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Mwaa Approves Underground Station At IAD  
User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2928 times:

MWAA yesterday approved a compromise underground station option for the Silver Line when it reaches IAD. Here is a link to the graphic of the chosen option and the above ground option.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...s/2011/04/06/AFrFccrC_graphic.html

This option is $300+ million more than the above ground, and Federal funding has not yet been secured for phase two. Stay tuned for the ongoing saga!

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2916 times:

That's the correct decision.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2854 times:

Good decision with the location.

I'm also glad to see that Dublin is not the only capital city in the world where it seems to take a whole generation or two to get a railway system to its airport...  



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8184 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2846 times:

It would be even better if it had a dedicated connection to the NASM site.


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offline757ops From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

Not only Dublin how about Tokyo Narita! Still using bus connections!

User currently offlinejad0761 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

I am a transport economics student in Dublin and if you actually took the time to follow up on the Dublin Metro you would know it is a waste of resources and money that the government frankly doesnt have (ground hasn't been broken and they have already spent nearly $200 million on the project). The metro going from St. Stephen's Green to the airport is not really a beneficial strategy (car parking will be impossible and people north of the city wont backtrack to use the train). Additionally, the AirCoach is a cheap, comfortable, and efficient way to get to the airport and there is no need for a dedicated train. There has been no proper cost-benefit analysis of the project completed nor have an alternatives been suggested (such as AirCoach). The only reason the government is planning to push ahead with building the metro is to be able to brag about how they now have a rail connection to the airport. It will be interesting to see with the IMF now running the country if the project will be scrapped (it really should be since there is no economic sense in the project).

[Edited 2011-04-07 16:45:14]

User currently offlineWestWing From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2134 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

What a contrast to DCA which is so darn convenient from the Metro.

I don't particularly mind an above-ground station at IAD as long as they have travelators (the moving sidewalk thing) to the main terminal. As they say at NRT "the end of the walk is a-head, please watch your step"

Quoting 757ops (Reply 4):
Not only Dublin how about Tokyo Narita! Still using bus connections!

I think NRT is well connected by rail. Narita Express goes to Marunouchi, Shibuya and even Yokohama and Keisei goes to Ueno. There is also a local Yokosuka(?) line which I took many years ago. Granted the bus is slightly cheaper.



The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago. The second best time is today.
User currently offlinecontrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2581 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Thread starter):
This option is $300+ million more than the above ground, and Federal funding has not yet been secured for phase two. Stay tuned for the ongoing saga!

Stay tuned is right. The way this country's financial situation is I wouldn't count on getting the money anytime soon.

I have a feeling that by the time this project is completed the airplane will be obsolete. Beam me up!!



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently onlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5619 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2560 times:

This is the right decision. For once, sanity prevailed. A rail stop exposed to the elements, requiring down-and-up elevator rides, and 1/4 mile from the entrance to the terminal was not going to work well.

I have a feeling funding will be a bit less of a problem than many of you are anticipating. 2016 may be unrealistic; 2018 seems reasonable to me.


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2403 times:

Quoting capitalflyer (Thread starter):
This option is $300+ million more than the above ground, and Federal funding has not yet been secured for phase two.

While this is the correct decision from a logistics standpoint I recently traveled with my wife and children down to DC for a long weekend (flew into DCA) and was shocked at the state of disrepair of WMATA and Metro. The stations are dark, the trains dirty (even the newer ones) and in the 9 different Metro stations we visited 7 of them didn't have working escalators. I'll be interested to see how the funding shakes out for this given the lack of funding for regular O/M that WMATA clearly has now.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2377 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 8):
2016 may be unrealistic; 2018 seems reasonable to me.

I'm even having doubts about 2018. I've seen barely any progress whatsoever on the new line. The construction zones always look the same. And I drive by them often. All they've managed to do is hamper traffic   


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8184 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Quoting 757ops (Reply 4):
Not only Dublin how about Tokyo Narita! Still using bus connections!

Huh???

Narita Airport is connected with central Tokyo by multiple rail and bus lines

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2027.html



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

If you build it, build it such that people will bother to use it. Otherwise, don't bother. As for the cost - surely they can come up with something. raise taxi fares away from IAD by a dollar or something.

Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
and in the 9 different Metro stations we visited 7 of them didn't have working escalators.

that's a fact of life with metro. some stats were recently published on how long escalators last before they break down again. It was a comically short period of time.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

Quoting jad0761 (Reply 5):
I am a transport economics student in Dublin and if you actually took the time to follow up on the Dublin Metro you would know it is a waste of resources and money that the government frankly doesnt have (ground hasn't been broken and they have already spent nearly $200 million on the project). The metro going from St. Stephen's Green to the airport is not really a beneficial strategy (car parking will be impossible and people north of the city wont backtrack to use the train). Additionally, the AirCoach is a cheap, comfortable, and efficient way to get to the airport and there is no need for a dedicated train. There has been no proper cost-benefit analysis of the project completed nor have an alternatives been suggested (such as AirCoach). The only reason the government is planning to push ahead with building the metro is to be able to brag about how they now have a rail connection to the airport. It will be interesting to see with the IMF now running the country if the project will be scrapped (it really should be since there is no economic sense in the project).


I think it is YOU who really need to look at the Dublin Metro project, because quite frankly, you seem to know nothing about it apart from what you have read in Kevin Myers Articles in the Irish Independent. I suggest you go here www.rpa.ie to get some actual facts.

Metro is not an "airport rail link". Neither is it a "dedicated train". It is an 14 station metro line from Swords to Dublin city centre that happens to serve the airport en-route. It is in an area not served by rail presently (an entire side of Dublin with no Urban rail)

How will car parking be impossible?? Car parking where?? It isnt meant for people coming from Belfast or places on the M1 corridor, they will obviously continue to drive. However, anyone coming from Cork, Limerick, Galway or anyone West or South of Dublin by rail, in addition to anyone actually in the City, will be able to use it through its interchange with Luas or DART Underground from Heuston Rail Station.

The line will intergrate with every other rail, metro and Luas line in Dublin, people wont need to use their cars if they avail of it! It is part of a PROPER RAIL BASED TRANSPORT SYSTEM that this city has been crying out for.

Yes, there has been a proper cost benefit analysis. I suggest you go to the above website to read it. This is another lie some journalists peddle in their anti rail spiel.

Finally, the project is a Public Private Partnership. The private sector build it, the government pay the cost back over 35 years. There is even talk of privatising it completely and offering it to to private sector to operate for 100 years. The government dont actually need to spend anything upfront, and wont need to spend anything at all if it is completely privatised.

By the way, you are aware there has been a change of government in this country, arent you?

The Fianna Fail government planned the line, the new Government will decide if it goes ahead. Fine Gael are not in the habit of blindly supporting anything, or doing things for bragging rights.

The IMF are not "running" this country either. The EU have put the bigger part of the loan in, and the European Investment Bank has already commited a 500 million EUR to the project, giving it its full backing.

Finally - the latest opinion poll (Your City, Your voice - if you do really live here, you might have heard of it) shows that 85% of Dubliners want this line Built and want it done now.

Go back, do your homework. Stop listening to Kevin Myers and Frank McDonald and their uninformed trolling articles in the Irish Independent and Irish Times. When you actually know what Metro North is, then we'll talk.

Actually, to save you the trouble, seeing as you only seem to listen to what you read in the papers without applying any independent thought, here's a little excert from the RPA site:

"Project Overview Metro North
Key Information About Metro North
16.5 km
14 Stops
City Centre to Airport in 20 minutes
City Centre to Swords in 25 minutes
2 Park and Ride Facilities
Interchange with Luas and DART
Runs to Mater, DCU, Ballymun, Airport and Swords
Runs every 2 minutes in peak
Capacity for 20,000 people in each direction per hour
34 million passengers per year
Net benefit to Irish economy over €1 billion

Metro North will connect Swords to Dublin City Centre. The selected route serves a number of key destinations including the airport, hospitals, universities, retail centres as well as residential and employment districts. Planning permission was granted on 27th October 2010. Contracts are ready to sign. Once Government approval to start is obtained works will commence within 3 months.

Metro North will be 16.5 km long and is expected to carry some 34 million passengers a year once opened. Metro North will offer a reliable frequent service bringing passengers from the City Centre to Dublin Airport in less than 20 minutes and Swords in less than 30 minutes and will avail of a range of interchange opportunities with Luas, Irish Rail services, bus services and park and ride facilities.

Metro North is a key element in the creation of a fully integrated rail based public transport network as envisaged in Transport 21. The project is a Public Private Partnership Initiative."

[Edited 2011-04-07 20:30:34]

[Edited 2011-04-07 20:33:59]

[Edited 2011-04-07 20:37:33]


Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently onlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5619 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2210 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
I'm even having doubts about 2018. I've seen barely any progress whatsoever on the new line. The construction zones always look the same. And I drive by them often. All they've managed to do is hamper traffic

The solution is to drive by less often. 

I am only out there maybe once every 2-4 weeks, and when I go, I'm always surprised by the changes. The bulk of the guideways from East Falls Church to Tyson's seem to be built.


User currently offlinecapitalflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2155 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
The stations are dark, the trains dirty (even the newer ones) and in the 9 different Metro stations we visited 7 of them didn't have working escalators. I'll be interested to see how the funding shakes out for this given the lack of funding for regular O/M that WMATA clearly has now.

Metro is in a crisis financially. Especially considering the safety upgrades that need to be made that require money that is shrinking. It seems every other month Congress threatens to cut funding for Metro. Really dumb. You think traffic is bad now, just imagine all the federal workers driving. Add in a terrorist attack, nothing but chaos. Exhibit one, January snow storm that resulted in many 12 hour commutes!

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
The construction zones always look the same. And I drive by them often. All they've managed to do is hamper traffic

I think they have made great progress. The structure of the Wiehle Ave station is up, aerial concrete work on the east side of Tysons is nearly complete, fencing is up along parts, etc. Much of the initial work (which has been mostly completed) was underground with the need to create an entire new storm sewer system with retention ponds, laying electric for the third rail, not to mention the tunnel in Tysons.


User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2104 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
While this is the correct decision from a logistics standpoint I recently traveled with my wife and children down to DC for a long weekend (flew into DCA) and was shocked at the state of disrepair of WMATA and Metro. The stations are dark, the trains dirty (even the newer ones)

I found the system quite good. It was certainly easy to use, but yes, many stations are of a 1970's vintage (at least thats the way it looks!), but were generally clean and quite spacious.

Its a hell of a lot more appealing that New York or Boston's subway / metro systems, thats for sure!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2687 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1835 times:

Congratulations! It is so rare to see sanity prevail these days...

User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1774 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 8):
This is the right decision. For once, sanity prevailed. A rail stop exposed to the elements, requiring down-and-up elevator rides, and 1/4 mile from the entrance to the terminal was not going to work well.

Yeah, total agreement. Can't imagine how anyone wouldn't want something that's sheltered and closer.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 8):
2016 may be unrealistic; 2018 seems reasonable to me.

Puh. Likely maybe. Reasonable, I don't think so. They've been "almost done getting started" with the silver line for ever now. I remember when it was just "around the corner"... ...in 2005 when I moved to DFW.

Quoting catiii (Reply 9):
The stations are dark, the trains dirty (even the newer ones) and in the 9 different Metro stations we visited 7 of them didn't have working escalators. I'll be interested to see how the funding shakes out for this given the lack of funding for regular O/M that WMATA clearly has now.

Do you take the Metros of other cities ever? DC WMATA may indeed have a few towns on this planet with better, nicer stations. But compared to almost everywhere else, DC Metro is pretty much top of the line. Look at their route map and compare it to most other East Coast towns that aren't NYC. Yeah, it has it's problems, and its got its share of overpaid thugs working the system, but for the most part, I'd say it compares pretty favorably. It's one of the few things I miss about the DCA...

Plus unlike most other cities, DC's metro is fast. You won't do 60mph on the NYC Metro...

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 15):
The structure of the Wiehle Ave station is up, aerial concrete work on the east side of Tysons is nearly complete, fencing is up along parts, etc

Good. About 30years overdue, but good just the same. I never understood how the rail managed to stay out of Tysons for so long...

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 16):
It was certainly easy to use, but yes, many stations are of a 1970's vintage (at least thats the way it looks!),

If you're referring to the architecture, yes it kind of is. But even that depends on which station you're at. Metro Center, with it's Brutalist Arching looks (to me anyway) nothing like the London Underground feel that Wheaton or Bethesda have. Just my opinion though...


User currently onlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3569 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

They should have started at both ends but as usual it was probably about money. Does anyone know if they will start using the Silver Line before they get all they way to Dulles?


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1629 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 19):


They should have started at both ends but as usual it was probably about money. Does anyone know if they will start using the Silver Line before they get all they way to Dulles?

If it's like any other Metrorail project ever, then yes they will. One could even say that they already do, as part of the Silver line will be the blue/orange lines


User currently offlineUA933 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1549 times:

The progress that has been made can be seen here:

http://www.dullesmetro.com/pdfs/11MAR_DullesMetroNewsletter.pdf



united - It's time to fly!
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12735 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1455 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 3):
It would be even better if it had a dedicated connection to the NASM site.

Nice, but totally unjustified.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
Do you take the Metros of other cities ever? DC WMATA may indeed have a few towns on this planet with better, nicer stations. But compared to almost everywhere else, DC Metro is pretty much top of the line. Look at their route map and compare it to most other East Coast towns that aren't NYC. Yeah, it has it's problems, and its got its share of overpaid thugs working the system, but for the most part, I'd say it compares pretty favorably. It's one of the few things I miss about the DCA...

Indeed. DC area traffic is some of the most awful I've ever encountered. I can't imagine how bad it'd be if there was no Metro.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1288 times:

THRILLED with this news! It would have been the height of short-term idiocy to not build a station close to the terminal. This is a long-term infrastructure project that will serve the region for decades. I'm glad they made the right decision. In fact, it is downright nice to see a decision being made that is the right move even though it's extremely unpopular with various elements (due to cost).

Op-ed in today's Post by a MWAA Board Member:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...les/2011/04/12/AFQ7jykD_story.html

Especially agree with this part:
We are preparing for a future in which Dulles will be an increasingly important economic engine for our region. We expect the number of non-connecting passengers arriving at Dulles to grow from 18 million annually to 42 million. We project that at least 10 percent of those passengers will use Metro to travel to and from the airport, in addition to the thousands of employees who work at Dulles. That will take a lot of cars off Northern Virginia’s clogged roads. When the station is ready in 2017, it will open with at least 5,000 Metro riders per day, or more than 1.8 million a year.

We have already witnessed the consequences of putting a Metro station in the wrong place. The station at Reagan National Airport was originally built at a distance of more than 1,000 feet from the old main terminal, and relatively few passengers made the long hike, especially in poor weather. When we built the new Reagan National terminal, we located it next to the rail station to remedy the problem. Today, about 17 percent of Reagan National’s passengers use Metro, the highest modal share for rail usage of any airport in the countr


Quoting wn700driver (Reply 18):
They've been "almost done getting started" with the silver line for ever now. I remember when it was just "around the corne

They started construction on it about two years ago. The first phase will open in two more years.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 19):
Does anyone know if they will start using the Silver Line before they get all they way to Dulles?

Yes. It will open in two phases. The Dulles Airport stop is part of the second phase.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26605 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (3 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1272 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 2):

I'm also glad to see that Dublin is not the only capital city in the world where it seems to take a whole generation or two to get a railway system to its airport...

Generation or two? Its been nearly 50 years.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 NoWorries : The interesting twist here is that various interests in Tysons Corner wanted the Metro to pass under rather than over the Tsons area -- MWAA opposed i
26 Pyrex : Make that three generations and you can throw Lisbon into the pot.
27 D L X : FINALLY! This shows that there will be at least one thing done right with the Silver Line. Between putting the Tyson's stations above ground, putting
28 bjorn14 : When I lived there they said DC traffic was the second worst in the US only LA was worse.
29 elmothehobo : It is now tied for the worst traffic in the country. We have it good in DC, by American standards, and it is going to get better with the new streetc
30 D L X : I'll believe it when I see it. Hell, I doubt they'll have all the escalators fixed in ten years.
31 elmothehobo : Escalators? Yeah, huge nuissance. New rails however, DC (and Maryland) are now well on their way to laying new streetcar lines. H Street now has rail
32 asuflyer05 : 30-50 years from now, IAD will be surrounded by dense development and the extra money spent will seem like chump change. Commuting from Alexandria to
33 bjorn14 : I hope they think long term about the names becuase it cost about $100K to change the signage systemwide. I remember back in the late 90's they were
34 D L X : Even dumber that they put the subway line in th The reason there isn't a Georgetown stop is because they decided not to build the I-266 freeway, whic
35 elmothehobo : Georgetown, as D L X stated, was supposed to get a stop in the original plan. Georgetown could also have been accessed via a tunnel similar to that t
36 bjorn14 : I had heard that the residents of G'town did'nt want to give easy access to the 'urban' neighborhoods of DC.. It is such a pain to get off at Foggy B
37 jcs17 : After living in Northern Virginia for a couple of years, expanding Metro is quite the fruitless effort. Non-government employees tend to live and work
38 D L X : That is a commonly repeated falsehood.
39 elmothehobo : Building an underground Georgetown metro station would have been a massive engineering project that WMATA simply could not have undertaken at the tim
40 FlyPNS1 : Not even close. A final route hasn't been chosen and there is no funding for the Purple Line. Which is why many are concerned about spending so much
41 Post contains images D L X : Those people are short sighted. Will people from Cheverly or Addison Road use the subway to get to Dulles? Maybe not. Will people from Tysons?
42 jcs17 : No. Anyone who is traveling on business can get reimbursed for parking, the Dulles Toll Road airport lane is never congested, and after a long flight
43 D L X : You clearly don't live in the area anymore.
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