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Famine Crisis Declared In Somalia  
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1478 times:

Children and families in southern Somalia are in absolutely dire straits due to the burgeoning combination of severe drought and food shortages wrought by the instability in the Islamist al-Shabab "government". The UN has officially declared famine in the region as of yesterday, which is defined as emergency conditions of food supply affecting health of children and adults in potentially lethal ways. As if these al-Shabab people weren't bad enough with the piracy and radical Islamism, despite the conditions they continue to recruit kids as young as 8 to serve in their ad-hoc child militias. I rarely post on this kind of topic, but this situation is so atrocious it demands immediate attention. In a recent visit from the UK's state secretary for international development, it was reported that up to 400,000 children could be at risk of starvation induced death in the next several months. The west already screwed the pooch with the disaster in Rwanda, are we ready to let our governments repeat history this time in Somalia?

The UK Secretary of State for International Development, Andrew Mitchell, said the response by many European and developed countries to the crisis in the Horn of Africa had been "derisory and dangerously inadequate".

"The fact that a famine has been declared shows just how grave the situation has become. It is time for the world to help," he said.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14211905

Times are tough to be sure, but a lot of us who are posting on here are most likely employed, have no trouble paying the bills, and our kids are fed. It doesn't take much in the way of donations to get rice and sweet potatoes to the kids in this region. I wasn't involved with these issues much before having children, but since becoming a parent I can't imagine the agony of being unable to provide the very basics for the children you love. Whatever mistakes people have made in whatever conditions they inhabit, nobody deserves to watch their young die in their arms!

Bono's humanitarian group, One.org, has posted a detailed study of the countries who are leading and lagging in strict food aid monies to the Horn of Africa. The US, UK, and Canada are leading the pack, with several prominent European nations and the Gulf States clearly lagging behind: I just made another donation - it's time to act!

http://www.one.org/international/blo...-efforts-which-are-lagging-behind/


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6661 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1457 times:

I'll give no donation to any nation that is run by militant tribal Islamists. I feel genuine compassion for the people suffering, but my charitable contributions can make more of a difference elsewhere. Somalia is burning itself to the ground and it's part and parcel of a vile pathology that creates nothing, destroys everything.




/Blackhawk Down


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1454 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
but this situation is so atrocious it demands immediate attention

Agreed...but how? We can send food, but it will be intercepted. We can send the military, but 1993 kicked our asses.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
are we ready to let our governments repeat history this time in Somalia?

You can compare Rwanda to Somalia in that we must act, but you must also compare Somalia to Somalia in why many places may be hesitant to. 23 soldiers from 3 countries were killed, in addition to wounded and captured, and that's something I bet every leader thinks of when they think of helping Somalia.


User currently offlinesq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1626 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1411 times:

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org...8&cat=press-release&ref=news-index

Donate to organizations such as Doctors Without Borders (politically independent and neutral) or other non-profits doing important work in locations in border areas in Kenya such as the Dadaab Refugee Camp (now by far the world's largest camp population wise) if you have trepidations about sending money into Somalia. These organizations are working tirelessly to treat severely malnourished youth coming in from Somalia as well as providing medical care for refugees making the dangerous and arduous trek in from Somalia.



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10726 posts, RR: 38
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

There has to be Somalian money in Swiss banks from local wealthies, government leaders, local corruption or other.

If this is the case, why not seize that money, convert it into food and feed these poor people?

Just a thought.

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15468 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1391 times:

There are plenty of poor people who are less likely to shoot at soldiers and aid workers, so maybe we should focus on them.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
If this is the case, why not seize that money, convert it into food and feed these poor people?

Because it's their money?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
Because it's their money?

Silly BMI - don't you know by now that if anyone is rich it's because he exploited poor people?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 7951 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1346 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
Because it's their money?

I don't care one bit about seizing funds from warlords and/or Islamist pirates. Not sure why you do.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
There are plenty of poor people who are less likely to shoot at soldiers and aid workers

This displays a clear lack of understanding of what's happening on the ground there. There are massive waves of refugees who have sought to escape and surely not all of the 400K children in the most immediate danger are armed members of militias.

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 3):
Donate to organizations such as Doctors Without Borders (politically independent and neutral) or other non-profits doing important work in locations in border areas in Kenya such as the Dadaab Refugee Camp (now by far the world's largest camp population wise) if you have trepidations about sending money into Somalia.

That's exactly what I did - I donated to the Japanese medical aid organization, JICA.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15468 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1331 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
I don't care one bit about seizing funds from warlords and/or Islamist pirates

That's a job for intelligence and law enforcement agencies and has little to do with any humanitarian situation. Simply taking money from the overseas accounts of wealthy Somalians isn't right.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
There are massive waves of refugees who have sought to escape and surely not all of the 400K children in the most immediate danger are armed members of militias.

Oh well. We are talking about spending money we don't really have to help people who don't really like us. We've done enough nation building for a while.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21091 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1328 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
The west already screwed the pooch with the disaster in Rwanda, are we ready to let our governments repeat history this time in Somalia?

Sadly, I think we're very ready.

Quoting slider (Reply 1):
I'll give no donation to any nation that is run by militant tribal Islamists.

I wouldn't give to militant tribal Islamists either, but those aren't who are suffering in Somalia.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Silly BMI - don't you know by now that if anyone is rich it's because he exploited poor people?

Actually, very few people who are rich got that way by letting people literally starve. I've got no problem with freezing or seizing the foreign assets of people (as Aaron said, pirates and warlords) who show that level of disregard for human life. We're not talking about Verizon executives asking for wage and benefit concessions here - this is on a whole other scale.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
surely not all of the 400K children in the most immediate danger are armed members of militias.

And that's assuming that all the children who are members of militias are voluntary members. Which I can pretty much guarantee isn't the case.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5477 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1316 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
The west already screwed the pooch with the disaster in Rwanda, are we ready to let our governments repeat history this time in Somalia?

Sadly, I think we're very ready.

I wholeheartedly agree there...

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
Quoting slider (Reply 1):
I'll give no donation to any nation that is run by militant tribal Islamists.

I wouldn't give to militant tribal Islamists either, but those aren't who are suffering in Somalia.

Yep, and let me tell you..Somalia is like say.... Juarez, Mexico with no 'government at all' anywhere to be seen multiplied by a steroid factor of 10. Nothing moves in the country with the Warlords nod.

In a situation, like that there are only two choices.

1) Pick a favorite Warlord, make him the nations leader followed by wiping out all shreds of competing warlords.
(and 10-20 years later..support his overthrow). This done with OAU blessing of course - which won't happen.

2) Pay off all the Warlords, gain access 'to feed the hungry' which = greater Warlord subjects in numbers and greater pool from which they can recruit in the future. The endless death spiral approach.


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1647 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1309 times:

That is the problem I find it hard to find sympathy for Somalia when we have constant hijackings of commercial ships by Somalis as well as Blackhawk down. Now I realize the starving children are not responsible but fact is there is not a real way to help the truly needy without it finding its way to the thugs. Like others have said there are plenty of charities that need our money right here in the US as shameful as that is it is the truth. My money goes to animal charities and St Jude right here in this country who really need it too. The US already gives way too much of our taxpayer money in humanitarian aid sadly most of which most likely goes to dictators and not to those who need it.


NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days ago) and read 1265 times:

Have any members from the religion of peace made any charitable donations to help these starving people in the Islamic state of Somalia?
The 3rd pillar in Islam is charitable giving. Also known as 'zakat' and according to the qur'an, charitable giving is compulsory.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 2 days ago) and read 1258 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 1):
I'll give no donation to any nation that is run by militant tribal Islamists. I feel genuine compassion for the people suffering, but my charitable contributions can make more of a difference elsewhere. Somalia is burning itself to the ground and it's part and parcel of a vile pathology that creates nothing, destroys everything.

Bravo, as politically incorrect as this it rings very true.

Quoting Aaron747 (Thread starter):
The west already screwed the pooch with the disaster in Rwanda,

Why does every thread have to contain a dig at the US? I find it amazing how we can't be the worlds policeman and then can be depending on the incident. If you want to send money go ahead and send money. It's noble but I don't think we need to be made to feel guilty if we don't because of what happened in another country.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 4):
If this is the case, why not seize that money, convert it into food and feed these poor people?

Well because without killing the people in power who are corrupt and won't let the aid reach the people it's a waste.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 7):
I don't care one bit about seizing funds from warlords and/or Islamist pirates. Not sure why you do.

It's the only way for them to survive because I am sure not sending a dime and any money sent is a waste. See Haiti. You want change the extemists have to go and since this doesn't seem to ever happen it's a dog chasing it's tail.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
Oh well. We are talking about spending money we don't really have to help people who don't really like us. We've done enough nation building for a while

Yep time to not thump our chests for awhile. Let the people take over their own country and the ill gotten gains the people hijacking ships have.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 10):
1) Pick a favorite Warlord, make him the nations leader followed by wiping out all shreds of competing warlords.
(and 10-20 years later..support his overthrow). This done with OAU blessing of course - which won't happen.

Just what we need another Khadaffi. Are you kidding?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 10):
2) Pay off all the Warlords, gain access 'to feed the hungry' which = greater Warlord subjects in numbers and greater pool from which they can recruit in the future. The endless death spiral approach.

Pay them with what? Who?

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 11):
That is the problem I find it hard to find sympathy for Somalia when we have constant hijackings of commercial ships by Somalis as well as Blackhawk down. Now I realize the starving children are not responsible but fact is there is not a real way to help the truly needy without it finding its way to the thugs. Like others have said there are plenty of charities that need our money right here in the US as shameful as that is it is the truth. My money goes to animal charities and St Jude right here in this country who really need it too. The US already gives way too much of our taxpayer money in humanitarian aid sadly most of which most likely goes to dictators and not to those who need it.

  


User currently offlineEmirates773ER From Pakistan, joined Jun 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1233 times:

http://www.inewsone.com/2011/08/20/u...eaches-out-to-famine-victims/70035

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displaya..._August500.xml&section=theuae&col=

http://www.inewsone.com/2011/08/14/u...f-food-to-famine-hit-somalia/68725

http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topic...sion=1&template_id=37&parent_id=17

http://www.ennaharonline.com/en/international/7081.html

Nearly 350 million have been donated by the OIC with a pledge of 500 million to be full filled. Clearly the islamic countries are lagging behind  



The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1194 times:

The situation is also becoming increasingly complicated in Dadaab, Kenya, where one of the largest refugee camps for fleeing Somalis is. The main camp there has a population that is four times larger than its capacity. Last year the average monthly influx of Somalis into the camp was of 5000, whereas in June 2011 alone it was of 30,000. At the moment, the UN is still awaiting fund consolidation to build a new complex in Dadaab that will only be able to hold 40,000 people. As of now, there are already 70,000 people, the vast majority being Somalis, living outside the existing Dadaab complex. This is becoming very serious indeed.

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 11):
I find it hard to find sympathy for Somalia when we have constant hijackings of commercial ships by Somalis as well as Blackhawk down.

You cannot possibly be serious.

Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1188 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 15):
You cannot possibly be serious.

Why not, though not a popular stance even the people in Somalia that aren't pirates hate us. Funny how when situations become dire we then become everyone's daddy.


User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1182 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
even the people in Somalia that aren't pirates hate us.

I have absolutely no doubt that you have actually employed a reputable research company to conduct a survey that proves your point of view. I welcome your posting a link to the results that prove that starving children hate people that in all probability they have never heard of.

It is likely that many people could not care less about where people are from and care more about what, if anything, they are doing to make life worse or better. I have no evidence whatsoever, but I suspect that a hungry child will not discriminate when food is offered. You have to be "grown up" and "mature" to do that.


User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1180 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
the people in Somalia that aren't pirates hate us

Placing it in your terms, most of the people in Somalia who aren't pirates don't know who or what you are. For the worst of reasons, hatred isn't a sentiment the average Somali is occupied with right now.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
Funny how when situations become dire we then become everyone's daddy.

How, pray tell, do you figure that one out?

Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1171 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 18):
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 16):
Funny how when situations become dire we then become everyone's daddy.

How, pray tell, do you figure that one out?

Because they inexplicably don't want to give their ressources away to other nations but rather use them to their own benefit, but now - the audacity - that they are hungry the US is suddenly a welcome guest.

Honestly, when you see a person die in front of you - or as in this case over 12 million people - and you turn them the cold shoulder because they can't pay for it, you are lacking very basic intrinsic human sentiments.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1164 times:

Quoting Quokka (Reply 17):
I have absolutely no doubt that you have actually employed a reputable research company to conduct a survey that proves your point of view. I welcome your posting a link to the results that prove that starving children hate people that in all probability they have never heard of.
http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/20...-marine-dragged-through-mogadishu/

Quoting Quokka (Reply 17):
It is likely that many people could not care less about where people are from and care more about what, if anything, they are doing to make life worse or better. I have no evidence whatsoever, but I suspect that a hungry child will not discriminate when food is offered. You have to be "grown up" and "mature" to do that.

Yep, it's so nice of their fellow countryman who have milions in swag to ignore them and even prevent any aid from reaching them. Real mature huh?

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 18):
Placing it in your terms, most of the people in Somalia who aren't pirates don't know who or what you are. For the worst of reasons, hatred isn't a sentiment the average Somali is occupied with right now.

Like I said when times are dire we have to be daddy. Well like I said if you would like to donate go right ahead. I am sick of watching money just go to waste like in Haiti. We gave them Billions and where are they?


User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1155 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Quoting Quokka (Reply 17):
I have absolutely no doubt that you have actually employed a reputable research company to conduct a survey that proves your point of view. I welcome your posting a link to the results that prove that starving children hate people that in all probability they have never heard of.
http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/20...ishu/

That's like declaring war on America over Abu Ghraib.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Yep, it's so nice of their fellow countryman who have milions in swag to ignore them and even prevent any aid from reaching them. Real mature huh?

Which is why bank accounts should be seized and the money should be used to help the people of Somalia. A proposition rejected by certain members of this board because it's ''their'' money.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 18):
Placing it in your terms, most of the people in Somalia who aren't pirates don't know who or what you are. For the worst of reasons, hatred isn't a sentiment the average Somali is occupied with right now.

Like I said when times are dire we have to be daddy. Well like I said if you would like to donate go right ahead. I am sick of watching money just go to waste like in Haiti. We gave them Billions and where are they?

Or where would they be, without the billions. Much of the money is lost in corruption and bad organization. But it's up to you whose fund you want to support, whom you personally deem capable of taking your money and using and not wasting it. Not every organization will squander the money.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineQuokka From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1153 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Yep, it's so nice of their fellow countryman who have millions in swag to ignore them and even prevent any aid from reaching them. Real mature huh?

Sadly, that occurs in most countries. The well-to-do will always shrug their shoulders and say that it nothing to do with me. In the meantime real people suffer because others couldn't care less. Children really do not care who gives them food until they learn from adults that there is a catch. Then they become suspicious. Experience teaches them who is and who is not to be trusted. All too often the answer is no-one.

That is what makes them "mature". The idea that you can trust no-one because no-one gives a shit and they are only in it for what they can get out of it. So, look after number one and forget about the rest. That's maturity the way a lot of people see it and actually believe it is the best way.


User currently offlineNIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

Quoting something (Reply 21):
Which is why bank accounts should be seized and the money should be used to help the people of Somalia. A proposition rejected by certain members of this board because it's ''their'' money.

Not me, let the people of Somalia do it. It's ill gotten gains and they have stood in the way of aid reaching the people. Go for it.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21091 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1130 times:

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 20):
Quoting Quokka (Reply 17):
I have absolutely no doubt that you have actually employed a reputable research company to conduct a survey that proves your point of view. I welcome your posting a link to the results that prove that starving children hate people that in all probability they have never heard of.
http://iconicphotos.wordpress.com/20...-marine-dragged-through-mogadishu/

That was 20 years ago. Things change.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
let the people of Somalia do it. It's ill gotten gains and they have stood in the way of aid reaching the people. Go for it.

If there's any of that money in US banks, the Somalis can't do anything about it. We can. And should.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
25 Post contains images NIKV69 : Oh yea I can just tell. I seriously doubt any of that money is in US banks.
26 luckyone : Probably exactly where they are anyway. There's a reason their neighbors the DR have required visas for Haitian passport-holders for many years. The
27 Speedbird741 : I don't suppose you read the article in full to understand who was dragging the soldier through the street. This has nothing to do with the famine cr
28 Dreadnought : I'll be totally honest here. Somalia is one of those countries that is completely screwed. They don't have much in the area of resources, and to top i
29 NIKV69 : Of course it doesn't but they still hate us until of course they need us. You are right sending a ton of money that will not do anything and probably
30 Mir : Probably not, but substitute some of the European countries and the principle remains the same. I wouldn't want to have military action either - as y
31 Speedbird741 : Once more. The average Somali does not know who or what you are. We are not discussing about a population comprised of militant groups and their foll
32 Dreadnought : Which won't help anything as the food will be taken by the warlords, sold for cash and the cash used to buy weapons. It's been like that for the past
33 Post contains images Superfly : LOL! ...but we're all overdue for another who's, who celebrity line up benefit song. I outlined a Sharia Law compliant solution in reply #12.
34 slider : Thank you. It's time for an unvarnished discussion about this really, free from PC gibberish. The more things change, the more they stay the same...
35 YVRLTN : Two points 1) "Western" involvement in Libya was due to "suffering of civilians". There is a far greater scale of suffering of civilians in Somalia t
36 BMI727 : You have to make the distinction between two aspects. We can and should basically ignore a famine in a place that is basically shady part of the worl
37 stratosphere : Yep I am sure thats part of the reason. But FedEx just sent a 777 with tons of food on behalf of UNICEF to Nairobi to be trucked to Somalia this week
38 Superfly : Last time I checked, Mercedes, BMWs, Jaguar, Audi, Toyota, Honda and all other brands of cars runs on the same fuel. Nigeria is in Africa and they ha
39 Post contains images NIKV69 : Yes we need much more of this in fact. Depends on the situation but in Somalia the situation is so bad with Pirates vowing to hijack any aid it would
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