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Do You Trust The Government To Educate Your Child?  
User currently offlineALTF4 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1214 posts, RR: 4
Posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

Over the past day or two, there has been some very disturbing news released regarding the Atlanta public school system. Close to 200 educators, and an alarming number of principles, participated in actively cheating and altering student's test scores in order to make the district score higher on the overall CRCT (placement tests) scores.

A few gems quoted from the AJC article cited below:

Quote:
“If anyone asks you anything about this just tell them you don’t know,” the report said Salters said. He told teachers to “just stick to the story and it will all go away.”
Quote:
Principal Gwendolyn Benton, who has since left, obstructed the investigation, too, the report said, when she threatened teachers by saying she would “sue them out the ass” if they “slandered” her to the GBI.
Quote:
Another told a teacher who saw tampering that if she did not “keep her mouth shut,” she would “be gone.”
Quote:
At Venetian Hills, a group of teachers and administrators who dubbed themselves “the chosen ones” convened to change answers in the afternoons or during makeup testing days, investigators found. Principal Clarietta Davis, a testing coordinator told investigators, wore gloves while erasing to avoid leaving fingerprints on answer sheets.

Here is the article: http://www.ajc.com/news/investigation-into-aps-cheating-1001375.html

So, do you trust your government to properly educate your kids? Do you trust people who are focused on advancing their career and getting honors and recognition while they claim to put your kid's future as their highest goal?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying all teachers or educators act like this. There are definitely some fantastic teachers out there who genuinely take interest in the kid's success. But it only takes one bad educator to poison the lot, as the article states. Teachers who would have not participated in the cheating scandal did so simply to protect their own job, or even their life.

I really, really, really hope the higher-ranking educators have the book thrown at them, with the maximum penalty allowed by law for lying to investigators, plus some other charges dealing with child endangerment, as these educators were knowingly and purposefully harming these children, by denying them the help they needed. Since the kids appeared to know the subjects they were being tested on, they did not get the additional help they would have. The teachers can probably be let off more lightly, though, since many of them were threatened. Still, that does not make their actions right.

Still, you know what befuddles me the most? People turn their noses at parents who see these problems but cannot afford private school, so turn to home education. I trust many, many parents more than these lying, deceitful, self-righteous, arrogant, and self-centered "educators" who we so willingly trust our children to. The last thing my parents would have done on my tests is alter my answers. They cared for me as a person - they loved me as their child - which is infinitely more than you can say for these "educators" who see your little Johnny as just one more statistic to manipulate.

I can't count how many people have tried to tell me that my parents did a great disservice to me by teaching me at home. One shining star of an example was a guy who was chatting with me before a meeting at work, and said (unaware of my background) that none of "those" kids have any chance at succeeding in life. I asked him what his college-age kid was up to, and he laughed and said he just got off the phone with him and he was asking for more money. I politely noted that I was home schooled and that we were sitting in the conference room of a fortune 100 company, and I was a year younger than his kid.

I hope each one of those principles is arrested, and if I wasn't gainfully employed, you could bet your last dollar I would try to be present for each one of those arrests to cheer. Like I said, throw the book at them. How dare they act as they did.

[Edited 2011-07-06 10:00:40]


The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40035 posts, RR: 74
Reply 1, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

Considering all the focus to indoctrinate kids in to global warming / climate change and feminism, I'd say no.
This story is shocking but sadly, I am not surprised.

Quoting ALTF4 (Thread starter):
I trust many, many parents more than these lying, deceitful, self-righteous, arrogant, and self-centered "educators" who we so willingly trust our children to.

Not all teachers are like this but a lot of them are and it seems these kinds of teachers are increasing at an alarming rate.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5739 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

Quoting ALTF4 (Thread starter):
So, do you trust your government to properly educate your kids?

Your question is wrong or poorly worded, however to give a simple answer:
Yes I trust the education that is being provided to my child by my community's state funded public schools.

There will always be people who do things improperly everywhere, both at public and private institutions, it does not mean that the institution or the product/service it provides is universally bad.

Tugg

[Edited 2011-07-06 10:27:29]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineStabilator From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 720 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2071 times:

After having a taste of both public and private schools, I will only send my kids to private schools, no matter the cost. The education I had at my private schools was rich, challenging, and thought provoking. I am very glad I never went to a public high school...the horror stories my friends have told me are shocking.


So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
User currently offlineALTF4 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1214 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 2):
There will always be people who do things improperly everywhere, both at public and private institutions, it does not mean that the institution of the product/service it provides is universally bad.

Of course there always will be. Yet, when it turns out that every level of administration and staff was involved in a massive cheating scandal, you can't cover that up. That's not like your plumber showing up with an expired license because he forgot to renew it the week before.

I'm sure there were plenty of people before this scandal was made public who thought very highly of the Atlanta public school system. So highly, in fact, that top administration was nationally recognized. You have to admit it is a bit unsettling, more than some little feeling you can simply brush aside, that this was going on for so long and has had such extensively damaging effects.

Quoting tugger (Reply 2):
Your question is wrong or poorly worded

Well, maybe I'm too dumb because I'm not government educated, but I don't see the issue with the question.



The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4751 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

Quoting ALTF4 (Thread starter):
Over the past day or two, there

You really need to go read Freakonomics, They already covered this issue in Chicago.
The issue really has to do with all of these perfomance bases requirements being placed on schools.
When the school is in a disadvantaged postion (IE high number of free lunches (A measure of poverty), there is a disproportionate punishment to the teachers within that location due to external factors beyond their control. The kids don't impove on tests, because , 1 high number of parents just don't care. 2 high number of kids just don't care. So the teachers either get the school closed down due to issues beyond their control, or they fudge the numbers.

Fudging the numbers is one of the reasons I never supported the No Child left behind act as the teachers get punished for issues beyond their control.

The Public school system is the last line of defense for education. Parents that care about their Children's education in a disadvantaged area will have already gone to a Charter School or Private school.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5739 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2048 times:

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 4):
Of course there always will be. Yet, when it turns out that every level of administration and staff was involved in a massive cheating scandal, you can't cover that up. That's not like your plumber showing up with an expired license because he forgot to renew it the week before.

I'm sure there were plenty of people before this scandal was made public who thought very highly of the Atlanta public school system. So highly, in fact, that top administration was nationally recognized. You have to admit it is a bit unsettling, more than some little feeling you can simply brush aside, that this was going on for so long and has had such extensively damaging effects.

You will find schools that are lacking just like you will find home educators that are lacking. The key thing is are the parent involved in their child's education? The care and guidance that parents provide to their children are the key to whether they will do well in life. The fact that a school is doing this is is of course disturbing and it should never have happened.

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 4):
Well, maybe I'm too dumb because I'm not government educated, but I don't see the issue with the question.

I see you are sensitive to the topic but I certainly did not imply you were dumb or say that you had a deficient education. The simple fact is that "the gub'ment" isn't educating my children. Teachers are and I am (and family and community). Teachers that I meet with regularly and discuss what is going on with the school, the class, and my child. Teachers that I know well enough to understand that do their best to provide my child a good education. Of course that is only part of the equation, actively involved parents are the most critical aspect of any child's education.

There is no "one best way" to educate a child (other than the aforementioned involvement of the parents). I am not picking sides here, I am not saying that home schooling is bad, but I am saying that public schooling is "not bad" just because it is publicly (i.e. via the state government) funded, that I trust the education that my children are receiving. And I trust it for good reason. You appear have your mind set on making a point. I am simply trying to answer your question.

Tugg

[Edited 2011-07-06 10:52:07]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2044 times:
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Quoting casinterest (Reply 5):
Parents that care about their Children's education in a disadvantaged area will have already gone to a Charter School or Private school.


A lot of people have been fooled by the Charter school movement. Many of them are just as poorly run and produce the same bad results as some public school. I should know I was a charter school teacher for 6 1/2 years and in that time I was saw all kinds of scams, including fudging numbers on enrollment to get more money. I saw money get paid out to contractors for services never provided and so on. The University that was chartering us was really in the business to make money. We paid them $22,000 a month for the use of their name and nothing else.

Charters Schools are very attractive on the primary grades because they are cheap to run and good result can be easy to get. Most charter high schools are disasters because a high school costs a lot to run and the needs of the students are a lot different. Everyone holds out the handful of Charters that are succeeding and saying look how great these schools are, but ignores the failing charters. Then the same media holds out the failing public schools and doesn't say a word about the ones who are getting things done.

Everyone wants to knock public schools and say they are broken. Yes some of them are, in my area, metro Detroit, some are failing badly. Detroit is a disaster and Highland Park is worse. The School district I teach in, Trenton, is doing just fine when it comes to academics. We are having problems due to reduction of students, because of the number of people leaving the area. Other districts in the area have good academic performance too. Everyone wants to fix all the public schools, but most of them are not broken. The problems are in urban and poor districts. The poorer the students the worse the problems are. I have heard that Detroit has a 50% illiteracy rate (Detroit Public Schools and National Disgrace on HDNet). When you have that kind of lack of education you are going to have children that come from homes where education isn't important. I have worked with teachers and administrators who have worked with teens and young adults in Detroit who have never been in school a day in their lives. Yes it is the law to be in school until you are 16, but if you never enroll they don't really know if you aren't there.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineALTF4 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1214 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2031 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):
I see you are sensitive to the topic but I certainly did not imply you were dumb or say that you had a deficient education.

No, sorry - it was a failed attempt at some sarcasm that the internet didn't catch.

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):
The simple fact is that "the gub'ment" isn't educating my children.

Yet the school system is funded by taxes, regulated by government officials, run by government elected officials, and held accountable via government officials. At least it is in my state and county. That passes the looks, sounds, quacks, and smells test for me. Sure, the teachers themselves are the ones teaching, but is it not obvious that they are very limited in what they can do?

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):
Their is no "one best way" to educate a child (other than the aforementioned involvement of the parents). I am not picking sides here, I am not saying that home schooling is bad, but I am saying that public schooling is "not bad", that I trust the education that my children are receiving. And I trust it for good reason. You appear have your mind set on making a point. I am simply trying to answer your question.

I think we agree. I'm a bit pissed off at the Atlanta public school system right now, for sure. I'm coming from the angle of "public schools are bad - but maybe not all of them are", you're coming from the side of "public schools are not bad - but maybe some of them are". In the end, I think we're both in the similar area of thinking, except I'm more obviously of the opinion that they shouldn't be trusted. The good thing is, the county I live in is not involved in the above-mentioned scandal, and the quality of education seems to be higher, with clear evidence pointing to that. Still - I just can't ignore the fact that issues like these really could be happening anywhere.



The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
User currently offlinemax999 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1077 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2018 times:

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 4):
Well, maybe I'm too dumb because I'm not government educated, but I don't see the issue with the question.


Your question is poorly worded because it is a leading question and it paints too broad of a stroke...all schools run by the government are bad. The issue at hand in Atlanta are about corruption and fraud, not about whether governments do a good job of teaching kids. There's corruption everywhere, private and public. So maybe your question would be more appropriate if you asked 'is there too much corruption in the Atlanta local government?'

By the way, I'm not sure what kind of an English education you received, but you misspelled the same word twice in your thread opener. Let me give you a hint...it starts with a P.

[Edited 2011-07-06 11:51:26]


All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
User currently offlineelmothehobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2018 times:

I trust them a whole lot more than many of the parents who are now homeschooling their children.

Such a glaring failure speaks more about the character of a few than the good of the vast majority of teachers.


User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10259 posts, RR: 26
Reply 11, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1992 times:
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Quoting Stabilator (Reply 3):
I am very glad I never went to a public high school...the horror stories my friends have told me are shocking.

It very much depends on the district, the administrators, the teachers, the students, and the parents. I went to a good public school district, and I have zero complaints about my education.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 7):
The University that was chartering us was really in the business to make money.

A business is a business is a business, whether it's a store, an autoshop, a university, whatever.

For example, I loathe the fact that universities give out honorary degrees to whomever, but I recognize that it brings attention (and therefore money) to said university.



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4751 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1986 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 7):
lot of people have been fooled by the Charter school movement

That has been my concern as well, but in General, the public schools in poor neighborhoods are going to get the worst possible students as a measure of percentages overall. Some Public Schools in poor neighborhoods may excel due to bussing , or other external factors, but they suffer.

I got a public school education, and I value it, but my classmates and I were diversified and had a strong military presence among the parents.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5739 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1986 times:

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 8):
No, sorry - it was a failed attempt at some sarcasm that the internet didn't catch.

Ahh! OK , I gotcha, no problem.   

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 8):
Yet the school system is funded by taxes, regulated by government officials, run by government elected officials, and held accountable via government officials. At least it is in my state and county. That passes the looks, sounds, quacks, and smells test for me. Sure, the teachers themselves are the ones teaching, but is it not obvious that they are very limited in what they can do?

I think the big disconnect that we have nowadays in the USA is that "the government" is technically "the people". In the community I live in, the parents are VERY involved in what happens and how things are run in the schools. If there are changes or policies or funding issues that the community does not like "the government" is made aware, quickly, loudly. The community works like crazy to fix them or address them. The teachers will have the support of the community if they are good teachers and if they are not then we voice our displeasure and they are "encouraged" to move on. And of course that is a big part of the reason I choose to live where I do.

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 8):
I think we agree.

I understand what you are saying, and Yes, I do agree with you. When it comes to my children I do not "trust" anyone beyond my wife and I for what is best. I trust people of course, but we watch, and listen, and talk, and make sure we know what is going on (as much as is possible) with our children. As you say you can't "just trust" things when it involves your child, you must keep involved and informed on what is going on and make informed decisions on what you feel is best. As Reagan said: "Trust but verify".

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1986 times:
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Quoting Stabilator (Reply 3):
I will only send my kids to private schools


That isn't an option for a lot of people regardless of cost. In many some areas (like Detroit) private schools are closing rapidly and have been for 10 years. I am amazed at the number of private schools that are now public charters. There just aren't enough private schools for the number of children out there. If you talk about private high schools there are even fewer and then usually only the best connected or brightest get in. Not every kid is a big wheel in the brain department or star athlete.

Another thing that some of you should know about Charter schools is that their boards are not openly elected, like a regular district wide school board. Also since they service one school, or small group of schools not usually in one town their board operations and meetings are often overlooked by the media and local tax payers. Even when I worked in a charter I was amazed at how many people in our community thought we were a private school. A lot of people think that charters are a private school. In Michigan and most other places, that I know of, they are funded by the tax payers. I saw things at board meetings for the charter that would never fly at public school. All of the board members were friends or relatives of the charter school management company. Not a one was a resident of the city our school was in. When we built a new building it was funny how the management company's owner had a brother who owned a construction firm who won the low bid contract, that later came in $800,000 over his bid. It was funny how a trustee of the board's husband (she was a family member of the management company owner) owned a lawn a garden firm that got our landscaping business and snow plowing contract. When his contract was up I told my buddy who does the same thing and he submitted a bid, which I know was lower than what we had been paying, because I paid the POs for the school (I did lots of things besides teach). Somehow my friend's bid turned out to be too high and the same person just kept doing the work. This kind of stuff may go on in big cities like Detroit, but in most schools this kind of thing would be noticed by the community and reported by the local press.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1965 times:
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Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 10):
I trust them a whole lot more than many of the parents who are now homeschooling their children.

I think a lot of homeschoolers are doing a disservice to their kids. I recall a lot of homeschoolers enrolling kids in our charter school for 9th grade. Most of them made the Detroit Public Schools kids looks like rocket scientists. I think their parents didn't bothering teaching them anything they didn't want to learn. I know two other home school families and they do a great job and their kids are top performers academically. However both sets of parents are well educated and really care for their kids. I have met home school parents who didn't even graduate from high school. I don't get it. I have to have all kinds of education and then go back to get University level training every 4 years in order to keep my teaching certificate and to "be qualified" to teach high schoolers. However I could be a high school dropout and teach my children at home.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 11):
A business is a business is a business, whether it's a store, an autoshop, a university, whatever.


I know... I am an unapologetic capitalist, but a lot of people see the University name and automatically think it will be a stellar school. I met parents who thought we got college level curriculum from the University, but we got nothing other than the right to exist. Most of our students came from Detroit Public Schools and were WAY below grade level.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineALTF4 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1214 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

Quoting max999 (Reply 9):
but you misspelled the same word twice in your the thread opener.

Hey, what can I say, spelling never was my strong point.  



The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1938 times:
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Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 16):
Hey, what can I say, spelling never was my strong point.

I just blame that stuff on auto correcting feature on my smart phone. It makes more mistakes than it fixes....



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineALTF4 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1214 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1935 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 17):
I just blame that stuff on auto correcting feature on my smart phone. It makes more mistakes than it fixes....

Well, his point is moot anyway - I just visited youtube and saw the spelling standards of today. Mixing up "principle" and "principal" is not a big deal, in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion.



The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
User currently offlinesuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40035 posts, RR: 74
Reply 19, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 16):
Hey, what can I say, spelling never was my strong point.

You can be Vice-President someday just like Dan Quayle.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 3006 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1914 times:

My parents don't. (Luckily for me...) but soon, it seems as if they will have no option.


The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1914 times:
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Quoting ALTF4 (Reply 18):
Well, his point is moot anyway - I just visited youtube and saw the spelling standards of today. Mixing up "principle" and "principal" is not a big deal, in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion.

Don't get me started on that topic. The spelling of even our best kids is has become worse in the last ten years. I have seen it with my own eyes, on the assignments the students turn in. Since the dawn of texting the spelling has become worse and worse. When I taught in Detroit most of the kids spelled things with a "z" that should have had an "s"; boyz, toyz, carz, etc. Words with an "er" were spelled with an "a". Words like dinner and disaster became dinna and disasta. The students explained to me that it was a "black thing" and I wouldn't understand. I see this kind of bad spelling on local businesses too. To many of those kids bad spelling, speech, and grammar were a badge of honor, to do things correctly was a sign of selling out.

I was once told, by a highly paid consultant on urban schools, that I needed to embrace the language of my students and not put my white value system on them. It wasn't long after that I left for a much better public school.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1905 times:
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For all the failure we hear of in the public schools we never hear of the successes. Just this year the seniors (about 250) at my high school (Trenton High School, Trenton, MI.) earned just over $1,000,000 in scholarship money. 85% were accepted to college/university, 5% plan on going to the military and the other 10% are going to be doing who knows. Some of them were going to work. Some will be lazy slackers, but not all that many, and you will get that out of any group of teens. Trenton is a south suburb of Detroit and is occupied by mostly middle class students living with families who go to work every day. You won't hear about us on TV or in the Detroit Free Press, but you will hear all about Detroit Public Schools and the way it is portrayed you would think all of the area schools are failing.


My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7685 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

Quoting superfly (Reply 1):
Considering all the focus to indoctrinate kids in to global warming / climate change and feminism, I'd say no.
This story is shocking but sadly, I am not surprised.

Sounds like the Norwegian school system, except you forgot to ad the smart kids have to be dumbed down to the same level as the stupidest children, all Norwegians are supposed to be the same you know.

My 6 year old speaks better English than his English teacher, it's embarrassing, we have asked for him to be moved up a few grades for English but this isn't allowed, he's supposed to learn a word a day along with the rest of the kids.


User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 3006 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

And to add to my above post.... If I ever have kids, I'd prefer them to go to private school. There is no comparison in terms of the resources the school itself has to keep it nice, and to afford quality teaching materials; for science and classes like that, it's very important. The bad thing about these schools is that they are prohibitively expensive, and out of reach for most.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
ounds like the Norwegian school system, except you forgot to ad the smart kids have to be dumbed down to the same level as the stupidest children, all Norwegians are supposed to be the same you know.

It's like that in many schools... Including my own, which is supposedly one of the most respected, and best, schools in the City. I have so many stories... Some are quite entertaining....



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
25 racko : In my opinion homeschooling has to be (at least) very carefully monitored and checked. Just as one would look very suspiciously at a parent who home-t
26 elmothehobo : Disagree, as falstaff has said. Poor spelling is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to poor education. It's embarrassing, and not to play 'bla
27 max999 : I take exception to what you wrote...mixing those two words is a big deal. They have completely different meanings! This is analogous to mixing up th
28 fr8mech : First, let me state, that I am a product of the New York Board of Education. I never stepped into a private school I attended a private university. As
29 Post contains images L410Turbolet : Isn't the focus of homeschooling on indoctrination of children as well (or at least to shield them from those nasty things like evolution theory, etc
30 fr8mech : There is a difference between indoctrination by the State and indoctrination by the family unit. Both can be harmful, but when done by State, it is a
31 elmothehobo : Spelling fail on my part :/ Absolutely, but the fact that a child goes to public school does not mean they are being indocrinated. The "Glenn Beck me
32 fr8mech : Didn't claim that it was...I was addressing the specific concern brought up in reply 29 by L410Turbojet. But, I will add that when the State, via the
33 KiwiRob : I'd love to send my kids to private school but they are few and far between in Norway, plus because they are seen as elitist which is a no no here th
34 Post contains images ALTF4 : I agree, of course there are two completely different meanings to those words! I acknowledged my mistake. My point was that if at my worst I mix up "
35 max999 : Now that I re-read what I wrote, I noticed how it came out wrong. That wasn't my intention at all...I meant basics by the fact that language skills i
36 L410Turbolet : I'd still think that there are more "checks and balances" employed to protect a child from harmful influence of school, not least by telling them the
37 Post contains images vikkyvik : Language skills are fundamental in education? I'm assuming that that is not one of those stupid exceptions of the English language about which I have
38 Post contains images ALTF4 : Not my intention. The quote below was supposed to be acknowledging my mistake with a hint of joking. And then: Anyway, I think I have established, fo
39 ALTF4 : And that is true. However, we trust these parents to take care of their kids properly 7,320 hours out of the year, and freak out when they might have
40 fr8mech : But, what if the system is geared in the direction of indoctrination? Again, global warming, because it is one of the prevalent topics: it is being t
41 Post contains images OA412 : Considering you don't have kids, and no longer live in the United States, may I ask what your source is for this information? You seem to be speaking
42 Confuscius : No! It's a socialist plot to teach secularism and anti-capitalism to our precious children. Teaching evolution and sex education leads to moral decli
43 fr8mech : You misunderstand me... I don't say that our children are being indoctrinated on a wide or even small scale. I am saying that it is possible and we s
44 Superfly : Same thing in some California schools. My niece was excelling faster than the rest of her class back when she was in elementary school. So they gave
45 Flighty : I see no reason the government needs to be in the school business. The public has the right to a K-12 education. Money should be allocated for that. B
46 Post contains links MoltenRock : Thomas Jefferson disagrees with you. In fact America led the world into having public education systems for virtually every child. So it isn't the in
47 Superfly : I agree however there is a discipline issue with many students that turn away good teachers. Why should a geometry or chemistry teacher be forced to
48 L410Turbolet : Bias against extremes? Perhaps. The Swedish uber-PC kindergarten that tries to indoctrinate children with bizarre ideas of "gender neutral" society a
49 fr8mech : I know a couple of folks who homeschool and they socialize their children through a variety of activities with like minded families and 'traditionall
50 Post contains images Superfly : RE: Reply #47 Gosh I need to go back to school. Learning a new language is compromising my own English. I meant to type; "Then the teacher is out of w
51 Post contains images ALTF4 : I meant for this thread to be about the corruption in (some!) public schools, but I see I hit a nerve with some people on homeschooling. Interesting.
52 seb146 : That can afford it. Some parents really want to send their children to charter or private school but have to work three minimum wage jobs just to kee
53 MarSciGuy : Just as a matter of note - almost no science is strictly settled... Plate tectonics for example is still very much only a theory, though there are re
54 windy95 : No...Send my child to a private school and will continue to through High School.
55 NorthstarBoy : Sorry, this kind of thing has nothing to do with advancing one's career. IMO, This has to do with Nanny State trying to narrow the achievement gap be
56 fr8mech : You're right, but plate tectonics is the political footbal that the theory of global warming or man-made climate change is. My point is that when the
57 BMI727 : I disagree. You see, education is the legitimate form of welfare. If you choose to use it and take advantage of the opportunities given, anyone can s
58 san747 : Here's my question: if your child was taught all the sides of various issues and explained that the government's "agenda" is a viewpoint and not gosp
59 fr8mech : Of course I would accept her or him. I'm not producing clones. I'm trying to raise thinking members of society. It would make for interesting discuss
60 san747 : Well OK, that's fair, your heart is in the right place. Too many times I see people (and several posters to this thread) wanting their specific viewp
61 pwm2txlhopper : Not just to indoctrinate them with that, but to indoctrinate them with all things progressive/liberal. Public school is like liberal/progressive prep
62 Post contains links and images Superfly : That is very scary and doesn't bold well for the future. Last year, my friend's son turned 16 and I had asked him if he was excited about getting his
63 MoltenRock : BFD. That's what happens when 5%, 10%, and even 15% of your student body / populace / citizens are ____________ (gay, Muslim, black, Asian, blind, wh
64 Superfly : Actually there was no "outrage" over the news story I brought up. Just a small example as to why some people may not feel comfortable with public edu
65 DeltaMD90 : What are you talking about? I've been out of HS for about 3 years, and what you say can't be further from the truth. I mean there are some idiots who
66 Superfly : Where did you go to school?
67 DeltaMD90 : In Fayette County, GA. College at NGCSU. Not many times did I meet people as dumb as some posters have suggested. I agree my generation is very entitl
68 Superfly : Upper-middle class to well off area of Atlanta metro. You probably have some of the best public schools in the area with better quality of teachers.
69 DeltaMD90 : Never said there wasn't a problem. I think education is what is most crucial to success in life. Look more at the post I was replying to, I think it
70 Superfly : Well of course. They made it in to college. Try talking to their classmates that didn't graduate or didn't go to college. Some public schools have an
71 DeltaMD90 : True, but once again, I fail to see how the supposed liberal mindset causes this (or that it even exists in schools.) As far as how smart kids are, I
72 Post contains images OzarkD9S : If I was dumb enough to have a child I might be dumb enough to let the gov educate them.
73 Post contains images Superfly : At the moment, you're entrenched in a lot of it and can't really see it at the moment. Over time you'll realize it. LOL!
74 DeltaMD90 : Examples? The only true "liberal" influence I've seen was in sociology class, but that mostly just taught me that most poor people aren't lazy idiots
75 MarSciGuy : My point was that they are both THEORIES... as a science teacher you need to teach science as science, and leave the political opinions out - that me
76 Post contains images Superfly : Then you wont be exposed to it there. Your school is more of an exeption than the rule. Best of luck at your school and lock up those crooks after yo
77 DeltaMD90 : Dodged a bullet then! lol. I'm kinda interested in that whole topic, gonna start a thread on the matter...
78 san747 : Interesting, I live in San Jacinto, which is in the Hemet Valley. That kid's only folly in his case is that it will be a long time before there's a r
79 Post contains images MarSciGuy : I'm going to have to agree to disagree on that one... I'd prefer to avoid world war 3
80 Superfly : His reasons were for environmental reasons. Well if schools are no longer using many of their athletic facilities, whose fault is that? But now it ha
81 san747 : Good for him. If he's decided he feels that cars pollute and are dangerous, that's his prerogative. That's a good question, but I highly doubt it's "
82 Superfly : Therefore I didn't challenge him. I just know that back in my day (not that long ago), 16 year olds couldn't wait to get their driver's license. Espe
83 Post contains images san747 : Hey, I'm not saying I agree with the kid. Pollution or not, he is gonna have a hard time living in SoCal with a car! I definitely wanted to drive whe
84 Post contains images Superfly : Haha! I didn't get in to a discussion with him about it. I didn't feel it was my place. My friend's concerns about his son's schools mirrors what AGM
85 Braniff747SP : Well, how are the public schools in Norway? I'm sure they are better than our American schools....
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