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Human Rights Prevail In Illinois  
User currently offlinespeedygonzales From Norway, joined Sep 2007, 729 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1864 times:

Some happy news from Illinois. Gov. Quinn signed a bill abolishing death penalty wedensday 9.3.
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03...s.death.penalty/index.html?npt=NP1

Hopefully more states and countries will follow and abolish this barbaric medieval practice.


Las Malvinas son Argentinas
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39854 posts, RR: 74
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1854 times:

I'm sure the Community Organizers on the South Side of Chicago are happy that the killers of Derrion Albert will get to live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-Y9t5PxmD0&feature=related



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8703 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1829 times:

Quoting speedygonzales (Thread starter):
Hopefully more states and countries will follow and abolish this barbaric medieval practice.

   Revenge is not the same as justice.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1818 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
I'm sure the Community Organizers on the South Side of Chicago are happy that the killers of Derrion Albert will get to live.

Because rotting away in a prison for the rest of his life is all "happy happy, joy joy".  


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39854 posts, RR: 74
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1808 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3):
Because rotting away in a prison for the rest of his life is all "happy happy, joy joy".

For many criminals it is.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1788 times:

And others gets to spend the time being someone elses "playmate".

And in those cases where it goes all wrong, and a convicted person is subsequently acquitted, him/her not being dead is usually a good thing.

[Edited 2011-03-10 06:59:15 by SA7700]

User currently offlineTu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1200 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1749 times:

I understand Superfly's point that some criminals enjoy life in prison, however, speaking from my point of view, I would rather die than live in a high security prison, spending 23 hours a day in a 3x4m cell.


I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7884 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1676 times:

I'm against the death penalty but at the same time I'm for a miserable life in prison instead. Call me cruel and unusual, but if they are stuck in a cell all day and all night with nothing to do, serves them right I say


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1642 times:

It amazes me that people still think that animals who kill others in cold blood deserve any rights at all.


"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently onlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8703 posts, RR: 43
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1610 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 8):
animals who kill others in cold blood

Hmm... there's loads of predators, birds of prey and whatnot around who do that on a pretty regular basis.

...or were you getting at something else?   



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6576 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1604 times:
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Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 8):
It amazes me that people still think that animals who kill others in cold blood deserve any rights at all.

But the Bible tells you so..



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1535 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1590 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 9):
there's loads of predators, birds of prey and whatnot around who do that on a pretty regular basis.

Do they kill their own species? Little unfair to compare the two, if you know what I'm saying

-DiamondFlyer


User currently onlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8703 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1555 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 11):
Do they kill their own species?

Certainly - the praying mantis and black widow come to mind.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 11):
Little unfair to compare the two, if you know what I'm saying

The "animal" reference was in reply no. 8, which I didn't post.  



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinespeedygonzales From Norway, joined Sep 2007, 729 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1545 times:

Death penalty has never been, and never will be, about justice or deterrence. It's pure revenge. Murdering people and calling it justice is the ultimate hypocrisy.

Besides the fact that murder, also in the name of 'justice', is a horrible crime, death penalty has shown itself to be an extremely ineffective deterrent. The best argument against it, IMO, is that there's a non-zero chance of murdering an innocent. The US has a long and shameful history of doing this, and other countries with poorer legal protection are probably worse still.


People who can justify murder has something wired seriously wrong between their ears.



Las Malvinas son Argentinas
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1535 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 9):
Hmm... there's loads of predators, birds of prey and whatnot around who do that on a pretty regular basis.

They do not kill their own.

Quoting aloges (Reply 12):

Certainly - the praying mantis and black widow come to mind.

I'd like to think humans are slightly above them in intelligence and such.

Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 13):
Death penalty has never been, and never will be, about justice or deterrence. It's pure revenge. Murdering people and calling it justice is the ultimate hypocrisy.

Anyone who claims "justice is served" really means "I got my revenge". This is not about justice;

Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 13):
death penalty has shown itself to be an extremely ineffective deterrent.

nor is it about deterrence. It's about removing a danger to innocent lives from the public, permanently, and without undue cost.

For the record, I do believe the death penalty should only be used on those who either show no remorse or express pride in their unjustified killing. They are a threat to everyone and they need to be eliminated. It's not about revenge, it's about survival.

And frankly, the current system IS broken. It's disgusting that the average wait time on death row numbers in the decades.

Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 13):

People who can justify murder has something wired seriously wrong between their ears.

My doctor would disagree. (I seriously love how people question my mental health when they disagree with me. It's hilarious).



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently onlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8703 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 14):
They do not kill their own.

Oh, yes they do:

Quote:
Infanticide

Infanticide is a common practice in most mammals. Male lions use infanticide to get rid of offspring in a newly acquired pride that are not genetically related to the male coalition. Solitary males are also capable of killing the offspring of an encountered pride. Female lions have also been observed to kill cubs from a rival pride, but they would never kill cubs from their own pride. The dead offspring are sometimes consumed as an energy source and other times they are simply just eradicated for the sake of it. Older cubs and sub-adults have a better chance of being able to escape incoming infanticidal males than younger cubs.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 14):
I'd like to think humans are slightly above them in intelligence and such.

OK, I agree, but then why did you post something about animals? Were you calling convicted criminals "animals"?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5598 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1504 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 15):

Oh, yes they do:

I stand corrected.

Quoting aloges (Reply 15):
OK, I agree, but then why did you post something about animals? Were you calling convicted criminals "animals"?

The human species is an animal, and a dangerous one at that. True, we have greater intelligence than any other, but that doesn't mean we don't have baser instincts.

I guess I'm pointing out the problem with trying to claim the moral high ground when we allow a direct threat to survival and happiness to continue to exist.

Think of it as the problem with The Operative from Serenity. You try to make a perfect world, but if you let that evil continue than that world won't ever be; but if you remove that evil, you still have no place in that perfect world.

I argue for the pragmatic approach: you take the worst, the ones with no hope and nothing but malice in their blood, and you permanently remove them from the equation.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineThorben From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1394 times:

  

This is another step into the right direction. I hope one day we'll see the end of this barbaric practice all around the world.

   to you, Governor Quinn.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
I'm sure the Community Organizers on the South Side of Chicago are happy that the killers of Derrion Albert will get to live.

I don't know anything about it, but I'm happy that he will not be executed.

Quoting aloges (Reply 2):
Revenge is not the same as justice.

100% agreed.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 4):
Quoting CPH-R (Reply 3):
Because rotting away in a prison for the rest of his life is all "happy happy, joy joy".

For many criminals it is.

With all respect, I think you're completely wrong. People have different perceptions of how much freedom they need, but I don't think anybody would enjoy life in prison. People could arrange themselves with it, but it would still not be happiness.

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 6):
I would rather die than live in a high security prison, spending 23 hours a day in a 3x4m cell.

I feel the same, especially when there would be zero chance of ever coming out.

Quoting aloges (Reply 12):
Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 11):
Do they kill their own species?

Certainly - the praying mantis and black widow come to mind.
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 14):
I'd like to think humans are slightly above them in intelligence and such.

A lot of animals kill their own, crocodiles, antelopes, lions, even monkeys. It is some weird old romantic thought to think that animals are better than humans in that regard.

Quoting speedygonzales (Reply 13):

100% agreed.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 14):
My doctor would disagree. (I seriously love how people question my mental health when they disagree with me. It's hilarious).

Agreeing to the death penalty is not a question of mental health, it is a lack of maturity rather. 12-15 years ago I was for it as well, but then I matured. So people who are for it are back at a less mature and more childish state.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 16):
I argue for the pragmatic approach: you take the worst, the ones with no hope and nothing but malice in their blood, and you permanently remove them from the equation.

Remove them from the equation? One can remove people to the prison and let them go when they have done their sentence to give them a chance to start again. If they are really so bad, that they are too dangerous, they should go to a mental institution. But killing them? No way.


User currently onlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8703 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1392 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 16):
The human species is an animal, and a dangerous one at that. True, we have greater intelligence than any other, but that doesn't mean we don't have baser instincts.

"Homo homini lupus", that sort of thing?

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 16):
I argue for the pragmatic approach: you take the worst, the ones with no hope and nothing but malice in their blood, and you permanently remove them from the equation.

That's where we disagree. I don't think it's any man's decision to end the life of another man (or woman, of course, but that's beside the point). No matter what the criminal has done, the safety of society does not take precedence over the human right to life - especially when facilities exist that can keep society safe from brutal murderers without taking their lives.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

Nous sommes tous des assassins (1952)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0044977/

True then and true now.

In World War II, the illiterate, starving and alcoholic twenty years old René Le Guen fights to survive and lives with his dysfunctional family in a slum. The French Resistance invites and teaches him to kill Germans and traitors. When the war ends, he continues to kill and is arrested, judged and sentenced to death in the guillotine.

But in what way was the state different when it guillotined him?

Quoting Thorben (Reply 17):
This is another step into the right direction. I hope one day we'll see the end of this barbaric practice all around the world.

to you, Governor Quinn.

     


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10699 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1380 times:

Very good. Humans shouldnt kill, not even by law. Life imprisonment can and often will be a worse penalty than death.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19559 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1323 times:

I have no problem with the death penalty, per se. Someone like Jeffrey Dahmer should have been executed immediately with minimal fuss.

What I have a problem with is the assurance that the party is guilty.

There are entirely too many people who have sat on Death Row only to be found innocent decades later.

I have often felt that execution should be something that criminals are offered, but not forced to do. If someone pleads guilty and doesn't want to be a burden on society, then that individual should have the choice between life in prison, or death.

I personally would choose death.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39854 posts, RR: 74
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1254 times:

Quoting Thorben (Reply 17):
With all respect, I think you're completely wrong.
Quoting Thorben (Reply 17):
I don't know anything about it


Well, well.



To those of us that value freedom, life in prison would be hell. To those that don't value freedom, life in prison as just another way of life and still be able to have influence. I'd like to elaborate more but those comments were deleted.
It may be hard for some of you to wrap you mind around it but many criminal minded people have no problem with life in prison at all.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAgill From Sweden, joined Feb 2004, 1010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1238 times:

Quoting na (Reply 20):

Very good. Humans shouldnt kill, not even by law. Life imprisonment can and often will be a worse penalty than death.

But saying that must as bad as supporting death penalty since it wasn't supposed to be about revenge right?   


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