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Diesel Vs Petrol  
User currently offlineklm77 From Canada, joined Sep 2009, 168 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2251 times:

Hey all, I just wanted to get some opinions on what you think of diesel/petrol cars and what you prefer.

First before anything some Pros and Cons should be pointed out. Since there are a bunch, I'm just going to point out a few for each of the top of my head.

Diesel

Pros:
Great on fuel economy (Some vehicles such as VW can get up to 1000km on one tank)
Engines are more durable and could last up to 2x longer.
Have greater torque equaling in the ability to tow more weight.

Cons:
Not as powerful as gas.
Can become very smelly if idling for a long time.
They cost more to buy and maintain.
Can annoy people with the tractor like sound the engine makes

Petrol

Pros:
Have more power then diesel cars
Are more environmentally friendly
Quieter compared to a diesel.
Much cheaper to maintain.

Cons:
Not as good on fuel economy

Though some of the cons on the new diesels these days may not apply (Sound for example).

Thoughts?

[Edited 2011-03-02 18:57:45]

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2245 times:

The durability claim has been greatly mitigated over the years. They are making diesels lighter now with much higher pressures while gas motors have greatly extended their lifespans.
Ford is making a mockery of the torque claims too. Their new gas motors put a diesel to shame.

Anyway, they're all bad. Go electric!


User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2236 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 1):
Go electric!

There you go Coal Powered vs Petrol vs Diesel

Okie


User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8443 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2236 times:
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I have been driving a BMW 320d for the last 5 years and I love it. It is smooth, not smelly, not noisy, you get a vague diesel rattle when stationary but on the move you wouldn't know. It has great torque and doesn't feel my bike trailer when I tow it.

Last year I drove a rented Golf 6 2.0 TDi and I was just as impressed. That had a lot more acceleration than my BMW and felt like it had plenty of torque too. I am seriously considering this as my next car.

Quoting klm77 (Thread starter):
Petrol Pros:
Are more environmentally friendly

I disagree. My BMW has lower emissions than the equivalent petrol car and this is reflected in the CO2 tax you pay on a new one.

Quoting klm77 (Thread starter):
Petrol Cons:
Much cheaper to maintain.

Why is this a con?



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 2):

There you go Coal Powered vs Petrol vs Diesel

Yep, even the dirtiest coal power plant (their number is diminishing) is more efficient than thousands of individual gas and diesel power plants.

[Edited 2011-03-02 18:57:49]

User currently offlineklm77 From Canada, joined Sep 2009, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2223 times:

Quoting Andz (Reply 3):
I disagree. My BMW has lower emissions than the equivalent petrol car and this is reflected in the CO2 tax you pay on a new one.

Yes and I agree with you, as I had mentioned some of the cons can be argued due to the new technology/quality of diesel fuel nowadays.

My mistake on the Con for petrol :S


User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 962 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Quoting Andz (Reply 3):
I disagree. My BMW has lower emissions than the equivalent petrol car and this is reflected in the CO2 tax you pay on a new one.

The NOX emissions are still an issue for diesels, but this tends to be ignored with our current CO2 obsession.

I switched from petrol to diesel last year and overall prefer it. Pros: better fuel economy, thumping torque for engine capacity, giving great pulling force from relatively low revs (great on really winding mountain roads!) Cons: 4500rpm redline without that top end zing of a good petrol, DPF clogs up with too much running around town and has to be actively regenerated.


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2597 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2188 times:
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I've always driven a petrol powered car and will, for now, choose petrol over diesel any time. I agree that diesels uses less fuel than petrol powered cars, but the two things that annoy me are the diesel smell and the rattling noise at idle. For me, those reasons alone are enough for me to choose a petrol car over a diesel car, even if diesels have improved quite a lot over the years.

Here in Australia, diesel fuel is more expensive than petrol, which seems odd when you consider that petrol is far more refined than diesel oil. That puts the final nail in the coffin for diesel cars, as far as I'm concerned. Despite this, though, diesel cars are growing in popularity over here, but nowhere near the popularity it has achieved in Europe, for instance.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineairportugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 7):
but the two things that annoy me are the diesel smell and the rattling noise at idle.

The 2010 Ford Fiesta I rented in Europe this past Summer didn't really have any rattling noise in idle. It was a pleasure to drive. However, I know what you mean....that was a new car, on older models...that can certainly be a 'pain'.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 962 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2178 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 7):
Here in Australia, diesel fuel is more expensive than petrol

True, but as the diesel is more economical than petrol, your fuel cost will generally be lower (yes, I know diesels generally cost more to purchase here than the equivalent petrol - I'm only talking fuel costs).

No real diesel smell with a DPF equipped diesel, and the rattle at idle is almost gone with the latest common rail diesels.

I'm still loving, loving, loving the torque - V6 torque with 4 cyl fuel consumption!


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2598 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2168 times:

Quoting klm77 (Thread starter):
Not as good on fuel economy

While it's true, let me remind you that the comparison isn't always fair, because:

-the diesel engine in the same car is usually the least powerful option
-current small diesel engines are much more technologically advanced than a regular gasoline engine. I don't think is fair to compare a TDI CR engine to a pushrod gasoline engine

So the only fair comparison would be to compare, let's say, VW's TDi CR to VW's TSI or TFSI. The difference in fuel economy isn't so large in this case.

There is another important fact we should remember: the BTU/gallon value of diesel fuel is roughly 10% higher than gasoline's. So the diesel has a natural advantage here.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2168 times:

Quoting klm77 (Thread starter):
Not as powerful as gas.

In terms of horsepower, not always. However, in terms of torque, even smaller diesel engines outperform gas/petrol engines in this department by a long shot. What they lack in top speed they more than make up in acceleration and passing performance, a product of their comparatively very high torque.

Quoting klm77 (Thread starter):
Can annoy people with the tractor like sound the engine makes

Hardly the case anymore. On the outside they may sound clunky still but inside they sound just as quiet and I dare say smoother than their gas equivalents in some cases.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 1):
Their new gas motors put a diesel to shame.

I dunno about the other cars, but I just test drove the Fiesta 1.6L Manual, it's pathetic. No usable torque whatsoever, which really disappointed me as on paper the HP/Torque figures seem pretty respectable. I find it ridiculous that they advertise it as "sporty" and "fun to drive" when it isn't at all.

[Edited 2011-03-02 20:07:04]

[Edited 2011-03-02 20:07:25]

User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2153 times:

Quoting klm77 (Thread starter):
Can become very smelly if idling for a long time.
They cost more to buy and maintain.
Can annoy people with the tractor like sound the engine makes

Not true. All 3 of our cars are diesels, and none of them make a tractor like sound or anything. I've had my diesel JK Wrangler for 4 years now, and driven close to 130,000 km without any issues. Yes, diesels cost more to buy (the price difference between a petrol and diesel when I bought the car was $4500), but about the same to maintain. I'd say the highest service charge I've ever paid was $950..but thats about the same as servicing a petrol car at 100,000 kms. I easily get over 800 km on one tank of diesel..much more than a petrol V6 powered Wrangler. My dad's ML350 diesel easily goes over 1000 kms on one tank, plus its quite fun to drive..very responsive.

Don't know about the smell part either. I've never had any issues with any of our diesel cars, but then again I've never left any of them idling for a long time. But I do agree..petrol smells a lot nicer than diesel!



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 962 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2152 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 10):
the BTU/gallon value of diesel fuel is roughly 10% higher than gasoline's.

So the 3% fuel cost premium here in Australia def works to diesel's advantage.

There are so many factors at play, it really depends on what you're after. Looking at the current VAG engines, the 1.8 petrol is more powerful than the 2TDiCR - but the diesel has a big torque advantage. You're right that the fuel economy difference is no longer as great.

Really, if torque was similar, I'd be happy to go either way. My car is only sold as a diesel here in Australia, so the choice was made for me - and it's resolved the lack of pulling power out of tight bends that I've hated with every car I've had until now.


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2598 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2151 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 11):
I dunno about the other cars,

Well, I'd like to test drive a Golf with the 1.4 TFSI, preferably with MT. 170 hp and 177 lbft of torque available between 1500-4500 rpm sounds really interesting.


User currently offlineShamrock137 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2151 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 10):
-the diesel engine in the same car is usually the least powerful option

While the horsepower is lower, diesel engines usually have much more torque, which makes the difference in performance when it comes to acceleration. Take the BMW 3 series, if you order the diesel with 175 bhp you get 258 lb·ft of torque and a 0-60 time of 7.9 seconds. Comparability, with the 175 bhp petrol engine you get 155 lb·ft of torque and a 0-60 time of 8.1 seconds.



Time to spare? Go by air!
User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 962 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

My 103kw diesel has 350Nm of torque, whereas the 118kw petrol has 250Nm (admittedly across a wider rev range). Combined cycle fuel consumption is 5.1l/100km for the diesel and 7.2l/100km for the petrol.

User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 11):

I dunno about the other cars, but I just test drove the Fiesta 1.6L Manual, it's pathetic.

You need to try the EcoBoost lineup.


User currently offlineairportugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 17):
You need to try the EcoBoost lineup.

I love the yuppie sounding names...EcoBoost? Really?

Just like 'FLEXFUEL' on a Chevy Tahoe (or similar). Sorry, chief, but you are really not fooling anyone.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineMrChips From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 927 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2077 times:

Quoting klm77 (Thread starter):
Can become very smelly if idling for a long time.

Modern diesels have very advanced emissions controls - the acrid burnt diesel smell is largely a thing of the past (unless you're driving a POS Ford Powerstroke).

Quoting klm77 (Thread starter):
Can annoy people with the tractor like sound the engine makes

Again, only pickup trucks are noisy - mostly because the idiots who buy them want to sound like a semi-truck, for some reason. I've driven a BMW 335d, and let me tell you, not only was I blown away by how fast it was, but by how eerily quiet it was inside as well - the 335d is far quieter than its gas-powered sibling, the 335i, at nearly every engine and vehicle speed.



Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
User currently offlineMasterBean From UK - England, joined Apr 2010, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Get ready everybody for a massive argument that includes loads of random pointless facts stating that something is better than something else because it just is and I said so so there.

Anyhow, a person will buy a car because they want that version, so deciding which is better is a non conclusive thing. I like Caterhams yet some would say they're completely pointless and useless and that might be true. Petrol is good, so is diesel and some people don't care about the mileage or the torque or how much it cost to fill up. They buy the car 'cos it's pink.


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

From a purely financial point of view, diesels only make sense if you drive a lot (over 20.000km per year but depending on specific vehicle), there are a few minor ownership cost difference and resale value but overall they cancel each other.

From then onwards, it's all down to personal choice.

People like diesels for the instant kick and tons of torque, people like petrol because want to rev high and petrol smells better.

Me, I prefer the best of both words: a turbocharged petrol 


User currently offlineklm77 From Canada, joined Sep 2009, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1969 times:

I know that when I stated that diesels can annoy people with the sound and can become smelly if they idle a long time, I was referring to the older generations of TDI's so I should have mentioned that. My neighbour has a 2000 VW Jetta TDI and when he starts that car you can hear the tractor like sound. If idling for 20 min, it will start to smell. Though of course as many have mentioned, you couldn't even tell with new cars if they are diesel. I was just in a R class Bluetec a week ago, and if the driver didn't tell me the car was diesel, I would've never guessed in a thousand years at how quiet the engine was.

User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2598 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1951 times:

Quoting Shamrock137 (Reply 15):
Take the BMW 3 series, if you order the diesel with 175 bhp you get 258 lb·ft of torque and a 0-60 time of 7.9 seconds. Comparability, with the 175 bhp petrol engine you get 155 lb·ft of torque and a 0-60 time of 8.1 seconds.



Would you mind to post a link to those engines? I tried to find them, but BMW Canada lists 2.5 litre straight six as the smallest, at BMW USA it's the 2.8 litre straight six...
BMW's German site doesn't list a 175 hp diesel (or petrol for that matter). The only models with same power in diesel and petrol version are the 318i and 318d. Both rated at 143 PS, no torque listed. I couldn't find the technical data, but I strongly suspect that we're comparing a DI turbodiesel with a naturally aspirated gasoline engine with indirect fuel injection. The price difference between the two (2650 Teuro) supports this. So, apples to oranges again.

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 13):
So the 3% fuel cost premium here in Australia def works to diesel's advantage.



The price premium for diesel would be probably larger, but it's offset by different taxation. Heck, in many countries diesel is cheaper because of the huge difference in excise tax. The largest difference I've ever seen was in France in 1995; 4 FFr/litre compared to 5.60 FFr/litre.

I have a feeling that this price difference was a driving force behind development of really useful diesel engines. Small diesels were around since forever, however they were nothing to write home about (who ever tried to cross the Brenner Pass in VW Caddy equipped with a classic diesel engine knows what I'm talking about). The TDi from VW and similar designs from other manufacturers changed everything.

Gasoline is making a come-back as Mitsubishi's GDI was developed by VW (and others) into a brilliant engine concept that is becoming mainstream now.


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 1 day ago) and read 1905 times:

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 18):
I love the yuppie sounding names...EcoBoost? Really?

Just like 'FLEXFUEL' on a Chevy Tahoe (or similar). Sorry, chief, but you are really not fooling anyone.

I don't need to fool anybody. Chief.

Fact is, gas engine technology has largely caught up to diesel. You might want to check the specs of that Ford Ecoboost 3.5L V-6 they are offering in their trucks, for example before getting snippy. You might learn something. 365 hp with 420 lb.-ft. torque. Or the very soon coming-to-N America I-4 2.0 with 230 bhp (170 kW), and torque of at least 240 lb·ft (325 N·m). Or the latest EcoBoost engine, a turbocharged 1.0-liter three-cylinder direct-injection gasoline unit that returns nearly 60 mpg (US) and emits less than 100 g/km of CO2, set for use in the B-Max.

Chief.

[Edited 2011-03-03 09:38:42]

25 Bongodog1964 : I've three diesel engined vehicles, two Fords and one Vauxhall which has a BMW diesel engine. The Ford engines are far superior to the BMW in terms of
26 Post contains images airportugal310 : Wow...way to COMPLETELY miss the point. Chief.
27 Bogota : In my opinion nothing beats the punch of a newer generation diesel engine, and now with the silence of newer generation petrol engines, diesel beat th
28 Kent350787 : You may be right - I'm not quite sure about them in Australia. I filled up with diesel 20 minutes a go and it was $1.397/l for diesel, $1.369/l for p
29 airportugal310 : I'm not completely up to spec on as to why we don't have more diesel automobiles in the US...can someone clue me in?
30 cpd : Q7 V12 TDI sounds just like a normal V12 engine, and goes like stink! Sounds good too. But that's what 500hp does, and a modest 4000rpm or so rev ran
31 prebennorholm : Slightly off topic, the March journal of the Royal Danish Aeroclub brings a test of a Piper PA-28 which had its Lycoming O-320 exchanged with a German
32 Kent350787 : I've asked the question before and many people suggest it's a perception thing ie. diesels are only for smelly, dirty smoky trucks. Modern diesels we
33 JJJ : A lof of factors. For one, Cadillac tried to introduce diesels in the late 70s but the engines were problematic. That created an image that still lin
34 francoflier : I haven't driven the very last generation diesel engines yet, but I still have a bitter taste from my experience driving the previous ones. Yes, the t
35 Bogota : I think the US is a market where perceptions take longer to change, I lived there 20 years ago and I still visit regularly and always hear the same s
36 Garpd : I think these days in terms of economy and eco friendlyness, Petrol and Diesel cars are on par with each other. Fuel economy mostly depends on your dr
37 GST : Considering at this is an aviation forum, I'm shocked that no one has picked out the obvious (or maybe they have but I didn't register)...You can put
38 Garpd : And also illegal to use in cars. If the police are behind you and smell it, you're likely to get a huge fine, the customs and excise van towing your
39 GST : Here in the UK maybe, but not everywhere.
40 RayChuang : While diesel engines have pretty much overcome their "no high end power" and engine clatter issues, they still haven't completely overcome the problem
41 Bogota : Interesting point of view as my understanding is that new diesel technology is more enviromentally cleaner than petrol technology. That is if your cou
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