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Will California Have To Be Bailed Out?  
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2006 times:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/cali...republicans-basically-moronic.html

It's funny to hear Dems call someone a moron but things in CA are going south. It's not a surprise Brown would't be brave enough as Cuomo or Christie but this has all the markings of a huge problem soon. The Dems in CA want nothing cut and just want to tack on fees to car registrations, raise sales taxes and dream up new taxes on things like soda. At the same time losing population and losing the people that hire. Also let us not forget the open border sanctuary policies that further bankrupt the state.

So on it's current course when does Brown or whomever is in office realize it's time to go to D.C. with hand out and hat in hand?

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19521 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

California needs a Constitutional Convention. This whole ballot initiative thing was a bad idea.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25082 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

No bail out needed.

Because one-way or the other we will have a fiscally responsible balanced budget.

Just not enough blood letting cuts have been agreed to by the Dem yet. Once they chop enough we'll be OK.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

The real problem here is the initiative process. I'm sure both sides are trying their hardest to ruin the state in their own special ways but as long as you can amend the constitution with a few petition signatures things will keep going south.

User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1970 times:

Oh but I thought marijuana was going to solve all our problems?

Everybody just needs to get stoned, it's all good.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1963 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
This whole ballot initiative thing was a bad idea.

I agree, Prop 13 is a great example. Though I don't want to see extremely high property taxes it put the state behind the eight ball especially since CA has no toll revenue either. Creates a huge void in revenue.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 4):
Oh but I thought marijuana was going to solve all our problems?

Everybody just needs to get stoned, it's all good.

I am for making all drugs legal. I mean forget the tax revenue just the money you save in police resources is enough.


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8124 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
Prop 13 is a great example. Though I don't want to see extremely high property taxes it put the state behind the eight ball especially since CA has no toll revenue either. Creates a huge void in revenue.

My grandparents and most of their generation still think Prop 13 is the greatest thing ever. They don't even get how much damage it is. My grandmother cited opposition to Prop 13 in '78 as the reason for not voting for Brown this time around!



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8827 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1870 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
My grandparents and most of their generation still think Prop 13 is the greatest thing ever. They don't even get how much damage it is

And I don't get why you think people should pay tax on property they own, over and over again. 1%, OK. Maybe 1.5 or 2% may be tolerable. But to eliminate the restriction at a time when the governments are screaming for cash, you'll see proposed rates of 5-10% before long.

Imagine owning a modest $200,000 house (that's very modest in California) and having to shell out an additional $10-$20K per year. All that has a Present Value, and would have to be factored into the selling price of the house. In other words, if you think the current situation with housing prices is bad, just wait until you add additional taxes to home ownership. Nobody would want to own.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineKngkyle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 401 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1857 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

http://usdebtclock.org/state-debt-cl...tate-of-california-debt-clock.html
http://usdebtclock.org/state-debt-cl...cks/state-of-texas-debt-clock.html

Not much of a difference.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1850 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
And I don't get why you think people should pay tax on property they own, over and over again.

They don't but in abscence of no tolls where is the money going to come from? You don't have to have insane high property taxes but this is way too low. With no tolls there is a huge short fall in revenue. With education and pensions totally gone where is this money going to come from?


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8124 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1837 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
Imagine owning a modest $200,000 house (that's very modest in California) and having to shell out an additional $10-$20K per year. All that has a Present Value, and would have to be factored into the selling price of the house. In other words, if you think the current situation with housing prices is bad, just wait until you add additional taxes to home ownership. Nobody would want to own.

According to the scheme set by Prop 13, my grandparents pay about $3K a year (with the requisite inflation adjustments) for a house they paid $17K for in 1958. Someone down the street who bought at $800K in 2005 has to pay $8K a year even though their house is down to $550K in market value now. How does that help the state?



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25082 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1820 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
I am for making all drugs legal. I mean forget the tax revenue just the money you save in police resources is enough.

I guess you are willing to ignore all the ills and the cost to society the wild west would bring if all drugs were legal.

No thanks.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 6):
My grandparents and most of their generation still think Prop 13 is the greatest thing ever. They don't even get how much damage it is.

Suggest you look East and see what the lack of taxation controls has done.

Its one thing if you live in a stable market where property values don't appreciate much, however California a state which overall has had a booming property market would see tons of people hurt without some form of control.

In places like NY people are loosing their homes, especially ones they have lived in a long time ago as they cannot afford the rising taxation due to constant value reassessment. A home that a couple might have paid $100,000 a few decades ago, now gets assessed at a tax rate for a $1,000,000 property. No thanks.


Anyhow, the state does not have a revenue problem, California has the 6th highest tax burden in the nation. We bring in tons of revenue, we just don't spend it wisely.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/s...dens_byyear_1977-2009-20110223.pdf

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 9):
They don't but in abscence of no tolls where is the money going to come from? You don't have to have insane high property taxes but this is way too low. With no tolls there is a huge short fall in revenue.

According to your logic a state with tolls and rising property taxes should be doing fine -- so what is wrong with New Jersey then??

As I mentioned above, CA does not have a revenue problem. It collects the one of highest per-capita revenue in the US.
It just does not know how to spend it frugally enough.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1817 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
I guess you are willing to ignore all the ills and the cost to society the wild west would bring if all drugs were legal.

No thanks

Which would be the same as they are now. So?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
According to your logic a state with tolls and rising property taxes should be doing fine -- so what is wrong with New Jersey then??

It's called very low gas taxes. thug unions who wanted everything and Corzine.Thanks to Cuomo and Christie give them 5 years and NJ and NY will be well on the road to prosperity while CA will be sinking like the titanic.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
CA does not have a revenue problem. It collects the one of highest per-capita revenue in the US.
It just does not know how to spend it frugally enough.

Like I said earlier a weak Jerry Brown, out of control education costs and sanctuary cities. CA had the chance to rescue themselves but chose to be the nanny state. It's a shame that such a beautiful state is in this shape with no hope.


User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6793 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1805 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
California needs a Constitutional Convention. This whole ballot initiative thing was a bad idea.

That's a contributory reason, certainly.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Anyhow, the state does not have a revenue problem, California has the 6th highest tax burden in the nation.

BINGO.

CA is screwed sideways because of a host of reasons, not the least of which is, and how do I put this politely....it's the most jacked-up leftist radical enviro-wackjob over-regulated place in the country.

And no one wants to address the pension relief issue. No one wants to touch entitlements. No one has the balls to talk about illegal immigration in CA that's adding billions upon billions to the rolls in terms of costs, the overcrowding in Federal prisons, etc.

California suffers from denial.

There should never be a bailout of CA....they can fix their own house.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
it's the most jacked-up leftist radical enviro-wackjob over-regulated place in the country.

Absolutely and the dotcom jobs are not cutting it. CA needs manufacturing and everything else.

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
And no one wants to address the pension relief issue. No one wants to touch entitlements. No one has the balls to talk about illegal immigration in CA that's adding billions upon billions to the rolls in terms of costs, the overcrowding in Federal prisons, etc.

California suffers from denial

Can I get an Amen! Spot on.

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
There should never be a bailout of CA....they can fix their own house.

Oh of course they can. Cuomo would have taken care of that state in two terms. Denial is only part of it. The state is full of people that don't want to fix it. They want to just keep putting their hand out. Keep voting for Boxer and people like Brown. You reap what you sew.


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2719 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1710 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 14):
Keep voting for Boxer and people like Brown. You reap what you sew.

I was happy Brown won. When the ship sinks I did not want a Republican at the wheel. Moonbeam Brown is a fitting captain of the goodship lollipop..Maybe some of those Hollywood leftist can bail the state out..



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8124 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1689 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
And no one wants to address the pension relief issue.

My grandmother is a lifelong Republican and former 27-year administrative employee of the Santa Clara County school district. She refuses any notion of pension givebacks, insisting "that's what we worked for and people don't know how difficult the schools are." She insists cuts should come from "overpaid" cops, firefighters, and wasteful liberal programs in the universities. While the latter is agreeable, we didn't get far in that conversation. I suspect her attitude is not different from other pensioners.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinecws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1630 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
California suffers from denial.

Indeed, but Californians will deal with that. Texans need not apply.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 15):
I was happy Brown won. When the ship sinks I did not want a Republican at the wheel.

It is neither your ship, nor your wheel. It is not as though there aren't enough problems in Florida deserving of your partisan, polemical input.



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19521 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1610 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):

I am for making all drugs legal. I mean forget the tax revenue just the money you save in police resources is enough.

That's been done already. $100 infraction.

The thing is that the state could make a LOT MORE by legalizing and taxing it.

Cannabis is THE SINGLE BIGGEST CASH CROP IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Yes, more than soy, more than corn, more than tobacco.

And do you know what the tax revenue from the sale of cannabis is?

$0.00

Now that's just stupid.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39836 posts, RR: 74
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1601 times:

California and many other states screwed themselves with 3-strikes laws and too many laws that lock people up in jail.
Release all the non-violent drug offenders, dead-beat dads and other people that didn't cause any harm to anyone but broke a law.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
That's been done already. $100 infraction.


That may be the case in a few counties but I doubt someone caught with marijuana in Modoc country would be slapped with a $100 infraction. They're gonna get hauled off to jail.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
and taxing it.


NO NEW TAXES!
How can you tax marijuana if it's grown in your own backyard? Your friend’s backyard?
That would require a government bureaucracy to come in with all of its regulations. Those people will need to get paid as well.
Legalize it and be done with it!

[Edited 2011-06-27 22:14:27]


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1584 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
I agree, Prop 13 is a great example. Though I don't want to see extremely high property taxes it put the state behind the eight ball especially since CA has no toll revenue either. Creates a huge void in revenue.

Prop 13 is a canard thrown out there every time poor spending habits come around. The average house is sold every 5 years. At that time the value is reassessed and the state gets its money. The effects of Prop 13 overcome 5 years after it passed - in the residential market. There is a case to be made in the commercial market however when a corporation can hold a property infinitely. Disneyland for example.

Quoting slider (Reply 13):

And no one wants to address the pension relief issue. No one wants to touch entitlements. No one has the balls to talk about illegal immigration in CA that's adding billions upon billions to the rolls in terms of costs, the overcrowding in Federal prisons, etc.

California suffers from denial.

To be fair, thse are federal responsibilities for which they will not reimburse the state. California ooes not have the authority to deport illegal criminals. I'm not going to mention the insanity of extending state resident university fees to illegals though.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
And do you know what the tax revenue from the sale of cannabis is?

$0.00

Now that's just stupid

You don't know what you're talking about. Medical marijuana, one of the greatest scams ever contrived by potheads is taxed.


User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1531 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
And do you know what the tax revenue from the sale of cannabis is?

$0.00



But that does not mean the city or State does not see revenue from busting illegal drug sales. Most States have forfeiture laws, which is why the local D.A.R.E officer is always driving the high end sports car. Plus that money usually goes straight into the police budget, or to the schools, and is not meddled with by the city council or State legislature.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
That's been done already. $100 infraction

Still have to waste officers time and resources to write the ticket. They are better served chasing real criminals.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
more than tobacco

Hmmm that would be something.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1495 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Anyhow, the state does not have a revenue problem, California has the 6th highest tax burden in the nation. We bring in tons of revenue, we just don't spend it wisely.

  

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 12):
Thanks to Cuomo and Christie give them 5 years and NJ and NY will be well on the road to prosperity while CA will be sinking like the titanic.

California will be just fine and your vitriol is unneeded. California will right itself, and it could well exceed New York and New Jersey simply becasue it is a very desirable physical location to live. Will it do it quickly and without pain, I doubt it. Remember, Reagan was a Californian, we aren't just a one note song.

Quoting slider (Reply 13):
There should never be a bailout of CA....they can fix their own house.

  

Quoting cws818 (Reply 17):
Quoting slider (Reply 13):
California suffers from denial.

Indeed, but Californians will deal with that. Texans need not apply.

   And not just to knock one state, no one else need apply either. We will fix our problems and will do just fine, in fact we will be great. I mean look at how bad the situation is right now and yet the state is still an economic powerhouse.

We HAVE to fix the deficit spending (and California is NOT the only state with this problem) and I hope improve the climate for business. Once we control the spending at least we will do very well.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
NO NEW TAXES!
How can you tax marijuana if it's grown in your own backyard? Your friend's backyard?
That would require a government bureaucracy to come in with all of its regulations. Those people will need to get paid as well.
Legalize it and be done with it!

Legalize it yes, but that will and should bring the same taxes that any other product sold incurs, and perhaps taxes similar to tobacco products. What is grown in your or your friends backyard is not an issue if it is not sold.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 20):
Prop 13 is a canard thrown out there every time poor spending habits come around. The average house is sold every 5 years. At that time the value is reassessed and the state gets its money. The effects of Prop 13 overcome 5 years after it passed - in the residential market. There is a case to be made in the commercial market however when a corporation can hold a property infinitely. Disneyland for example.

I agree with your comment. Prop 13 overall is fine but the problem is people are afraid (for good reason) to tweak it (for commercial properties as you note) where it needs to be changed.
The only thing I question is your number of "sold every 5 years", that was probably over the past ten years when many were flipping and riding their home value up and then trading up for a new house. I would be curious to know the years your number covers and what the number would be if you excluded "the stupid years".

Quoting mham001 (Reply 20):
You don't know what you're talking about. Medical marijuana, one of the greatest scams ever contrived by potheads is taxed.

"Medical marijuana" was just a necessary first step to allow some in society wrap their heads around the idea that perhaps marijuana is not all evil and bad. Scam? Not if you consider that the real goal is to legalize it. Now if people actually think it is JUST medicine, then yeah that would be a scam. I think people just needed an excuse to get the ball rolling.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1483 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 23):
California will right itself, and it could well exceed New York and New Jersey simply becasue it is a very desirable physical location to live. Will it do it quickly and without pain, I doubt it. Remember, Reagan was a Californian, we aren't just a one note song.

How? Brown has shown he is not going to the tough things needed. Businesses are leaving, more illegals are being given sanctuary to the cost of the already broke taxpayers and the leaderships idea is to just jack up taxes to try to make up the revenue. It's a very old song and has very little chance for success. California needs some new leadership. Fast.


25 Post contains links Aaron747 : In the budget Brown has just hashed out with the State Assembly, they are letting the tax increases expire. CA GOP is claiming victory even though th
26 DocLightning : No, that's actually state law. The Governator signed it a few months back. He said that the state's budget was being swamped by all the prosecutorial
27 Post contains images san747 : We agree on something! Because if drugs were legal, we'd all start doing them. Understatement. I have a friend in MIA that bitches to ME that CA has
28 NIKV69 : It's so funny that there are people that seriously think you can just tax your way out of debt and that no cuts should be made. It's the reason CA is
29 Post contains images Superfly : Does this retroactivley reduce the penalties for those in prison on a marijuna conviction? How about a 2-strikes criminal and had a 3rd. strike levie
30 ltbewr : Some of the things that made Califorina no longer have to be done in the state. That is killing off a lot of tax revenues but increasing demand for so
31 tugger : Actually the thing that excites me more is that if marijuana are legalized then hemp can be actually farmed and produced industrially. Hemp is a grea
32 Alias1024 : In a state with above average tax burdens and in many places sky high cost of living, Prop 13 is a good lure to get businesses to set up operations i
33 Post contains links mham001 : San Jose collected $290,000 in March from a 7% tax paid by collectives. This is in addition to business taxes and state sales tax. http://www.mercury
34 StarAC17 : Another reason that its illegal is that many corporations such as those whom make paper and certain fabrics/plastics are put at an incredible disadva
35 N1120A : We don't need a bail out. We need to stop bailing out the rest of the country.
36 DocLightning : Those are the collective taxes, yes. But not sales taxes paid for by the users. Dunno. Oh, but I think that "sin" taxes are the best kind of tax! Peo
37 mham001 : What part of "in addition to .....state sales tax" does not meet that criteria?
38 okie : Bad news for you there ltbewr, Obama just authorized a major funding from the US through the IMF specifically for Greece at US taxpayer expense. The
39 ltbewr : Yes I am aware of the USA's part as to the bail out of Greece, but the citizens there are being forced into tough austere government spending to get
40 Post contains links slider : Congrats California--you just F'd yourself even more! http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...mazon-tax-20110630,0,4344787.story More actions of desper
41 JakeOrion : You beat me to it. I was actually going to start a thread on this but figured it would be more appropriate here. I am not surprised by this whatsoeve
42 NIKV69 : Wow. I just don't know what else to say. Someone pull the rip cord already.
43 slider : What will be interesting is if there even can be any metric of what will be LOST businesses or small businesses that leave the state altogether. Cand
44 Aaron747 : Not sure about this statement where the Brown budget is cutting $18B in spending. If Democrats throughout the state are calling for the governor's he
45 tugger : I am curious why you think this is an error. Quite frankly I think that most if not all internet businesses should be required to collect sales taxes
46 NIKV69 : Post of the week!
47 Ken777 : I have a friend in Palo Alto who bought his house before Prop 13 so has had his taxes kept low. If he traded houses with his neighbor those taxes. Ne
48 cws818 : The silver lining is: at least we are not Texas. Thank you, however, for your input.
49 stasisLAX : I did - and left the Los Angeles area last year. The city of Long Beach is going bankrupt thanks to its pension obligations (mainly due to the police
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