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NY Woman Arrested For Filming Police On Own Lawn  
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2149 times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtJpL2ZdWVI&feature=feedu

This video allegedly shows how on May 12th, a Rochester woman was arrested for taping a traffic stop in front of her home. She was standing in front of her house with a hand held recording device when the arrest happened. Officer Mario Masic of the Rochester Police Department executed the arrest.

Video released by Rochester Independent Media Center.

Our country is screwed up....

This woman was on her own lawn people!

I hope this cop loses his job or they face a lawsuit

This cannot happen in America....we are inching more and more toward a police state....


Our Returning Champion
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2120 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Thread starter):
Our country is screwed up....

This woman was on her own lawn people!

I hope this cop loses his job or they face a lawsuit

This cannot happen in America....we are inching more and more toward a police state....

Quite a bit of drama but I doubt we are inching toward anything. Sounds like an bad apple officer but also like this woman wasn't just on her lawn. Seems like she got a bit closer and had a verbal exchange before hand. The officer will probably lose his job though I can't for the life of me find a reason why she would be taping this stop. Doesn't sound like any excessive force or anything else was in play here.

This officer was in the wrong but it's apparent that no credible major news orgs picked up the story that there is probably a little more to the story than an out of control Gestapo that just arrests anyone they feel like it.


User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Thread starter):

This woman was on her own lawn people!

There are a lot of illegal activities you can do on your own lawn. Not that what she was doing was illegal.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 1):

This officer was in the wrong but it's apparent that no credible major news orgs picked up the story that there is probably a little more to the story than an out of control Gestapo that just arrests anyone they feel like it.

Probably. But, I do get pissed when a cop tries to make a completely reasonable arrest and there's 50 d-bags standing around with their smartphones videotaping him/her.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12569 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2059 times:
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Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 2):
But, I do get pissed when a cop tries to make a completely reasonable arrest and there's 50 d-bags standing around with their smartphones videotaping him/her.

Anything that encourages them to behave appropriately is a good thing, no?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2050 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 3):
Anything that encourages them to behave appropriately is a good thing, no?

I was a little more concerned about the incident in Miami where police opened up on a guy and then threatened a civilian nearby and tried to or did grab their cell.

This one sounds a little different. I don't mind someone taking vid of police in action. Just don't interfere or engage them in convo. Let them do their job and if they cross the line you got it on video.


User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2033 times:

In the video the officer alleges that she was saying something to them before she started taping. We have no reason to doubt that statement. Depending on what it was she said, or did, she may well have been obstructing the investigation. For instance, if she was verbally interrupting/questioning the officers' actions while they were conducting the initial arrest, this would constitute obstruction of a police officer under the Canadian code. (I am more familiar with the Canadian Criminal code than the US equivalents). All I'm saying is that it's possible that she was breaking the law prior to the taping, and that her refusal to stop standing behind the officers (yes, on her lawn) while pointing an object at them in the dark would constitute probable cause for continuation of that offence.

The arrest is not justified based on what we see on the video, but I am fairly confident there's more to the story .There usually is. As usual, in the media we only get the side of those who are against the police. We also don't have the whole story on the nature, or danger, of the situation the police were dealing with before Good started taping. The fact that she acknowledges she was taping because of her concerns regarding 'police misconduct' suggest that she was not the neutral observer she claims to be.

In any case, the officer has as much right to presumption of innoncence (in the internal investigation, as well as in any possible criminal investigation), as does Ms. Good.

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2031 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 2):
There are a lot of illegal activities you can do on your own lawn. Not that what she was doing was illegal.

She wasn't....she was on her on property doing a constitutionally protected activity...this cop needs to lose his job or someones gotta cough up a lot of dough....

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 2):
Probably. But, I do get pissed when a cop tries to make a completely reasonable arrest and there's 50 d-bags standing around with their smartphones videotaping him/her.

Keeps everybody honest...



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1999 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 6):
She wasn't....she was on her on property doing a constitutionally protected activity...this cop needs to lose his job or someones gotta cough up a lot of dough....

Again, you don't know that. It may be true, in which case the cop should be disciplined for sure. It may also be that she broke the law in question. Again, we don't know what she did before she started taping, or what the other people she was with were doing. People are too focused on the fact that it's not illegal to film the police. That's correct, it's not illegal, but it's not certain that that's all she and her associates were doing.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 6):
Keeps everybody honest...

Interesting. Would you defend it if the police were filming you while you went about your business?

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7704 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1988 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 3):
Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 2):
But, I do get pissed when a cop tries to make a completely reasonable arrest and there's 50 d-bags standing around with their smartphones videotaping him/her.

Anything that encourages them to behave appropriately is a good thing, no?

No, not necessarily. Firstly, it is unwanted and unnecessary pressure, applied in an already stressful situation when the officer needs to be focused and safe dealing with an arrest or struggle. It is a distraction, potentially a dangerous one. Secondly, when resistance is encountered or the officer has to defend himself, such casual filiming provides opportunities galore to take small amounts of footage totally out of context and show reasonable force or other actions to be anything but reasonable. So no, it is just not always that simple.

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 7):
Would you defend it if the police were filming you while you went about your business?

And that's the other thing. Yes they are public servants, but nobody would like a camera in the face at work. They have a job to get on with without that kind of hassle.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinegreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1980 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Thread starter):
Our country is screwed up....

This woman was on her own lawn people!

I dont see the greater connection. The US has a plethora of reality TV shows with cameramen following police officers. If this was actually a situation in which the Police officer was wrong, it would be hard to argue that it's systemic. Some police forces in the US have employed miniature video cameras that officers wear to record chases/arrests, for use in court.



Now you're really flying
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1977 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 3):
Anything that encourages them to behave appropriately is a good thing, no?

Video taping police is not always someone just trying to encourage the police to behave well. Many police officers in the states already carry cameras on their body armor that tapes everything they do in addition to dash cams in their vehicles.

The vast majority of the time the citizenry filming police is fine. In some cases, it could add to the officers description of events and in others potentially save the officers job if there is a different description of events. But these things are all situational. My point is if you are going to videotape the police, do it in a manner that does not interfere with the situation. Sometimes people point cameras at the police to intimidate them. When it's done for that reason, it is interference with a law enforcement officer and can be grounds for arrest.

Again, I'm not saying this woman was doing anything wrong, only that if the police are in a tense situation and a bunch of people start sticking cameras in their face don't be surprised if they get arrested for obstruction or interference. One can videotape, that's fine, if that's all that's going on.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2328 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1966 times:

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 7):
Would you defend it if the police were filming you while you went about your business?

Been to NYC lately? NYPD has surveillance cameras in lots of places, filming the public while they go about their business...it happens in many places, all in the name of "security".



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineALTF4 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1212 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1961 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 3):
Anything that encourages them to behave appropriately is a good thing, no?
Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 6):
Keeps everybody honest...

Where do you guys work? I'll schedule a flight out to tape you from 9-5 (or whatever your work hours are) and any time you mess up, I will stop by your manager's office and show them.

Thanks for volunteering!



The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1954 times:

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 7):
Interesting. Would you defend it if the police were filming you while you went about your business?

They already do.....in alot of places like the UK, New York City, etc...

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 12):

Where do you guys work? I'll schedule a flight out to tape you from 9-5 (or whatever your work hours are) and any time you mess up, I will stop by your manager's office and show them.

No need the surveillance cameras work fine....



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8508 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

Lots of states (and not coincidentally they're often ones with the biggest, most sclerotic state governments) have laws that make it illegal to videotape a police officer without his consent. It's absolutely wrong that those laws exist, but they do in many states.

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7919 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1949 times:

Wow, I hope some of yall make a lapse in judgement and "lose your job or cough up a lot of dough." It's really sickening to hear how anti-cop some of yall are, sure he might've made a mistake, but to be fired or be out millions? Give me a break, most cops are very good people and are willing to take a bullet for you. Who cares if one cop pissed you off one time for YOU speeding or something...


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
Give me a break, most cops are very good people and are willing to take a bullet for you. Who cares if one cop pissed you off one time for YOU speeding or something...

And 99.9% of the video with cops in it shows someone else other than the cop committing a crime.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7704 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1930 times:
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Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
most cops are very good people and are willing to take a bullet for you. Who cares if one cop pissed you off one time for YOU speeding or something...

Yup, it's ridiculous. Nowhere is this felt worse than in the UK, where large parts of the media love to stir up anti-police sentiment and encourage morons to moan about what a waste of space they are, or how they couldn't catch a cold let alone a criminal. They pay NO attention to the fact that these guys are out risking their necks to look after us all. People are selfish beyond belief sometimes. So many evil bastards taken off the street by the Police every day, and yet many in our society are more interested in the one time they saw an officer eating food on his break (yeah, shocking eh? Police needing to eat to stay functional on a long duty.....) or the relatively small number of times when things don't go to plan (taking no account of the fact that Policing can be a highly unpredictable business, and that criminals tend not to tell the Police in advance what their plans are). People really do need to give Police officers a break. At least try and see it from their point of view.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 7):
Interesting. Would you defend it if the police were filming you while you went about your business?

Are you also against cockpit voice recorders?

If your job gives you massive responsibility, then you'll have to deal with the scrutiny that comes with it. If the possibility of being recorded is so troublesome there are many other jobs available that may make them happier.



A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 15):
Wow, I hope some of yall make a lapse in judgement and "lose your job or cough up a lot of dough." It's really sickening to hear how anti-cop some of yall are, sure he might've made a mistake, but to be fired or be out millions?
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 17):
Wow, I hope some of yall make a lapse in judgement and "lose your job or cough up a lot of dough." It's really sickening to hear how anti-cop some of yall are, sure he might've made a mistake, but to be fired or be out millions?

It's the police.....somebody can end up dead or arrested and locked up for a long time.....
These guys have immense power out there...
Think police beatings, false imprisonments, Oakland transit shootings, etc
So yea it bothers me but it's just a "mistake" right?



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1882 times:

Quoting N867DA (Reply 18):
Are you also against cockpit voice recorders?

Three things that make your analogy silly:

1) If I recall correctly, the consensus on here has always been that voice recorders make sense because they don't record indefinitely, but re-write themselves and are therefore only examined in the case of a serious incident, in which they've obviously saved the relevant data because the plane is no longer flying. In other words, pilots are subject to examination of relevant data from serious investigations. Do you seriously think this is the equivalent of some 'activist' who is "concerned about pilot's misconduct" coming into the cockpit and recording them doing their job in a tense situation, say, heavy turbulence? Because that's basically what happened here.

2) When cockpit data are examined, they're examined in a)full detail, and not misleading individual tidbits, and b)the examination is done carefully done by professionals, not by idiots on youtube.

3) Data on the pilot's behaviour is analyzed within the context of all the recorded flight data, i.e., all the situational factors are taken into account, which help to understand the pilot's actions and reactions. The same is absolutely not the case when people post short clips of police activity on youtube. Who was recording the beginning of this situation as it developed? Who was filming the woman and her friends while they were out doing whatever it is they were doing? We dont' know, do we? You don't see cops posting videos of the stupid things shitheads do to them all the time, do you? I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for most officers to find some good footage, but luckily for all of us, most officers have more integrity than the average person seems to have.

There's absolutely no comparison between this and cockpit recordings.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 13):
They already do.....in alot of places like the UK, New York City, etc...

Big difference between cameras filming everything that's going on in a public area, where everyone in the scene is shown and the totality of a situation can be observed and analyzed, and a situation where only the cop is being filmed, by someone who may well be trying to interfere with them. Cameras that are filming everyone may indeed be too much, but at least they're equal in who they film and are not intrinsically biased by the goals of their editors.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 14):
Lots of states (and not coincidentally they're often ones with the biggest, most sclerotic state governments) have laws that make it illegal to videotape a police officer without his consent. It's absolutely wrong that those laws exist, but they do in many states.

I agree that that's wrong, and we don't have laws like that here. Like I said, to me the issue in this story is that, in context, the filming of the comments that we may not have heard may constitute obstruction, depending on the circumstances. That's a far cry from saying there should be blanket laws prohibiting filming an officer.

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7704 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1872 times:
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Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 19):
So yea it bothers me but it's just a "mistake" right?

Please don't misquote me. I did not write what was quoted. But in any case, nobody has suggested mistakes shouldn't be dealt with, and nobody has suggested that incidents of actual Police brutality or other misconduct should be treated as mistakes, or left uninvestigated or unpunished. People should appreciate though that Policing is a damn hard job worthy of respect, and people should also learn to let the Police get on with that job unhindered. Indeed, they should help the Police any way they can rather than arguing with them and attempting to 'assert their rights' to being an ass while the officer tries to do his work. If that means going back into your house so that the officer has less to keep an eye on for a few minutes then so be it. The woman in the video was after trouble from the start, it's as plain as day.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 20):
Big difference between cameras filming everything that's going on in a public area, where everyone in the scene is shown and the totality of a situation can be observed and analyzed, and a situation where only the cop is being filmed, by someone who may well be trying to interfere with them. Cameras that are filming everyone may indeed be too much, but at least they're equal in who they film and are not intrinsically biased by the goals of their editors.

What's wrong with asking for more transparency with the police force? The cop was never "in danger" as his partners didn't seem to worry about "their safety"....

And besides what crime did she violate?



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineJean Leloup From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2116 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1872 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 19):
Think police beatings

Do you want to chat about beatings of police, too? Probably doesn't suit your agenda. I know an officer who was beaten within an inch of his life by three drunk low-life's who lured him and his partner into their house in a false 911 call. His partner will never work again due to serious eye damage inflicted when her head was repeatedly kicked by these three guys. They'll be out of jail in two years, and I'm sure they'll be looking for this officer again. I bet you'd be the first one to call for my friend's firing if he's a little too quick to arrest one of them if they get in his face while he's dealing with someone else... as long as it's put on YouTube where you're obviously capable of making a full and fair judgment of the situation.

Some people make me sick, and I'm glad we have better people out there who are willing to work hard to protect us.

I'm done with this discussion.

JL



Next flight.... who knows.
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1869 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 21):

So let me ask you this....what crime did she commit?



Our Returning Champion
25 thegreatRDU : That's your country's problem Ok peace!
26 N867DA : Every encounter with the police has a possibility to result in an arrest or citation, which means the suspect will have to go to court. Thanks that p
27 RussianJet : Why would you ask me this? I obviously am no expert in the laws of that state, or of the US as a whole. I have eyes though, and ears, and she wanted
28 ZANL188 : Cops actions are perfectly justified. He asked her to go back in the house. She refused. He did not ask her to stop recording.
29 RussianJet : Seriously?? They don't?? Come on, be realistic. I can accept absolutely that there are people out there who rightly or wrongly believe they have good
30 Post contains images thegreatRDU : Yea ......that would probably be a crime in Iran or Saudi Arabia but this is the United States of America.....and it's not here....
31 N867DA : I agree wholeheartedly. Some (okay, many) people do record police officers with the intent of putting it up on youtube or facebook. But the rights of
32 RussianJet : Like the woman in the video here was clearly trying to do. She could have continued from the house. She was clearly after the response.
33 DeltaMD90 : OK maybe I shoulda explained this better. And I wasn't talking about everyone on here, only the ones making anti-cop-in-general comments or the ones b
34 Aesma : About the argument that someone taking the video can chose what to show, I agree somewhat : if the video doesn't show the whole story, that has to be
35 PanHAM : I am not a keen defender of the US police or justice system but in this case that woman was - to put it politely - stupid. She was interfering with po
36 scbriml : If they're focused on the job in hand, they should probably be unaware of anyone filming them. If the Rodney King incident hadn't been filmed, I'm su
37 RussianJet : In a dynamic situation like that you need to be aware of what EVERY person near you is about. Someone who is going to disrupt a situation or attack an
38 GQfluffy : She was on the sidewalk before backing into her lawn. He points it out, she backs up two steps into the yard, then says "This is my yard." She's arrog
39 ronglimeng : The opening scene looked like something from "Cop's" - you know - the "arrest porn" TV show. I do wish the lady who was standing up for her rights had
40 gatorfan : Absolutely not. The police have no right to come into my home or office (absent consent, a warrant or a variety of other exceptions) and film me doin
41 DeltaMD90 : That's why bad cops don't want video. As for normal cops, it does piss them off when they do their jobs to the best to their ability then some asshol
42 thegreatRDU : I miss the Constitution...
43 N867DA : I do have empathy, but as a private citizen who is pretty powerless in court, how much should I trust a random stranger with the authority to potenti
44 DeltaMD90 : And I agree with what you are saying. I was talking about some other posters. You basically sum up how I feel. I felt a need to defend cops before it
45 windy95 : She also had been arrested earlier this year for protesting in front of a foreclosed home. She knew what she was doing and played the victim.
46 Post contains images futurepilot16 : You're out of your mind. Nobody is gonna record a traffic stop which has nothing, NOTHING to do with them, unless they're just nosy and want to cause
47 gatorfan : Have you ever noticed that police unions protect good cops and bad cops equally? The most amazing thing about that who incident was that the police d
48 RussianJet : Comes as no surprise. She clearly knew exactly what she was up to, and did a very poor job of playing a convincing victim. Trouble makers like her de
49 par13del : Ever wonder why the law exist in the first place, I note recently even in the US when special response squads or SWAT show up they wear covers over t
50 DeltaMD90 : Wait, let me fix that for you: How is that just a police problem? I feel bad for ya man, I live in a place where I can trust my officers. Just becaus
51 EMBQA : Hate to break it to you but the officer did nothing wrong and was totally just in his actions. For his and the other officers safety he asked that sh
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