Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Canadian Election Thread  
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2061 times:

Tomorrow (Mon Feb 2) we have a federal election in Canada (yes, I know: another one    ) .

Currently, the Conservatives have a minority government, with 143 of 308 seats in the House of Commons. The Liberals are the Official Opposition with, I believe, 77 seats, the Bloc-Quebecois 47 seats, and the New Democratic Party (NDP) has 365 seats. There are 2 independents and 3 vacancies. The Prime Minister is Stephen Harper, an economist by education.

For the general benefit of those not really familiar with the Canadian political landscape, the Conservatives (Tories) are a fairly strong right of centre party, the Liberals will support anything that gets and keeps them in power (historically they have campaigned from the left and governed from the right), the NDP are a (fairly) soft socialist party, and the BQ (or Bloc-heads, as they are sometimes called) are a Quebec -only party that originally was intended to advocate for Quebec at the federal level. But now they've been around for a generation. Some are separatists, some are not.

At the start of the campaign, Harper flat out demanded a majority to ensure what he described as stable government and economic growth. Attack ads against the Liberal leader, Michael Ignatieff, were deployed in the squadrons. And are still being used. The Liberals for the most part did not respond in kind - possibly because they don't have the money the Tories do. The NDP campaigned as they usually do, trying to advance the common man argument. Outside of Quebec, the BQ generally get ignored, inside Quebec it was a 'same old, same old' type campaign at the start. 'Vote for us and we'll stand up for Quebec in Ottawa' sort of thing.

Ignatieff has been suspected of being a weak leader, and he has not really come across well during the campaign. Harper, whatever one might think of him, is a leader, although a bloodless one. Jack Layton, leader of the NDP, came across as a guy with a lot of guts, campaigning while dealing with prostate cancer and recovering from a broken hip.

By harping (no pun intended) on the majority issue, Harper seems to have been trying to shake out some right of centre Liberals and get them into the Tory fold, and has also been micro-targeting selected ethnic groups in specific ridings, appealing to religious/social conservative trends here and there in order to weld together his coveted majority - because since this is his 4th election campaign, if he doesn't get a majority this time he'll likely get pushed out as PM.

However, a funny thing happened on the way to the election: most of those shook up Liberals seem to have gone to the NDP. As well, the NDP seems, from the polls, to have surpassed the BQ in the BQ's own territory. Layton has campaigned very well despite his condition, has assumed the happy underdog role which is playing well across the country, and now nationally the NDP is about 5 points behind the Tories, and light-years ahead of the Liberals, whose support seems to have collapsed. NDP support seems to be still rising, and Liberal support falling.

Most pollsters are now indicating that the long-sought majority is out of reach for the Tories, and this may be true. Since Canada uses a first past the post electoral system, vote-splitting between the Liberals and NDP might actually help a Tory majority happen, but that doesn't seem to be what the tall foreheads think. I believe the more-or-less consensus is that there will another Conservative minority, and likely for the first time ever, an NDP opposition, with the Liberals possibly reduced to a rump group. The BQ look also to be seriously reduced in Quebec, although their 'get out the vote' organisation is pretty strong.

Anyhoo, not being too shy to offer an opinion, I'll venture along the lines of:

Conservative: 135
NDP: 75
Liberal: 50
BQ: 46
Independent: 2

There is an Independent-BQ guy in Quebec who seems to have a good record for his riding, and I am predicting that Helena Guerges, whom Harper kicked out of cabinet and caucus for unspecified reasons (and was exonerated by the RCMP), will win her riding in Ontario over the candidate Harper promoted.

This of course could be wildly wrong. If the NDP can get their Quebec supporters out to actually vote, they could wind up with a lot more seats, and the BQ a lot less. As mentioned, vote-splitting could give the Tories a majority (they need 155). If the above is anywhere near accurate, Harper is PM again with a minority, Layton is leader of the opposition. The knock-on effect could be: Ignatieff out very quickly as Liberal leader, and the Liberals prepare to spend a lot of time in the wilderness trying to figure out what they're about; Duceppe (leader of the BQ) steps down, he's been around for a long time and perhaps they need a change, or perhaps Quebec is changing for them; Layton is ill, I think it likely he goes, or makes an announcement, before the end of the calendar year; and Harper quits. Anything short of a majority, after that's all he's campaigned on, would be seen as an "anyone but you, Steve" vote.

Who would follow any of these leaders is guesswork, I think.

But the floor is open ! Get your opinion in before voting tomorrow. Non-Canucks, raise your elbows and join the fray.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20334 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2047 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter):
Tomorrow (Mon Feb 2) we have a federal election in Canada (yes, I know: another one ) .

Canada has elections?   

  


User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1844 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2044 times:

There was already a thread going, but I think a new one is justified because of the immense changes in the campaign. Thanks for posting.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter):
Ignatieff has been suspected of being a weak leader, and he has not really come across well during the campaign. Harper, whatever one might think of him, is a leader, although a bloodless one. Jack Layton, leader of the NDP, came across as a guy with a lot of guts, campaigning while dealing with prostate cancer and recovering from a broken hip.


I would respectfully disagree about Ignatieff. I think he has run an alright campaign. The reason it is going so poorly is the very very successful character assassination of Ignatieff by the Conservatives.

How they turned being a professor at Harvard into a political liability is impressive, if not upsetting.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter):
There is an Independent-BQ guy in Quebec who seems to have a good record for his riding


He is an independent, but normally votes with the Conservatives.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter):
Helena Guerges, whom Harper kicked out of cabinet and caucus for unspecified reasons (and was exonerated by the RCMP), will win her riding in Ontario over the candidate Harper promoted.


We'll see tomorrow but I doubt it. I think her and the Conservative candidate will split the rightist vote and the NDP or Liberals will take that seat.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter):

Conservative: 135
NDP: 75
Liberal: 50
BQ: 46
Independent: 2

Interesting... I think you're right with the general proportions, but I think the Bloc will do much poorer, and most of their seats will go between the NDP and Liberals. One seat projection poll had the Bloc dropping to only 3 (!) seats.

Just to disclose my own stripes, I voted Liberal at the advance polls. To be sure though, the Conservatives would be my second choice over the NDP or anyone else.

[Edited 2011-05-01 11:54:42]

User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2034 times:

IMHO, which is getting more common by the day, I doubt another Conservative minority would last 3 months before loosing confidence in the House. The NDP and Liberals have made it public, and played right into Harper's campaign strategy, that they will strongly entertain the idea of forming a coalition government. Since the Liberals are totally disorganized and still infighting over their platform, the classic Trudeau and Chretien Liberals will probably use a NDP coalition to keep their party steering well to the left, instead of center-right.


No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1844 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter):
The knock-on effect could be: Ignatieff out very quickly as Liberal leader, and the Liberals prepare to spend a lot of time in the wilderness trying to figure out what they're about; Duceppe (leader of the BQ) steps down, he's been around for a long time and perhaps they need a change, or perhaps Quebec is changing for them; Layton is ill, I think it likely he goes, or makes an announcement, before the end of the calendar year; and Harper quits. Anything short of a majority, after that's all he's campaigned on, would be seen as an "anyone but you, Steve" vote.

I think you're very right about this. If the NDP makes the enormous gains expected, though, I could see Layton staying on if his health permits. Otherwise, here are some humble preliminary predictions for future leaders, in no order:

Conservatives:
- Jim Prentice. He left, but I could see him returning in a year or so. He would win my vote for the Conservatives.
- John Baird. Very effective and popular. Perhaps too abrasive though?
- Peter McKay.
- Jason Kenney. I certainly hope not.

Liberals:
- Mark Holland.
- Martha Hall-Findlay. Everyone seems to like her, even Conservatives.
- Dominic LeBlanc. Very bilingual and an effective speaker I think.
- Bob Rae. I am sure a very nice guy, but his political past would be absolute suicide for the Liberals.

NDP:
- Gary Doer. Former MB Premier, current Ambassador to the USA. Wildly popular and successful.
- Thomas Mulcair.
- Pat Martin. Prolific, but strange...

Bloc and Greens:
???


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2007 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 2):
The reason it is going so poorly is the very very successful character assassination of Ignatieff by the Conservatives.

   No doubt that was effective. Also shows that iggy has a little more class (a lot more class) than Harper since the amount of character assassination by the Libs was at a minimum.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 2):
Just to disclose my own stripes, I voted Liberal at the advance polls.

I will vote Liberal tomorrow and I have a sign on my lawn.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 4):
- Jim Prentice. He left, but I could see him returning in a year or so. He would win my vote for the Conservatives.
- John Baird. Very effective and popular. Perhaps too abrasive though?
- Peter McKay.
- Jason Kenney. I certainly hope not.

Prentice - liked him overall, probably too 'red' for the Christian/uber-right.
Baird - Popular where ? With other pitbulls, perhaps. A very nasty person, IMHO (who likely would run for leader)
McKay - same grouping as Prentice, but he'd likely try anyway.
Kenney - likeliest successor, he's been pulling in IOU's all over the place.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 4):
- Mark Holland.
- Martha Hall-Findlay. Everyone seems to like her, even Conservatives.
- Dominic LeBlanc. Very bilingual and an effective speaker I think.
- Bob Rae. I am sure a very nice guy, but his political past would be absolute suicide for the Liberals.

Holland - don't know much there
Hall-Findlay - everyone likes her, yes; but does she have the cojones ?
Leblance - capable guy, I'd say a short-term leader anyway, until Justin Trudeau grows up
Rae - not a chance in hell, also probably too old

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 4):
- Gary Doer. Former MB Premier, current Ambassador to the USA. Wildly popular and successful.
- Thomas Mulcair.
- Pat Martin. Prolific, but strange...

As a Manitoban, very proud of Gary. Have met several times, he's a really decent and smart person. He's also 62 and doesn't want to get into the rough and tumble again (unless he's PM from the start, I suppose).
Mulcair - I think he's too much a non-leader to be a leader; but a very bright guy
Martin - yup, he's a little wacky

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 4):
???

BQ & Greens - really, who cares ? E May has screwed up the Green Party for so long she should just leave, although she might just beat little Gary Lunn tomorrow. She would have run in that riding in the 1st place if she had any real political smarts.

Should make for some interesting TV tomorrow night. Better than the playoffs.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1844 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1992 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 5):
Baird - Popular where ? With other pitbulls, perhaps. A very nasty person, IMHO (who likely would run for leader)

Well, he really has become "Minister of Everything." At his age that says a lot. Also, I have heard from a couple insiders that outside the House he's generally a nice guy, and easy to get along with. He seemed like that when I met him briefly at the Rideau St. McDonalds haha...


User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1844 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1990 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 5):
E May has screwed up the Green Party for so long she should just leave, although she might just beat little Gary Lunn tomorrow. She would have run in that riding in the 1st place if she had any real political smarts.

Unfortunately, I am fairly confident she will lose in Saanich-Gulf Islands. That is my former riding, and my parents and siblings still live there. Yes, there is a strong Green base, but she would have to woo a lot of NDP and Liberal voters to have any chance. Lunn isn't exactly popular, but the Conservatives also have a committed, mostly elderly voting base. Complicating the situation is that Victoria in general is a very insular community - everything I've heard from possible May voters is that they're uncomfortable with her not being from the region. She is seen as a carpetbagger in the truest sense of the term.

Personally, I would vote for May if I lived there, but mostly because I really like her personally (and not everyone does). I have also heard that the Conservative internal polling is not even worried about that race. Their national phone banks aren't calling it. Rather, they are more worried about the two-way Conservative-NDP race in the neighbouring Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca riding.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (3 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 1978 times:

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 2):
The reason it is going so poorly is the very very successful character assassination of Ignatieff by the Conservatives.

That's because he played right into it. Harper's attack ads would have looked totally ridiculous at this point if Ignatieff has his act together pre-election and kept his big mouth shut about a coalition government. The fact of the matter is that he has no charisma, is a weak leader, and has barely gained the confidence of his own party. The NDP didn't make it this far because of a bunch of lousy Conservative attack ads.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlinephotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2821 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1960 times:

Ok, here's a scenario just to keep the NeoCons sleepless at night.

1) Harper wins another minority gov't. That's a given.

2) The NDP form the official opposition with the Liberals in third place. Combined, NDP/Liberal = a small majority.

3) Ignatieff doesn't win his own seat and immediately steps down as Liberal Leader.

4) Harper presents his budget (same one as last time) and is defeated on a Confidence motion.

5) NDP is asked by the Govenor General to form a Gov't if he feels he can get the support of the House.

6) Jack Layton becomes Prime Minister of Canada.

and..... are you ready for it......

7) The Liberals, with Ignatieff having stepped down appoint Bob Rae as interim Leader of the Liberal Party.


So.... Now we have a NDP Prime Minster with a former NDP Premier as Liberal Leader backing him up.

Our country turns HARD LEFT and away we go.... to what we know not!!!  


User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1956 times:

Quoting photopilot (Reply 9):
Our country turns HARD LEFT and away we go.... to what we know not!!!

To a sputtering economy, extended deficits, and turmoil in the markets.

Layton promised all kinds of stuff he knows he can't deliver because there's no money for it. In some respects, I almost hope Layton wins a majority government so I can watch the dance he has to do. It will be Bob Rae writ large.

Ignatieff is done. I can see a Liberal-NDP merger of some sort. It took the right about 10 years to realize it would never hold power if it remained split between Reform/Alliance and PCs. The left/centre will do the same thing.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3410 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1947 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 5):
  No doubt that was effective. Also shows that iggy has a little more class (a lot more class) than Harper since the amount of character assassination by the Libs was at a minimum.

If we learn anything from south of the border, its that if you stay silent when being swift-boated (which this is) then it works against you at the polls. Example being John Kerry in 2004.

Quoting photopilot (Reply 9):
Harper wins another minority gov't. That's a given.

If he does and its most likely (I'm in Australia and am sitting this one out) will they turf him as leader because I think after five years its pretty clear that Ontario doesn't trust Harper or any Alberta conservative for that matter to run the show with a majority. They need an Ontario conservative to run the party to get support there.

People out west can flame me for this but Ontario has 1/3 of the population of Canada, and this is Harper's 4th attempt at it.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineczbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 980 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1913 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 11):
People out west can flame me for this but Ontario has 1/3 of the population of Canada, and this is Harper's 4th attempt at it.

I flame you with a BIC lighter.







But then I'll put the fire out with a beer.






Nicely put.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1911 times:

Quoting photopilot (Reply 9):
Ok, here's a scenario just to keep the NeoCons sleepless at night.

You really want to stir up the conspiracy theorists, don't you ?  
Quoting Arrow (Reply 10):
Ignatieff is done.

Absolutely. Back to academe for him.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 11):
If he does and its most likely (I'm in Australia and am sitting this one out) will they turf him as leader because I think after five years its pretty clear that Ontario doesn't trust Harper or any Alberta conservative for that matter to run the show with a majority. They need an Ontario conservative to run the party to get support there.

People out west can flame me for this but Ontario has 1/3 of the population of Canada, and this is Harper's 4th attempt at it.

I'm from the West and I won't flame you. A pollster I saw on The National recently said Harper has a very energized base of about 30% or so who absolutely love him, no matter what he does. And he also has a very energized group of about 40% who absolutely loathe him, no matter what he does. So there is very little room for him to row poll-wise. If it's not today, he never gets that majority. And since he has defined this election as basically "a majority or bust", I'm going to call it bust. The party will turn on him and he will leave rather than be fired.

Ever look at the back of a $50 bill ? That's a Tory retirement party.

Ontario has closer to 40% of the population, actually.

Hmm...Prime Minister Layton...



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2659 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1896 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 13):
A pollster I saw on The National recently said Harper has a very energized base of about 30% or so who absolutely love him, no matter what he does.



I'd say the situation is slightly different. 30% of the population understands that leftists won't bring us anything good. It has nothing to do with Harper as a leader. Au contraire, many of us think Harper should step down...

I'll vote conservative tonight. Mrs. Wildcat and the the oldest Wildkitten will most likely follow.
To bad we won't vote for someone, but rather against...


User currently offlinepowerslide From Canada, joined Oct 2010, 571 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

Quoting Arrow (Reply 10):
In some respects, I almost hope Layton wins a majority government so I can watch the dance he has to do.

We NEED the NDP to get elected, so we can go through a nationwide calamity like we did in Ontario and BC when the NDP was in charge. It is guaranteed that the NDP would cease to be a national party after taxpayers see the havoc and discord that party would sow, while they bankrupt the country both fiscally and morally. Whoever thinks the NDP are social democratic are out to lunch, they are communist.  


User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 14):
I'd say the situation is slightly different. 30% of the population understands that leftists won't bring us anything good.

Yeah, because healthcare and balanced budgets aren't good things. At least 70% of the population understands that Tory times are tough times.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2659 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1868 times:

Quoting MattRB (Reply 16):
Yeah, because healthcare and balanced budgets aren't good things.



So you say the tories don't care about health care and balanced budget? Yeah, sure...
I'd really like to know how the lefties want to pay for everything they promised. Well, since they don't talk about it, most likely the easiest way: by raising tax the rates. Do you really want to pay Europe-like taxes?


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

Quoting MattRB (Reply 16):
Yeah, because healthcare and balanced budgets aren't good things.

Don't kid yourself. Management of our health care system is on the provincial level. Our MSP payments don't go to the feds.

Quoting MattRB (Reply 16):
At least 70% of the population understands that Tory times are tough times.

Oh, really? Last time I checked, the economy was doing fairly well. Of course that wouldn't be the case if Jack Layton has his way with the oil sands.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 17):
I'd really like to know how the lefties want to pay for everything they promised. Well, since they don't talk about it, most likely the easiest way: by raising tax the rates. Do you really want to pay Europe-like taxes?

You might want to bear in mind that in Manitoba the NDP have won 3 straight majorities, have more or less kept the books balanced, and have lowered tax rates. Oh, and Manitoba has the 2nd lowest unemployment rate in the country at 5.5%. The 'lefties' are not necessarily spending like drunken sailors, or giving it away to their corporate pals.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineMattRB From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 17):
So you say the tories don't care about health care and balanced budget?

We're how much in the hole thanks to Harper? After how many years of balanced budgets and surpluses?

Harper wants healthcare in this country dead:

"In 1995, Harper said 'the federal government should contemplate' a proposal advanced by Quebec's finance minister wherein the federal government would transfer tax points, instead of money, to the provinces for social programs. With no cash transfers, Ottawa would lose its only hammer to enforce the Canada Health Act."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/can...afxJe88b5kBmKi46FzNQ?docId=6663567

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 17):
I'd really like to know how the lefties want to pay for everything they promised. Well, since they don't talk about it, most likely the easiest way: by raising tax the rates. Do you really want to pay Europe-like taxes?

They've done more to explain how they'll pay for things than Harper has.

How do you think Harper will pay down the deficit? If you think he's not going to raise taxes on households (remember, he wants to cut corporate taxes - who do you think will make up the difference?), you've got your head buried firmly in the sand. If he's not going to raise taxes, what is he going to cut? He won't say either way when asked, so why is he hiding the answer from Canadians?

He promised more open government & has failed to deliver. He raised taxes during the roughest recession since The Great Depression. He can't get the numbers right on anything he presents (deficit, F-35 cost) & his Finance Minister thinks Canada (corporate taxation-wise) looking like Ireland is a good thing (have you seen the trouble Ireland is in these days?). He was wrong on the GST cut (panned by the majority of economists in the country). He is wrong on the long form census.

He's taking this country down a road to ruin and thinks he deserves a majority government? I think not.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlinepowerslide From Canada, joined Oct 2010, 571 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

Quoting MattRB (Reply 20):
If he's not going to raise taxes, what is he going to cut?

The useless social programs, hopefully.


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2659 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1798 times:

Quoting MattRB (Reply 20):
Harper wants healthcare in this country dead:

TheCol already told you that, so I just quote him:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 18):
Management of our health care system is on the provincial level.
Quoting MattRB (Reply 20):
Harper wants healthcare in this country dead:

"In 1995,

So you base your opinion on a 16 years old quote?

Quoting MattRB (Reply 20):
If you think he's not going to raise taxes on households (remember, he wants to cut corporate taxes - who do you think will make up the difference?), you've got your head buried firmly in the sand

Let's put it this way: I won't be surprised if a conservative federal government would increase personal income tax rates. OTOH I'd be surprised if a hypothetical Lieberal or NDP government wouldn't do the same. Especially after businesses start leaving Canada after the corporate tax hike.

Quoting MattRB (Reply 20):
Finance Minister thinks Canada (corporate taxation-wise) looking like Ireland is a good thing (have you seen the trouble Ireland is in these days?)

So you say that Ireland's problems are caused solely by low corporate tax rates? That's really interesting...

Quoting MattRB (Reply 20):
He raised taxes during the roughest recession since The Great Depression.

It looks like I missed something, which federal tax (other than EI/CPP contribution) was increased by the Harper government?


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 22):
Let's put it this way: I won't be surprised if a conservative federal government would increase personal income tax rates. OTOH I'd be surprised if a hypothetical Lieberal or NDP government wouldn't do the same. Especially after businesses start leaving Canada after the corporate tax hike.

He won't raise personal income taxes, but he may eliminate some deductions - which amounts to the same thing. If Harper was really intellectually honest, he'd raise the HST back to where it would have been had he not foolishly reduced the GST from 7% to 5%. As an economist (allegedly) he should know that reducing personal income over a consumption tax is much preferable:
- you get the disadvantaged off the tax rolls entirely, which helps their situaiton, and
- the more advantaged people in our country (me, for example) spend more, therefore pay more in consumption tax. It's a flat tax as well. That should appeal to those from Red Neck, oh, sorry, Red Deer.

But going back on the consumption tax reduction would for Harper be an admission that he made a mistake, and he's far too arrogant to do that.

But as I indicated in an earlier post, I think we should be prepared for some surprises tonight.

Sweet dreams everyone !   



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineskysurfer From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 1137 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (3 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1768 times:

Good luck to everyone and the parties you all voted for. I can't vote yet so i've just been following it from the stands and this election finally promises to be an interesting one. It's on tv right now and i'm sitting down with my feet up, a beer in my hands and actually some excitement and nail biting going on!

Cheers

Stu



In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
25 Post contains links NIKV69 : Yep http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...ction-ctv-television-projects.html There goes the neighborhood..[Edited 2011-05-02 20:22:54]
26 Post contains images YYZflyer : Harper got a majority government....crap.
27 Boeing744 : Wow, this is unbelievable. I think everyone is astonished at the results... Especially the NDP strength and Liberal and Bloc annihilation. Perhaps the
28 Post contains images LAXintl : Congrats neighbors. Now with a first time majority, Harper can hopefully lead the manner he has always wished. Like him or hate him, now he has the ba
29 JoeCanuck : Well...this is good news. The Liberal collapse was greater than I thought but not surprising. Iggy was an incredibly short sighted and inept leader...
30 czbbflier : This is going to be an historic night. Everybody says so but... "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose". In the short term: Conservative Majority
31 ronglimeng : This is the second federal election that I have followed from outside the Dominion. The first was the 1979 election which was also a liberal Party set
32 connies4ever : A tectonic shft, indeed. Not really what I was expecting, although after seeing the initial Atlantic results I had this sinking feeling the Tories wo
33 Post contains images StarAC17 : Even with a majority and the right to do whatever we wants. If Harper gets too cocky and becomes tougher on victim less crimes (we like our pot ) and
34 powerslide : A lot of sour grapes in this thread. Too bad we have to listen to this tripe for eight more years.
35 Osiris30 : Agree with the first sentiment, not the second. I've seen people whine about how 60% didn't vote Tory but there's a Tory majority... well if you excl
36 skysurfer : I won't go into anything too much and will keep this pretty short as the thread shouldn't dissolve into rants and raves. I'm glad the Conservatives wo
37 connies4ever : It's an initial reaction. All this will pass. Get a grip ! The election is the expression of the people, and, given the system we have, it is what it
38 Post contains images czbbflier : Just a little editorial in what I think was fair and balanced reporting of what is going on. A couple of points I might add now that I have had some
39 A332 : I'm just glad the Conservatives finally got their majority government. Here's to 4 years of stability! THE WEST IS IN! Poor Quebec. You changed your s
40 YVRLTN : Im in the same boat, though not following it as closely as some. My 2 cents as an onlooker: From where I came from in the UK, things have gone down t
41 BO__einG : My take on the election, about time the blue sweeps into the House of Commons in Ottawa. I am pretty happy that a conservative majority has now taken
42 ScarletHarlot : I'm amazed and dismayed that Harper got a majority. But the thing that frightens me is that now we have a (for Canada) far-right party in power and a
43 Osiris30 : Obviously you're a center voter. Rest assured most Canadians are. However, the Liberals drove people left or right in this election by their choice o
44 Arrow : Relax. Keep in mind that the terms "far left" and "far right" in Canada do not reflect how the Americans view politics. To the Americans, Harper woul
45 Ralphski : Harper governed as if he had a majority from day one, with every action being an "I dare you" confidence vote. Now that he has a majority, it's full
46 jcs17 : Huzzah! Conservatives win a majority, finally. Do I expect Harper to repeal gay marriage or any social program? Absolutely not. The Conservatives don'
47 Boeing744 : Would Harper want to do this? Definitely not... The only thing that is a bit worrying is one of his MPs could introduce a private member's bill about
48 Post contains images StarAC17 : Or even in a country like Australia, although I'm just learning politics down here and the two parties seem centre-left and centre-right, I don't rea
49 connies4ever : Well, Baird would support it, wouldn't he ? If Harper had kept the GST at 7% we would not have the huge deficit we now have, only a moderate one. Kee
50 Post contains images TheCol : No MP wants to be kicked out of caucus, which is a given if anyone tries to table a bill like that. There is zero chance of that happening. And, give
51 Post contains images AF340 : As for me, I must say that this election couldn't have gone better! Conservative majority, local Conservative candidate got in after much hard work,
52 NIKV69 : You will always have that. It's why the middle decides elections and they are neither far right or left.
53 connies4ever : Yes, by all means get rid of the long-gun registry that police chiefs across the country support (I mean, we register our cars and boats already). An
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
The Official Canadian Election Thread posted Tue May 25 2004 18:50:34 by Qb001
Canadian Election Thread posted Sun May 1 2011 10:13:07 by connies4ever
Israeli Election Thread.. posted Sun Feb 8 2009 10:11:32 by Beaucaire
Australian Election Thread posted Sun Oct 14 2007 00:43:17 by Bill142
The Official French Presidential Election Thread posted Thu May 3 2007 09:35:42 by UTA_flyinghigh
Scottish Election Thread posted Wed May 2 2007 23:10:39 by Gkirk
Official Bahamas Election Thread posted Tue Apr 10 2007 17:24:43 by TransIsland
NSW Election Thread posted Fri Feb 16 2007 09:34:33 by QFA380
Official Venezuelan Presidential Election Thread posted Sun Dec 3 2006 04:36:35 by Luisde8cd
Official '06 U.S. Midterm Election Thread posted Mon Nov 6 2006 21:10:03 by Falcon84