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Texas Passes "you Lose You Pay" Tort Reform.  
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

The Texas legislature (both houses) has passed and the Governor has signed into law, Texas's latest law to help small businesses fight frivolous lawsuits which cost small businesses extra money in insurance costs and deprive people looking for work of jobs. Hopefully this will in some small way help to turn the tide of the attitude of sloth and victimization that is currently running rabid in our nation as a whole and begin to once again foster an attitude of personal responsibility.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner...mall-business-wins-stephen-demaura

Why are these types of reforms so important?

The cost of tort litigation is strangling the U.S. and small businesses in particular. According to Marie Gryphon of the Manhattan Institute, the cost of tort litigation topped $247 billion in 2006. The National Federation of Independent Business estimates that tort litigation costs small businesses over $105 billion annually, $35 billion of which comes out of their pockets, not insurance.



Think about how many jobs that money could produce. And that is not government hand out money that the government doesn't have to begin with.

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8827 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2324 times:

Great news. We can count on the ABA and associated groups (including possibly the Democratic Party) to ride this platform in the next election.

This will hopefully stop in its tracks the practice of lawyers chasing contingency fee cases, where you may file 50 cases as stupid as the "coffee too hot" case, in the hopes that one of the cases succeeds and pays off millions. Here, only cases that have a firm foundation in law will make it to court, or better yet, even the threat of court.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8220 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

It will not take that much time to determine if this is a law that will "clean up abuse of the courts" or a law of intimidation, keeping cases that should be filed from seeing the light of day.

It certainly will deny the tort system to anyone without the financial resources to see it through. Forget small businesses, it is the large companies with very deep pockets who are popping open the bottles of champaign in the board room, laughing their asses off.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
Here, only cases that have a firm foundation in law will make it to court, or better yet, even the threat of court.

That was really the case before in Texas - this wasn't the first Tort Reform Law down there. The original one did it's job in ensuring that the trial lawyers did a full evaluation of a potential case and only filed the ones that had real merit, and they certainly accept cases with care.

Looking at the second law with the first one in mind there is little but intimidation in the second law.

Lots of lawyers (defense as well as trial) looking for other work as long as this law stays on the books.

And insurance premiums will NOT go down. The first Tort Law in Texas did not lead to a reduction in insurance premiums for medical providers. There was no reductions in employers and patients paying lower premiums or paying for medical care provided. Only a fool would believe that the insurance companies will give a sucker an even break.


User currently offlineairportugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3610 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2):
Only a fool would believe that the insurance companies will give a sucker an even break.

Sadly true; insurance companies will always find some reason to keep rates the same or raise them.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2):
The first Tort Law in Texas did not lead to a reduction in insurance premiums for medical providers.

Because as you have been shown before, medical malpractice liability insurance is sold on an nationwide basis, not a State by State basis so we in Texas still pay for Californian and New Yorker based frivolous lawsuits that win big awards. If we had nationwide medical malpractice tort reform prices would come down correspondingly as both insurance companies and medical professionals would lower prices to attract more business, same as every other industry does. Since the medical malpractice tort reform law was passed we as a State have seen a 60% increase in medical professionals hanging out their shingles which has led to lower wait times and more convenient access for all.

But of course according to your previous posts these are all the quacks and washouts.   

This law is limited in size and scope. It is aimed at protecting the business owner from people and lawyers trying to make a quick buck from their own stupidity. For example, people that are too stupid to watch where they are walking and fall down then sue the business owner for their own stupidity. Another example would be the idiot who stands on the top rung of a folding ladder, or picks up the lawnmower to trim the bushes. You do realize that is why those stickers are on those items don't you?


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6594 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

Frivolous suits aren't really the problem, it's enormous awards that are. Like winning millions because you broke a leg, slipping on a French fry at McDonald's...


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21558 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2246 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 4):
This law is limited in size and scope.

Have you got a link to some summary that details those limits? Since the article you posted makes it seem like it's a cut-and-dry "you lose you pay" deal, which I wouldn't be too thrilled with.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8124 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2):
keeping cases that should be filed from seeing the light of day

Nonsense - if a plaintiffs' attorney is worth their salt, they will not file cases that are without merit. Cases where legitimate wrongdoing has occurred can and should be litigated.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2):
It certainly will deny the tort system to anyone without the financial resources to see it through.

Nonsense. If there is ample evidence, then going to Court on a contingency should be a no-brainer.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21558 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2216 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
Cases where legitimate wrongdoing has occurred can and should be litigated.

And people shouldn't be afraid to go to court in those cases just because some large company might be able to throw a whole lot of high-money lawyers at them and then stick them with the bill.

As long as there's protection for that, I've got no problem with this sort of thing. But let's not kid ourselves into think that everyone comes into court on an equal footing - McDonalds coffee-like examples aside, most of the time it's the business that can afford to higher the bigger lawyers to outmaneuver the little guys. And they don't need to be given any more advantages.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8220 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2185 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 4):
Because as you have been shown before, medical malpractice liability insurance is sold on an nationwide basis, not a State by State basis so we in Texas still pay for Californian and New Yorker based frivolous lawsuits that win big awards.

Let's ber honest here. Texas isn't RI. It IS a large enough state to have their own risk pool. Only a sucker (or well paid politician) would have let the first law pass without requiring a State Level Risk Pool. How simple is that? I've told you that before IIRC.  

So were your politicians bought off with "campaign contributions" or are they just plain dumb? Or do you current Texans now believe in giving away something valuable for absolutely nothing.

Quoting dxing (Reply 4):
But of course according to your previous posts these are all the quacks and washouts.

I haven't said that. I have said that the Doctor responsible for my sister's death was a quack and should have, IMHO, gone to prison. But in Texas they just keep working without too much of a care.

Quoting dxing (Reply 4):
Since the medical malpractice tort reform law was passed we as a State have seen a 60% increase in medical professionals hanging out their shingles which has led to lower wait times and more convenient access for all.

And the question you have never answered is how many of those medical providers have moved to Texas because they can no longer get insurance in their home state? And have a long line of patients talking to lawyers. We had two in Tulsa that can't get insurance. One is moving to prison and one has moved to Texas.

And you can have him!         


User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2174 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):
Have you got a link to some summary that details those limits?
http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/text/307925


http://www.setexasrecord.com/news/23...e-loser-pays-bills-in-house-senate

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
And people shouldn't be afraid to go to court in those cases just because some large company might be able to throw a whole lot of high-money lawyers at them and then stick them with the bill.



And lawyers who spend a lot of time advertising that they can get you a big reward if you sue ought to have to pay when their frivolous case gets tossed out. That's where I see this going. Before too long there will be ads by attorneys telling you if you sued and lost and have to pay a court cost, come see them and they will sue the attorney that lost the case for those fees. I just don't think that personal injury attorneys are above eating their own.


User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2168 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
And the question you have never answered is how many of those medical providers have moved to Texas because they can no longer get insurance in their home state?


I know of at least one (1). On the follow up visit my sons surgery the surgeon inform us that if any further follow up was required, it would be handled by a different surgeon as he was moving to Texas.


User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
Let's ber honest here. Texas isn't RI. It IS a large enough state to have their own risk pool.

No, unfortunately, it is not.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
I haven't said that.

Right...lets see, in this thread alone...

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
But in Texas they just keep working without too much of a care
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
And the question you have never answered is how many of those medical providers have moved to Texas because they can no longer get insurance in their home state?

your meanings have been clear.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8220 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2052 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 12):
No, unfortunately, it is not.

Did the insurance industry tell you that?

And did you believe them?         

Quoting dxing (Reply 12):
your meanings have been clear.



My meaning was meant to be clear - that dude who loft Tulsa for Dallas was a pathetic dentist based on the opinions of other dentists in the area. They would have preferred to have his license pulled, but settled for him moving to Texas.

And the bum is working in Texas without a care in the world, especially since this last gift from the lawmakers.

Used to be that the incompetent in the medical professions were hounded to death by the trial lawyers. Now they are just hounded to Texas.

And, no. I am not saying all the doctors, dentists, etc in Texas are bad. Some are exceptional. But why would an incompetent one stay in their home state when Texas is working so hard to protect them?

And you always seem to ignore the real question that Texans should be aware of:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
And the question you have never answered is how many of those medical providers have moved to Texas because they can no longer get insurance in their home state?

Don''t you think that the Good People in Texas deserve to know the answer to that question?


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8827 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2039 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):

Nonsense - if a plaintiffs' attorney is worth their salt, they will not file cases that are without merit. Cases where legitimate wrongdoing has occurred can and should be litigated.

No question. If you have clearly been wronged you'll find dozens of lawyers willing to take your case. What this measure is supposed to help stop is the stupid stuff - you trip in the aisle and sue the store, that sort of thing. Those are the "Litigation Lottery" or Dartboard Lawsuits" suits - file fifty and win one, but that one pays millions.

I will point out that according to the article the Texas Senate passed this bill unanimously - 31-0. Sounds like probably a good bill with that sort of bipartisan support.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1006 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2039 times:

Texas always seems to rush to the bottom in many regards. All this will do is make people with legitimate concerns hesitate to enter a courtroom.


A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2021 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
Did the insurance industry tell you that?

Who told you that it is big enough to have its own risk pool for medical malpractic insurance? Given that the total population of Texas is less than 10% of the entire country, I highly doubt that our medical professionals make up much more than that. As usual you throw out an argument that even you can't back up with any substance. It is your opinion and nothing more. Since you are the one making the claim about the risk pool being big enough, back it up with some facts for a change.


Quoting Ken777 (Reply 13):
Don''t you think that the Good People in Texas deserve to know the answer to that question?

Sure, and you can research any doctor you wish at numerous websites available to the public. All you have to do is research. It also helps small business employers find health insurance for their employees instead of complaining about how they couldn't find anything affordable.

[Edited 2011-06-18 20:40:32]

[Edited 2011-06-18 20:49:00]

[Edited 2011-06-18 20:50:20]

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8220 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1998 times:

Quoting dxing (Reply 16):
Given that the total population of Texas is less than 10% of the entire country, I highly doubt that our medical professionals make up much more than that.

Given the wealth in Texas it is absurd that there was no provision in either legislature handouts to the insurance companies that [b]required{/b] a Texas only risk pool.

Think about it. Insurance companies can build risk pools of any size. Texas (like other states) has their own health insurance companies - they are big enough for THAT. But they are not large enough for a different type of insurance pool. Bull.

And you (or your employer continues to pay sucker level premiums because the legislators were happy with their deal with the insurance companies.

Quoting dxing (Reply 16):
Sure, and you can research any doctor you wish at numerous websites available to the public.

Cop out answer.

I'm talking about distributions of all doctors (and other medical providers) who came to Texas with multiple lawsuits in a previous state and those who moved without any litigation history behind them.

My bet is that you really don't want to know those numbers.


User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1991 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
Given the wealth in Texas it is absurd that there was no provision in either legislature handouts to the insurance companies that [b]required{/b] a Texas only risk pool.

Sure they could, and their premiums would have been outrageous given the physical numbers involved. The same reason various types of insurance are expensive, the risk pool is smaller in number and therefore everyone involved has to pay more.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
Cop out answer.

So researching a doctor, or any other medical professional before going to see them is a cop out?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
I'm talking about distributions of all doctors (and other medical providers) who came to Texas with multiple lawsuits in a previous state and those who moved without any litigation history behind them.

The sites you can reach on the web will list any malpractice suits. When choosing a new family practioner after ours moved to Marshall, Texas I found a couple with question marks. I bypassed them. Anyone, using a library computer, could do the same.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
My bet is that you really don't want to know those numbers.

Feel free to do some research. Of course I did my research before going to see him. It is part of what I consider to be my personal responsibility for taking care of myself and my family.


In the case of the new law you'd better have a good case when you show up to file instead of an attorney that is just looking to make a buck.


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