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Buffett To Congress: Don't 'coddle' Me  
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8284 posts, RR: 8
Posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

Warren Buffett does it again - with all the Tea Party folks cry out that we need to protect the wealthiest (because they are "job creators who don't create jobs.) Warren tells it like he sees it.

Quote:

"While the poor and middle class fight for us in Afghanistan, and while most Americans struggle to make ends meet, we mega-rich continue to get our extraordinary tax breaks," wrote Buffett, who has mentioned in past interviews that the rich should pay higher taxes.
http://money.cnn.com/2011/08/15/news...ffett_tax_jobs/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2

Maybe we should listen to a guy who is simply cutting through the fluff.

136 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25442 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2192 times:

If he feels so bad, he can "donate" money to the IRS.

In the mean time, lets keep the governments hands out of American's pockets.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2185 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Warren Buffett does it again - with all the Tea Party folks cry out that we need to protect the wealthiest (because they are "job creators who don't create jobs.) Warren tells it like he sees it.

You realize he's talking about people that make over $1 million a year, not Obama's plan to increase taxes on households making $250,.000 or more right?

And, we have just as big, if not more, of a spending problem as we do a revenue problem.

[Edited 2011-08-15 15:23:38]


The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2160 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
If he feels so bad, he can "donate" money to the IRS

Before this thread was started, I knew that when it was, one of the first 3 responses would be exactly this.

The thing is, people will work within the set of rules that exist (hopefully). If he decides to donate money to the government, that doesn't mean anyone else would. It doesn't help to fix anything. If rules are changed such that people have to pay more then... maybe they will.

He's suggesting that the fact that he paid a far lower percentage in taxes than his office staff is silly. And it is.

The sorts of changes he propose won't fix our problems, but they are one step in the right direction. More revenue. Less spending. Sure you're not going enough money from the ultra-rich to close the gap (nor should you), but you've got to get more money from somewhere! People living paycheck to paycheck don't have any for you.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2131 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 2):
You realize he's talking about people that make over $1 million a year, not Obama's plan to increase taxes on households making $250,.000 or more right?

One of the great failings of both the Democrats and the Republicans is the refusal to recognize the fact that there's a difference between people making $250k and $1 million a year, and there's a difference between the people making $1 million a year and $10 million a year. I think all of them should be paying higher taxes than they are now, but they shouldn't be in the same bracket.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Warren tells it like he sees it.

Right up to the part where he writes a check which he never seems to do.

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Maybe we should listen to a guy who is simply cutting through the fluff.

Oh he has written a check? No he hasn't. Put up or shut up.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
If he feels so bad, he can "donate" money to the IRS.

  

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 3):
He's suggesting that the fact that he paid a far lower percentage in taxes than his office staff is silly. And it is.

Then why doesn't he write a check?


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21470 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
If he feels so bad, he can "donate" money to the IRS.

That is simply not possible. Taxes cannot be "donated".

But Buffet is in fact a huge donor for various causes.

I'm sure your concern for his financial wellbeing will warm his heart. Or rather – given his outlook on things – he may merely shake his head in puzzled disbelief at the thoroughly ideological self-mutilation of some people.

CNN doesn't seem to link directly to Buffet's op-ed article. This is it:

Stop Coddling the Super-Rich - NYTimes.com

In my view the operative passage:

Quote:
Back in the 1980s and 1990s, tax rates for the rich were far higher, and my percentage rate was in the middle of the pack. According to a theory I sometimes hear, I should have thrown a fit and refused to invest because of the elevated tax rates on capital gains and dividends.

I didn’t refuse, nor did others. I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off. And to those who argue that higher rates hurt job creation, I would note that a net of nearly 40 million jobs were added between 1980 and 2000. You know what’s happened since then: lower tax rates and far lower job creation.

Since 1992, the I.R.S. has compiled data from the returns of the 400 Americans reporting the largest income. In 1992, the top 400 had aggregate taxable income of $16.9 billion and paid federal taxes of 29.2 percent on that sum. In 2008, the aggregate income of the highest 400 had soared to $90.9 billion — a staggering $227.4 million on average — but the rate paid had fallen to 21.5 percent.

[...]

My friends and I have been coddled long enough by a billionaire-friendly Congress. It’s time for our government to get serious about shared sacrifice.


User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2094 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
That is simply not possible. Taxes cannot be "donated".

You actually can gift money to the US Treasury as I understand it.

The "he should write a check" thing is just the TEA party / Fox News response to his statements. Aside from the fact that, as I mentioned earlier, that it would do nothing to improve any the structural failings of our current tax scheme.

It's just chest thumping.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21470 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
Right up to the part where he writes a check which he never seems to do.

You could hardly be any more wrong, though apparently not for lack of trying:

FORTUNE Magazine: Warren Buffett gives away his fortune - Jun. 25, 2006

Quote:
Buffett has pledged to gradually give 85% of his Berkshire stock to five foundations. A dominant five-sixths of the shares will go to the world's largest philanthropic organization, the $30 billion Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, whose principals are close friends of Buffett's (a connection that began in 1991, when a mutual friend introduced Buffett and Bill Gates).

The Gateses credit Buffett, says Bill, with having "inspired" their thinking about giving money back to society. Their foundation's activities, internationally famous, are focused on world health -- fighting such diseases as malaria, HIV/AIDS, and tuberculosis -- and on improving U.S. libraries and high schools.

Several of these causes are classic public obligations, which he's supporting directly.

Quote:
Because the value of Buffett's gifts are tied to a future, unknowable price of Berkshire, there is no way to put a total dollar value on them. But the number of shares earmarked to be given have a huge value today: $37 billion.

Well, it's not actually a paper cheque, if that was what you were referring to, but at these volumes and at the somewhat complex nature of this transfer of his wealth, I guess we should assume it just as good, shouldn't we?

So, how are your own charitable donations stacking up by comparison?

Maybe even just as a percentage of your own assets?

Any further complaints?


User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8153 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2073 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):

In the mean time, lets keep the governments hands out of American's pockets.

He was talking about just that - except for the several hundred Americans who have income in nine digits or more. You guys just knee jerk to everything without reading what the guy said.

Every president since Teddy R has supported progressive taxation, so what gives? I don't hear you griping about all of them en masse.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):

Right up to the part where he writes a check which he never seems to do.

He has paid more in taxes than you'll make in five lifetimes and is still willing to do more. I'd say that stands for quite a bit.
Larry Ellison, another billionaire and class-A jerk if you've ever seen an interview with him, despite high taxes has nevertheless been creating jobs in California for 30+ years. He continued to make investments in his business with the Oracle takeover of Sun Micro and isn't looking back.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2073 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
That is simply not possible. Taxes cannot be "donated".

Wrong..

http://www.fms.treas.gov/faq/moretopics_gifts.html

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
But Buffet is in fact a huge donor for various causes.

Sure donations are tax deductible.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 7):
You actually can gift money to the US Treasury as I understand it.

Yep you can.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 7):
It's just chest thumping.

In addition to a cheap campaign parlor trick from the Obama administration to try to get the independents back.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):
Several of these causes are classic public obligations, which he's supporting directly.

In addition to getting a huge tax deduction for the donations which he pockets. Like I said start writing checks made out to the US treasury or shut up.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21470 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2058 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
That is simply not possible. Taxes cannot be "donated".

Wrong..

Ah, okay, so in the US that's possible.

Buffet has still chosen to give almost all of his wealth away for public causes, just through a different channel.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
In addition to getting a huge tax deduction for the donations which he pockets. Like I said start writing checks made out to the US treasury or shut up.

You cannot really understand what "tax deductions" really mean in context with the article and with him giving his wealth away anyway, or you would have understood that in this context your statement is utterly nonsensical.

It seems Buffet has understood that there's little point in being the richest guy in the cemetery. He may be somewhat ahead of you there.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25442 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2039 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
That is simply not possible. Taxes cannot be "donated".

As others have indicated its absolutely possible to donate money to the government.

Various people and groups do it - mostly on the smaller scale - for instance locally in my town people donated money to help buy equipment for the fire department, and to spruce up a park.

Nothing is stopping Messrs Buffet, Gates, or anyone else from writing nice checks to their government.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 9):
Every president since Teddy R has supported progressive taxation, so what gives? I don't hear you griping about all of them en masse.

Oh I'll argue against what you call "progressive" taxation, as really being regressive taxation.

Its absolutely ridiculous in my opinion (as a heavily taxed small business owner) that 10% of American must pay 68% of all taxes, and that over 47% of American households see a end of year federal tax liability of ZERO.

You want to get 'progressive', then make sure everyone pays into the system.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5452 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2031 times:

sigh....

Every time one of these rich, altruistic folks decides it's time to tell the common folks that the common folk must buck up and help out in times of need, just like they do, by paying more taxes...I wretch.

These folks have made their millions and in some cases billions. Some of them are no longer making huge incomes and therefore do not have huge tax bills.

People seem to forget that we do NOT tax wealth in the US. We tax income. If there is no or little income, you will pay no or little tax...it really doesn't matter what you have in the bank. Oh yeah, you pay tax on interest and depending on the state, you'll pay on certain property (including your home), but, overall, as compared to your wealth, your tax bill will be minuscule.

So once again...  . You want to give away your money....more power to you, it's your money, but, give me a chance to make my small pile. Chances are that I won't be a rival to you for the cover of Forbes.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8153 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2025 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
and that over 47% of American households see a end of year federal tax liability of ZERO.

That certainly requires adjustment as well, but the fact is undertaxation in the billionaire class is alive and well. The Japanese system is certainly more simplistic in that the brackets are simply 10% for under ~$35K, 20%, 30% and 35%. There is also a 45% estate tax on individuals with assets over approximately $50 million, which forces those individuals and their families to do useful things with their money before passing on.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
(as a heavily taxed small business owner)

As has been repeatedly pointed out, this is wrong and counter-productive. Clearly a person like you is not in the same league of obligation as a person making two or three digits more.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
Every time one of these rich, altruistic folks decides it's time to tell the common folks that the common folk must buck up and help out in times of need, just like they do, by paying more taxes...I wretch.

He didn't say that. Again, he was talking about people in the nine digits. You'll note the title of the editorial was not "Stop Coddling The Middle Class Folks".



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21470 posts, RR: 53
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2026 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
Every time one of these rich, altruistic folks decides it's time to tell the common folks that the common folk must buck up and help out in times of need, just like they do, by paying more taxes...I wretch.

Nonsense. You obviously have not read the article.

Buffet proposes exactly the opposite of what you're claiming: That he and his fellow multi-billionaires should get their taxation increased so that people with low and moderate incomes can see theirs decreased.

He proposes that he'd take on some of your tax burden. Which appears to be exactly what you seem to want, isn't it?


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1997 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
with all the Tea Party folks cry out that we need to protect the wealthiest (because they are "job creators who don't create jobs.) Warren tells it like he sees it.

Or, we could simply look over the past 30 years or so and see that when taxes are cut, jobs are lost but when taxes are raised, jobs are created. But, we need to protect the smallest group of people that hold the most wealth in this country. That is more important than the right-wing promise they told us in 2010 and that is they will create jobs. Where are the jobs?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25442 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 14):
As has been repeatedly pointed out, this is wrong and counter-productive. Clearly a person like you is not in the same league of obligation as a person making two or three digits more.

Well with all the bashing and name calling by Obama and Dems against those earning $250,000, it seems the small business owners who employ just over half of all private sector employees in America have become the enemy in this debate.

Quite discouraging imo.

Either the limit they are talking about needs to be raised significantly(into the millions), or the way earnings of sole proprietorships, DBAs, small corporations are calculated needs to be changed to only tax the end net income, not things like gross receipts. One can generate $1mil in revenue and be taxed on that, but end up with a large net loss at the end and not a penny in the bank to show for all the work.
Another peeve of mine is inheritance tax, where a tax might be due on a thing like a business, farm or property based on its valuation, which forces a fire sale to pay the tax but generates no where close to the valuation and there goes whatever you just inherited.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
a cheap campaign parlor trick from the Obama administration

How, exactly, is this the Obama administration's doing? Specifically.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Like I said start writing checks made out to the US treasury or shut up.

More parroting of the talking heads on a certain TV "news" channel. How would this serve to structurally, systematically, change things going forward?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
and that over 47% of American households see a end of year federal tax liability of ZERO

That's simply not true. Perhaps if you had included the word "income..."


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8284 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1983 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 5):
Right up to the part where he writes a check which he never seems to do.

Impressive how you know what his personal contributions have been over the years.

Why not share some numbers with us.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Yep you can.

You can even make a contribution to help reduce the national debt. Guess where your money goes.

Straight to the general fund.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10):
Sure donations are tax deductible.

Tyhink about it. If Buffett has an 18% or so effective tax rate he only deducts 18% of any contribution.

So a contribution "costs" him 82%. On a $100,000,000 that odd arithmetic of yours costs him $82,000,000.

Not very good motivation iMHO.  Wow!
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
and that over 47% of American households see a end of year federal tax liability of ZERO.

One of the largest factors in that situation is the GOP's Socialist $1,000 per child HANDOUT. It helped get them elected ONCE in the last century and we are still paying for it . Probably more expensive than W's Ego War - and rather queer considering that the GOP is turning into the TP.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
Every time one of these rich, altruistic folks decides it's time to tell the common folks that the common folk must buck up and help out in times of need, just like they do, by paying more taxes...I wretch.

Buffett wasn't taking the "common folks" to buck it up. He was talking about taxing the top tier of income.

So you can put the barf Rx away and relax.

Unless you are one of the "Billionaire Friendly" politicians he was also talking about.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
People seem to forget that we do NOT tax wealth in the US. We tax income.

For a lot of Americans their home has traditionally been the core of their middle-class "wealth", And in most states it gets TAXED.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
you'll pay on certain property (including your home), but, overall, as compared to your wealth, your tax bill will be minuscule.

My property taxes have never been "minuscule" for me.

And I've never voted against raising it in oder to pay for schools and roads, etc. Most of the time these bond issues pass and normal Americans in this city raise their down taxes for the improvements in the city.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1963 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Oh I'll argue against what you call "progressive" taxation, as really being regressive taxation.

Which is a ludicrous argument.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
Every time one of these rich, altruistic folks decides it's time to tell the common folks that the common folk must buck up and help out in times of need, just like they do, by paying more taxes...I wretch.

Your wretching should, in that case, be directed at those who make statements like this:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Its absolutely ridiculous in my opinion (as a heavily taxed small business owner) that 10% of American must pay 68% of all taxes, and that over 47% of American households see a end of year federal tax liability of ZERO.

You want to get 'progressive', then make sure everyone pays into the system.

I recommend reading the article again and seeing just who it is that Buffett thinks should be paying more. Hint: it's not the common folk.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
the way earnings of sole proprietorships, DBAs, small corporations are calculated needs to be changed to only tax the end net income, not things like gross receipts.

This is the way that $250,000 number has been calculated all along. If you run a business that grosses $300k, but pay out $200k for operating expenses, you're obviously not earning more than $250k, and thus your taxes don't go up.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineShyFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1958 times:

I find this whole thing quite interesting. Buffet, a man that I think we all agree has been highly successful in managing his own finances, feels that he and his peers should give more money to a government that has demonstrated time after time gross financial mismanagement. If the USGov were a company, Uncle Warren wouldn't dare invest in it or even provide it loans.

Until the US Government can demonstrate it can handle it's finances responsibly, they sure as hell don't deserve more money, regardless from whom its taken. If I ran up huge amounts of debt, then went to my employer and demanded he should pay me more, I'd be lucky if all I got was laughed out of the office.


User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
Impressive how you know what his personal contributions have been over the years.

Well Buffet and Gates while they do not have to give anything to charity all they money they give relative to their wealth is pocket change. I myself relative to my wealth I would bet I give far more then either of them do to charity. That aside I am more for a flat and fair tax I think would bring in far more revenue and cut all these loopholes. As it stands now I as a middle class guy who makes around 100k and single I get killed in taxes. There are far too many companies getting tax breaks who continue to offshore jobs anyway GE being one of them. Being a middle of the road independent I think if we are going after entitlements which I pay into by the way I say everyone needs some skin in the game so yes old Warren can give till it hurts if he wishes.

[Edited 2011-08-15 19:02:56]


NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25442 posts, RR: 49
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1947 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 18):
That's simply not true. Perhaps if you had included the word "income..."
Tax Day is a dreaded deadline for millions, but for nearly half of U.S. households it's simply somebody else's problem.

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly...households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
Which is a ludicrous argument.

Yes its ludicrous that almost 50% of America don't pay the IRS, while the top 10% contribute to 68% of federal taxes.

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
This is the way that $250,000 number has been calculated all along. If you run a business that grosses $300k, but pay out $200k for operating expenses, you're obviously not earning more than $250k, and thus your taxes don't go up.

Suggest you run a business - there are things like gross receipt taxes. You sell it for $1, you pay a portion of it for taxes regardless what your ending net balance is.

$250,000 (or even $1mil in a business) is hardly "rich" in my book to be thrown so willingly under the bus.
Seems the only reward one gets for working hard, and doing well is a larger tax bill..  Confused  Confused

[Edited 2011-08-15 19:18:56]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8551 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1935 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Maybe we should listen to a guy who is simply cutting through the fluff.

On the other hand, he has now made / given away all his money and he is at the end of his happy life. So of course he is willing to pay more taxes "in the future." Now is a great time for him to have that feeling!

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 22):
There are far too many companies getting tax breaks who continue to offshore jobs anyway GE being one of them.

Sorry I don't buy it. If you are comfortable of course you should pay some taxes. Companies provide jobs. I see no reason why Berkshire Hathaway should pay profit taxes. The notion itself is perverse. They provide jobs (lots and lots of jobs). Economic activity is exactly what we want to foster, not prevent. We should hope they make as much damn money as possible.

THEN, those profits should be taxed on the personal income level of Warren Buffet and the like. There is no need to tax it at Berkshire. That only lowers their project size and the teams hired to do that project.

[Edited 2011-08-15 19:21:15]

25 Post contains images Flighty : Dudes netting a million a year are not rich in your book? Really?
26 stratosphere : I agree but what I am saying is there are a lot of companies enjoying major tax breaks all the while NOT providing jobs in the USA or at least offsho
27 Flighty : I agree so let's stop taxing them and making them do that BS. They can employ all of Harvard Law School -- you'll never stop them. So at least let's
28 BMI727 : The Buffett can tax himself and/or donate as much money as he needs to sleep at night. There is no need for him to be meddling in other people's fina
29 LAXintl : Not as a business no. A mil does not buy you much if you have need for equipment, buildings, inventory etc, right over the horizon. And on a personal
30 StuckInCA : Read the article, not just the talking points... Here's a snippet: "The vast majority of people who escape federal income taxes still pay other taxes
31 WarRI1 : I admire the man, he at least has the balls to say it. Tax me. Where are all the other job creators? They are not creating, here, while sucking up the
32 PPVRA : Buffett is a liar taking advantage of the complexity of the tax code to mislead people to advance his political agenda. I don't believe for a second h
33 Post contains images WarRI1 : A slight difference of opinion, what has he to gain? A taxbreak?
34 Post contains images LAXintl : As I stated almost 50% of households owe the IRS nothing in Federal Taxes at the end of the year. What is incorrect with that statement? Its rather s
35 stratosphere : Agreed so offer them to companies who keep all their jobs here offer incentives. My point is that these companies get their tax break and off shore a
36 Post contains images WN738 : The Tea Party fanatics always seem to ignore the fact that during the past few years the Bush Cuts have been in effect and what has ig gotten us? Med
37 WarRI1 : Absolutely, a very good idea. They are having it both ways, while we lose jobs, and they get rewarded for it. They suck the money out of the economy,
38 PPVRA : Who claims this? Give me names. The funniest part is that you contradict yourself in your own argument, and you don't even realize.
39 WN738 : Actually i don't. You may THINK I am contradicting myself, but I'm certain i am not. But do please elaborate, if you so desire. Anyone who makes Mill
40 san747 : Names aren't necessary. No one needs $100 million to live comfortably, and if you can't do so with that amount of money, you probably have some kind
41 Post contains links and images PPVRA : Warren Buffett's Very Strange Tax Argument Warren Buffett
42 PPVRA : I asked for names. I bet you can't give me a SINGLE one. You are completely missing the point of why I and others are against taxing the wealthy disp
43 san747 : No I'm not, I'm explaining why it doesn't make any practical sense. Jamie McCourt. It would make you sick keeping track of the McCourt divorce debacl
44 PPVRA : That wealth was *created* by those people. Profit is the incentive. You take away the incentive, you kill wealth. Then you have nothing to tax. Quick
45 san747 : Buffett himself said that the possibility of profits being taxed has never stopped him or any other successful investor from making a sound investmen
46 BMI727 : You say that like it's a bad thing. It is there money, and we are in no place to pass judgment on the financial philosophies and business of others.
47 Post contains images WN738 : See below. You do a good job of trying bringing up irrelevant questions though Oh i don't love Buffet; but i do love the fact that he at least admits
48 san747 : No... nice try though. I used my situation as an example of how even with a very low income, I do just fine. Obviously, I wouldn't recommend my curre
49 san747 : You might have been trying to quote PPVRA there... I'm trying to agree with you!
50 PPVRA : History has shown this. It doesn't matter what one man says, he isn't the whole economy. Let's try to be a bit more precise with wording here, shall
51 BMI727 : You're making the same argument. You decided that they don't need it and you'd rather have it. So we all get to decide what is harmful? Oh yeah. Lots
52 Post contains images WN738 : It is. And virtually every ethical philosophy/religion out there condemns such a thing. There's also something called an ethical responsibility to he
53 san747 : No... don't put words in my mouth. I think it's great that people in this country can become very wealthy, I don't see it as a bad thing at all and I
54 PPVRA : You talk about turning 90% of society against 10% and you bring up exploitation? Democracy is tyranny of the majority. As a human being you have ever
55 san747 : Well good to know you've never been broke or had money problems judging by those two baffling statements. Some of us have been under the poverty line
56 Mir : Okay, so what percentage of the tax burden should the bottom 50% be paying? Keep in mind that they have less than 5% of the wealth in the country. Ok
57 Aaron747 : And this is why they've lost many fiscally-minded independents forever. If the debate weren't framed around $250K, it would be an entirely different
58 BMI727 : It isn't, which is why I'm mystified as to why people have such a problem with it. Keep jacking up taxes and you might find out. There are probably e
59 Post contains images WN738 : So basically, NO ONE should have a right to retire right? Get rid of food stamps right? Get rid of medicare and medicaid right? Every one except CEOs
60 san747 : Thank you for saying that in a more eloquent manner than I did before.
61 Post contains links and images Aaron747 : Are you sure about that? Ever heard of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation?? Your statement is through and through factually incorrect. According
62 KiwiRob : 260,000 people, if he was taxed more he'd still employ 260,000 people.
63 windy95 : The only fluff is between his ears. At the end of his life and already made his billions he is proposing something that he could of done voluntarily
64 D L X : I know, right?! I mean, it boggles my mind that we haven't shifted to a purely voluntary system. We should not tax anyone. We should only ask for don
65 windy95 : No it is not..For this very reason. Majority rules leads to chaos. We live in a Representative Republic.
66 windy95 : If Buffett feels so bad then he could donate. No sarcasm required. He is a hypocrite..
67 StuckInCA : I see what you did there! You throw in the words "end of the year." So while you may be technically correct, I'd say you are being willfully misleadi
68 N867DA : Boy, people are so selfish these days they're willing to gut a nation to get theirs! Has anyone considered that their quality of life may be better if
69 AGM100 : Geez people will say any thing for a Obama care waiver these days .... of well . Like I said the economy in the US now belongs to the left and it will
70 sq_ek_freak : Because him writing a check doesn't solve any of the systematic issues he's trying to bring to light. And he does writes checks, just to countless ch
71 AGM100 : Of course .... but how does the government receiving more taxes help your neighbor ? If you are poor in America ... you will be poor no matter what .
72 Post contains images Aaron747 : Well yes, but only because special interests and their lobbyist attack dogs are so well entrenched in their positions within the game of our politica
73 D L X : I'm pretty sure you missed the point of my post. Taxation is and should be compulsory. This idea that rich people who think the rich aren't taxed eno
74 PPVRA : It is these lies that you have fallen for hook, line and sinker that create economic problems in the first place. Huh? The bigger the government, the
75 NIKV69 : I love how he forgot to include that even if people like him are taxed more it doesn't even come close to fixing the problem. Unless of course he wan
76 seb146 : How so? People have lived in poverty since this country began. Renters struggling to get by, slaves who simply worked the fields; Poverty is an inven
77 PPVRA : LOL Donating = thoughtless Taking it by brute force = I assume thoughtful? Only in a leftist's world![Edited 2011-08-16 08:37:04]
78 StuckInCA : That's a bold claim. I guess it comes down to what you mean by "make it." I can guarantee you that if I were going to have to start over with no fami
79 PPVRA : They hire people are cheaply as possible and you buy products as cheaply as possible. I.e., you are giving them as little for their work as you can p
80 Baroque : And if I were S&P, I would similarly shake my head and knock another A off the rating, or bearing in mind the nature of this thread, knock anothe
81 D L X : You know that is not what I said. If you like straw men. A rational reading of what I said is that the idea that you should donate to the government
82 PPVRA : Let me give you an example. Hurricane Katrina. Remember the cash cards that were handed out and ended up being used in strip clubs and what not? Thos
83 Post contains images NIKV69 : Why not? He says he shouldn't be coddled and pays less than his secretary yet for him to take it upon himself and pay that extra in tax is a thoughtl
84 PPVRA : Why not? If you believe paying more is not only correct but the right thing to do, you would send in a check.
85 Ken777 : If you generate $1 million in sales you probably have various expenses that are deducted before you calculate your Net Profit Before Taxes. If you se
86 AGM100 : The social issue of flash mobs and union riots if they don't get what they want ? Agree. Like a certain member on here say's.."a check in their hands
87 StuckInCA : In my opinion, your world view is hard to relate to. You only seem to equate success to being a business owner. What if you are, say, an engineer who
88 Baroque : Yep, just like the peace and liberty Krupp brought to Europe for so long. Still you are probably correct in as much as arguably Alfried was the only
89 Post contains links san747 : It is your disability to understand what I or others who feel differently than you have said and instantly come up with vague and irrelevant dismissa
90 Post contains links PPVRA : There is a VERY strong and undeniable correlation. Buffett is a political hack, he has an agenda. History has shown Buffett to be flat out wrong. You
91 StuckInCA : They also pay high taxes and have enormous social safety nets. Shall I presume you are all for those things as well?
92 PPVRA : Nope. They make up for it in other areas. Didn't say they were perfect. ps: note that Norway and Sweden are only 8-9 points behind the US in that ran
93 AGM100 : Exactly the opposite of the Krupp model . More small medium size companies forming a strong foundation ... not huge corporations who oppress rights a
94 D L X : Because EVERY rich guy needs to pay more, and you and I both know that the vast majority will not unless compelled. Of course, you know that. Your ar
95 N867DA : Go around those countries and tell them they'll be much happier with the horrible shackles of a proper safety net for their society. See how many peo
96 NIKV69 : Neither is Rush but they both carry huge political weight and usually do things and say things to further a political agenda.
97 Post contains images Mir : On Page 2 of that article: Update: and of course how embarassing this is. I’ve just realised that Berkshire Hathaway doesn’t in fact pay a divide
98 D L X : Seriously Nick? Rush's occupation is as a political commentator. Buffett's occupation is a financial investor. Do you really want to make THAT compar
99 BMI727 : Retirement has never been a right. You get to retire by working hard while saving and investing money. You mean keep theirs. And the nation seems to
100 NIKV69 : So? Doesn't matter if they make hats with feathers in them. When they talk they sway votes. You can't help but make it, if you can't accept the fact
101 Mir : Rush's job is to sway votes. Can't say the same about Buffett. -Mir
102 san747 : Ummm, what you said was exactly what I was arguing. I am very well aware they have the most free labor market in the planet. That's what I was trying
103 PPVRA : That's not all he says: So it is still true that his ignoring of the corporate income tax is how he gets to his numbers. The thread evolved beyond th
104 AGM100 : Define those basic needs please . You will find that in order for politicans to win votes , your basic needs list will grow year after year. Food ...
105 NIKV69 : He tries but at this point the "tax those evil rich people more" thing is fading fast. He is a Obama supporter and will do anything legal to get him
106 StuckInCA : I'll turn it around on you. What do you think that society should provide for people who, for one reason or another, are unable to get it done on the
107 Mir : Which, as I mentioned, falls flat because it assumes that Buffett is not declaring his income as carried interest, when Buffett stated than he is. Bu
108 N867DA : The nation worked pretty damn hard to give you the resources to earn yours. Infrastructure, public universities, Pell Grants...sounds like when it's
109 BMI727 : No, those are things the government should be doing. Infrastructure (ever try and build your own airport?), education (that's your welfare right ther
110 D L X : You simply cannot resist the straw man arguments. No one said the article was not political. PPVRA made the strange comment that Buffett was a politi
111 Post contains links NIKV69 : What are you talking about? Stop the deflection with the fancy pro left soundbites. The argument is valid. Semantics, he is injecting himself into a
112 N867DA : So what happens to people who are poor or too old? Are you comfortable with the idea of millions of people working until the day before they die of o
113 bhill : "Today, in psychology, narcissistic personality disorder is a mental illness characterized by a lack of empathy, a willingness to exploit others, and
114 StuckInCA : So if by bad fortune someone is in a position where they have nothing, what do you envision them doing? Crawling into the street to die?
115 Aaron747 : You're pretty much right, but again, would have far more credibility if you've any life experience to speak of. Man did that hit the nail on the head
116 Flighty : Young people have a say in this too. They are being asked to pay bills (to baby boomer capitalists) on behalf of other baby boomers. We should hear m
117 StuckInCA : I agree with this but for someone 16 - 20 years old to comment on retirement is pretty hollow. Just like it's hollow for someone who's never had a se
118 Post contains links NIKV69 : Even though her run is basically over now Michelle Bachmann still getting in some zingers. Here she tells Buffet to write a check. Got to love it. htt
119 BMI727 : They work or rely on charities or family. I'd appreciate if they stayed on the sidewalk instead. Well old farts have been throwing my generation's mo
120 StuckInCA : It was a serious question. If that's your serious answer then you're a pretty cold person. And ignoring problems can lead to worse problems. Preventa
121 PPVRA : This age group (early twenties) is right at the start of the time you should be: 1. Paying off college debt. 2. Putting as much as you possibly can i
122 MCOGVADCA : Again, Ken777 is on the money. My advocacy of the repeal of the Bush tax cuts is not some sort of welfare redistribution; our country has myriad prob
123 PPVRA : Like I said, big government. The larger the government the more like sub-Saharan Africa you get. Unless you go the way of Botswana. Check out how wel
124 MCOGVADCA : I went to Botswana last summer; it's a fantastic story. Unfortunately, most Africanists agree that proximity to South Africa, ethnic homogeneity (Set
125 Mir : All the more reason that people like Buffett should pay more so that we don't have to pay as much. -Mir
126 ltbewr : I think other factors with Buffett and some other high wealth/income persons supporting higher taxes on them are in play here. By agreeing to some inc
127 BMI727 : Well hitting a dead body could do serious damage to a car. Besides, aren't there more pleasant places to die? Must they cause a nuisance? Sure there
128 MCOGVADCA : In principal, I agree with you. Current macroeconomic factors unfortunately would render a number of people in truly dire straits if we were to imple
129 MCOGVADCA : No, they're not! Only hedge-fund managers and the CEOs of AIG and C benefit! That's how dividends work! /facepalm, and good point with company folk,
130 san747 : StuckinCA, don't respond to this statement- he's trolling you.
131 Ken777 : Look around at the infrastructure that has been put in place for your generations. Little things like roads, bridges, airports. And some fairly moder
132 MCOGVADCA : For me, the Republican Party does not have a single viable candidate. Bachmann is widely regarded as a nutjob by independents; Perry has major skelet
133 NIKV69 : You haven't seen the polls lately. Why? He is right. Bernanke is a tool land needs to stop printing money. Who cares how he said it. I don't want a H
134 dxing : Perhaps Mr. Buffet would be willing to change how he is paid? As was noted much earlier he is paid in stock options. Because of that he now enjoys a
135 MCOGVADCA : Please note that this reductionist retort has been refuted multiple times in this thread.
136 NZ1 : Due the amount of insults, personal attacks; and the way this thread drifts on and off topic, it is time to lock it up. NZ1 Forum Moderator
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