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Canadian Government Falls  
User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2606 times:

The Conservative minority government has fallen, having been found in contempt of Parliament: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/03/25/pol-defeat.html

As a consequence, Canadians will be going to the polls in early May to elect a new government.

This is the first time a Canadian government has been found in contempt of Parliament.


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26338 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2585 times:

Yay. This government has ridden Chretien's economic coattails, while seemingly returning to the corporatist corruption of the Mulrooney days. Its about time.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

Clearly the minority in Canada is being suppressed. We should immediately begin bombing in support of the rebels!!!      

User currently offlinearrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2530 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
Yay. This government has ridden Chretien's economic coattails, while seemingly returning to the corporatist corruption of the Mulrooney days. Its about time

Don't hold your breath. As bad as the Tories have been, the other guys are far worse. And if the polling has any validity at all you're more likely to see a Tory majority this time.

Quoting dxing (Reply 2):
Clearly the minority in Canada is being suppressed. We should immediately begin bombing in support of the rebels

  

Aren't we close to the 200th anniversary of the War of 1812? Maybe a re-enactment is in order? We'll take Detroit again, although gawd knows why we'd want it. You can have Toronto.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2515 times:

Here comes a big waste of ~300M CAD, for most likely the same outcome, another Conservative minority.

User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1827 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2503 times:

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 4):
Here comes a big waste of ~300M CAD, for most likely the same outcome, another Conservative minority.

This kind of rhetoric frustrates me a little bit. We would be having an election in only 18 months anyways.

Parliament was not working. There were ethical questions regarding the current government. Within our current system that means we need an election. That's parliamentary democracy for you, whether you like it or not.

I mean, c'mon... Would people prefer we just didn't have elections at all? Sure, it would save us some money...


User currently offlineronglimeng From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2457 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 5):
I mean, c'mon... Would people prefer we just didn't have elections at all? Sure, it would save us some money...


You certainly get that impression listening to man-in-the-street interviews! It bothers me that so many people in our democracy are so apathetic. People eventually get the kind of government they deserve.


User currently offlineAirCanada787 From Canada, joined Nov 2010, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 5):
This kind of rhetoric frustrates me a little bit. We would be having an election in only 18 months anyways.

Parliament was not working. There were ethical questions regarding the current government. Within our current system that means we need an election. That's parliamentary democracy for you, whether you like it or not.

I fully agree! Parliament was not working and there have been far to many ethical issues with this government, its pretty annoying that we are likely to end up with the same people in power however.



The mind, like a parachute, functions only when open.
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

Quoting arrow (Reply 3):
We'll take Detroit again, although gawd knows why we'd want it

Any bombing or shelling of Detroit would result in improvements to the city! Let fly!!!   


User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1276 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2312 times:

I would vote in this election if any of the parties had something to offer. Needless to say I will stay home this time.


You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
User currently offlinematthew11 From Canada, joined May 2009, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2287 times:

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 9):

I am in the same boat, nobody stands out.



Matt from YYC
User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Hopefully we won't get to see Harper and his cronies again.


The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1139 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

How the hell can an election cost $300CAD and how the hell does the Bloc Quebecois always manage to get seats in your parliament?


I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineronglimeng From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

I am disappointed with the comments from both of you guys in Replies (9) and (10).

Even if you don't see a difference in policy or behaviour at the level of the national party leaders, you can still vote on the basis of who your riding candidates are. Just get off your bums and attend an all-candidates meeting in the next month or so. Maybe that will reduce your apathy.


User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 12):
How the hell can an election cost $300CAD

That's $300 MILLION CAD.

Quoting tu204 (Reply 12):
how the hell does the Bloc Quebecois always manage to get seats in your parliament?

They get elected, like any other Member of Parliament.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineA346Dude From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1276 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2101 times:

Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 13):
I am disappointed with the comments from both of you guys in Replies (9) and (10).

Even if you don't see a difference in policy or behaviour at the level of the national party leaders, you can still vote on the basis of who your riding candidates are. Just get off your bums and attend an all-candidates meeting in the next month or so. Maybe that will reduce your apathy.

I don't have apathy.

I used to be really into politics and watched the campaigns very closely when I was a little younger. Then I paid attention for a couple years and realized almost everyone involved is, if not an outright liar, a master of telling half truths and shifting their positions to suit the political winds of the hour. I realized that by voting I was giving permission to govern to people of no integrity who I didn't trust or respect. So now I don't give them the satisfaction.



You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

Excuse my ignorance, but is politics in Canada similar to that down-under? Here it often seems that there are no substantive differences between the major parties and exchanges in Parliament (at least those we see on TV) are limited to rhetoric and personal abuse. Yet behind the scenes, the parties often work together in a much more co-operative manner. Is that the case in Canada?

What are the major differences between the various actors in Canada? What are the policy areas that result in real debate rather than opposition simply because there is an opposition? Do politicians in Canada have real principals and ideals (not idealism but practical ideas) that separate them?

I am asking because I am genuinely interested and if members in Canada can reply by outlining the differences without the usual "you did..." ,"so did you..." and childish point scoring that dominates discussion of politics in other threads, that would be useful.


User currently offlineczbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 971 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2070 times:

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 9):
I would vote in this election if any of the parties had something to offer. Needless to say I will stay home this time.
Quoting matthew11 (Reply 10):
I am in the same boat, nobody stands out.

All right. Your point is made. However there is something you can do. Spoil your ballot. Participate in the process- a process that, although it sounds cliche is nonetheless true, people died for your right.

So spoil your ballot. Give none of them satisfaction but register your dissatisfaction by going in there and, a) voting for all of them; or b) writing some choice words on your ballot. All the scrutineers for all the parties will definitely see it. Events like this make their way up the food chain (or down the food chain- depending on how you see it). It might not cause REAL change but at least you will have sent a message.

Quoting tu204 (Reply 12):
How the hell can an election cost $300CAD and how the hell does the Bloc Quebecois always manage to get seats in your parliament?

lol. $300 million dollars. And frankly, if all the politicians are busy in an election they're not spending $300 million on other stuff- which they would. So an election it is.

This really ticks me off... when we have unpopular governments we wish we could have them fired. We wish we could have an election. When we have a government that is underperforming but their shortcomings are not registering with the public (ie. they are too technical to report or too hard to cover by the media.... or the media is in bed with the government) then nobody cares.

More representatives are in the opposition than in the government. That means, although not necessarily always the case, that more Canadians voted against the government than for it in the previous election.

Want something different? DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. Campaign. Vote strategically.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 16):
Excuse my ignorance, but is politics in Canada similar to that down-under? Here it often seems that there are no substantive differences between the major parties and exchanges in Parliament (at least those we see on TV) are limited to rhetoric and personal abuse. Yet behind the scenes, the parties often work together in a much more co-operative manner. Is that the case in Canada?

Quokka- they all support the Queen. Except for the Bloc. Apart from that....   I'll take a stab at it later. Serious time constraints this morning.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 16):
I am asking because I am genuinely interested and if members in Canada can reply by outlining the differences without the usual "you did..." ,"so did you..." and childish point scoring that dominates discussion of politics in other threads, that would be useful.

Oh, you are either hilariously funny or unreasonably demanding. lol


User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1827 posts, RR: 23
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2052 times:

I just attended the NDP's official campaign launch at the Chateau Laurier.* Mr. Layton wasn't looking too great but he gave a decent speech - pretty much what I expected from him. I thought there was a fairly heavy focus on Western Canada. I think we're going to see the NDP target some key ridings in Vancouver and Edmonton. He also seemed to try to woo Quebec to an extent. I did notice quite a lack of anything in his speech specifically for Ontario.

I will be also going to the Liberals' campaign launch at another hotel in a few hours. I hope Mr. Ignatieff comes out very strongly against a coalition or he will just get destroyed by the Conservative rhetoric in the campaign.

*Disclaimer: I am NOT an NDP supporter. Just a political junkie who will go to as many events as possible!


User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1139 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Quoting MattRB (Reply 14):
That's $300 MILLION CAD.

My bad, I forgot to add the M. But tell me, why do the elections themselves cost that much to the taxpayer? They don't cost that much in Russia and we have freaking helicopters that fly to the Chukcha's herding villages (our version of your Inuit). And we have a population 4 times larger than yours. How?

[Edited 2011-03-27 10:32:58 by srbmod]


I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineAirCanada787 From Canada, joined Nov 2010, 280 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1951 times:

Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 13):
Even if you don't see a difference in policy or behaviour at the level of the national party leaders, you can still vote on the basis of who your riding candidates are.

Exactly, voter turn out is always getting lower, yet everyone still complains about the government. In the end someone will be elected to represent you and your riding everyone should at least thinking about who they want to represent them in Ottawa.

[Edited 2011-03-27 10:33:25 by srbmod]


The mind, like a parachute, functions only when open.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26338 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1908 times:

Quoting arrow (Reply 3):

Don't hold your breath. As bad as the Tories have been, the other guys are far worse. And if the polling has any validity at all you're more likely to see a Tory majority this time.

You are kidding, right? The last 2 major (Campbell was largely a place holder) Conservative PMs have been corrupt and backward, with the exception of Mulrooney's forcing Canada to move to the Loonie and Twonie. The Liberals have always been the best party for Canada.

As for the polling, its a visceral reaction. A week before the vote, Harper was getting destroyed in the polls. Once campaigning opens up, a real sense of where things are going will develop

Quoting tu204 (Reply 12):
how the hell does the Bloc Quebecois always manage to get seats in your parliament?

Um, because people in Quebec vote for them. In Quebec, it is pretty much a race between the Liberals and the Bloc. They are largely similar on social and political issues, with the difference being secession. That's why the Bloc coalitioned with Harper this time, despite deep ideological differences, because the Liberals are the threat to their power base.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 16):
Excuse my ignorance, but is politics in Canada similar to that down-under? Here it often seems that there are no substantive differences between the major parties and exchanges in Parliament (at least those we see on TV) are limited to rhetoric and personal abuse. Yet behind the scenes, the parties often work together in a much more co-operative manner. Is that the case in Canada?

Well, the fact that there has been a coalition for some time means that the parties have to work together to some extent, but I also think that is what is at the crux of this non-confidence vote. The Conservatives have hidden the costs of significant government programs from the other parties.

Quoting Quokka (Reply 16):
Do politicians in Canada have real principals and ideals (not idealism but practical ideas) that separate them?

The Liberals brought every, single good reform to Canadian law. That's what separates them.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 18):
I did notice quite a lack of anything in his speech specifically for Ontario.

I think the NDP's strength in Ontario is pretty stagnant. They probably won't lose or win seats.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 18):
He also seemed to try to woo Quebec to an extent.

Odd move, given that it is either Bloc/Parti or Liberal in Quebec. Neither the NDP nor the Conservatives really appeal to the average Quebecois.

[Edited 2011-03-27 10:36:27 by srbmod]


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1827 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1914 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
Well, the fact that there has been a coalition for some time means that the parties have to work together to some extent, but I also think that is what is at the crux of this non-confidence vote. The Conservatives have hidden the costs of significant government programs from the other parties.

I'm not totally sure what you're getting at. There has been no coalition government... Parties have been voting with the government but that does not mean there was a coalition.

I do appreciate an American's enthusiasm in our affairs though!  

[Edited 2011-03-26 15:36:41]

User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1827 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

I just attended the Liberal kickoff rally. It was a lot higher energy than I expected. It also had a big emphasis on the local candidates in the National Capital Region. We'll see how things go for them I guess... I really think the first week or so will determine the tone of this campaign. If the Liberal camp can avoid some Dion-esque gaffes they may do better than expected...

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26338 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 25):

I'm not totally sure what you're getting at. There has been no coalition government...

Sorry, I mean a minority government. Parliamentary systems are odd.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 25):

I do appreciate an American's enthusiasm in our affairs though!

Well, I'm practically Canadian at this point.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 greasespot : I am far from a stephen Harper supporter but I want noting to do with a govt that forms a coalition with the BLOC. Now it is great Iggy has come out a
26 Post contains links and images TheCol : Here's a little tidbit that should enlighten you about Canadian politics: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...civics-lesson-as-a-campaign-theme/ A
27 YVRLTN : Only ~30% of the nation voted last time right? Something to consider: what has all the fuss been about in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Bahrain, Yeme
28 czbbflier : OK, Quokka, you asked for it. 1. Major differences. 1. Bloc Quebecois, arguably lead by the best leader on Parliament Hill, Gilles Duceppe, it is a pa
29 A346Dude : Nope, they are two totally different things. If you are in the 49% and the 51% want to oppress you, you have no freedom in a democracy.
30 Quokka : Thank you for your detailed and informed summation. It certainly helps make some sense of the reports in the media that tend to emphasize the drama a
31 A346Dude : A couple late-night thoughts: 1) I think we are somewhat in disagreement but at least we both care about our country and are trying to make it better
32 WrenchBender : As someone who will try and get home so I may actually vote in this election ( i was disenfranchised by my company who could not be bothered to try a
33 Post contains links and images photopilot : A little election levity......
34 Boeing744 : Ahhhahaha... that made my morning so much better!
35 Revelation : While I do vote, I also sympathize with your point of view and feel you are entitled to have it. I feel a society that would punish people for not vo
36 ScarletHarlot : I wish I could still vote in Canada. I have been very disappointed with the Conservatives' lack of fiscal restraint. After the Liberals got the budget
37 Post contains images ACDC8 : I'm all for the cherish your democracy debate, but seriously, this will be our 5th Federal Election in the last 11 years ... no wonder Canadian's aren
38 czbbflier : You're welcome. Re-reading it myself tonight I notice it's not the easiest to read and it fails to actually answer your question. You know where to t
39 Post contains images Revelation : Almost always without a complete and unbiased review of the costs and the alternatives. When all you have is a hammer (i.e. a large military), every
40 arrow : Just to nitpick -- I don't think it was a battlefield. I suspect it would have been had John decided not to sign the Magna Carta. Regardless, it didn
41 czbbflier : lol- point well taken. But I imagine the boys/men on the field that fateful day in Runnymede were looking at certain death. Whatever possessed John t
42 A332 : The Conservatives are the only legitimate choice and that's saying a lot right there. I'm pretty disappointed with Harper & his crew, but I wouldn
43 Post contains images czbbflier : As I see it, the Vietnam War was one of those 'skirmishes' that you mentioned. It had nothing to do with democracy. It was about containment - and pr
44 curtisman : I'm with you on that. I think we need to get a majority in for a while just so government can operate. This minority thing is just not working. Get i
45 AirCanada787 : There are many political scientists who believe that minority governments are going to get a lot more common in Canada. We have only have eleven so f
46 curtisman : I hear you... unfortunately the latest bout in parliament has not been about working together at all. It is more about posturing a political party to
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