Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Apple Cash Reserves Tops US Operating Balance  
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

Now this is hard to swallow:

Quote:

Apple's $76B in cash reserves surpasses US government operating balance

New figures from the U.S. Treasury Department indicate that the government has a total operating cash balance of $73.768 billion, less than Apple's own war chest of $75.876 billion.

As noted by Matt Hartley of the Financial Post, the news comes even as Republican and Democrat lawmakers debate over the federal budget and debt ceiling. The government's $73 billion number actually represents the "financial headroom" that lawmakers have before reaching an arbitrary debt ceiling, according to the report.
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles..._government_operating_balance.html

The odd thing about Apple's cash position is that they have continually invested in the future via R&D and other commitments. Steve Jobs has also focused on revenues in order to build cash for the future (just the opposite of politicians).


And Apple works hard to use their cash carefully. They invest in infrastructure - like the heavy investments in those machines that carve aluminum. Infrastructure investments includes deals to help finance new plants and prepaying on components.

And, also unique with computer companies, Apple focuses on consumers (the industry's lower and middle classes) and not the wealthy in the Corporate IT World. Think there is a lesson there for the politicians?

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2557 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2480 times:

You're saying Apple focuses on revenue, and also on the lower and middle classes.

So you're saying that's whom the government should turn to for revenue.



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently onlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3808 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2454 times:

It never fails to amuse me every time I see a lefty on Starbucks blogging on his latest Apple fashion statement. They always seem to be so willing to criticize "the man" but always seem more than willing to line up around the block for days to buy the latest product from a company that is the poster child for everything they hate in capitalism, from fleecing every last cent of revenue from their junkie clients by using closed architectures, to hoarding a massive amount of cash they will never have absolutely any use for, to sending in the FBI to bust up those who dare criticize them.


Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlinespudsmac From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 293 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2445 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
It never fails to amuse me every time I see a lefty on Starbucks blogging on his latest Apple fashion statement. They always seem to be so willing to criticize "the man" but always seem more than willing to line up around the block for days to buy the latest product from a company that is the poster child for everything they hate in capitalism, from fleecing every last cent of revenue from their junkie clients by using closed architectures, to hoarding a massive amount of cash they will never have absolutely any use for, to sending in the FBI to bust up those who dare criticize them.

"2"


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

And here we go for Mac vs. PC round no. 12 586 321, left vs. right round no. 15 225 897 and lower/middle class vs. "job creator" class round no. 14 986 475.   


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2378 times:

He didn't even mention charging premium prices while shipping off all manufacturing to China, leaving the American worker struggling to get by!   

User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 4):
And here we go for Mac vs. PC round no
Quoting racko (Reply 5):
He didn't even mention charging premium prices while shipping off all manufacturing to China,

It's a wonder the "Would you hit it" threads have not gone the same way, perhaps they have. There is a point in relation to why some US companies hoard cash as they do. US tax treatment of dividends is a possible cause. Then again you get News which probably has even stranger financial habits than Apple does. But I don't expect there to be much discussion on financial matters, too busy having a bash at the "other side".


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8740 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2211 times:

It's not only that they sell people the hardware, they addict the users with an ever increasing number of apps and they collect - I heard 30% - of the revenues. But hat is not enough, they spy on their customers by making them transparent, follow and record every step they make, what they do, what kind of music they like, where they are, what they buy and they collect this massive information to sell it to companies who build their marketing.

That's by far better and way more profitable than narcotics trafficking and the best of all - it's legal!!! At least in the USA.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
to hoarding a massive amount of cash they will never have absolutely any use for

I digress. They will probably need it when people get tired of their rehashed products or when Steve leaves and Apple is run to the ground again.

[Edited 2011-07-29 09:39:20]

User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8434 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):

But comparing business and government financial performance is largely pointless given the two have very different objectives.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2175 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 7):
But hat is not enough, they spy on their customers by making them transparent, follow and record every step they make, what they do, what kind of music they like, where they are, what they buy and they collect this massive information to sell it to companies who build their marketing.

I know that that's a popular meme on the internet, it's just not actually true.

But whatever floats your boat, even if it's just disinformation feeding your preconceived notions.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

Quoting Airstud (Reply 1):

You're saying Apple focuses on revenue, and also on the lower and middle classes.

Apple's first focus has been on design and producing what they consider the best possible product. That focus is more in tune with consumers over corporations. (How many big company CEOs are concerned with the design of the 10,000 computers they buy every year?)

As far as the customer base, it runs from those in lower economic levels who want an iPod to the wealthy who can buy anything and everything. The middle class has traditionally been the largest market .


Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):

It never fails to amuse me every time I see a lefty on Starbucks blogging on his latest Apple fashion statement.

At least you appear to be agreeing with them on your "fashion coffee".

Was it wrong for them to be able to select the computer, smart phone or tablet they wanted? You sound like a communist who hates freedom of choice for other consumers. mb

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
everything they hate in capitalism

LOL! I'm a capitalist. Grew up in a capitalist family, all the way through starting my own company. Twice. I used to be a Republican as well, but then they started eating their own, became obsessively arrogant and lost their morally way in exchange for slogans.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
from fleecing every last cent of revenue from their junkie clients by using closed architectures,

Unix is the core of OS X and Unix is open. You can convert every Mac into a Windows computer so even the hardware is not closed. What is closed is Apple's proprietary interface with Unix. Not all that different with any other OS, like Windows.

And Macs run vitalization, allowing you to run a mountain of different OSes at the same time. Check out Parallels for a full list.

As far as "junkie" goes, some people like design, be it in their car, house, furniture, electronic devices or clothes. Not that important in China for years, but even there design is part of decisions.

And design can be software or hardware, or both. Apple has long focused on both under Steve Jobs and consumers clearly appreciate the efforts of the people there.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
to hoarding a massive amount of cash they will never have absolutely any use for,

Well, they used almost $3 Billion of their cash in auctions of patients.

And they invest heavily in the future. How many other companies are spending that much money these days on the future?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 2):
to sending in the FBI to bust up those who dare criticize them.

Some people actually believe in corporate property and believe

Quoting Baroque (Reply 6):
There is a point in relation to why some US companies hoard cash as they do.

If you look at Apple's history you will see that they almost went broke. They were a few month form filing when Steve Jobs returned. Over a decade Apple has built up a huge cash reserve and it's easy to see that Job's desire not to get back in the hole is the main reason.

Maybe Jobs ever realized that a strong cash position protects the company when a recession hits. While other companies are cutting staff Apple continues to invest in R&D and growth AND continues to hire. They can because of their cash.

Apple has also learned how to invest in the future by prepaying for components, including investing in building new facilities or investing in new ideas in manufacturing.

And Apple has been putting the "unused" funds at work, earning interest or profits. At some point these investments will earn more profits for Apple than Dell is able to from all their businesses.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
And Apple has been putting the "unused" funds at work, earning interest or profits. At some point these investments will earn more profits for Apple than Dell is able to from all their businesses.

That point has already been crossed quite a while ago. Apple could actually buy Dell outright – in cash if they wanted. And it wouldn't even make a major dent in their coffers.


User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1624 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2116 times:

Its not the first time and it wont be the last time.


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
Unix is the core of OS X and Unix is open

Unix might be open. But OS X sure as hell isn't and the fact the core might be open means little.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
You can convert every Mac into a Windows computer so even the hardware is not closed.

Eh, seems you don't completely understand when people say the hardware is closed.
It is closed. Otherwise you would be able to put any after market parts you want in it instead of just being limited to changing the RAM sticks.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8740 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

Quoting bill142 (Reply 9):
But comparing business and government financial performance is largely pointless given the two have very different objectives.

Yes, but why are you quoting me? I haven't made any comparison between Apple and the Government.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
I know that that's a popular meme on the internet, it's just not actually true.

Oh, an Apple admirer and defender. I would not have bet on that one. I do not get my opinion from the net, never from one source anyhow, but this particular one is from my IT coach and it is very plausible.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8434 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2034 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 15):

The mouse on my MacBook has a mind of it's own.


User currently onlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3808 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2022 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
At least you appear to be agreeing with them on your "fashion coffee".

Actually, if I find myself inside a Starbucks, 9 times out of 10 is just because I am looking for a free bathroom (and the other time probably just buying a bottle of water). But then again, not really a coffee drinker, so nothing against them.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
What is closed is Apple's proprietary interface with Unix.

The software for their phones and tablets, the network for their mobile phones, the interface for their music players, the batteries for everything they make (there is a reason Apple's are not removable), up to a few years ago the format of the music you bought from them, etc. etc. etc.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
Over a decade Apple has built up a huge cash reserve and it's easy to see that Job's desire not to get back in the hole is the main reason.

No, he wants to hoard cash because he is clearly a megalomaniac - you can see that by the way he behaves and presents himself. It is all pathological, really, the poor guy probably thinks he is a long-lost relative of Scrooge McDuck.

Apple's cash balance is now almost 4 years of operating expenses. That means they could not sell a single iPod for 4 whole years and still have cash to keep expenses at their current level (even with all the investment they are supposedly doing) without having to borrow any money.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 17):
The software for their phones and tablets,

iOOS was developed from OS X. There are other mobile OSes out there and all are fighting for the consumer. Let's let the consumer decide who they want to buy from.

BTW, Apple doesn't own a market. They own their proprietary designs (hard & soft) and are dependent on consumers to approve or disapprove of their products. Just like any other company in the market.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 17):
No, he wants to hoard cash because he is clearly a megalomaniac

Steve Jobs is a genius. Hate to say it, but the guy's mind is so far ahead of the Basic Fortune 500 CEO that it is painful. Especially when those other 499 CEOs have to deliver quarterly reports that are only a shadow of Apple's.

Where Jobs outpaces other CEOs is his ability to see what will be the top product in a market 2 or 4 years into the future and to invest in R&D to develop a product that will be ahead of the market.

Look at the tablet. Apple worked on it for 4 or 5 years - doing the iPhone & touch first. When he announced the iPad he was able to show it off and then say, "If you have an iPhone or iPad you already know how to use it".

The second important part of the iPad is that the competition wasn't able to work on a competitive product until the iPad was launched - years after Apple started working on it. Let's wait another year or two and see who is making monkey off of tablets. My bet is that it will be Apple and iPad developers.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 17):
Apple's cash balance is now almost 4 years of operating expenses. That means they could not sell a single iPod for 4 whole years and still have cash to keep expenses at their current level (even with all the investment they are supposedly doing) without having to borrow any money.

Now you're learning.

Apple has the financial power to stroll through the Great Recession, delivering record breaking quarters year after year. It has the financial power to make investments that are logical for them - such as the Nortel patents. They have the power to invest heavily in R&D, pure design or what ever else they see as important to the future.


User currently onlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3808 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 18):
Now you're learning.

Not learning now, I actually do know quite a lot of corporate finance, no need for you to teach me, thank you very much. I know enough, anyway, to understand that there is a difference between financial prudence and empire building. That line might be a bit blurry sometimes, but he is so clearly over the line on this one he is about to go around and come out of the other end.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 18):
Steve Jobs is a genius. Hate to say it, but the guy's mind is so far ahead of the Basic Fortune 500 CEO that it is painful. Especially when those other 499 CEOs have to deliver quarterly reports that are only a shadow of Apple's.

Where Jobs outpaces other CEOs is his ability to see what will be the top product in a market 2 or 4 years into the future and to invest in R&D to develop a product that will be ahead of the market.

That's great, but there's a major problem with that. If he is truly that involved with everything, Apple could be up the creek without a paddle when Jobs health finally catches up with him. Face it, the guy isn't going to live that much longer. Apple could (and likely is, IMHO) be in big trouble when he kicks the can.

-DiamondFlyer



Rock Chalk Jayhawk
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1963 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 19):
I know enough, anyway, to understand that there is a difference between financial prudence and empire building.

Then you probably understand that the near death experience of Apple would have been a strong motivator for Apple to have more than "normal" cash levels. What they set as a goal is not going to be disclosed, but is obviously going to be higher than a company that never made it close to the dark side.

I also would challenge the "empire building" bit. When Apple revealed the iPhone all the professionals were pretty critical. Consumers pretty quickly wanted one, but the market had no idea of how throng it would turn out. The same with the iPad.

Apple's success to a very large degree is based on design - both software and hardware. Maybe NOT being a Windows product helped, but Apple has fart better focus on the consumer than anyone else. Everyone else is being left behind. Apple has shown them how to do it and they still can't get it right.

It is therefore inaccurate to talk about empire building. Consumers have decided and you're trying to consider Apple guilty because they didn't fail.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 19):
but he is so clearly over the line on this one he is about to go around and come out of the other end.

There is no line. It's a company decision and both customers and shareholders consider Apple is doing the right thing.

Apple is protected from recession or a depression. It can spend money to design, invent, and explore. They are protected from having to take the dull, safe route that the Dell of today take.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 20):
If he is truly that involved with everything, Apple could be up the creek without a paddle when Jobs health finally catches up with him.

Jobs has done a lot to protect Apple (like the cash holdings) and they will be in a strong position. Some execs, like Jonathan Ive, are fairly well known, others are pretty quiet, but just as bright. And Jobs has also firmly established a corporate culture that will last long after he does.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1959 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 5):
He didn't even mention charging premium prices while shipping off all manufacturing to China

Of course not. Why let the facts get in the way of a good rant?

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
And Apple works hard to use their cash carefully. They invest in infrastructure - like the heavy investments in those machines that carve aluminum. Infrastructure investments includes deals to help finance new plants and prepaying on components.

If only that infrastructure was in the US.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5429 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1952 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):

I know that that's a popular meme on the internet, it's just not actually true.

Actually, it is true. Every time you purchase something, that data is collected and compared to other things you have bought through that service. It all goes into a huge database, and is pulled when you're searching for something and is used to generate ads based on what the algorithm perceives your interests to be. That information may also be sold to third-party advertisers who will use it in a similar way.

The catch is: a human will probably never see that data, and it's not necessarily evil.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
That focus is more in tune with consumers over corporations. (How many big company CEOs are concerned with the design of the 10,000 computers they buy every year?)

Not really a logical argument: most big company CEOs don't make (or even see) purchase orders. The bean counters make a budget, and the managers make a decision on what they can buy within that budget. They make the decision based on the needs of the company... so yes, corporations do look at computer designs (if they can afford to).

Yes, Apple caters to the "lowly" consumer. But you can bet they also cater to corporations, from movie studios to banks.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1944 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 23):
Yes, Apple caters to the "lowly" consumer. But you can bet they also cater to corporations, from movie studios to banks.

Absolutely.


25 Ken777 : A lot of it is - major investments in the Apple Stores (which does grow employment) and let's not forget the growth in self employment based on the A
26 Klaus : So you're not even talking about your own prejudices, but about second-hand ones. Now these must surely trump my first-hand experiences and direct te
27 NIKV69 : They are not building new stand alone buildings the are renting storefronts. It's great but hardly a huge investment in infrastrucure in fact from wh
28 Klaus : You're almost completely wrong there. They are in fact buying and building their stores wherever feasible, but in some cases that just can't be done,
29 NIKV69 : They are renting stores in malls, any stand alone buildings are also something already built and being rented. I have found plans to build one store
30 Post contains links Springbok747 : Not to mention the shocking working conditions at their factories in China.. Technology giant Apple has admitted that some of its workers in China ha
31 Post contains links and images Ken777 : IIRC, Apple delivers a long term lease, not a little "rent;". Like at Grand Central Station in New York City:
32 NIKV69 : Same thing. Remember we were discussing US infrastructure.
33 Revelation : I don't see a problem with this. There are other options for pretty much every thing Apple sells, and of course one can survive without an iPod/iPad/
34 Ken777 : Not when you look at the money involved. And the capital investment in building out their stores. Even when they do to the "mall route" they are maki
35 windy95 : More McDonald's job's at the mall while manufacturing goes overseas Not in the US. Just typical mall storefront rentals.... But it is still retail jo
36 windy95 : Would you still be singing the same tune if this was the Appple Oil Company making record profits and hoarding cash? Or would they then be evil oil r
37 Ken777 : My father spent 43 years working in an oil company so I doubt if I would have a problem. To make it simple, I don't support Apple in other companies
38 windy95 : But you are okay with Apple sending all of their manufacturing jobs to China so they an make an obscene profit? All those revenue generating jobs tha
39 Klaus : Some of them, notably in existing malls as you've said. Others are purpose-built where possible. Because this is an overly simplistic statement which
40 windy95 : Almost all of them here in the states.
41 Airstud : There is simply no love out there for my MPW software projects in MrC for System 6...
42 Ken777 : You build your jobs where you can. Maybe if this country didn't use employer nanny care it would be easier to expand manufacturing. They can bring ba
43 Post contains images Klaus : Well, yes, there is... for such old-time software you'll just have to look for old-time Classic Macs to run them on.
44 Revelation : Ok, you are right, both sides should be stated. So what if the statement was "While Apple uses many open standards/protocols/components in its produc
45 Klaus : "Almost every aspect" is just incorrect. They are quite selective about what they keep under wraps. Even iOS is quite accessible by itself; Just when
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Lufthansa - "Apple Engineer, Drinks On Us" posted Thu Apr 22 2010 18:47:16 by boeingfever777
IEA Releases Oil Reserves To US posted Fri Sep 2 2005 20:46:46 by WhiteHatter
Bob Bradley Fired As US Soccer Coach... posted Thu Jul 28 2011 13:04:28 by alberchico
Show Us Your Desktop: July posted Fri Jul 22 2011 20:40:23 by JetBlue777
Fake Apple Stores Found In China posted Thu Jul 21 2011 14:45:39 by Springbok747
Places To See/Visit In The US posted Wed Jul 20 2011 12:02:15 by AmricanShamrok
Trick Allows Free Flights With Scam To US Mint posted Thu Jul 14 2011 15:48:27 by Gonzalo
Tell Us What You Weigh (if You Wish!) posted Thu Jul 14 2011 13:06:30 by BMIFlyer
Spotify Launches In The US posted Thu Jul 14 2011 06:58:29 by solnabo
US Should Shift It's Focus To Domestic Issues posted Wed Jul 13 2011 17:02:10 by kevin