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Obama And Labor Dept Protect Illegal Workers.  
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1682 times:
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This is disgusting. How many of you are still looking for work? Thank the President and the Labor Department.   

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...greements-protect-illegal-workers/

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8948 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1651 times:

Watch yo' mouth, fx, don't you know the man is an economic genius? Solyndra, the California-based solar tech outfit Obama secured over a half-billion dollars in stimulus funds, has shut its doors. A brilliant coup! It cost him not a dime (who care about taxpayer funds anyway), but got him over $150K in campaign donations from just 2 of Solyndra's backers.

$20 million in taxpayer funds to "weatherize" homes in Washington. 14 administrator jobs created to oversee the weatherization of three (3) homes. Let's say 10 workers were involved in actually doing the work, that's $830,000 per person!, and nearly $7 million per house. Now THAT is a high quality job! Brilliant!

And with his Dream Act via Regulation policy, he is encouraging more people to come over the border. C'mon in! If someone does not treat you as a full citizen, you can complain about him, file suit, and even get a back-dated work permit! Why didn't we think of that? Our unemployment is so low right now that of course we need to encourage a labor black market.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1649 times:

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
How many of you are still looking for work?

Uh huh. And how many of you would work at Taco Bell, scrub bar-room floors, or really anything for minimum wage  


The answer: almost nobody. Which is the same reason Bush tried to give all the illegals citizenship before Texas through San Diego all revolted.

NS


User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7359 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1645 times:
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Quoting gigneil (Reply 2):
Uh huh. And how many of you would work at Taco Bell, scrub bar-room floors, or really anything for minimum wage

Not just Taco Bell. Who do you think is making all the recent Wall Street decisions? Maybe Obama is gonna talk about this when Boehner lets him give his job speech. I won't hold my breath.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8948 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1638 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 2):
Uh huh. And how many of you would work at Taco Bell, scrub bar-room floors, or really anything for minimum wage

Dude! We've all done it! When I was a teenager, I sacked groceries, cleared brush, poured concrete, washed dishes, cleaned bathrooms and food preparation areas in a deli, and stacked store shelves, all for minimum wage - $3.25 at the time. We've (most) all been there. Those are normal, entry level jobs for teens who want to earn a little money for gas and to take a girl out on a date once in a while.

Now teen unemployment is at 25% - in some places as high as 50%. The labor force is already here.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinesan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4965 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
This is disgusting.

Yeah, we all know illegal immigrants aren't people anyway. Why should we give them any sort of protections?  

I've never understood the "they took awr jobs!" argument. It's not like jobs are just hanging there of a tree to be "taken." The jobs are being GIVEN to them illegally and for one obvious reason that no one ever seems to realize- they are willing to work harder for less money.

If I had a nickel for every conservative poster on this board who says we've priced ourselves out of the marketplace with unions and their demands for reasonable wages and benefits that cause companies to outsource labor overseas, and that we shouldn't blame the companies for employing the much cheaper labor, I'd be chillin' with Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerburg right now.

The situation with illegal immigrant labor in this country is exactly the same in every way. Conservatives should be praising American employers for being so savvy in their cost-saving measures!

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Those are normal, entry level jobs for teens who want to earn a little money for gas and to take a girl out on a date once in a while.

Agreed. I've had a job or two like that myself. But would an adult, maybe an out-of-work professional do those kinds of jobs? Until that answer becomes yes, the argument that immigrants are "taking" our jobs is a red herring. The reality of the situation is they are being GIVEN jobs we have demonstrated (by our inaction) that we don't want.

Quoting fxramper (Reply 3):

Not just Taco Bell. Who do you think is making all the recent Wall Street decisions?

Ummm, probably US citizens? What does that mean?



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40065 posts, RR: 74
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 2):
Uh huh. And how many of you would work at Taco Bell, scrub bar-room floors, or really anything for minimum wage
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Dude! We've all done it! When I was a teenager, I sacked groceries, cleared brush, poured concrete, washed dishes, cleaned bathrooms and food preparation areas in a deli, and stacked store shelves, all for minimum wage - $3.25 at the time. We've (most) all been there. Those are normal, entry level jobs for teens who want to earn a little money for gas and to take a girl out on a date once in a while.

Now teen unemployment is at 25% - in some places as high as 50%. The labor force is already here.

  
Spot on! My first job was at Taco Bell when I was in high school.
I have friends & relatives that have children that are now teenagers and none of them have jobs. The jobs that we had as teenagers are no long available for teenagers today. You go to a fast food restaurant and its most likely illegals and sadly, senior citizens.

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):

To make matters worse, Obama and his attorney general Eric Holder is suing as many states as possible if they enforce the federal immigration laws that the federal government refuses to enforce. It's so blatantly obvious that Obama and his people has contempt for the American people.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11793 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1589 times:

Quoting san747 (Reply 5):
I've never understood the "they took awr jobs!" argument. It's not like jobs are just hanging there of a tree to be "taken." The jobs are being GIVEN to them illegally and for one obvious reason that no one ever seems to realize- they are willing to work harder for less money.

It is pure capitalism at is best! Get the most labor for the lowest price. It is what the right-wing wants EXACTLY and they are screaming about how horrible it is. Do they really want to pay people $10 an hour or more and possibly benefits? No. That goes against capitalism. Cheap labor. That is why they love exporting jobs to China, Indonesia, India, and MEXICO! If right-wingers hate the "illegals" taking our jobs, go after the real enemy: CORPORATIONS!!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offline2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8786 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1574 times:

How come illegal immigration is now a big issue now that Obama is the president? This is a selective outrage at this administration. Where was the outrage at Bush was in office or when Reagan granted amnesty?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
It's so blatantly obvious that Obama and his people has contempt for the American people.

Ran out of good arguments?



"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40065 posts, RR: 74
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1563 times:

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 8):
How come illegal immigration is now a big issue now that Obama is the president? This is a selective outrage at this administration. Where was the outrage at Bush was in office or when Reagan granted amnesty?

It's been an ongoing issue for over 20 years.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8948 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1529 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 7):
It is pure capitalism at is best! Get the most labor for the lowest price. It is what the right-wing wants EXACTLY and they are screaming about how horrible it is. Do they really want to pay people $10 an hour or more and possibly benefits? No. That goes against capitalism. Cheap labor. That is why they love exporting jobs to China, Indonesia, India, and MEXICO! If right-wingers hate the "illegals" taking our jobs, go after the real enemy: CORPORATIONS!!

Huuu boy.  

A capitalist will pay the lowest price AVAILABLE. Let's say there was no illegal immigrant problem, that the border was effectively shut down. There would be a relative shortage of labor available for those entry-level jobs, and they will not be able to find as many people willing to work for $5-7 per hour (if any). The cost will have to come up a bit until an equilibrium is reached.

And guess what - we capitalists don't mind! If that was the situation, we would adapt - we might have to bump up the price of what we are selling, but that's OK because on average the population is getting better wages.

Don't you find it mildly ironic that it is the right (evil capitalists) that wants to stop illegal immigration and undermining of our labor market, and it is the left that wants as many poor people as possible in the country to create a cheap labor glut, keeping unemployment in that sector high and wages low? When you think about it philosophically, you understand immediately why the left does that, but I doubt you'll get it.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6729 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1522 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
And guess what - we capitalists don't mind! If that was the situation, we would adapt - we might have to bump up the price of what we are selling, but that's OK because on average the population is getting better wages.

It's funny, conservatives scream about unionized labor increasing costs and that companies can't tolerate higher wages. Yet, here you claim that capitalists can adapt to higher wages and labor costs. So which is it?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
Don't you find it mildly ironic that it is the right (evil capitalists) that wants to stop illegal immigration and undermining of our labor market

Except the right actively supports companies shipping jobs overseas to children who work in sweat shops making far less than $1/hr.


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6162 posts, RR: 29
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1515 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Dude! We've all done it! When I was a teenager, I sacked groceries, cleared brush, poured concrete, washed dishes, cleaned bathrooms and food preparation areas in a deli, and stacked store shelves, all for minimum wage - $3.25 at the time. We've (most) all been there. Those are normal, entry level jobs for teens who want to earn a little money for gas and to take a girl out on a date once in a while.


I worked at McDonalds. It sucked. I thought that working at a grocery store would be better and it REALLY sucked. I went back to McDonalds. I did a bunch of crappy jobs when I was young. I was even replaced by illegals once. I was being paid minimum wage at a green house (mom and pop kind of place) and one day we were told we were being replaced by people who would work for less money. I assumed they were illegals because they were working for less than minimum wage and none of them spoke English.

Quoting san747 (Reply 5):
But would an adult, maybe an out-of-work professional do those kinds of jobs? Until that answer becomes yes, the argument that immigrants are "taking" our jobs is a red herring. The reality of the situation is they are being GIVEN jobs we have demonstrated (by our inaction) that we don't want.

When a place is paying you below minimum wage and most likely under the table you are not likely to take the job if you are legit. If you are an illegal who are you going to complain to?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 7):
If right-wingers hate the "illegals" taking our jobs, go after the real enemy: CORPORATIONS!!


The business that I have known of that hire illegals are not large corporations they are small "mom and pop" places that fly under the radar so to speak. I am sure some big businesses involved to, but they alone are not the only guilty party.

Over the last 11 years I have been asking my students how many of them work and the number gets fewer and fewer. My observation is that many of the students have the mindset that they worth more than they are, they want to be paid top wages, but they have no work experience. I tell them you have to start at the bottom and work your way up.
Three years ago I had a kid moan and groan that he couldn't find a job. I asked him if he tried the McDonalds up the street. He said that he wouldn't work in a fast food place. I said "I worked at McDonalds when I was your age; are you saying you are better than me". He got a job at the McDonalds. He is still there and is working his way through college. He always has a smile on his face when I stop in there.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
You go to a fast food restaurant and its most likely illegals and sadly, senior citizens.


In the heartland of America you don't see that too often.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2750 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

Quoting fxramper (Thread starter):
This is disgusting. How many of you are still looking for work?



You must be a racist by starting this post....

Quoting gigneil (Reply 2):
Uh huh. And how many of you would work at Taco Bell, scrub bar-room floors, or really anything for minimum wage



This argument is old and tiring..How many people on unemployment will take these jobs if they had a choice..The available job or no unemployment. We would kill two birds with one stone. Lower unemployment and the the removing of the cost of supporting the illegals. Would save us Billions.

Quoting san747 (Reply 5):
Yeah, we all know illegal immigrants aren't people anyway. Why should we give them any sort of protections?



We will protect them all the way back to their country of origin where they can then attempt to come here by legal means.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 7):
It is pure capitalism at is best! Get the most labor for the lowest price. It is what the right-wing wants EXACTLY and they are screaming about how horrible it is.



By following the laws of this country...

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 8):
How come illegal immigration is now a big issue now that Obama is the president? This is a selective outrage at this administration. Where was the outrage at Bush was in office or when Reagan granted amnesty



Where have you been??? Who do you think stopped Bush from passing an amnesty bill with Sen Shamnesty Graham.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
Huuu boy.

A capitalist will pay the lowest price AVAILABLE.



Good post


So if the feds do not follow the laws of the land that are on the books now why then should any of us follow any rules. Why should I not be able to cheat on my taxes or invade my neighbors property and build an extension on it. After all we are all entitled on this planet right?? We are all entitled to plunder the good ole USA any way we want to. So why should any of us Follow them. Let us all start making our own interpretation to the laws and have a free for all. Let us let every President do whatever the hell they want and pass little obscure regulations in the middle of the night. I cannot even believe for a minute that this a left or a right issue but it is. it is about vote pandering and cheap slave labor...disgusting.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8948 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):

It's funny, conservatives scream about unionized labor increasing costs and that companies can't tolerate higher wages. Yet, here you claim that capitalists can adapt to higher wages and labor costs. So which is it?

If the MARKET demands higher wages, because of supply and demand, that's fine. But when externalities force an increase in wages that is not justified by supply and demand (such as union demands to be paid $30/hour when there are thousands who would sign up for $25), that results in higher unemployment. That's the way the machine works.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 11):
Except the right actively supports companies shipping jobs overseas to children who work in sweat shops making far less than $1/hr.

Business is business. When you operate a single business, you are competing with others in your industry and have a fiduciary responsibility to your shareholders to use every means at your disposal to navigate among the various options available to you to keep your costs competitive, within an industry which you do not control on a macro level. Whether you are a right-leaning company like Gibson, or a left-leaning company like GE, you do what you have to do within the limits of what's allowable. GE has been a rabid Obama-supporter, and has shipped out to China some 25% of it's US employee base in the past 10 years. Gibson got shut down by the Federal government, ironically, for having raw materials brought in from India unprocessed, so that they could do the finishing work using American workers. What GE did was fine under this administration - indeed Obama named him chairman of the Council on Jobs and Competitiveness and of the President's Economic Recovery Advisory Board. How does that fit in with your statement?

If I headed up a company like GE, I would love to be able to announce that I will not outsource any business to China. They are our economic rivals, and giving China our manufacturing base with the accompanying knowledge transfer) is no different than if Toyota hired Ford to build the Prius, or if Coca-Cola asked PepsiCo to manufacture Coke's syrup. It's just dumb. I might buy and sell goods with China, but my manufacturing would stay in my pocket. But guess what - if I did that, I would be a a cost disadvantage to my competitors. Maybe I can convince my customers that my product is worth the extra cost, because of its American original and high quality, like Gibson did. That would be great if it worked, it's not always easy to do.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 12):
The business that I have known of that hire illegals are not large corporations they are small "mom and pop" places that fly under the radar so to speak. I am sure some big businesses involved to, but they alone are not the only guilty party.

You are probably very right on that score. Personally all the illegals I've known were employed by small business or simply private individuals.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 12):
Three years ago I had a kid moan and groan that he couldn't find a job. I asked him if he tried the McDonalds up the street. He said that he wouldn't work in a fast food place. I said "I worked at McDonalds when I was your age; are you saying you are better than me". He got a job at the McDonalds. He is still there and is working his way through college. He always has a smile on his face when I stop in there.

Congrats on having been able to nudge this kid in the right direction and teach him something real.

The first time I went 'on-the'clock', earning $3.25 an hour, by the end of the first day I had earned maybe $20, I remember thinking, "holy crap that's hard work!" You learn the value of a dollar. It's not something that you just ask your parents for - it represents sweat. I remember very well my first day at the job (sacking groceries), hustling from lane to lane, running out to the parking lot to bring back shopping carts, running for price checks, and after a while, feeling tired like I might have been working all day, I looked at my watch and realized that I had only been working for an hour.

But guess what, I was happy for that job. That's what generated my car money and allowed me to go out on a date on occasion - and eventually get laid. The start of my sex life was that job. It also motivated me to keep in school, with the knowledge that I wanted a better paying job. Just that menial grocery sacking job showed me that other people in the store were earning more than me because they knew more - accounting, or management or a particular skill like the butcher. When I spent a summer clearing brush, pouring concrete and landscaping, the guy who owned the place was a wealthy businessman - He'd be on his porch drinking Bloody Marys while I sweated - I wanted to be like him - the guy with the money to hire other people to do the hard work, and for that I knew I needed to get educated.

I'm sure I'm not alone in this experience - probably every American older than 40 or 50 has had pretty much exactly that experience.

By screwing up teenagers' jobs prospects, by allowing the black market on low-skill labor, and seeing the rise in teenage unemployment, those lessons are now NOT being learned. I had an intern this summer - he left just 2 weeks ago. What a whiny little cuss he was. But by the end he started to understand the work needed to pay for the parties that he was constantly talking about. The problem is that he is already 21 years old. He should have learned that at 16!



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2750 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1475 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 14):
By screwing up teenagers' jobs prospects

Unemployment among teenagers is huge these days...And let us not forget the housing and roofing jobs that they are doing now. So that old they are doing jobs we will not do is crap.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6729 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1470 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 14):
But when externalities force an increase in wages that is not justified by supply and demand (such as union demands to be paid $30/hour when there are thousands who would sign up for $25), that results in higher unemployment.

Having national borders and laws preventing immigrants from entering the U.S. are externalities as well that have nothing to do with natural supply and demand and distort the labor market.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 14):
Business is business.

Then you should have no problem with businesses hiring illegal immigrants since as you say business is business.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8948 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1454 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 16):

Having national borders and laws preventing immigrants from entering the U.S. are externalities as well that have nothing to do with natural supply and demand and distort the labor market.

A nation cannot function if there is a sub-class of people who live outside the law, and cannot control immigration. Otherwise a perfectly good economy collapses if the crappy economy next door simply lets all its poor people go elsewhere. We have to be willing to do that within the country, like between states, but not for other countries. You sound like one of those 'No Borders' radicals.

Any system must operate, as freely as possible, within its own constraints (walls, if you like). You can do what you like within your own house, but you have to conform to certain rules when dealing with houses around you, and you must ask permission to enter someone else's house - and he is not required to let you in.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 16):
Then you should have no problem with businesses hiring illegal immigrants since as you say business is business.

If a law says that it is illegal, then it is illegal, and ALL businesses must be made to comply. The problem comes when some companies get away with doing something illegal when others try to comply with the law. Business does not mean a free-for-all. The most basic purpose of a government is to establish a level playing ground for everyone to play in, establish the rules of the game (especially the most important one - contract law), and umpires to catch and punish players who don't play by the rules.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6729 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1445 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
A nation cannot function if there is a sub-class of people who live outside the law, and cannot control immigration. Otherwise a perfectly good economy collapses if the crappy economy next door simply lets all its poor people go elsewhere. We have to be willing to do that within the country, like between states, but not for other countries.

I don't disagree, but my point still remains that it distorts the labor market just like unions do.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
You can do what you like within your own house, but you have to conform to certain rules when dealing with houses around you, and you must ask permission to enter someone else's house - and he is not required to let you in.

But apparently, my neighbor can spew pollution into my home since conservatives (like you) are constantly complaining about EPA regulations.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
The most basic purpose of a government is to establish a level playing ground for everyone to play in

But that's not really how conservatives want it to work. They want those with the most money to establish the playing field and that's exactly what we have seen.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11793 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1440 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 12):
The business that I have known of that hire illegals are not large corporations they are small "mom and pop" places that fly under the radar so to speak. I am sure some big businesses involved to, but they alone are not the only guilty party.

I actually prefer to shop at "mom and pop" stores. I have yet to see anyone suspected to be illegal working there. However, going into a Wal-Mart, Target, McDonalds, Taco Bell there are those who I would suspect are illegal. I managed a Taco Bell and I know they hired illegals. I was crew at McDonalds about the same time and I know they hired illegals.

Besides, "mom and pop" stores don't have the income to hire.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
Don't you find it mildly ironic that it is the right (evil capitalists) that wants to stop illegal immigration and undermining of our labor market, and it is the left that wants as many poor people as possible in the country to create a cheap labor glut, keeping unemployment in that sector high and wages low? When you think about it philosophically, you understand immediately why the left does that, but I doubt you'll get it.

Uhhh... what??? Democrats and progressives are ALWAYS calling for increases to minimum wage and try to get corporations to hire to lower unemployment. ALWAYS. Democrats are always trying to find ways to create jobs. Yet, when they send up any bills suggesting that, the right-wing starts screaming about "it costs too much" and "we don't want the government to get involved in people's lives." All the while de-regulating everything and allowing a few thousand people to sit on trillions of dollars not creating any jobs at all. But I doubt you'll get that.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineplanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3538 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1435 times:

Can we all at least agree on a few non-partisan facts here?

- Illegal immigrants have broken the law to come into this country.

- Many of them have jobs that other Americans aren't too keen on doing (picking fruit and vegetables for 12 hours a day, for instance)

- Many of them also have jobs that other Americans would do (construction, meat packing plants, etc.)

- Even though they have broken the law to come here, the majority come here for very American reasons (to actually start a better life for their families, to make their families back home in Mexico more prosperous, etc.)

- American businesses are complicit in this illegal action, as they actually hire this source of illegal labor.

- Illegal immigrants are human beings too, and therefore do not deserve to be taken advantage of by the businesses who hire them.

Anyone want to add anything else (remember, think "non-partisan").



Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8948 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1424 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 18):

But that's not really how conservatives want it to work. They want those with the most money to establish the playing field and that's exactly what we have seen.

You clearly have NO idea of what conservatives want, or what the term means. Stop listening to MSNBC.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 19):

Uhhh... what??? Democrats and progressives are ALWAYS calling for increases to minimum wage and try to get corporations to hire to lower unemployment.

Which sounds good to the lower tiers of voters and bleeding hearts, but does not do much to help (except maybe stop the most aggregious cases)

Quoting seb146 (Reply 19):
Democrats are always trying to find ways to create jobs.

No. Democrats are always SAYING that they are trying to create jobs. However the programs that they propose do not have that effect. They are a maskirovka. Make it look/sound like you are trying to help, but in reality they are attempting to ensure the continuation and expansion of a dependent class, unable to fend for themselves without the benevolence of their friends the Democrats, who must remain in power in order to give you the goodies.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5770 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 2):
h huh. And how many of you would work at Taco Bell, scrub bar-room floors, or really anything for minimum wage

Well, my first job was washing dishes in a restaurant and the job also included cleaning the floors and stuff (mats, grease traps, etc) at the end of the day. I had it for 6 months and did a good job. Was it a career for me? No. It was a stepping stone as are most of the "unwanted" jobs. But you do them becasue you need to start somewhere and you need to earn money and they teach how to work. The cry of "jobs that no American will do" are BS, sure no one wants]t to do them or necessarily aspires to them but they will do them and the work will be done.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 20):
Can we all at least agree on a few non-partisan facts here?

- Illegal immigrants have broken the law to come into this country.

- Many of them have jobs that other Americans aren't too keen on doing (picking fruit and vegetables for 12 hours a day, for instance)

- Many of them also have jobs that other Americans would do (construction, meat packing plants, etc.)

- Even though they have broken the law to come here, the majority come here for very American reasons (to actually start a better life for their families, to make their families back home in Mexico more prosperous, etc.)

- American businesses are complicit in this illegal action, as they actually hire this source of illegal labor.

- Illegal immigrants are human beings too, and therefore do not deserve to be taken advantage of by the businesses who hire them.

Anyone want to add anything else (remember, think "non-partisan").

While I agree with your synopsis, it does not do anything beyond gather the facts but the facts are already well known. the question now is "what to do about the situation". You cannot just allow those here illegally to continue to just have jobs and you cannot continue to allow people to come here illegally. You also can't just grant those here "amnesty" or whatever as it will just cause an entire new group to come to fill the soon to be vacated jobs once held by those that were illegal but are not legal. You have to enforce the laws see what happens, then adjust the system/laws, and then things will change.

All protecting illegal immigrants does is continues their low level existence and that is not the way any nation should be.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2750 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

Quoting planespotting (Reply 20):
- Illegal immigrants have broken the law to come into this country

And should be sent home for breaking the law.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 20):
Many of them have jobs that other Americans aren't too keen on doing (picking fruit and vegetables for 12 hours a day, for instance)

B.S. If the job was available they would have to take it or they would be denied benefits. Benefits should only be when there are more unemployed than there are jobs. Send the illegals home and our unemployment would be gone. (that is what Viscente Fox did to lower his unemployment rate. Gave his people maps to the US)

Quoting planespotting (Reply 20):
Even though they have broken the law to come here, the majority come here for very American reasons (to actually start a better life for their families, to make their families back home in Mexico more prosperous, etc.)

But they broke the law and need to be sent home. How many millions across the planet want to come here but have to wait or never get to come because they have to wait to do it legally and not just run across the border.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 20):
American businesses are complicit in this illegal action, as they actually hire this source of illegal labor.

Yes they are and the Feds should be using the laws on the books to go after them.

Quoting planespotting (Reply 20):
Illegal immigrants are human beings too, and therefore do not deserve to be taken advantage of by the businesses who hire them.

But they are illegal and should be sent home for breaking and entering.

Non Partisan fact for you. The federal government is refusing to do the job of applying the laws of the land. Thus by saying they are upholding the constitution in their oath they are breaking that oath by not applying the laws that are on the books and defending the United States.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinesan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4965 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1367 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 21):

I will believe conservatives are trying to level the playing field when they admit that women and minorities still face racism and discrimination in this country.

And I thought government's job was exactly the opposite of "levelling the playing field." All I've heard from conservatives is that a policy trying to do so is socialism and it hurts those who want to work hard to achieve success. Make up your mind, brother.



Scotty doesn't know...
25 FlyPNS1 : Except when they put job postings out for many of these jobs, no one shows up but illegal immigrants. Hardly. If you sent all illegals home, two thin
26 2707200X : I suppose the Republicans are the ones making the jobs and not just saying it? Note to self.
27 tugger : I won't say "sent home" but they should not be able to get a job. Period. And as we have seen with the downturn in the economy, when the jobs go away
28 lewis : I just read today that in CA, illegal immigrants will get more benefits for education. If someone's status is "illegal", how can he/she claim benefit
29 Post contains images AGM100 : Tried to get my son a job at the car wash down the street ... its hilarious . Their are 40 year old non English speaking men and women working all ov
30 Post contains links casinterest : Gotta love fox news. UnFair and UnBalanced. http://www.azcentral.com/news/electi.../azfactcheck/fact-story.php?id=301 "The bottom line: It is wrong t
31 Dreadnought : yes, it still happens. My wife was a victim of it. But that does not necessarily mean that the response should be quotas and reverse discrimination.
32 tugger : Yeah this is a really stupid thing for California to do. We now join Texas in allowing illegal residents to access public funds for school loans. My
33 gigneil : You can't find a job at a fast food restaurant? Really? Seriously? NS
34 planespotting : I don't think we need mindless assertions about other people's kids when you have no information about them other than that someone on this board nam
35 tugger : Are you asking me? Because you are contradicting yourself if you are. The simple truth is that American citizens do apply for and do get "low wage" a
36 san747 : Do you listen to yourself when you post? I think its semantics and small disagreements in interpretation. For example, I don't see a minimum wage or
37 gigneil : Okay I think we may be on the same page and not realize it. The point I'm trying to make is that there are jobs available and that many unemployed Am
38 tugger : No, those students are obviously US citizens and so do not need any special legislation to be able to get school funds. This is for those not born he
39 Flighty : It's good to know that section 8 housing and welfare checks are not needed anymore for the able-bodied. They can report to Taco Bell, and by the way,
40 gigneil : I am not at all anti business. And I was a STRONG proponent of Clinton's quite conservative welfare reforms, and I quite frankly believe they didn't g
41 keagkid101 : This is disgusting. There are MILLIONS of Americans looking for work, and the President and Labor Dept. decide to "protect" workers that are no LEGALL
42 gigneil : Right. Whatever. If Americans want work, its available to them. Just because it doesn't meet their standards doesn't mean its not work. NS
43 Post contains images fxramper : Bad Neil. No drinkie in NYC.
44 TransIsland : By giving legal and illegal workers the same rights and protections that US workers enjoy, wouldn't the Obama administration be making foreign workers
45 aa757first : Well, I mind. The government enforcing immigration policies interferes greatly with the free market, especially in labor intensive service sector ind
46 gigneil : You just wait and see what happens if a "conservative" Republican ever gets elected. I guarantee you will see all those illegals welcomed with open ar
47 san747 : I've held three minimum wage jobs, including one fast food. And I'm not saying Americans never apply for such jobs. But a very significant amount of
48 seb146 : Really. Seriously. I have been out of work for six weeks. I have applied to McDonalds, Taco Bell, and Jack In The Box as well as K-Mart and Macy's. I
49 Dreadnought : Did I say that? You are equating giving a person a job with raising the cost threshold of giving someone a job. Complete nonsense.
50 AGM100 : I am just relaying a simple rules for radical principle . Defy their laws ... but do it with a moral cause, a cause of justice for the poor . So you
51 stratosphere : You think Clinton was the author of those welfare reforms?? Not hardly.. The republicans came up with that one and liberals wanted Clintons head at t
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