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Dems Even More Off The Wall Stuff  
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2127 times:

Being in the minority means you have to come up with even more off the wall type of stuff to get mentioned. Like Comparing Gen. Petraeus to Charlie Sheen,,,,,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tQDAOPp0zQ&amp

And what's this? National values?

http://video.search.yahoo.com/search...&fr2=tab-news&n=21&tnr=20&y=Search

Guess you have to do what you have to do to get in the news.

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Nacy Pelosi: “Democrats Have Long Fought For Fiscal Responsibility”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOWoQ...oP0I&feature=player_embedded#at=12

In the Merry Old Land of Oz... reality takes a hike.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineCargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1271 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2061 times:

Tell me, conservative friends, was the spending spree by Republicans over the last decade - while simultaneously cutting revenues - "fiscal responsibility?" Glass houses.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2052 times:

Quoting dxing (Thread starter):
Being in the minority means you have to come up with even more off the wall type of stuff to get mentioned. Like Comparing Gen. Petraeus to Charlie Sheen,,,,,,

Hey don't dismiss Charlie Sheen so quickly, he's more popular amongst independent voters than Sarah Palin;

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51484.html

Even 1/4 of Republicans prefer Sheen to Palin.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2036 times:

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 2):
Tell me, conservative friends, was the spending spree by Republicans over the last decade - while simultaneously cutting revenues - "fiscal responsibility?" Glass houses.

2007 Budget (the last one controlled by the GOP before the Dems took over Congress) had a deficit of $160 billion, or 1.2% of GDP, and total outlays of $2.7 trillion. This includes all supplements, such as the Iraq Surge costs.

2011 is estimated to be in deficit by $1.3 trillion in the red, or 8.3% of GDP, on outlays of $3.8 trillion.

Sorry, but you are trying to say that a madman with a slingshot is just as bad as a madman with an AK-47. Both are bad, one is a lot worse.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2029 times:

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 2):
Tell me, conservative friends, was the spending spree by Republicans over the last decade - while simultaneously cutting revenues - "fiscal responsibility?" Glass houses.

So that was reason to basically qaudruple the spending over the last 2 years? While not raising taxes?


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 5):
So that was reason to basically qaudruple the spending over the last 2 years? While not raising taxes?

Um, where have you been? The reason for quadrupled spending over the last 2 years while not raising taxes was THE WORST RECESSION since the great depression.

Do you have a reason for the spending increases during the Bush years?



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2018 times:

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 6):
Um, where have you been? The reason for quadrupled spending over the last 2 years while not raising taxes was THE WORST RECESSION since the great depression.

The recession was officially over 2 years ago. Next excuse please.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently onlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8274 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1994 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
In the Merry Old Land of Oz... reality takes a hike.

As opposed to the Merry Old Land of the Republicans were eliminating taxes for the rich is Priority One?

Quoting dxing (Reply 5):
So that was reason to basically qaudruple the spending over the last 2 years? While not raising taxes?

Taxes should have been raised, but the Republicans were too afraid of the Tea Party folks that they would let the country sink deeper into debt. Saves having to speak the truth in public.

As far as spending, government spending in my city has been aggressive and effective. And long term investments. Bridges and roads that put a lot of people to work and can provide many years of service to the city.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
The recession was officially over 2 years ago. Next excuse please.

So a bunch of folks who are paid to guess (economists) think the Great Recession was so easily solved within a month or two of Obama taking office? BFD. For every one of those guessers there are multiple companies operating as if the Great Recession was continuing. Holding onto cash, avoiding investments in growth and keeping employment down


User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 6):
Um, where have you been? The reason for quadrupled spending over the last 2 years while not raising taxes was THE WORST RECESSION since the great depression.

Of course it has to be the "WORST" to satiate the narcissitic crowd in charge now. I remember the recession of 82-84 as being a lot worse.

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 6):
Do you have a reason for the spending increases during the Bush years?

Yes, George Bush was not a fiscal conservative.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Taxes should have been raised, but the Republicans were too afraid of the Tea Party folks that they would let the country sink deeper into debt. Saves having to speak the truth in public.

Since the tea party didn't come into being until after the 2008 election, and the recession was already happening, no to mention the democratic party having absolute control over both Houses of Congress as well as the White House, that statment is just ridiculous and with absolutely no merit on its face.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
As far as spending, government spending in my city has been aggressive and effective. And long term investments. Bridges and roads that put a lot of people to work and can provide many years of service to the city.

Since only a tiny fraction of stimulus spending when to roads and bridges my guess would be that those projects were already in the works prior to the recession.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1986 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
As opposed to the Merry Old Land of the Republicans were eliminating taxes for the rich is Priority One?

I thought it very funny a few months ago when the "Tax Cuts for the Rich" absolutely had to be extended because of their huge impact on the middle class, that EVERYONE was going to see their taxes go up. And now they are "tax cuts for the rich" again.    
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
So a bunch of folks who are paid to guess (economists) think the Great Recession was so easily solved within a month or two of Obama taking office?

He (nor the government) had little to do with it. If you stay out of the way, economies are very good at fixing themselves. Governments are pretty good at fouling things up on the other hand - witness the 2008 meltdown.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineCargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1271 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1949 times:

Quote:
The recession was officially over 2 years ago. Next excuse please.

Tell that to the millions of Americans out of a job. Oh wait...conservatives don't care about them. Moot point.

Quote:
Of course it has to be the "WORST" to satiate the narcissitic crowd in charge now. I remember the recession of 82-84 as being a lot worse.

Then you remember incorrectly. It's easily the greatest economic disruption since the depression, even factoring in the lingering economic turmoil in the years following the first oil crisis (remember sky high inflation and 10% unemployment?). But that's our country, there are other close allies of ours for whom this is not the worst recession since the depression - Great Britain, for example, can look back on the wonderful years of the 1970's and think "well it's not that bad right now." Not so for Americans.

Quote:

Yes, George Bush was not a fiscal conservative.

And yet, we're supposed to trust conservatives now because they say they have found religion on spending. Many of the people there now are the same people who were there during the Bush era, and it isn't the President alone who controls spending. Basically, the entire argument for allowing conservatives to have their way with spending now is that we are to forget how they acted over the last decade.

If I had a track record like they do, I wouldn't expect people to suddenly trust me - particularly when Republican aims seem blatantly partisan.

Deregulating the financial industry, reducing government oversight, and cutting taxes while borrowing - the Reagan philosophy - that's what got us where we are today. And now you expect people to just forget all this an support conservatives because they say they've changed.

No deal.

Quote:
I thought it very funny a few months ago when the "Tax Cuts for the Rich" absolutely had to be extended because of their huge impact on the middle class, that EVERYONE was going to see their taxes go up. And now they are "tax cuts for the rich" again.

Wow, that is deeply intellectually dishonest.

Tax cuts for the top earners are still tax cuts for the wealthy. The Republicans would not grant tax cuts for the middle class unless the top earners, the very wealthiest Americans, were also given tax cuts. They effectively held middle class people hostage to get what they wanted - lower taxes for the super wealthy.

There was never any question about whether or not tax cuts for the very wealthy have an effect on the middle class. They clearly do not - "trickle down" has been a failure since it was first conceived and since you remember the 1980's so well, perhaps you should look back to that time for mountains of historical evidence on this point.

If the Republicans did not get what they wanted, they were going to use the filibuster to make sure that everyone's taxes went up. It was a winning issue for the Dems, and I don't know why they didn't use it.

Quote:
He (nor the government) had little to do with it. If you stay out of the way, economies are very good at fixing themselves. Governments are pretty good at fouling things up on the other hand - witness the 2008 meltdown.

The 2008 economic meltdown can be traced directly to the pulling back of regulations and government involvement in the financial industry. I know conservatives love to pretend that it's all Fannie and Freddie's fault, but that simply isn't true, and as somebody who had a front row seat for the whole thing, I have to tell you that perpetuating that myth forever won't make it so.

Why did we have an economic meltdown? Deregulating - including the destruction of Glass-Steagall and the promotion of the idea that the market was entirely self-policing. The result was appointees like Alphonso Jackson, President Bush's HUD secretary. When Jackson was confronted by congressional democrats about the growing sub-prime problem, he responded that there was no problem, and did nothing on it. They talked to him as early as 2004 about it. Later on, he had to resign after it was revealed he had been giving sweetheart contracts to friends.

Even Alan Greenspan admitted he was wrong about self-regulation.

It is honestly amazing to me how people can selectively remember things in such incredibly distorted ways mere months after the actual events have occurred.


User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1935 times:

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 11):
Then you remember incorrectly.

I"ll disagree with your coments. Unemployment was higher, interest rates were higher, housing foreclosures were just as bad, housing starts were just as abysmal. Jobs that required only a minimal education were going away and not coming back. Manufacturing was making its big exit. This last recession caught many people because unlike the 82-84 recession they had gone deeply in debt to keep up with the Jones next door. Much different. Also different was the response and the recovery. Much faster back in Reagan's day.

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 11):
Basically, the entire argument for allowing conservatives to have their way with spending now is that we are to forget how they acted over the last decade.

And we are supposed to forget the 30 years prior to 1994? Not to mention the fact that the democrats in charge of the House of Representative's abdicated their fiscal responsibility to come up with a budget going into an election year?

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 11):
Deregulating the financial industry, reducing government oversight, and cutting taxes while borrowing - the Reagan philosophy - that's what got us where we are today. And now you expect people to just forget all this an support conservatives because they say they've changed

We could trade charge for charge but that is a waste of time. In order to correct the situation big budget cuts have to be made. In defense, in entitlements, and in discretionary spending. Further delay is as useless as standing in the well of the House and comparing Gen. Petraeus to Charlie Sheen.


User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4022 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1840 times:

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 11):
Why did we have an economic meltdown? Deregulating - including the destruction of Glass-Steagall and the promotion of the idea that the market was entirely self-policing.

Ah, the good old "Glass-Steagall" argument. If it's a regulation then it must be OK, right, even if basically everywhere else in the world commercial banks and brokerage houses are one and the same, and they seem to be doing fine. It must be great being a Liberal and having such a simplistic world view.

Ok, hot shot, since you know so much about regulation, please tell me ONE (just one) paragraph of Glass-Steagall that would have prevented the current crisis. Go ahead, take your time, I will be here all week. I will even wait for you to try to find something before pointing out the items in Glass-Steagall that would have made this crisis much, much worse (e.g., by preventing J.P. Morgan from rescuing Bear Stearns, or Bank of America for doing the same with Merrill Lynch).



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlinetbar220 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7013 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1815 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):

The recession was officially over 2 years ago. Next excuse please.

I'm "officially" stunned that you believe that. Tell that to all the millions of people who are out of jobs. Tell that to millions of people who took pay cuts, health benefit cuts, retirement plan cuts, pension cuts, all just to keep their jobs. Tell that to the 16% of this country who live below the poverty line.

Do those people mean nothing to you? Is it fine to say the recession is over as long as all those people don't have jobs? Or food on their plates? Or heat in their homes? Guess they don't matter huh.

Oh wait, I forgot, its all the fault of teachers, policeman, firefighters, and EMT's. Those damn public (a.k.a. guvern-mint) workers leeching away at this country for their own greedy needs.

*sigh*



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2727 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1807 times:

Quoting TWFirst (Reply 6):
Um, where have you been? The reason for quadrupled spending over the last 2 years while not raising taxes was THE WORST RECESSION since the great depression.

Do you have a reason for the spending increases during the Bush years?

Well Bush did inherit the Tech recession and 9/11....And the recession is over now so what is the next excuse.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1794 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 15):

I don't think the recession is over. The economy on paper might be recovering but upemployment for March 2011 is at 10.2%. That isn't good.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineCargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1271 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1782 times:

Quote:
Ok, hot shot, since you know so much about regulation, please tell me ONE (just one) paragraph of Glass-Steagall that would have prevented the current crisis. Go ahead, take your time, I will be here all week. I will even wait for you to try to find something before pointing out the items in Glass-Steagall that would have made this crisis much, much worse (e.g., by preventing J.P. Morgan from rescuing Bear Stearns, or Bank of America for doing the same with Merrill Lynch).


I could post the entire text of the act here if you like, but the fact is, the tearing down of that one piece of legislation - enacted to, in part, prevent exactly the kinds of manipulation we saw in the years from 2004-2008 - is a direct antecedent of the 2008 financial crisis. But it isn't the kind of easy, linear connection that makes for great storytelling. The elimination of Glass-Steagall - a bipartisan thing that had overwhelming support - merely allowed the stage to be set. The actual players and actors would not have been on that stage it if hadn't been for this.

Quote:
It must be great being a Liberal and having such a simplistic world view.

To be a liberal is to question everything, including your own views. I think we both understand that the world is many, many shades of gray and not black and white.

[Edited 2011-03-18 08:24:06]

User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1695 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 3):

Hey don't dismiss Charlie Sheen so quickly, he's more popular amongst independent voters than Sarah Palin;

And rightly so. He, at least, has a chance to return to some form of reality. . .

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
The recession was officially over 2 years ago. Next excuse please.

This claim is generally recognized to be inaccurate. As a practical matter, the economic landscape is still pretty ugly. As well, the recent surge in commodities trading will do no one anywhere any favors and will trigger the next phase of a W shaped recession.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
For every one of those guessers there are multiple companies operating as if the Great Recession was continuing. Holding onto cash, avoiding investments in growth and keeping employment down

And as long as that's the case, it really doesn't matter if the recession is 'over', a lot of people are still a lot worse off than when it began...


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 14 hours ago) and read 1471 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
This claim is generally recognized to be inaccurate.

How convenient. A recession is defined be periods of negative GDP growth, and now that Obama is in the white house, that definition is subject to all sorts of umms and ahhhs.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/GDP-Growth.aspx?Symbol=USD



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 12 hours ago) and read 1446 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
And rightly so. He, at least, has a chance to return to some form of reality. .

Somebody had to replace Michael Jackson as the prime hollywood whacko, Charlie got the job.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
This claim is generally recognized to be inaccurate.

Then you had better tell the President and his staff that.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
And as long as that's the case, it really doesn't matter if the recession is 'over', a lot of people are still a lot worse off than when it began...

And until they get some real leadership from the White House it will continue. You can't bash business in an election cycle and then kiss up to them afterward as if you said nothing, and expect them to have any confidence in your leadership.


User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 11 hours ago) and read 1428 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
In the Merry Old Land of Oz... reality takes a hike.

Hey, deficits are not popular down here and the current small Fed deficit in Oz is due to the 2008 collapse in the world financial markets masterminded by guess who? Want to check out our unemployment rate? Just you be careful what you say about the Merry old land of Oz!  


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2727 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 10 hours ago) and read 1408 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 16):
I don't think the recession is over. The economy on paper might be recovering but upemployment for March 2011 is at 10.2%. That isn't good.
Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
This claim is generally recognized to be inaccurate.

Sorry guys but the recession has been over for a bit. You do know that it is based on the GDP. Not unemployment or commodities trading.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinedfwrevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 10 hours ago) and read 1405 times:

Quoting tbar220 (Reply 14):
I'm "officially" stunned that you believe that. Tell that to all the millions of people who are out of jobs.

Ever heard the expression that 20% of the people do 80% of the work in an organization? More than one business has probably come to realize that they are either better, about the same, or not significantly worse-off without the extra hands. There's a lot of jobs that won't be coming back.


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2727 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 10 hours ago) and read 1403 times:

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 23):
Ever heard the expression that 20% of the people do 80% of the work in an organization? More than one business has probably come to realize that they are either better, about the same, or not significantly worse-off without the extra hands. There's a lot of jobs that won't be coming back




Which is why Unions help kill Companies and jobs. They protect that bottom percent that gives or accomplishes nothing to the job or product.



OMG-Obama Must Go
25 AGM100 : Well he may hum and hah ... but the economy stinks in every possible way. I just got off our Wednesday conference call with a very large Aviation cap
26 Post contains links AGM100 : Rush throwes it down on the Democrats today .... if you dare ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQlCmEjw4R0
27 seb146 : And the right wing used the promise of job creation to get elected. Where are the jobs?
28 WarRI1 : I tried, honestly to watch the man, I could not, please no more of his glop. Mercy please.
29 WarRI1 : Like a breath of fresh air, a dose of reality, the truth about who caused the collapse, it was not Obama for sure. When you read some of this bull, y
30 Baroque : Somewhere or other I am on record in a,net as pointing out that the problems were evident in late 2007 - a time when Obama was hardly a front runner.
31 Post contains images AGM100 : Well .... every word of it happened .... its not like he is making it up. So you have trouble listening to someone tell the truth ? The Democrats did
32 Post contains images windy95 : I guess I am not the only one who is not surprised that the left on here did not start an Obama Ghraib thread. They will do anything to protect the c
33 Post contains links bhill : "Stephen Harper, the prime minister of Canada, is among the many Canadians who regularly remind the world that their country’s banking system was le
34 WarRI1 : My fault, I should have made it clear, it is the messenger, that I cannot watch. I try to never deny the truth.
35 AGM100 : Well I am glad they didnt ... Maybe ..but scale and complexity of the mortgage industry alone in the US compared to Canada lends doubt on that claim.
36 WarRI1 : Do you really think we own anything? Try not paying your mortgage, or your taxes. The state owns everything, we borrow it, as long as we can pay. The
37 Baroque : Well while on the subject, approx stats for Japan are the US housing crisis BEFORE Obama took office took about 10% off the Japan GDP. The 9.0 quake,
38 windy95 : Thank God there is not.
39 Post contains links Baroque : Nice to know that some are still following a variety of the old fox hunt adage of the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible. As to an Obama Abu Graib
40 AGM100 : And it will be a grey place ... clones and factory workers lined up for rations of soup while pleading to the master for gifts. See the human spirit
41 Post contains images dxing : Huh? What? Him again? Wake me when you've got something new to rant about.... I'll second that. I own my place as well, and everything in it as well
42 bhill : AGM100, I'm pretty sure that if the banks in the US were not allowed to wheel and deal in the mortgage backed security markets and there was tighter R
43 Ken777 : I'm talking about the continuation of the Bush Tax Cuts that was on the table for the 2010 election. The Tea Folks were certainly wrapping themselves
44 dxing : Cargolex was not. I don't believe it. Major road projects, the kinds that spend the kind of money you suggest, take years of study and engineering be
45 Baroque : Interesting that you have such a detailed picture of what a world government would be like. Just in case you do not realise this, there never has bee
46 WarRI1 : Good point, I forgot about Eminent Domain. I used to believe in private property myself, not now. They have used it here also to benefit the public,
47 AGM100 : Keeping it simple .... (for me) ... governments role is to provide security ,enforce laws , protect commerce and infrastructure put in place by the p
48 Post contains links Baroque : Well history seems to show that the US Bush led goverment was unable to cope with the financial collapse spreading from the US and arguably the criti
49 Post contains links AGM100 : I agree ... its betrayal by our leaders on a grand scale for political purposes. What they did was stave of the inevitable ... like starving to death
50 Post contains images Baroque : If we all died a quick death - as would likely have happened had the G20 not acted about as they did - surely "our kids" would not have survived so i
51 AGM100 : Figuratively Baroque ... I believe that a "crash " would given us a chance to really reform and rebuild over top of a corrupt system. I think the Ame
52 Baroque : Well only if you regard many of its actions as indefensible. Which does seem to be the case. But lo and behold, even the indefensible has its defende
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