Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Gadhafi's Son Killed In Nato Airstrike  
User currently offlinejanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2237 times:

Quote:

CNN - Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's youngest son -- Saif al-Arab Gadhafi --was killed after a NATO airstrike, a spokesman for Libya's government said Sunday at a press conference.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/af...dhafi.son.killed/index.html?hpt=T1


He was killed together with three Gadhafi's grandchildren.

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

Of course we have not taken sides in this conflict...


Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3645 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

When do we start on Assad?

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

  

Saif al-Arab along with his older brother Saif al-Islam was probably the most moderate and Westernized of the family having spent much of his life in Germany and having business interest in places like Italy (part owner of Juventus).

I wonder if NATO again is going to claim the Gaddafi's were not intended targets.  


A very dirty game the West is playing in Libya....



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2146 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
Of course we have not taken sides in this conflict...

Obama made it clear he believed Khadaffi should go because he very foolishily felt that Khadaffi would do the same as Mubarak. Well the rest is history.

All I can say is it's a step in the right direction and closer to doing what has to be done.


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3645 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2139 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
All I can say is it's a step in the right direction and closer to doing what has to be done.

Syria's uprising has more documented deaths than Khadaffi did when Obama let France and Britain talk him into this mess. Shouldn't we be bombing Assad also?


User currently offlineairtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2139 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
A very dirty game the West is playing in Libya....

And the shelling and sniping of civilians by the Libyan government is fair? War is a nasty game, and sometimes it needs to be solved one JDAM at a time.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2121 times:

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 6):
And the shelling and sniping of civilians by the Libyan government is fair?


There was a lawless mutiny, which the government rightfully can (and should) go after.
I would expect no less in any other nation if people violently act against the government. What would the US, or any "modern" nation do if you have people running off with military weaponry and targeting the government?


But Libya has oil, and the European are tripping over themselves to get a part of its riches, which sadly makes it a global interest unlike Syria which many fewer frankly care about.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):
All I can say is it's a step in the right direction and closer to doing what has to be done.

How the hell is killing his son and grandchildren a step in the right direction? NATO is committing cold-blooded murder..which is no different that what NATO claimed Gadaffi was doing against his people.



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 5):
Syria's uprising has more documented deaths than Khadaffi did when Obama let France and Britain talk him into this mess. Shouldn't we be bombing Assad also?

No, personally I don't want to get involved at all. If the people really want a change and their leader is evil let them take him out. If they need money fine but what Obama did in Libya was a huge error. Let us just hope Khadaffi's son dying means we have a chance to end this without troops.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
But Libya has oil, and the European are tripping over themselves to get a part of its riches, which sadly makes it a global interest unlike Syria which many fewer frankly care about.

Very true.


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 8):
How the hell is killing his son and grandchildren a step in the right direction? NATO is committing cold-blooded murder..which is no different that what NATO claimed Gadaffi was doing against his people.

The Libyan official who announced Saif al-Arab's death stated that Col. Gadaffi was also at the bombed compound, but had escaped unharmed. If true, this would be the likely explanation for why the compound was targeted, and would make it quite a legitimate target (in my opinion).



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently offlineCometII From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2080 times:

The three grandkids is tragic as they were innocents, but if Gaddafi cared a darn about them he would never have them be anywhere near them since everyone knows he is a marked man. So to blame NATO solely is ridiculous, it is obvious the man cares about no one, neither his people or even his family, much less will he care about the rest of the world at this point and if he could would unleash terror worldwide.

The dye has been cast and killing him is the only way out now.

Also, while I agree that what is going on in Syria is tragic, the fact we cannot act there is not a reason not to act in Libya. Obviously we (the USA, Europe, the west), don't have unlimited wealth and capabilities... but the inability to always act does not mean we should NEVER act. Obama put it well in his speech a few weeks ago,

As an analogy, if there was a horrible disease with two strains and people were dying and a cure was found for one of the strains, would we hold back giving out the cure because we don't have a cure for the other strain, and just let everyone die because we could not cure everyone?


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5050 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

Quoting CometII (Reply 12):
The three grandkids is tragic as they were innocents, but if Gaddafi cared a darn about them he would never have them be anywhere near them since everyone knows he is a marked man. So to blame NATO solely is ridiculous, it is obvious the man cares about no one, neither his people or even his family, much less will he care about the rest of the world at this point and if he could would unleash terror worldwide.

I agree that those kids should not have been anywhere near Gadhafi. However, I am saddened that Gadhafi was not killed in this. He is a skunk, and his running days are numbered. I want him to bleed for what he did to PA 103.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13113 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 13):
agree that those kids should not have been anywhere near Gadhafi. However, I am saddened that Gadhafi was not killed in this. He is a skunk, and his running days are numbered. I want him to bleed for what he did to PA 103.

Uh, Gadhafi supported the terror attack on PA 103 due to the bombing of his compound in April 1986, also killing innocent family members but somehow missing him. Targeting for assination, as is the case here, is not a good idea. It just enhances the risks to our President Obama and other national leaders in Europe and elsewhere by pissing off the intended targets. Look,Gadhafi is not a young man, he will probably die in a few years anyway, it might be better to ignore him, although supporting legitiment oppositoin.

As to Syria, I am concerned that if the Assad family goes, then who takes over? It could lead to an even more anti-Israel and anti-Christian government there, the last think Israel and the USA wants to see.


User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1991 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Saif al-Arab along with his older brother Saif al-Islam was probably the most moderate and Westernized of the family having spent much of his life in Germany and having business interest in places like Italy (part owner of Juventus).

Lets be honest here, no matter how ''westernized'' he was, Saif would still have ruled with an iron fist, and would have used a ruthless security force to silence all opposition. Eliminating the Gadhaf' family altogether is the only logical and fair solution.....



short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):

There was a lawless mutiny, which the government rightfully can (and should) go after.

No undemocratically elected gov't has any right to exist, support, or defend itself, full stop. Some of our so called allies clearly fall under this category, as well, as illegitimacy knows no sides. Any attempt to defend themselves is an unmitigatedly criminal action.

Our modern society hinges on the premise that no government anywhere, has any inherent right to exist; to include "defending" itself once it has gone beyond what is acceptable standard where its own citizens are concerned...

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):

I would expect no less in any other nation if people violently act against the government.

If the government was thoroughly evil and corrupt, rotting from the head back, any attempt to preserve it as is is indeed a prosecutable offense.

Malignant tumors probably think they have a right or reason to exist too. It doesn't mean they can be tolerated. We don't, for a variety of reasons, often have an opportunity to get on board with the well earned death of a dictatorship. In fact we often support totally illegitimate and criminal enterprises like Saudi Arabia, for instance. But when there is a chance to correct something that awful, we should at least be supportive of that effort. After all, if a certain European power hadn't done the same for us 235 years ago, where would we be?


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 1940 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
Saif al-Arab along with his older brother Saif al-Islam was probably the most moderate and Westernized of the family having spent much of his life in Germany and having business interest in places like Italy (part owner of Juventus).

If they were so moderate, then what were they doing in the vicinity of Gaddafi?

Quoting mham001 (Reply 5):

I think you are forgetting that Syria is a proxy state of Iran. Unless you want a full out war in the Middle East, with the other side being backed by Russia and China, then there is nothing that can be done.

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 6):

  

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
There was a lawless mutiny, which the government rightfully can (and should) go after.
Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it.
Abraham Lincoln

The citizens of Libya have the right to fight tyranny and establish a democratic regime.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
or any "modern" nation

Since when was Libya modern?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 8):

Gaddafi is a marked man. His family knew the risks of associating with him, and suffered the consequences.

Quoting CometII (Reply 12):
The three grandkids is tragic as they were innocents, but if Gaddafi cared a darn about them he would never have them be anywhere near them since everyone knows he is a marked man. So to blame NATO solely is ridiculous, it is obvious the man cares about no one, neither his people or even his family, much less will he care about the rest of the world at this point and if he could would unleash terror worldwide.

  



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7189 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 1918 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
A very dirty game the West is playing in Libya....

Yep. NATO can take full responsibility for any and all retribution taken on those who got unnecessarily involved in Libya.

They should have stayed well clear of the situation - "it's better the devil you know". If Gaddafi goes then he'll only be replaced by a new regime just as bad or even worse than Gaddafi...


User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1901 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 18):
If Gaddafi goes then he'll only be replaced by a new regime just as bad or even worse than Gaddafi...

This is indeed a very real concern. Personally, I think the only surefire way to curtail that is through a temporary and benign intervention. The problem is that ever since the US got real damned lucky trying that one out with Germany & Japan (and even then only circumstantially, some would argue...) we seem to think that that will work everywhere. Iraq & Afghanistan seem to think otherwise though... Maybe the rest of the world can get this one right? I don't know.

I do know that we owe to the people fighting this thing to see that they win it. Because if they don't, Mommar will go positively psycho on the survivors...


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

NATO says they bombed a communication HQ tonight. From what they said weeks ago, such thing cant be existing anymore. Anyway, if its true and if Ghaddafis son´s family was there its collateral damage, just a normal event in war.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
A very dirty game the West is playing in Libya....

Well, I tend to agree. And the answer why is of cause known to everyone, a word with three letters. Same why the West doesnt interfere in Zimbabwe or other places which have dictators which are probably even worse than Ghaddafi.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 2):
When do we start on Assad?

If NATO would be "honest" as in Libya, soon. But they have already said its much more difficult and different than Libya, so not possible. Sure, thats true, much less oil.


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3938 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1888 times:

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 10):
The Libyan official who announced Saif al-Arab's death stated that Col. Gadaffi was also at the bombed compound, but had escaped unharmed. If true, this would be the likely explanation for why the compound was targeted, and would make it quite a legitimate target (in my opinion).

From what I understand the Libyan desert is littered with underground bunkers that Gadaffi can hide in. Makes it difficult to take him out.


User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1888 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 18):
If Gaddafi goes then he'll only be replaced by a new regime just as bad or even worse than Gaddafi...

Bingo. I was reading that one of the high ranking rebel commanders actually fought against the US in Afghanistan. So I'm guessing they will be no better than Gaddafi, and the US and its allies have been terrible at regime change..just look at the chaos that is Afghanistan and Iraq, both led by governments that don't have any real powers.



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineronglimeng From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

I'm just wondering about the guy who pickled off the load onto the Gadhafi compound. Knowing that he killed 3 grandchildren might make the job seem less glamourous than it was the day before.

User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2725 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1757 times:

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 8):
How the hell is killing his son and grandchildren a step in the right direction? NATO is committing cold-blooded murder..which is no different that what NATO claimed Gadaffi was doing against his people



Correct..The war for oil is getting uglier by the minute. I thought the no fly zone was put in to stop atrocities.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
Let us just hope Khadaffi's son dying means we have a chance to end this without troops.



I am sure the grand kids appreciate that.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
But Libya has oil, and the European are tripping over themselves to get a part of its riches, which sadly makes it a global interest unlike Syria which many fewer frankly care about.



Bingo

Quoting CometII (Reply 12):
The three grandkids is tragic as they were innocents, but if Gaddafi cared a darn about them he would never have them be anywhere near them since everyone knows he is a marked man. So to blame NATO solely is ridiculous



Sorry but NATO is solely to blame. This supposed no fly zone to end killing has prolonged the killing. And NATO picking sides makes it all the more disingenuous.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7189 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1749 times:

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 22):
Bingo. I was reading that one of the high ranking rebel commanders actually fought against the US in Afghanistan. So I'm guessing they will be no better than Gaddafi, and the US and its allies have been terrible at regime change..just look at the chaos that is Afghanistan and Iraq, both led by governments that don't have any real powers.

The irony is the guy they killed was one guy who if he had inherited the country may have opened it up to the west once Gaddafi died of old age.

nosy bastards couldn't stop interfering. If they hadn't interfered it would have stayed a domestic civil war a la USA circa 1861 instead of becoming an international war. Crazy Senile Gaddafi was no longer a threat to the outside world, but they have now made him a threat again. He's crazy, and probably now grief stricken, that's not a good combination and makes him both dangerous and unpredictable. When in that state he could blow up aircraft or set a biological dirty bomb off in London/Paris as retaliation. NATO governments have knowingly put their citizens at risk in order to gain control over a few more barrels of oil. That's negligent at best.

They've obviously never read the story of Pandora's box.


25 NIKV69 : Cry me a river, Khadaffi made his plays. Like killing everyone on PA103. I could care less who is involved in the collateral damage. What were they d
26 Post contains images Acheron : I find it amusing how some people are naive(too bad using a more apropiate term would get my message deleted) enough to think that somehow democracy
27 DeltaMD90 : What many don't realize is that his family probably wasn't there willingly. He's a dictator, I'm pretty sure if he wanted them there, they were. Can't
28 Quokka : If you had read the reports on the attack you would know that they were not in Gaddafi's residence but that of his son in a residential area. If they
29 einsteinboricua : I think NATO is overstepping its boundaries here. The original intent was to enforce a no-fly zone and protect civilians. I don't see how bombing Ghad
30 NIKV69 : Good point. Problem was there are rebels involved that want to kill Khadaffi and they are now being viewed as innocent bystanders and not enemies of
31 TheCol : I'm not totally oblivious to the fact that this may come around and bite us in the ass later. That being said, it would be foolish to assume that the
32 Acheron : Doesn't matter what the majority thinks. The ones who succeed are usually those with money, the guns and more backing than any of the other confronti
33 KiwiRob : If think you're kidding yourself if you think a democratic regime will take over.
34 AR385 : Don´t be so sure about that. The animal that rules Syria is a doctor, so at some point he must have had to have sworn the Hippocratic odd. He also l
35 TheCommodore : He was more or less accepted back into the "pack" by the west, including your own leader. He has even been invited to address the UN. God knows why.
36 TheCol : That's why arming and funding the entire opposition totally defeats the purpose of NATO's presence there. That's where the mistake was made. As for G
37 MadameConcorde : What if some foreign power came to bomb the White House, the Elysée Palace or 10 Downing Street and killed some of our own leaders family members? K
38 NIKV69 : This was just the means to an end. People like Khadaffi are fine till the people finally say enough is enough. I got to give him some credit for stay
39 AR385 : Boy, I´m going to call that statement "navieté" otherwise I´ll be banned probably. Let´s me give you a reminder 1. Gaddafi was a major financier
40 Asturias : Yeah, it seems NATO isn't operating on all cylinders, so to speak. NATO has, no doubt, overstepped its boundaries. It may be time to dismantle NATO.
41 ronglimeng : I take your point, but we generally don't consider airmen to be be assassins. Their killing is anonymous, not like a Mafia "clip". But targetted kill
42 cws818 : Well, not lately. But he has in the past.
43 Post contains images Baroque : Slightly off topic but not really, I worked with a couple of Iranian women in the US in 1977 and they were desperate to get rid of the Shah. When it
44 wn700driver : I think we all get it. But "there might be something worse around the corner" is hardly an excuse to allow a brutal criminal enterprise to just conti
45 aerorobnz : I don't think that they are stupid. They live in their own country, They are adults let them sort themselves out like everyone else has to. It's part
46 Post contains images Acheron : Then it probably ranks up there in the BS meter with those who think that people who have lived under one form of opressive regime or another for hun
47 Baroque : I may well be wrong (it has happened!!!) but there is a difference with 1970s Iran and 2011 Libya. It must have seemed that the Shah's government cou
48 MillwallSean : Its sad that people has to die in wars. But Ghaddafis son is hardly a civilian out minding his own business... Personally I reckon that now when the w
49 wn700driver : Indeed there's no guarantee that this will end well. But I just don't buy into this near certainty that they'll end up like Iran... And if you're say
50 Post contains images Baroque : Even more leaving the Shia in Basra to their fate. Well past the point of no return re Gaddafi. That has to come out in favour of the rebels, the mor
51 MD11Engineer : After he came to power, Qadaffi demanded from the German government the right to send death squads into Germany to chase down and kill opponents. Obv
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
4 Norwegian Soldiers Killed In Afghanistan posted Tue Jun 29 2010 15:51:38 by Mortyman
Jetblue Ground Worker Killed In BOS posted Mon Mar 1 2010 10:24:42 by NWADC10LUVER
Brian Burke's Son Dies In Car Accident posted Fri Feb 5 2010 20:19:34 by JCS17
8 CIA Agents Killed In Afghanistan Suicide Blast posted Wed Dec 30 2009 22:03:54 by FuturePilot16
4 WA Officers Killed In Apparent Ambush posted Sun Nov 29 2009 10:32:25 by Itsjustme
FBI K-9 Killed In The Line Of Duty posted Fri Oct 30 2009 09:08:04 by September11
Woman Who Missed AF447 Killed In Car Crash posted Thu Jun 11 2009 16:49:57 by Springbok747
3 Oakland Police Officers Killed, 1 In Grave posted Sun Mar 22 2009 09:09:02 by F9Animal
Dozens Killed In Night Club Fire posted Wed Dec 31 2008 19:11:11 by KaiGywer
Nigeria : 380 Killed In Election Violence.. posted Sat Nov 29 2008 07:50:59 by Beaucaire