had no status at all. Now all of that will cease or at least be curtailed seriously.

Yep, they'll probably head further north, to combat that, the US needs to get smart, the US needs to find away interact and treat it's Latin American neighbors like it does it's European partners. Engage them more, help foster conditions better than they are now. If not, the madness going on Mexico will sure spread south over time and it's become a nightmare to contain.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineBogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1470 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 7):
Engage them more, help foster conditions better than they are now. If not, the madness going on Mexico will sure spread south over time and it's become a nightmare to contain.



I would say spread north or maybe to the south US.


User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1435 times:

Why even ask for a 'visa' that does not check anything. It's a sticker. It's all it is.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Mexico does not care about who is inside its borders?
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Mexico does not care about who is inside its borders?
What happens when Central Americans start taking away jobs, or start getting involved in criminal activity?

It's just easier to surrender and do nothing. Typical of our government. Before this they passed a law that enabled entry to citizens from any country provided they have a US, Canadian, Japanese or Schengen Visa. How do Mexican authorities determine if said papers are authentic? Do they know if said person is a felon in Mexico? NO.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Amazing. Carte Blance to use Mexico as an even easier stagging ground to enter the US.

If this turns out to be true, then we are terrible neighbors.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 5):
The Police will no longer be able to fine whoemever gives migrants a job, no matter their status.

Did they ever? There are thousands of illegal workers already.


User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6678 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1429 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Mexico does not care about who is inside its borders?

What happens when Central Americans start taking away jobs, or start getting involved in criminal activity?
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):

Amazing. Carte Blance to use Mexico as an even easier stagging ground to enter the US.
Quoting AM744 (Reply 9):
It's just easier to surrender and do nothing. Typical of our government.

I am not an expert on the issue - but was immigration really enforced in Mexico anyways?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2755 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1423 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 3):
Queue the "Mexico will start dumping these people in truckloads to the US and life's over as we know it" crowd in 3...2...1...

Why do you think they will stop in Mexico and find a nice job? Perhaps as a Cartel Gunmen or packaging cocaine? So cue the illegal immigrant apologist in ....1



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1408 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 10):
I am not an expert on the issue - but was immigration really enforced in Mexico anyways?

Not really. This and other measures only prove that the government body in charge of border safety (INM) is a bloated entity that servers no real purpose. I base my assumption in the plethora of irregularities that arise whenever a foreing national is processed for a crime. And yes, there have been many, from simple theft to kidnap.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12976 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1397 times:

Quoting AR385 (Thread starter):
3. Instead of havng to pay up to $5,000 USD to a coyote, in the Usumacinta river, they can now spend a decent amount on airfare and travel through Mexico as they want.

And now the coyotes will know the illegals didn't have to spend so much to get to Northern Mexico, so their fees will go up, and cartels will fight even harder to control the smuggling routes because they will be even more profitable.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 7):

This is great move on the part of the Mexico Legislature. What the Mexican authorities, coyotes and thugs have being doing to Central American women, teens and children has been horrific as they had no status at all. Now all of that will cease or at least be curtailed seriously.

Sure, the illegals can now get into Mexico freely, but if their goal is to get into the US, they will still have to deal with the cartels and the coyotes, since they control the human smuggling routes.

All it means is that the cartel wars to control the major human smuggling routes into the US will intensify greatly.

In short, more Mexicans killing Mexicans.

Terrible move, Mexican Senate!

Quoting AM744 (Reply 9):
It's just easier to surrender and do nothing. Typical of our government.

I agree.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineBogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1369 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
Sure, the illegals can now get into Mexico freely, but if their goal is to get into the US, they will still have to deal with the cartels and the coyotes, since they control the human smuggling routes.


The illegals already have to deal with the coyotes, maybe now they do not have to be prey to these mafias until they get north and allowing for a more concentrated policy and resources in the US border could be more effective. Do not forget most migrants come from Mexico itself, and the Mexican government was spending money trying to double forces for the same purpose, thus generating an additional problem at the southern border.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
All it means is that the cartel wars to control the major human smuggling routes into the US will intensify greatly.


The cartel wars have to do more with drugs than with immigrants and that is totally different issue. Illegal migrants are in search of a better life in a richer country that may or may not harm an economy. On the other hand drug trade on its way to it biggest market leaves a sad trail of dead people on its way. So two very different situations.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
In short, more Mexicans killing Mexicans.


On the contrary, these migrants might now better chances of survival as they do not have to deal with so many dangers in their venture.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
Terrible move, Mexican Senate!


I think it is the best option when thinking of human rights and the optimization of resources.


User currently offlineBogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1360 times:

Quoting AM744 (Reply 9):
If this turns out to be true, then we are terrible neighbors.

I think it is responsability of every nation to be good neighbors to all neighbors, now the resources of the Mexican government could be better spent on more important issues like the drug cartels in the north of the country and the citizens of the southern neighboring countries do not have to fall prey to mafias that have existed for decades anyhow. This fight only drained resources, only strengthened mafias and only served a purpose that had to be dealt again in the northern border.


User currently offlineAlexEU From Nauru, joined Oct 2007, 1826 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1360 times:

So the gov´t just gave up. Same as if they legalized drugs in order to fight cartels and protect smugglers. Why didnt they put more military at the borders?

User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days ago) and read 1342 times:

Which reminds me of the Brazilian visa issue. Can we now drop this stupid requirement? I fail to see how the US is ok with this when they asked Mexico to require visas to Brazilians, South Africans and Ecuadorians some years ago. If everybody is allowed to enter we might as well make life easier to ourselves and allow free transit between Latin America's biggest economies.

I'm sorry but this whole charade makes no sense. I want my taxes back. Our government surrenders its responsibilities yet again. Shameful.


User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6618 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (3 years 10 months 3 days ago) and read 1327 times:
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Central American migrants when having to cross the country illegally were prey to

-Kidnappings
-Extorsion
-Fangerous journeys on the top or the inside of cargo trains
-Slavery
-Forced prostitution
-Rape
-Murder
-Robbery

The Mexican Government after a terrible migrant massacre and the countless felonies committed against them decided that it can´t protect them. It doesn´t have the resources, what with the marines and the military fighting the American demand for drugs, so the best solution is giving them free access to the territory.

If they want to use that access to cross the territory all the way to the North it´s their prerrogative. If they want to risk their lives crossing into the US through desert routes in July, or drowning themselves in the Rio Bravo, it´s also up to them. But, whatever happpened to them while crossing through Mexico is over because now they can use planes and buses, more likely, regular bus lines. No authority can extort them now, either, and no more train accidents which tended to be horrible.



Quoting AM744 (Reply 9):
It's just easier to surrender and do nothing.

It´s not that, it´s being practical, and being a good neighbor too, to our Central American countries.

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 16):
Why didnt they put more military at the borders?

And please explain what would be the purpose of that. Shoot anybody trying to get in or out?

Quoting windy95 (Reply 11):
Why do you think they will stop in Mexico and find a nice job? Perhaps as a Cartel Gunmen or packaging cocaine? So cue the illegal immigrant apologist in ....1

So you´re assuming that every Central American citizen migrating is a delinquent or a criminal? Talk about being prejudiced.

Quoting AM744 (Reply 12):
Not really. This and other measures only prove that the government body in charge of border safety (INM) is a bloated entity that servers no real purpose. I base my assumption in the plethora of irregularities that arise whenever a foreing national is processed for a crime. And yes, there have been many, from simple theft to kidnap.

I agree with you, but Mexican diplomacy was simple, but respected the world over until FOX and his successor came along.

Quoting AM744 (Reply 9):
Did they ever? There are thousands of illegal workers already.

And is that bad? I myself believe that the more migrants a country gets the better. It stirs the gene pool and, has the potential of bettering many industries, brings new customs and traditions and overall, makes for a better country. As far asI´m concerned all these people that come through, are welcome to stay.


User currently offlineAlexEU From Nauru, joined Oct 2007, 1826 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1227 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 18):
And please explain what would be the purpose of that. Shoot anybody trying to get in or out?

Just do the same that the USA is doing with Mexico border. Not kill anyone like North Korea, but make border security tightened.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 20, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1227 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 3):


Queue the "Mexico will start dumping these people in truckloads to the US and life's over as we know it" crowd in 3...2...1...

They beat you.

Quoting Bogota (Reply 2):

Very good for Mexico, I am very glad human rights start taking top priority before any other rights.

Agreed.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 7):

This is great move on the part of the Mexico Legislature. What the Mexican authorities, coyotes and thugs have being doing to Central American women, teens and children has been horrific as they had no status at all. Now all of that will cease or at least be curtailed seriously.

It also puts a thumb in the eye to all their north of the border critics who speak of double standards on the treatment of Guatemalan and other Central American migrants.

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 16):
Same as if they legalized drugs in order to fight cartels and protect smugglers

They, and the US, should legalize and tax drugs.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8978 posts, RR: 39
Reply 21, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1222 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
Sure, the illegals can now get into Mexico freely, but if their goal is to get into the US, they will still have to deal with the cartels and the coyotes, since they control the human smuggling routes.

All it means is that the cartel wars to control the major human smuggling routes into the US will intensify greatly.

This may happen at the US border, however this. . .

Quoting AR385 (Reply 18):
-Kidnappings
-Extorsion
-Fangerous journeys on the top or the inside of cargo trains
-Slavery
-Forced prostitution
-Rape
-Murder
-Robbery

. . . goes away inside Mexico. So is this a neutral law in terms of reducing violence? Perhaps. But now the focus is on US policy.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5620 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1197 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 21):
. . . goes away inside Mexico. So is this a neutral law in terms of reducing violence? Perhaps. But now the focus is on US policy.

Yes, the US policy... which has two choices.

The Easy-Button Approach (better known as the Neandethal option)

- Built a New Berlin Wall with barbed wired, sentries with guard dogs, patrolling armored vehicles and military bases along the perimeter. Operational cost per year...Billions.

Or

The Intelligent Approach. (which has a snow balls chance in hell).

Take the same Billions and actively (with agressive oversight enforcement) invest them in the nations prioritized by the greatest economic distress.

Guatemala
Honduras
Nicaragua
Belize
El Salvador - the most dangerous to the USA in the future - with deported ex-US gang members setting up shop.

We send millions in AId that seems to do jack-squat! We've spent billions raiding and propping up US puppet dictators over decades.

Had the same billions been used to set off sincere economic development over the same time period... economically depressed Mexicans may have very well been fleeing 'the other way' .. down to each of these countries to enjoy the fruits of these would-be thriving tropical paradises. But we didn't, just like China (Nationalist), Egypt, Philippines, Taiwan and many other nations, we let the rulers pocket 'the Aid Billions' - and enrich themselves for years on end.

We can still take this approach and help guide these nations towards greater prosperity, making their citizens wanting to stay and making Americans/the World .. want go ther in droves - for investment, vacation, ex-pat activities!

Mexico would then be the troubled neighbor caught in the middle and having to make a tough choice (like it is now in battling the drug cartels toe-to-toe..instead of letting have their way) on which way to move forward.

But like I said, our national mentality lacks the capability to think long term for our own betterment, panic and knee-jerk reaction is what we're best at..and so here comes the walls, fences and the 21st Century Berlin Wall.


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineBogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1170 times:

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 19):

Just do the same that the USA is doing with Mexico border. Not kill anyone like North Korea, but make border security tightened.

With the millions of immigrants still crossing on a permanent basis and tons of drugs still ready available on every US corner I have my doubts that border security is really working.


User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6618 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (3 years 10 months 2 days ago) and read 1155 times:
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Quoting AlexEU (Reply 19):
Just do the same that the USA is doing with Mexico border. Not kill anyone like North Korea, but make border security tightened.


Like North Korea? Are you aware of what you are saying? So ditches should be built, border guards and marksmen as well as tall walls with electrified barbed wire should be installed? Should total anhilation threats at the highest levels of government also be part of the package if a migrant makes it through? Like North Korea, oh boy, this trumps many of the things I´ve heard over the years in these threads.

Back to reality, it has never worked. Furthermore, Obama has said they will pull back on that tactic by using more "electronic" means. It´s just a mater of time one of those state of the art unmanned little planes is brought down by someone on the Mexican or American side.

Quoting AM744 (Reply 17):
If everybody is allowed to enter we might as well make life easier to ourselves and allow free transit between Latin America's biggest economies.

We would be late to the party, as citizens from Brazil, Argentina (Right there you have two of the three biggest economies)Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia and soon Venezuela, and I believe Colombia too, don´t need a VISA let alone a passport to travel beween each others´ countries. It would be wonderful, yet still a dream, the day when no passport would be needed to travel between every country in Latin America.

I support that idea.

[Edited 2011-03-02 12:15:20]

[Edited 2011-03-02 12:24:28]

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