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Boehner Calls Off Debt Talks  
User currently offlineCadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1672 posts, RR: 4
Posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5072 times:

Breaking on CNN's site now. Link to follow when it becomes available.

Link not from CNN, but still a reputable source: http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/201...ween-obama-boehner-break-down.html

[Edited 2011-07-22 15:23:47]

359 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 3014 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5050 times:

Well, I'm sure that will be helpful to all concerned, like the entire world !   

Lets hope he changes his mind, goes back into constructive talks, and a solution is found, quickly.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5033 times:

I would love to see the deal he laid out where he said it was "extremely fair" before I comment. Either Boehner is being unreasonable or he is sick of the games being played by the president. Without this info we can't tell.

User currently offlinejpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5027 times:

The Tea Party has taken the country hostage.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 3):
The Tea Party has taken the country hostage.

Bull, rumors are flying all over. Especially that after meeting with some far left Dems last night and having them lambast him he walked back much on the deal he and Boehner were working on. Boehner is going to be on the factor tonight so hopefully we will get some specifics.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13202 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

I wish Pres. Obama had the skills and leverage that LBJ had to get critical votes including as to the creation of Medicaid back in 1960's. I would want Obama to tell all the obstinate Republicans that fine, you want less government, then I am shutting down military bases, suspending government contracts, hold back payments to contractors in your districts and states until you give in

Bonier and the Tea Party are acting like the Mafia, extorting the country for their own very selfish motives, figuring that Obama and the Democrats will totally capitulate to their austerity and no tax plan to avoid default. I hope every Republican and captivating Democrat will be thrown out of office in the next elections if they go there.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4989 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
Bonier and the Tea Party are acting like the Mafia, extorting the country for their own very selfish motives, figuring that Obama and the Democrats will totally capitulate to their austerity and no tax plan to avoid default. I hope every Republican and captivating Democrat will be thrown out of office in the next elections if they go there.

What the GOP is asking is far from austerity. It's just some common sense. Judging by the fact that Grover opened the door to letting the tax rate go back to pre Bush is leading me to believe that Obama caved into the Barbara Boxers and Bernie Sanders last night. Mostly along the lines of not touching the big entitlements. I hope Boehner is forthcoming on FOX later.


User currently offlinejpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4985 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 4):

Bull, rumors are flying all over. Especially that after meeting with some far left Dems last night and having them lambast him he walked back much on the deal he and Boehner were working on. Boehner is going to be on the factor tonight so hopefully we will get some specifics.

Just look at the thuggish tactics being used by the tea party side threatening Republicans that were open to the 'gang of six' plan. Surely that stuff goes on with the far left and lots are pissed with Obama, but we all know the key here is the house and these freshman tea party morons who either won't vote for a ceiling increase period, or want every one of their demands for it. It seems to be they are acting worse with 1/3 of the gov than the Democrats acted with 3/3 in 2010.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4985 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):

I would love to see the deal he laid out where he said it was "extremely fair" before I comment.

Here is one from CBS. Lots of other soured are similar.

Quote:
The deal on the table, as Mr. Obama laid it out, included more than $1 trillion in cuts to domestic and defense discretionary spending, as well as $650 billion in cuts to entitlement programs - Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. He said he asked for approximately $1.2 trillion in revenue increases that he said would have come from eliminating loopholes and deductionsnot hiking tax rates.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20082266-503544.html

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 2):
Either Boehner is being unreasonable or he is sick of the games being played by the president.

Or maybe the Tea Party told him what he could and what he could not do. This sounds more like Cantor than Boehner.

But one really queer situation was just ann ounces on CNN - Boehner told the media that the talks were off BEFORE he told the President. That is simply plain stupid.

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 3):
The Tea Party has taken the country hostage.

I don't think they are at that point yet, but they are certainly making their public face very visible. I don't really know if this is a bad or good thing, but I have read headlines where the TP might be breaking up the GOP. That might be a good thing if it leaves the hard right out there and allows moderate to moderate right to be safe in their traditional party,


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4969 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8):
Here is one from CBS. Lots of other soured are similar.

I don't think that is the deal that forced Boehner to bail. It''s a winner for the GOP. Something had to have happened. Boehner will speak in about 10 mins. Hope he gives us some info.


User currently offlinejpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4967 times:

The sad part is the Tea Party could be a real positive and beneficial influence here. But let's face it, when you have big flips in Congress like we've just had, you end up with wing-nuts and morons. That's the bottom line. So many of these people are not who they should be- you'd think they'd be successful business owners, but no, it's more like the Chrstine O'Donnell type whose life has represented none of the virtues they supposedly represent. It's more arrogant blow hards with no track record and a rebranded religious right who listen to whatever these tea party leaders say than thoughtful and reasonable individuals.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26170 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4961 times:

There is nothing to negotiate as long as Dems insist on raising taxes simply to allow the spending to flow.

We don't have a taxing problem in this country, we have a spending one.

Cut, cut, cut is the viable answer, not tax, tax, tax.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 5):
Bonier and the Tea Party are acting like the Mafia, extorting the country for their own very selfish motives

The Dems are much of a Mafia in the hands of unions and parties that expect their non-ending social patronage.
The gravy train has to stop, and I'm certainly happy that there are enough Americans that are fed up enough to have delivered the Tea Party to Washington.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinesleekjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2049 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

Obama has yet to claim ownership of the mess he created. I applaud Boehner for walkiing out every time Obama brings up tax hikes. With the incredible number of folks unemployed and with millions of others just hanging on, the last thing we need is more taxes. And, Obama rejects cut, cap, and balance...I guess because he doesn't want anything to get in the way of his spending fetish.

Good luck getting re-elected, Mr. Obama.



II Cor. 4:17-18
User currently offlinejpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):

The gravy train has to stop, and I'm certainly happy that there are enough Americans that are fed up enough to have delivered the Tea Party to Washington.

Too bad they came to beat their own chest instead of accomplishing anything.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5617 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4950 times:

Obama and the Democrat party are acting like the Mafia, extorting the country for their own very selfish motives, figuring that Boehner and the Republicans will totally capitulate to their frenzied spending and no deficit-reduction plan to avoid default. I hope every Democrat and capitulating Republican will be thrown out of office in the next elections if they go there.


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4948 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
Cut, cut, cut is the viable answer, not tax, tax, tax.

True but you can get rid of some or most of the loopholes. We do need some revenue coming in as well as cuts.

Remember the Dems had total control for over two years and did nothing. So their agenda is clear.

Boehner saying the goal posts were moved and hinted cuts to Medicare and SS were not what has been leaked. Still being cryptic maybe he will tell Ingraham more.

[Edited 2011-07-22 16:19:40]

User currently offlinejpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4940 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):

True but you can get rid of some or most of the loopholes. We do need some revenue coming in as well as cuts.

Absolutely, closing loopholes is a great idea.

Quoting SCCutler (Reply 14):
Obama and the Democrat party are acting like the Mafia, extorting the country for their own very selfish motives, figuring that Boehner and the Republicans will totally capitulate to their frenzied spending and no deficit-reduction plan to avoid default. I hope every Democrat and capitulating Republican will be thrown out of office in the next elections if they go there.

You have got to be joking. How far from reality can you possibly be removed.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2843 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4932 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
There is nothing to negotiate as long as Dems insist on raising taxes simply to allow the spending to flow.

We don't have a taxing problem in this country, we have a spending one.

Cut, cut, cut is the viable answer, not tax, tax, tax.

When we borrow .40 on every dollar we spend you'd think the light bulb would have gone on a long time ago, instead it got to a point where we have to say no more. I find it pretty funny when I hear the government bashing the banks for lending money to people who couldn't pay their mortgages then the same politicians spend more than the government takes in. They should be required to fund the government the same way we run our household budgets...don't spend more than you have.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineSCCutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5617 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4913 times:

Quoting jpetekYXMD80 (Reply 16):

You have got to be joking. How far from reality can you possibly be removed.

Look up in the thread (reply 5) - making a point.

As long as we operate in insults and absolutes, progress is improbable.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21877 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4892 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
There is nothing to negotiate as long as Dems insist on raising taxes simply to allow the spending to flow.

You do realize that the plan all along has been to pair the revenue increases with more spending cuts, right?

Quoting sleekjet (Reply 12):
And, Obama rejects cut, cap, and balance...I guess because he doesn't want anything to get in the way of his spending fetish.

Or maybe because it's an incredibly ideologically-driven and foolish piece of legislation. We've got two weeks left to get a deal done - you don't just decide to amend the Constitution in two weeks. That's just idiocy, and I expect better from a group of people who claim to hold the Constitution in the highest regard than to wait until the last minute to start throwing amendments around.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4877 times:

Is there anybody who believes the GOP will actually let the US default? Because if they do, oblivious of the ramifications that would have, their party must seriously be banned.

I think it's all tactics. Nobody can be that stupid. They want to make Obama look bad and most of all, they want Americans to suffer. Whenever people are in plight, they are likely to run over to the extremes. Happened with Hitler, happened recently in French elections, happens all over the world.

So the party is either completely oblivious of what they are doing, or they are deliberately sabotaging America in hopes of getting re-elected.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4874 times:

Quoting something (Reply 20):
So the party is either completely oblivious of what they are doing, or they are deliberately sabotaging America in hopes of getting re-elected.

This makes no sense, they won a huge victory last election by standing by their principals and they are doing that here. Obama backed off a number of how much revenue. Seems Boehner was ready to make that deal before Boxer and Feinstein got to Obama. He is too weak to lead us. He has been Pelosi's lackey and still is.


User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6678 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4854 times:
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Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 15):
True but you can get rid of some or most of the loopholes. We do need some revenue coming in as well as cuts.

Closing loopholes ARE effective tax increase. You communist!

The GOP only interest is to pave the road for its Candidatr in 2012.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4836 times:

This is absolutely insane. This people have more loyalty to their parties than they do to their own country!

This problem cannot be solved with ideology. We have a massive revenue problem. End the Bush era tax cuts NOW!

And yes, cut some spending.

Doing either by themselves is the road to national ruin.

I hope the Tea Party and the Radical Left collapse, because if they don't then we are truly doomed.

  B4e-Forever New Frontiers  


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4833 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 22):
Closing loopholes ARE effective tax increase. You communist!

They aren't really. Grover Norquist said so.   

Quoting mt99 (Reply 22):
The GOP only interest is to pave the road for its Candidatr in 2012

They don't need to, they won on this premise already.


25 something : It's one thing to say Obama is weak. I am inclinded to agree, but I don't know what forces are pulling him from side to side behind the scenes. He has
26 mt99 : So we can call you Grover now? So you agree with anything he says now? Right - so they need to keep pushing to the finish line. The main and only goa
27 Post contains images nwaesc : Lemme guess: You paid cash for your house, your car, your tuition, and have never used a credit card for a significant purchase. It's not whether or
28 something : Debt is legitimate to accumulate during two phases of the economic cycle and has to be paid off during the other two again. In other situations, mone
29 NIKV69 : I am a Forbes flat tax guy. Grover did give all those House GOP members an out though so it's apparent Obama mmoved the goal posts.
30 dreadnought : The GOP has been offering multiple concrete budgets and plans and proposals, one after another, for the past 6 months, starting with the Ryan Plan. O
31 mt99 : An "out"? Are you serious? That is proof of what this is all about! Its all about smoke and mirrors, all about pandering to the Tea Party! If this is
32 Mir : I can't see how Boehner thinks he can do better in the Senate than he can with Obama when several Democrats in the Senate have been critical of Obama
33 dreadnought : Yes, they saw it coming - it was a central issue in the 2010 mid-term elections. It is the Democrats who refuse to live up to their responsibilities.
34 jpetekYXMD80 : That seems like a pretty solid analysis to me. Seems like they know they can put Obama between a rock and a hard place, and i'm sure they foam at the
35 NIKV69 : No saying you want a 800 Billion in revenue then increasing it 50% is.[Edited 2011-07-22 17:51:59]
36 Post contains images OA412 : Right, but no one will touch programs where cuts need to be made. The Democrats are blaming the Republicans, and the Republicans are blaming the Demo
37 something : I want to be honest with you, dreadnought. I dislike to Republicans out of principle. NO single country in the history of mankind has ever propsered
38 NIKV69 : What does that have to do with this? A hell of a lot more than the Dems. He can't. He knows if he caves to Pelosi he loses huge in 2012 which at this
39 mt99 : He is right! Look it up in Conservapedia if you are not convinced!
40 NIKV69 : No need to just check the 2010 election results.
41 Mir : The Republicans don't really have much to lose by dragging the process out. They get to look like they're fighting the good fight in the eyes of thei
42 Post contains images OA412 : Oh I'm sorry. I forgot that the GOP is perfect, and can do no wrong. Keep telling yourselves that. So far they have tried to cut funding to Planned P
43 Post contains images einsteinboricua : Oh boy. Not gonna add my 2 cents, but let's debate a bit: If the Bush tax cuts had expired, I'd agree with you. But when income is reduced while keepi
44 Ken777 : Those days are now gone for a while. In those days there was a lot of strong personalities who could actually work together when the nation's well be
45 something : And most pervetedly, it will be exactly those Americans that will vote for them! Elections mean nothing. They aren't in any way reflective of what ''
46 Post contains images dreadnought : I appreciate the civilized manner in which you express your disagreement, and I will reciprocate by trying to explain a few things which you appear t
47 dxing : Of course this was after he agreed to 800 billion. The extra 400 billion would have come from taxing the very people that create the jobs to begin wi
48 Mir : They've had a year plus to bring it to the floor, and even if you only include the time when the debt limit was under discussion they've still had se
49 Post contains images Boeing4ever : If you raise taxes without cutting spending, you will burden families that are already struggling and only push off the problem. Conversely... If you
50 Post contains images something : Grown ups don't yell at each other, but present their opinions and either come to agreement or part throwing eggs at the opponent's car. But there's
51 something : Greece is a socialist paradise that has been financially irresponsible for the past 50 years and has less debt per capita than the USA. They want to
52 Post contains images NIKV69 : My favorite is how Romney is leading Obama in the general. Like Steve Wynn said when he took Obama to task. Eveyone is sitting on their hands until O
53 dxing : A year? They did not take control of the House until this past January. It has been part and parcel of the tea party movement for over a year. The GO
54 StarAC17 : Those rich people are creating jobs, those jobs are being created in India and China where they pay people low wages that increase their bottom lines
55 Mir : You are correct - I shouldn't try to do math this late at night. I still maintain, though, that the debate over the debt ceiling has gone on for a wh
56 StarAC17 : I disagree with those democrats as everything needs to be on the table here although the social security fund should not be touched to pay for anythi
57 something : Why hurt? When I said ''cutting the defense budget isn't easy'' I meant that you can't just downsize the army like that. The unemployment rate would
58 einsteinboricua : View it as you want, I saw the midterm elections more as a way to punish Democrats than wanting small government. It's still a victory for the GOP no
59 Mir : This is true. But what is the alternative? You can offset some of the cuts with revenue increases, but do too much of that and you create problems fo
60 san747 : He's the GOP's only chance in 2012. Let's see if he survives the primaries, especially in Iowa where I'm sure they just LOVE his religious background
61 seb146 : Just because the right decided it was a good idea to keep spending us into oblivion does not mean they will own up to it. They keep blasting Obama fo
62 MAH4546 : I'm glad to see Boehner take a stand. I don't care if the debt ceiling is raised, but taxes need to stay flat or be lowered. And the U.S. is in no dan
63 jpetekYXMD80 : Bachmann locks in Minnesota. That is downright laughable. No one has been better exposed to what a nut job she is. Everyone knows her prospects at any
64 Post contains images Baroque : Presumably you refer to "when you have them by the balls their hearts and minds are sure to follow"? As TheCommodore wrote, please do something sensi
65 StarAC17 : Just because he was governor of Massachusetts donesn't mean that the state is going to support him in a federal election and that especially applies
66 NIKV69 : The GOP already said they would cut defense. This is not an issue. The fact is Obama wanted 50 % more tax revenue after they were getting close to a
67 FlyPNS1 : With Cantor and Boehner in charge, there won't be cuts to defense. As we speak, Cantor is lobbying for INCREASES in defense spending. Except that pop
68 NIKV69 : More scare propaganda. The GOP wants a secure border. Not to deport the millions already here. Besides out of the 4 states it makes a difference. CA,
69 StarAC17 : I agree with you but I also am going to echo what Ken777 says and said struggling farm doesn't have the lobbying power to get subsidies that they nee
70 Post contains links and images something : Isn't it great politics when political accomplishments mean less than your religious denomination? Most moderates are simply frustrated and have give
71 StarAC17 : You have just illustrated two major sources of existing socialism in the US economy that need to be resolved because its a pretty unsustainable syste
72 par13del : Why, successive administrations and Congress have passed tax laws and ignored loop holes which allowed / made it easier for big companies to ditch lo
73 something : The farming issue is unsolveable. It's one of these areas where the free market doesn't work. If farmer A can't produce under a certain price, farmer
74 Post contains links dxing : We need to be more infuriated, as Trump has also mentioned more than once, at the government negotiators that consistently negotiate deals with forei
75 FlyPNS1 : It will be difficult, but without significant cuts to DoD (and DHS), it will be nearly impossible to reach a balance budget...short of gutting SS/Med
76 something : How many people would that put out of a job? It's not a rhetorical question but I can't find any reliable and accurate figures. And what would happen
77 dxing : By and large not our problem as it relates to foreign workers. The armed forces will be drawing down over the next few years as troops are no longer
78 PPVRA : Free markets work everywhere. If somethng isn't working, it's because governments are interfering somewhere. Central planning in agriculture leads to
79 Mir : Sorry, but no. The Republicans spent whenever and wherever they wanted to during the Bush presidency. They don't get to turn around now and say that
80 PPVRA : People would use the money not spent on maintaining bases elsewhere, which means these other places that benefit from this extra money will experienc
81 something : LOL what a substantiated statement. The American agriculture isn't government controlled. It subsidizes farmers who otherwise couldn't grow certain c
82 Post contains links and images Baroque : Well we have a fix for that according to Tony Abbott. Since he pinches most of his rubbish from the States, I am sure they would soon borrow this one
83 Post contains links PPVRA : It would be if you knew your history. Here's a good place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor Profitable domestic agriculture in the US
84 PPVRA : This is just funny. If there is no money elsewhere, where did the army get the money to pay it's soldiers? What you wrote is completely illogical. If
85 something : Damn. This takes the price for the most arrogant imperialistic statement I have heard in a while. What you are saying is ''farm work isn't worth anyt
86 something : Dude, what the hell? Are you even serious? America has over 14 trillion US dollars in debt to repay. THAT is where your money is going. Not restauran
87 Post contains images Ken777 : Romney? Bachman can out perform him any day of the week - and look at how poor a potential he has. Not a chance it could have a real, positive influe
88 dxing : In the past legislation has always had tax increase that take effect immediately and spending cuts to be determined at a future date. We start paying
89 Post contains images Kngkyle : Why are people so vehemently against a modest tax increase coupled with responsible spending cuts? It's not like the tax rates are high... the income
90 PPVRA : LOL It doesn't matter is Jonh Doe works for $1 a day on this side of the fence or the other. That's all I said. That's what you don't see. This stuff
91 Post contains links NIKV69 : Huh? Outperform him how? He has lead every poll against Obama in the general. Once she gets out of Iowa she is done. So I assume you have abandoned t
92 san747 : I don't know if you recall by how large a margin Obama won... 365 electoral votes to 173. It's going to take more than a few swing states like Ohio a
93 PPVRA : They've been in a Civil War since 1991. And for the record, the economic policies espoused by Obama are based on the idea that war is good for the ec
94 LTBEWR : Already the lack of dealing with the debt limit extension with spending cuts and tax increases 'grand plan' is having an affect on the USA and the wor
95 NIKV69 : Great first step in fact Chuck Todd posed this very question to head of the DNC and congress member Wassmerman-Schultz and she refused to answer inst
96 Post contains links MAH4546 : All it will take is Flordia, Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina, Indiana and one more state of at least four electoral votes. And that is assuming that t
97 Post contains images StarAC17 : Here's the truth about this you could eliminate all taxes on corperations and they would still save money sending jobs off shore to China because the
98 BMI727 : No, we need to be more competitive. They'd better not have to pay FICA while they have such a job then. Social Security is a Ponzi scheme that needs
99 Post contains links NIKV69 : Amen to that! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Muz1OcEzJOs
100 StarAC17 : Where are the rich and educated going to go where they get the same personal and economic freedoms that the US provides. I would love to know your an
101 Mir : Then we're on the same page with that. -Mir
102 BMI727 : Depending on who ends up getting elected and passing legislation in the next few years to decades, possibly almost anywhere. Which is why you shouldn
103 MAH4546 : Correct, my error. And, well, voting democrat has already killed Illinois - the most anti-business state in the nation. Things will keep getting wors
104 StarAC17 : As a lot of American's should say to you don't let the door hit you on the way out, peole still want to enter the US enough that they are willing to
105 BMI727 : They get the money when they arrive since they get to sponge off the system. Welfare and retirement benefits. If you want money, you earn it. Educati
106 par13del : Both sides are on equal footing when it comes to spending, both have overspent, the Republicans under Bush's, the Democrats under Clinton and Obama,
107 seb146 : It is that line of thinking that fuels conservative talk radio and "news" sources. How? I have seen fewer and fewer workers haging out at Home Depot
108 Post contains images StarAC17 : We agree there, I have little sympathy to people that waste money. However, outside of social security which needs to be modified and not eliminated
109 BMI727 : You should save money when you work. That's how you retire. The answer to that question is competition not regulation. You don't see this problem in
110 StarAC17 : Germany is an export driven economy that still makes stuff that people want. The US doesn't make much stuff anymore and even the hi tech things that
111 Post contains links PPVRA : It would be nice to get a more substantial argument than "greed will take over". Even small economic liberalizations can have significant impacts, es
112 BMI727 : So then why all of the bullshit about how America must legislate outsourcing away? Why not just compete and try and do things better? The complacency
113 StarAC17 : History tells us this, when you don't watch people with laws and regulations they tend to get greedy. Its human nature to do this and its not just th
114 MAH4546 : That's hysterical. The United States is one of the cheapest first world nations in the world to employ somebody in, if not the cheapest. There is a r
115 PPVRA : Recent financial crisis is a result of Central Banking and its policy of artificially propping up markets to control economic ups and downs. Not sure
116 StarAC17 : Its the truth, although you might get away with paying the lowest salary to a US employee they are not necessarily the cheapest place to employ someo
117 MAH4546 : Source? Toyota's last, and only, plant built in Canada was in 1988. Its newest plant, which will build the Corolla, opens this fall in Mississippi. O
118 BMI727 : Obviously not enough more productivity to justify the extra cost. So American workers should become better, like Germans, or cheaper, like Chinese.
119 Post contains links StarAC17 : Gladly, its in Woodstock, Ontario and opened in 2008 it makes the RAV4 there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motor_Manufacturing_Canada Toyota an
120 BMI727 : Fine by me. Use some of the money from the welfare we shouldn't pay anyone anymore if you're too much of a dumbass to attend or pay attention in scho
121 MAH4546 : My mistake, the Woodstock plant slipped my mind. You have yet to show me how it was chosen because of health insurance reasons. No one is arguing wit
122 something : The problem these free market advocates don't see is that responsibility is not a very competitive behavior. Responsibility towards workers, towards
123 Aaron747 : Not sure what you're talking about exactly. In Japan, people stay at the office until the boss leaves whether they have work to do or not...productiv
124 Post contains images Baroque : There you go with complex concepts like equations. You will have to stick to simpler slogans. And you know while that is meant as a joke, the trouble
125 BMI727 : Which is why we have reasonable laws to keep people from engaging in things like insider trading or working employees to death in unsafe conditions.
126 seb146 : That's easy for CEOs to do, but for us in the real world who's only choice is to get a job that barely covers our monthly expenses, not so. Here is w
127 Post contains images dxing : I'm sorry but when I was younger I held two and some times 3 jobs to make sure my family got by and I still managed to put a few dollars away every w
128 something : I'll get at the other quotes later, but first.. would you mind sharing the phone number of the fairy that turns $48k into $418k? Or who exactly is in
129 BMI727 : You get interest which covers inflation, assuming that one invests it wisely. Of course, if you don't do that, you're in trouble.
130 dxing : No phone number, just saving discipline. That and compound interest as well as managing your money. I've been up and down in my savings over my 30 ye
131 BMI727 : Bangledesh is on the list of the "Next Eleven" economies to grow after the BRIC, so maybe that isn't the worst thing.
132 Dreadnought : That is something that statists have never been able to accept. The value of a thing - a stock, a bushel of wheat, an hour of labor or whatever - is
133 Post contains links PPVRA : More non-sense from someone who doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. Yeah. . . the more socialist, the more statist (whether of the right-wi
134 windy95 : If they just ignore them then yes they under assault. Social Security and healthcare except in extreme cases which should be handled at the state lev
135 Post contains images Ken777 : Like the deals that ended up in Chapter 11? At least we know that he will get along well with the GOP & TP- they don't seemed bothered with bankr
136 seb146 : But families are not able to take care of anyone else. Not even their own household because they can not afford it. I know you CEOs don't get it, but
137 Dreadnought : Have you checked lately to see where Apple products are manufactured? Their design and marketing is American, but all their production is in Asia. Ot
138 something : windy95, I really appreciate your way of arguing. Obviously, there seems to be not much we agree on but at least you seem to be interested in making a
139 Dreadnought : I don't think you will find anyone that buys into the entire GOP platform lock stock and barrel. For instance I am pro-choice, and I have very little
140 something : And what do you do if you were not as fortunate, and were molested as a child? There are statistics that very clearly indicate that you will remain w
141 par13del : Looking in I would have to say that of all the major developed nations of the world the USA is the only one so far who has elected a person from a mi
142 Post contains links NIKV69 : Nobody is paying a dollar an hour with no safety that was 40 years ago. Teachers and toll collectors are doing fine. It's thje unions that just keep
143 windy95 : I am not a CEO. There are very few CEO's out there. Stop your class rhetoric. People have to make choices, big screen TV and a trip to Disney or take
144 Dreadnought : Perfect case in point. You have 3 forms of social "fairness": 1) Fairness of outcomes, 2) Fairness of birth, and 3) Fairness of means. Marxists belie
145 FlyPNS1 : You should be cheering this fact. It means less government spending and outsourcing the work to someone cheaper. This is a hallmark of conservative t
146 Ken777 : Actually they are beholden to follow all the laws, rules and regulations. And a CEO in the US can be held criminally liable for illegal acts he's com
147 BMI727 : We can't afford the welfare state others are in favor of either. That's how this mess got started. Telling everyone they are winners and trying to le
148 Post contains links mt99 : Right it doesn't. So why do you assume what you give Caesar is little? If you read the passage, He asks whose face image was in the face of the coin.
149 something : It's 3am here, so I am sorry I can't give you the answer this question deserves, but in short: I want them to be taxed so that other people can maxim
150 BMI727 : Why do you assume what you give Caesar is big? There is already plenty of resources for that, mostly scholarships. Take some of the cuts we should ma
151 Dreadnought : Tell you what, if you can convince the teachers to work for free and for enough buildings to be donated, I'll back you all the way!
152 mt99 : Beacause:
153 par13del : Sounds as if you want to take away peoples right to choose how they spend their money, if folks do not like 50 cents act they won't pay for it and he
154 Post contains images windy95 : Remember bill gates was lucky...Most successful people in the history of this country are. And they do not want to be taxed so they can maximize thei
155 SCCutler : Has anyone here read Vonnegut's "Welcome to the Monkey House"? It appears that the simple answer is for the Smart People in the federal government to
156 Post contains images StarAC17 : Excellent point and that did slip my mind, the US used to be like that but I'll steal from Ken777 and say the MBA's are the reason that loyalty doesn
157 Kngkyle : The more all of these partisan battles drag on the more I think we should return more powers to the states instead of the federal government. Its beco
158 something : I am not saying increase public spending. I am saying there are certain sectors that should be paid for by the state. And a recording studio is not a
159 dxing : So is Warren Buffet. The problem is that this administration lumps the Gates and Buffets in with the 250K earner when it comes to rates. As I have sa
160 something : I agree in principle. I never made any proposals as to how exactly taxes should be staggered. I'm a strategist, not a calculator-nerd with a cat. lol
161 mt99 : So you are OK with a higher tax for the ultra rich? That can only meant one thing: You hate the ultra rich. You are creating class warfare against th
162 Dreadnought : The problem is that we outsourced the manned space program AND they increased NASA's budget. Nobody knows exactly why - I guess to have more bureacra
163 mt99 : And the people over $10M.. do keep it under the mattress?
164 dxing : You are inferring (as usual) since I said no such thing. What I stated is the administrations hoped for policy of upping the rates of everyone from t
165 mt99 : Im sorry. You then meant that they should pay LOWER taxes? What is it then, greater taxes, lower taxes nor the same as a $250K earner. Only 3 choices
166 StarAC17 : I do not think that personal its just that 250K is the bottom of the top 2% of earners and I have never heard Obama or anyone say that this was rich
167 mt99 : I think that Dxing and Dreadnought would rather make $20K a year and pay 0% taxes, than make $10 Million and pay 40%. You got to give it to them. The
168 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Honestly, I think we're better off with Congress than we are with A.net. The partisan hot air in this thread and bleating from people with axes to gri
169 Post contains links dxing : I say what I have said all along. We need to cut spending i.e eliminate programs that are wasteful, duplicates, or no longer necessary, then we can a
170 mt99 : Again - what would you agree with: Higher or Lower? Easy question. You know Buffet personally don't you?.[Edited 2011-07-24 21:27:40]
171 Post contains links StarAC17 : Fair enough about the loopholes and hopefully that gets done. Rich is and has always been relative and 250K means that you happen to earn more than 9
172 dxing : The 250K would obviously be lower but again, the tax rates should only be set after the spending cuts are in place. We've tried it the other way arou
173 BMI727 : That's fine if you work for the government, but the last thing we need is more bureaucracy. Considering how rankings look, that might be a great idea
174 Ken777 : The mess we are facing right now got tarted because Bush made some really, really stupid calls. And had too big an Ego to correct himself. Polio is a
175 Mir : We're talking about someone who brings in 250k after all is said and done. If they're a business owner and they're grossing 250k but then having to p
176 deltaownsall : This would seem to be the case, wouldn't it. However, let's forget the right-wing nut jobs that haven't so much as flipped open an intro to economics
177 dxing : It'd be nice if the IRS always saw it that way.
178 Post contains images NIKV69 : Me too so let us stop giving money to NPR and planned parenthood and give it to them. Like in D.C.? When the gun ban went into the effect the crime r
179 windy95 : I was referring to the post below. If they want to pay more why do they not just five it then? Why do the need to be forced? Why does Buffett and Gat
180 mt99 : But you still want the $10M people to pay more taxes than the $250K. Class warfare i tell you! Are you going to provide concrete examples on why they
181 par13del : So could a WTO case be raised against Canada, think about it for a second, what other cost do business have to pay, how much more can be passed on to
182 Post contains images mt99 : What is this "prevent from aspiring crap"? Again, would rather make $20K a year and pay 0% taxes, than make $10 Million and pay 40%? Would the fear o
183 Baroque : Just glad the Americans I do business with are not like the lot that you are having these incredible arguments with! Good grief is all one can say.
184 NIKV69 : The problem is you need a much higher tax rate to do the things the Dems want. If you put a piece of paper in front of Pelosi and Schumer and it said
185 mt99 : So what? the tax rate is not the issue in this example. The issue is about how people would just give up on $10M a year because of high tax rate, as
186 StarAC17 : You said what I was going to, thanks for saving me the time. I by no means support taxing at this rate, I was making the point that if you increased
187 Post contains images dxing : Since progressive rates have been the norm here since the early part of the 20th century and how we are taxed, i.e. progressive, flat, or sales based
188 mt99 : Not really, but it shows that you are not above anyone else when making shaky claims. W You just agreed to a higher tax bracket to high earners. That
189 seb146 : No one is placing any restrictions on anyone aspiring to own anything. The problem with this whole debate is one side says one thing, the other side
190 dxing : As I've been told a number of times by a number of members, "google is your friend". Because that's the tax system that we have. You'll notice that I
191 FlyPNS1 : Sounds like you are waging class warfare on the poor/middle class. Let me get this right, you want to increase taxes on the poor/middle class, plus c
192 dxing : I want everyone to pay something instead of only a few paying most everything and some paying nothing. Perhaps then those in the lower income bracket
193 NIKV69 : No that is a red herring you have thrown out. It makes absolutely no sense. It has nothing to do with the debt discussion. The Election of 2010 happe
194 Post contains links and images mt99 : I gaogled your claim and it the top hits where: www.consevapedia.com www.conspiracytheories.com As expected So you still want the richest to pay more
195 dxing : I missed this gem. Actually it was in 1983 and without reform the Greenspan Commission found that trust fund would be in trouble in the short and lon
196 par13del : Read the quote again, 70% of ones earnings will eventually eliminate ones wealth. Taxes are paid each year, so imagine how much an individual woul ha
197 dxing : Of course that all depends on what you asked. Again, the way rates are set is not up for debate, even by the President, the Speaker, or the Majority
198 par13del : However, that is exactly what the folks in Washington are doing, using taxes and spending to dance around the issue. The politicians have decided tha
199 FlyPNS1 : Everyone does pay something (assuming they have income). Even if you're poor, you still pay into SS/Medicare. That's nothing more than a soundbite fr
200 Post contains links NIKV69 : Then where is the money coming from? They are successful and what they get is their business. Not ours. You want the loopholes gone fine. Let pay em
201 seb146 : So one international casino mogul says we are all happy? Where is my high paying job since he has tons of profit? It sounds like he can single handed
202 Ken777 : Look for an intelligent balance. Would a 4% increase in taxes on income over $250K be more damaging that a fairly long list of deductions & looph
203 Post contains links FlyPNS1 : Oh really? http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/su...&scp=4&sq=david%20leonhardt&st=cse "The Federal Reserve Bank of New York recently publi
204 dxing : FICA taxes, although they go to the general fund, don't pay down the debt, income taxes do and 50% of the earners don't pay any.
205 FlyPNS1 : So your solution is to tax all these people, thereby further crimping people's ability to spend and/or save, causing millions of layoffs, reducing go
206 Post contains links windy95 : Congress Warned of Credit 'Downgrade' if War Savings Counted as Deficit Reduction http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...ings-counted-as-deficit-reduc
207 Post contains links NIKV69 : Sure listen to the federal government and ignore someone like Steve Wynn. It is why Obama is failing so badly. Actually Wynn's good fortune is more o
208 einsteinboricua : This doesn't happen overnight you know. If the GOP knew that there would need to be some fiscal responsibility, why didn't they propose this back whe
209 par13del : To be fair to the law makers, the bill is not symbolic, whether we agree with it or not. It contains agreements to raise the debt ceiling by the 2nd
210 FlyPNS1 : I'm not listening to the federal government. I'm looking at the cold, hard data. You should try it sometime instead of listening to the soundbite of
211 windy95 : When it comes to lowering or removing the debt the people should accept no compromise. It is a long history of compromises that have gotten us into t
212 Post contains images Kngkyle : The notion that the wealthy are the true job creators in an economy is ridiculous. The vast majority of companies, especially larger ones, make their
213 NIKV69 : You are, you are taking the feds take on stats and not listening to one of the biggest entrepreneur and people who build businesses and hire people.
214 Ken777 : So we should focus or attention on a guy making money off of gamblers? Does his position rate higher or lower than owners of legal brothels? Unfortun
215 something : Well, I for my part have given up. If decades of economical studies, empirical evidence and historical experience can't change these people's minds, e
216 CargoLex : Oh, I hate to get drawn into this but... 1. The facts don't support the idea that demand is just fine and that we need more supply. Supply side solut
217 Post contains images par13del : Naw, republicans would look at all that central power the governments have and flee elsewhere for asylum, would have no clue what to do with all that
218 NIKV69 : You know Steve Wynn is a Democrat right?
219 Post contains images Mir : That probably reflects the idea that with less available money, those who get taxed more will spend less, which hurts the businesses that they'd be b
220 Post contains images windy95 : Nice save with the edit...This i can agree with you on. All you have done in your threads is let us know your opinion and then continue to toss out i
221 par13del : Guess that answers the question the man on the street has been asking concerning his bail out of the banks and Wall St. companies, somehow they were
222 FlyPNS1 : It has everything to do why businesses aren't hiring. Demand for the product simply isn't there because people are tapped out. Conservatives are doin
223 CargoLex : Yes, but that makes no difference to me. You know who I used to really like, who'll maybe you'll remember, being a New Yorker? Larry Wachtel. He used
224 Post contains links NIKV69 : Then how does Sheldon Adelson who is a Republican do it? This makes absolutely no sense. How does Rep Barton do this? http://www.chron.com/disp/story
225 LTBEWR : President Obama is going to speak for about 15 minutes at about 9 pm tonight on his side of this issue, talking directly to the public. It is expected
226 NIKV69 : Of course, when your leadership is failing go back to the teleprompter. "Bush put us here, the stimulus saved us from the bread lines, it will take a
227 par13del : Ok, just watched POTUS speech, refreash my memory, he mentioned the first President Bush being one who compromised, is he talking about the famous spe
228 NIKV69 : That speech was a total joke. Blame Bush and give us nothing but fluff talking points. Fact remains Boehner gave him a great deal with 800B in revenue
229 mt99 : It was the Tea Party that killed that deal...
230 par13del : I thought that deal fell through when the White House requested additional revenues "which were affordable and reasonable" I believe those were the w
231 einsteinboricua : But if you enact the first part, what guarantee will you have that the second part will also be enacted? It's symbolic if you know right from the sta
232 PPVRA : Agreeing to raise the debt ceiling is already a compromise.
233 Ken777 : Bush I used that line when running for President. Unfortunately he ran into a budget situation where he felt morally obligated to sign off on a tax i
234 propilot83 : This is what I wrote to my local Congressmen "Dear Congressmen Dreir, I am an Afghan-American citizen of the Independent party, I've been paying real
235 NIKV69 : No they didn't. Pelosi and Feinstein got Obama in a room and ripped him a new one and he told Boehner the tax revenue had to be 400B more. Then Boehn
236 par13del : Welcome to the US form of government, the congress is elected every two years, it is not their job to kowtow to the Senate or ensure that their bills
237 EA CO AS : *sigh* You DO know that "the rich" pay the vast majority of all income taxes collected by the federal government, right?
238 Mir : Not really - everyone who is in their right mind knows it needs to be done. It's just a matter of how, and that's where the compromise is. -Mir
239 par13del : Since there are more Democrats and Independents combined versus Republicans I would say the American people punished Bush I for violating his promise
240 BMI727 : How dare they make money or live a comfortable life filled with things that they've bought! Needs to slim down a bit, don't you think? ...so certain
241 seb146 : So are Nancy Pelosi and Harry Ried and Warren Buffett, right? So what? If Wynn is making so much money, why can't he use his vast welth to employ us
242 MCOGVADCA : Ah, yes, EXACTLY what the American economy needs, more jobs in the gaming industry. Steve Wynn would be happy to build more casinos in America....as
243 okie : See you have twisted 180 degrees out of phase. I believe Wynn's comments were along the line that the industry has had to cut back employee's because
244 MCOGVADCA : Bingo. Las Vegas is in a secular downtrend due to a) less disposable income for middle-class America (and, thus, less money for gambling) b) decrease
245 seb146 : I also find it ironic that Boehner voted to raise the debt limit and voted for massive spending all those years before he was Speaker. Why is it such
246 Post contains images einsteinboricua : His TP delegation might vote to replace him as Speaker, perhaps? If not his TP delegation, his constituents back home might.
247 par13del : Looking for the silver lining in this dark cloud, at least someone is now paying more than lip service to the nations debt, unfortunately most politi
248 Post contains links mt99 : Its not looking good .... Big GOP Bloc in House Opposes Boehner's Plan The leader of a large group of House conservatives said Tuesday he was "confid
249 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : Borowing Baroque's image from the other thread... When did he vote for massive spending - when spending was at or below 20% GDP. It was bad enough ba
250 Mir : 10 years might be asking too much, but a year is no good either - we don't need this sort of fight again during election season. If you think it's ge
251 mt99 : You can also hope some republicans climb on board to. I think its interesting that Boehner can't deliver the votes. It speaks volumes.[Edited 2011-07
252 Dreadnought : No, we can't let them off the hook for that long. If I had it my way the extentions should be for no more than 3 months, with further extentions depe
253 Dreadnought : Who was it that said that a good compromise is when nobody is happy? If the centrist GOP and centrist Democrats can pass this thing together, Obama w
254 par13del : Budgets are supposed to be passed each year, yes there are long term programs and adjustments to ongoing programs, but a lot of money is raised and s
255 Ken777 : Trust him to be President or a politician? His sworn obligation was to the country, not a group of political extreme groups. Fortunately Bush I had a
256 NIKV69 : No it doesn't. The country voted for smaller government last election. Not divided like Obama said last night. They are doing their jobs. Reid is dil
257 einsteinboricua : In my book, if one part of the government is not from your party, it's a divided government and for all intents and purposes, dysfunctional, unless l
258 NIKV69 : You have two parties but the people that decide elections are not party votes they are independent votes that go either way and they said LESS govern
259 Post contains images Dreadnought : But ich bin ein nice guy! Ja, ja, I haf ze best interest if ze volk in mind! Nancy is a member of the loony left, so I wouldn't count on her for anyt
260 par13del : Think we will disagree on this one, as far as I know, the people voted Bush out of office, if he had manned up and did what the people wanted he woul
261 seb146 : No. What it says is the Democrats are being realistic and cuts alone will not work. It has been going on for years and look where it got us.
262 Dreadnought : Name 1 non-military cut that they have proposed that would have an impact within 12 months. What have you been smoking? We haven't cut crap in years.
263 Post contains images Ken777 : Just like it voted for health care reform in 2008? If you throw in a wide rage of immediate cuts like the TP wants you are basically increasing unemp
264 dxing : My solution is to make sure everyone has something in the game. Perhaps those in the lower brackets would decide that they'd like to get back to tax
265 Post contains links NIKV69 : They didn't vote for health care, if they did over half the country wouldn't want it repealed. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ..._events/healthc
266 BMI727 : We already have "corporate jet owners" which I hope is just a case of ignorance on the part of speechwriters.
267 Dreadnought : I'm sure it isn't. I'm curious how the tens of thousands of workers (many unionized) in the business jet construction industry, plus the many more te
268 einsteinboricua : Funny how you say that the 2008 elections were not for electing Democrats but rather to punish the GOP for the Bush years, yet I say that the 2010 mi
269 mt99 : Actually the Dems got "punished" by not going FAR enough on their proposed reforms.
270 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Wow, partisans are delusional.... Obama had a proposal to increase revenue and cut spending. The tea baggers went nuts over the tax cuts, and liberal
271 dxing : He did? Where can I read this proposal? I find it interesting that Senator Reid has a plan in the offing that consists of nothing but cuts, it was be
272 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Reid is capitulating to the tea bag brigade. Obama had a much better plan before Boehner walked out. B4e-Forever New Frontiers
273 dxing : Again, where can I go to read this plan? I think the Speaker had it dead on when he said that the President couldn't say "yes" to a good deal present
274 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Same place I'm sure you can read the tea baggers' plan. You know, that one that the CBO stopped before Boehner successfully rammed it through... B4e-
275 NIKV69 : All you need is a bunch of signatures. It's not very hard. Don't forget you have to still win elections it's not handed to you. Both Nevada and Maryl
276 mt99 : Silly buns, that the whole issue: They did not show up to vote! They punished the Dems by not voting. Are suggesting that the US electorate is easily
277 Post contains links dxing : If you are talking about cut, cap, and balance the bill is here: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.2560:
278 Post contains links NIKV69 : Would be great but again NOT true. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1...-turnout-urban-areas_n_777640.html http://www.ballot-access.org/2010/11...-
279 Post contains links mt99 : Those compare mid-term to mid-term. You need to compare 2008 Presidential turnout rates to 2010 Midterm ones to support you point: 2008: 57.37% http:
280 Post contains images einsteinboricua : This has hardly to do with a voting record. As a Senator/Representative, your main concern is doing what your state/district sent you to do while try
281 Post contains links seb146 : There have been trillions of dollars in tax cuts to the rich all while shelling out trillions of dollars for war and private schools and subsidies fo
282 NIKV69 : Says who? Two totally different animals and another smoke screen. Turnout was fine for the midterms. The left did not stay home. This debt thing is a
283 Post contains images par13del : Thinkl he was talking about spending, but no compromise here The debt financing started well before the Bush tax cuts were enacted, and not much mone
284 Post contains links einsteinboricua : I believe there was source three posts above yours. I'll add another one: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-elections-2010-turnout-says-a-lot G
285 NIKV69 : Negative you can't use a presidental election when comparing midterms. Sorry. Ok you posted a blog that contained a cnn link about exit polls on a sm
286 Post contains links mt99 : If 2010 was a referendum of 2008 (as you suggest), then you need to compare the turnout of 2008 to 2010. 2. In 2008, 18-to-29-year-olds made up 18% a
287 par13del : Historically turn out for mid-terms is always lower, not sure how that affects the analysis.
288 NIKV69 : We are talking about Democratic turnout in a mid term. This has nothing to do with it. Of course it's a presidential election. It will always happen.
289 mt99 : Sheesh man! Do we really need to explain your own posts to you? It was not low overall - it was LOW for democrats!, HIGH for Republicans, AVERAGE for
290 Post contains links NIKV69 : Back it up with any source please that doesn't contain 2008. Here a progressive even backs up my claim with facts. Democrats did turn out in 2010. ht
291 mt99 : Was there an election in 2009? Thats news to me! I get it.. so yes the actions of 2009 (which are result of Obama's election in 2008) precipitated th
292 seb146 : And the "middle" will see the far right have not done a thing they promised in the last election and will vote left.
293 LTBEWR : One thing I am very concerned with this debt/spending debate is that the 'Tea Party movement' has gained power and influence and really has 'won'. No
294 StarAC17 : The right have been using this method for decades with the religious people, its nothing new. They are betting that they win politically because of t
295 Post contains images Boeing4ever : We have a revenue problem in addition to a spending problem. Any bill that doesn't propose ending the Bush tax cuts cannot be taken seriously. Bills
296 Superfly : Question. Is forgiven 'aid' to nations such as Israel, Egypt and other countries on the table? This isn't a partisan issue but it seems as though both
297 par13del : Silver lining, at least the debt and spending is now front and center on the nations mind. No congress has paid anything but lip service to the debt
298 Post contains links NIKV69 : By all means please. The far right doesn't make up the whole GOP just like the pro left doesn't make up the whole DNC. The GOP has tried to correct t
299 dxing : Which is no different than the democratic party and the President steam rolling the GOP during the stimulus and health care debates. I find it intere
300 par13del : Bigger question, should a country having problems paying its bills and borrowing left right and center be giving aid to anyone? Supplimental question
301 seb146 : Why, then, is everyone following Bachmann and Ryan around and Boehner being held hostage by them? If they do not make up the whole GOP, why are they
302 einsteinboricua : You might as well sit down and watch grass grow. What guarantees do you have that all the states (or at least enough for the amendment to enter into
303 NIKV69 : Who is following Bachmann? Ryan's plan was deep sixed they don't run anything. Boehner still has the votes on his bill. it's all theatre and it's a w
304 dxing : None, but that wasn't the issue. The issue was that the amendment made it out of Congress and on to the States. That is what the tea party members we
305 par13del : What guarantees did Obama have that the states would implement their portions of his health care bill and not challenge them in court? None, but that
306 Ken777 : Yep. Started with believing any American should be allowed to serve in the military and it ended up with DADT. We are now moving past that point, are
307 einsteinboricua : The fact that he proposed this during the campaign and got elected. When did one of the Republicans mention an amendment to the Constitution to rein
308 par13del : Deficit was not an issue during the election, it became one in the mid terms after the continued stimulus and TARP spending, and ongoing funding reso
309 Dreadnought : This idea has been around for a long time. In 1995, the GOP-controlled Congress passed the Balanced Budget Amendment 300-132 in the House and 65-35 i
310 mt99 : Hmm still waiting for that vote... Seems like gettin thier own people to vote is hard to do
311 Post contains images par13del : You saying they are not all mindless drones
312 NIKV69 : It will pass. Reid will shoot it down. Not have a plan and then blame the GOP while they beg Obama to invoke the 14th. Not nearly as hard as getting
313 474218 : I am simply amazed (not really) I the media is all up in arms about the "Tea Party" members that say they will not vote for Boehner's Bill. But don't
314 WarRI1 : Why would they, it it hopeless in the house, the Tea Party intimidates John, nothing is happening, and thank goodness the Dems control the Senate, an
315 WarRI1 : That is called Politics where I come from. Dirty, but hey! Do unto others.
316 Dreadnought : The house is not the problem. They already passed a budget and a debt ceiling increase. They've done their job. They don't need to do it again. Tell
317 mt99 : So if they pass it, it means that they are? "Hobbits" was the work McCain used i believe
318 par13del : Question, what explains the lack of a budget, which may have avoided some of this current debacle?
319 WarRI1 : A case of politics, surely you understand that, the waiting game in this biggest of games. Power.
320 WarRI1 : I cannot claim to understand the minds of these types in congress. the whys and wherefores baffle me. The hidden agenda's from both sides, the greed
321 Superfly : The answer is No and HELL NO! That is why I think Obama and Boehner are both full of it. A true 'friend' and 'ally' would understand this and not exp
322 zhiao : Actually, US compensation per hour worked is about the highest in the World, if you adjust for purchasing power. Using exchange rates, it's lower due
323 Baroque : McC has finally brought a smile to faces down under, rather than the winces he tended to get.
324 LTBEWR : I would use far more nasty terms for these fools that are holding our country hostage to their extreme loyalty to their beliefs over the Nation's. I
325 Post contains images par13del : If you did that you would only be confirming what everyone already says about the US, that the invasion was all about the oil, no one said for who A
326 Post contains images Baroque : I was wondering where to lob this graph, thanks LTBEWR for the perfect segue. Alan Kohler to the rescue again, via a US source of course. Polarizatio
327 Superfly : Big deal. They're gonna gripe about us regardless. At least our debts would be paid off.
328 einsteinboricua : Oh, the Pandora's Box that would have unleashed. Cool, then I suppose if someone breaks into your house because you're being a noisy neighbor and paw
329 NIKV69 : Which means we get no cuts and we will be worse in two years. Thankfully the Dems won't control much after 2012. They won't. A decision was made not
330 seb146 : The far right/tea people want to destroy this country. They oppose anything but their own bill. That is not patriotism. That is treason. The sooner t
331 NIKV69 : As opposed to a party doing nothing to try to get through an election? The TP is trying to prevent us from becoming Greece that isn't treason. It's b
332 dxing : No, because the cost of gas has gone up, the price of housing has gone up, the price of food has gone up. All basic staples have gone up and as you w
333 mt99 : You are both right. The "rich" end paying a lower tax rate, but in real dollars they pay the bulk of income taxes. Do you focus on the pure % or do y
334 par13del : A position which I think he allowed his party leanings to get him into, whether a good strategy or not, the party should have taken the hit for this
335 Post contains images Ken777 : Really? Then why did the conservatives set tip the Tea Party? Do you really think that voters will forget the current crisis? The who bloody world is
336 Baroque : Not wrong there, it is leading ALL our new items these day. Even the not left wing commentators from the US come up with your diagnosis. Must listen
337 NIKV69 : Yep by voting out Obama and the pro left who have manufactured this crisis by purposedly not passing a budget so they wouldn't have to pay for it at
338 Post contains links mt99 : And he gives in... Boehner Sways Holdouts with Balanced Budget Amendment http://www.theatlanticwire.com/polit...s-balanced-budget-amendment/40597/
339 Dreadnought : Excellent news. It's amazing how some people both here and in Congress can say with a straight face that a Balanced Budget Amendment is a bad idea. E
340 Post contains images windy95 : The Dems in the Senate and Obama continue to draw this out and refuse to come to the house who has already pased a good bill. The spenders continue t
341 NIKV69 : So trying to save the country by not having insolvent entitlements and debt out of control in 20 years is giving in? Wow. The rich are not going to b
342 mt99 : I don't think its a bad idea at all, but it should be part of process and not forced in 2 weeks politically charged bargaining. Now you can feel warm
343 mt99 : If that was his original goal, how come it wasn't in yesterday's bill?
344 Dreadnought : Why not? The only way today's democratic party will accept limits on spending is with a loaded .45 to the head. How about the country? You really don
345 Post contains images fruitbat : Dear America, Could you all please pull your necks in, reach a compromise, sort the debt ceiling and prevent the rest of the western world (who have,
346 mt99 : Ill let you answer that. They way it came down it shows a weak and frail GOP - i don think that that is particularly good for the country. But what d
347 Danny : Yeah its quite appalling that the world economy is put at stake in a political game in Washington. Naturally American and other people are not being a
348 Post contains links casinterest : I like this take on our default consequences and it highlights the two biggest reasons we stand where we do. http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/2....c
349 NIKV69 : Huh? We are in a double dip recession thanks to the health care bill and the Dems spending. Stop the demogugery and blaming Bush already. Do what has
350 Danny : As if GWB was running a surplus in his budget hey? Lets face it - both parties and the policies of last 14 years in US are to blame. Clinton was the
351 casinterest : How is my plan irresponsible. And what exaclty is my plan? you are throwing out two bit argument without an iota of facts. The irresponsibiltiy is in
352 NIKV69 : Sounds like the same as the Dems, just another blank check but feel free to tell us. They did, they gave you 800B in new taxes for some real cuts. Wh
353 par13del : The discussion the quote was related to was the presidential election, not the mid terms. The mid terms was about the economy hence the Tea Party cre
354 Superfly : Big deal. A few latte sippers in Paris and the usual suspects won't like us but at least our debts would be paid off. Dubya screwed up by going in to
355 einsteinboricua : Care to back this up with a source?
356 dxing : No, he is not right. Whether or not a person is paying enough, or whether the rate they pay at is considered too large or too small, it an opinion su
357 BMI727 : And there you hit exactly why liberal pursuits are for the most part ultimately doomed. It is ironic that the war American liberals love to rail agai
358 windy95 : Or more taxes...I will take my chance with the money staying in my pocket...
359 Post contains links NIKV69 : http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201007020046 Reid and Pelosi summoned to white house for a meeting with President.
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