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Questions About Computer Processors  
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1769 times:

We have been thinking of buying a new laptop for a while now. We both like Macs and the Mac OS, but we don't want to spend enough for a Mac laptop just now. Anyway, the better half just came up with a "terrific deal" online; the prices were the best I had seen, plus some models were "free shipping", and most are 3, 5, and 6 equal payments, no interest. There were about 7 or 8 "brands" to choose from. All sizes. I had already decided I want a 17 inch model; bear in mind, unlike most people who are "on the go" a lot, such as students or business people, we are retired so super long battery life is not a key requirement, nor is a huge HD; also, I wanted to have at least 4 GB of RAM, but I'm not really in need of "blinding speed". The thing will be on AC power 95% of the time.

So, I started looking through all the models; I first deleted all but 17 in models; that got the list much shorter; then I deleted all the Acer, Asus, and a few more. Finally, I started looking at the "specs"; That's when I realized that not reading all the computer magazines for the past few years, I'm seriously "out of date" when it comes to CPU's. Some were "dual core", some were "quad core", ( so far, so good), but many with Intel CPU's were i 3, i 5, and i 7; so I googled "CPU's", read 5 or 6 pages, and still don't understand what they are talking about !

Where is Klaus when I need him ?

After going through the list about 20 times, deleting things each time, I finally got down to 2 brands, and 7 machines. Three more times, and I finally arrived at "the winner", ( which we ordered ) Surprisingly, it's a Dell; 6 GB of Ram,
650 GB of HD, and a "i 5" processor. ( also turned out to be the most $$$$ to survive all "the cuts" )

While we're at it, one more thing I'll need when it comes.............I have maybe 50 to 70 GB of files in my iMac that I'll need to get into the PC. Any thoughts about that matter ?

Specifically, I need to have a better understanding of processor "tech". Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Charley


Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1764 times:

What is it you wish to do with said computer?

Generally, you can get most of what you want done with a Core i3 or i5. Unless you're a gamer, planning to multitask to infinity, program, or virtualize your laptop you shouldn't drop the cash for a core i7.

NS


User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21470 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
Where is Klaus when I need him ?

At your service!

This is a pretty expansive issue; Unfortunately Intel has made CPU selection a lot harder than it would have needed to be.

The model name (i3, i5, i7) doesn't say all that much on its own, since these models do generally progress towards increasing computing power, but there are multiple generations of i-CPUs, so an up-to-date i3 may in fact outperform one of the earliest i7s. Even within the same generation there are weird incongruencies.

It seems Intel is deliberately obfuscating the model identifications so manufacturers can effectively claim anything they want and mostly get away with it.

You'll not be surprised when I tell you that it is quite likely that you'll usually recognize every Dollar "saved" on a cheap computer relative to a quality machine (on either side of the fence). The cheaper ones are valid choices, just don't expect to get something for nothing – you usually won't.

Transferring your files can be done by sharing your data folders on the original machine and then copy them over from the new one. Alternatively, you could copy them to an external harddisk and then move the disk to the new machine (in this case you should format it with the FAT format so the PC will be able to read it).

Problems in using the copied data depend on what kinds of data they are. That and the optimal features of a new machine will depend a lot on what you're doing with the computer.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1750 times:

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
it's a Dell;

Avoid like the plague. Speaking from experience and from working on several dozen of them. Actually, avoid major big store brands altogether for the same reason. And stay away from Apple since you can get an equivalent laptop with the exact same specs for less than half the price of a Mac usually.

Anyways, I'd highly recommend MSi, Asus, Lenovo, or the higher end Toshibas.

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):
Anyway, the better half just came up with a "terrific deal" online; the prices were the best I had seen, plus some models were "free shipping", and most are 3, 5, and 6 equal payments, no interest

I hope it was from newegg.com. Once I discovered that website I have never, ever bought electronics elsewhere. I suggest you buy whichever laptop that has what you want with the highest ratings, you can't go wrong doing so.

Quoting Geezer (Thread starter):


Specifically, I need to have a better understanding of processor "tech"

Without getting overly technical, The i7s are the top of the line, i5s mid-range and the i3 bottom of the barrel. The main differences between them are the way they handle the memory and how many channels they can use, the number of cores, and of course the speeds.

Here's a great article on the differences between the latest and slightly older CPUs:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...r-architecture-benchmark,2974.html


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1744 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
This is a pretty expansive issue;

I intentionally avoided the expansive part.  

NS


User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21470 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 3):
And stay away from Apple since you can get an equivalent laptop with the exact same specs for less than half the price of a Mac usually.

That is still the same old bunk it's always been.

You can get a much cheaper machine with some of the same specs, that is true. The operative word being some.

That may absolutely be the right thing for what you need – no doubt about it. Just don't delude yourself that anyone will give you the same level of machine for a fraction of the price. That fairy tale lives forever after in advertising land but unfortunately not in the real world.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 3):
Without getting overly technical, The i7s are the top of the line, i5s mid-range and the i3 bottom of the barrel. The main differences between them are the way they handle the memory and how many channels they can use, the number of cores, and of course the speeds.

Unfortunately in no easily determinable order. With Intel's current scheme the CPU names are next to meaningless and one needs to be extremely careful about CPU selection, maybe more than ever.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 3):
And stay away from Apple since you can get an equivalent laptop with the exact same specs for less than half the price of a Mac usually.

You show me a laptop, or a desktop for that matter, with the display quality of an Apple and I will purchase you that device.

NS


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1712 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 5):

Unfortunately in no easily determinable order. With Intel's current scheme the CPU names are next to meaningless and one needs to be extremely careful about CPU selection, maybe more than ever.

It really isn't that complicated for your average consumer.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10266536-64.html

Your average Joe doesn't care if some of the i5s are ever so slightly faster than some of the lower end i7s in some areas and they won't even notice anyways since it's nerdy guys like us that will notice the differences when benchmarking or running specialized applications or games.

So all the average Joe needs to know is: i7 on the top, i5 on the middle, i3 on the bottom.

And in real life, if all you're gonna ever do as an average Joe is browse the web and check your email, the i3 will seem just as fast as an i7.

Quoting gigneil (Reply 6):
You show me a laptop, or a desktop for that matter, with the display quality of an Apple and I will purchase you that device.

Very well then, I'll take an ASUS G74SX please. 


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

Pfft. 1920x1080. My iMac has like twice as many pixels as that.  

And good lord that behemoth weighs nearly 9.5 pounds! ZOUNDS.

NS

[Edited 2011-09-03 20:20:15]

User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1681 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 8):
Pfft. 1920x1080. My iMac has like twice as many pixels as that.

Just because it has a couple more pixels doesn't mean it will look better, and 2560 by 1440 is no way near double that.

Anyways, lets stop derailing the thread shall we?  


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

No! Lets talk about the fact that the fastest processor it comes with is a 2630. I'm unimpressed.  

I was being facetious of course. But the driving force behind Apple's recent products, and the laptops in general, has always been the display. I'd like to see one of your Asus (Asii?) next to an Apple, I will admit to having never compared the top end Asus products in person.

Back on topic: if you don't really know what you need, a Core i3 is probably ok. :p

NS


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1618 times:

[quote=gigneil,reply=1]What is it you wish to do with said computer?


What I do with the computer...........................

First of all, a little background..........I have been using a Mac for the last 9 yrs or so. About 3 yrs ago, a storm cell came through and a gigantic lightening bolt struck a tree in the woods behind our house; I thought I was a "goner" ! When I came inside, everything seemed to work except my power Mac; actually it still works, but a trip to the Apple Store in Indianapolis indicated that it was unable to connect to the internet, and it's too old to spend money on. So from that point on, we have used the iMac ( pre Intel CPU model )

Then, we bought a cheap, bottom of the line laptop to carry around when we fly; it worked just great for what we needed it for.........for about 2 yrs; then it crapped out; not worth fixing. So for the last year, this iMac is the only thing connected to the internet. I should also mention, because we live "out in the boondocks", our only option for high speed internet service is satellite; ( and it is anything but fast ! ) 90% of what both of us use the computer for could easily be accomplished with a low-end machine. All except for the display that is; the iMac has a very nice display, plus, being a Mac, we have tons and tons of music in iTunes, and Miss Arlie uses "Apple Works" a lot, plus i Photo, iDVD, and so on.

As for gaming.........Miss Arlie LOVES games ! Only the stuff she plays you could get by with a $100 machine ! The only "game" I play is "free cell"; I can't explain it, but playing free cell is like "PT" for my brain; ( when your brain gets as old as mine is, you gotta "exercise" it or it will "lock up" on you ! )

I do a bit of photography; right now, I'm only using PS Elements 9 for editing; that will probably be changing soon. I make some pretty fair size "prints". Right now, I'm taking a photo of a covered bridge and putting it on a sign. Each side of the sign consists of four 48" X 96" alumalite panels. We make two 48" X 16 ft prints on vinyl film, then fit it to two horizontal aluminum panels, cut it between the ends of both panels, then do the same thing over again for the bottom two panels. Needless to say, when you blow up an image from a D SLR to 8 ft X 16 ft you need all the pixels you can get ! I'll have it finished this coming Thursday, so I may post a photo of it on my profile page.

I do a lot digital design work, mostly for outdoor signs; the designs are created as BMP files, but must be converted to JPEG format for the printer; which is yet another reason why I need a laptop; I have hundreds and hundreds of designs, and I need to be able to carry them around and be able to display them on a HDTV. Also, I may be adding "Flexi Sign Pro" to the laptop to carry around when I talk to "people".

Thank you all for your input; it's about as I suspected;

BTW...........the Mac Vs PC thing; it's not just about the hardware.........it's the OS; I'm still running "Tiger" on this iMac, and I LOVE it; Windows 7 not so much ! Oh..........I read the entire thread about HP getting out of the PC business; I must confess, it's all "over my head", but I enjoyed reading it anyway.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6669 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1572 times:

I won't talk about processors as it's not that relevant and you have made your choice anyway, but about the transferring part, yes, get an external hard drive, that will also serve for backup purposes : always backup your data !

About making it FAT, I know very little about Apple products (because I don't want them), so, isn't it possible to make a mac use NTFS ? Because FAT32 will limit the size of each file to 4GB.

About the quality of displays, from what I read a couple years ago when I was looking into laptops, Apple had it's share of crappy glary TN screens just like every other brand. What I liked with Dell was that you could choose the screen even on laptops, including nice IPS ones.

As for the 27" iMac, the same exact panel is used on the Dell UltraSharp U2711. Not that I'm trying to sell Dells, I currently own nothing from them, I've got three HP ZR24W IPS displays on my main rig, pretty good without going into Eizo's territory.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21470 posts, RR: 53
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1556 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
About making it FAT, I know very little about Apple products (because I don't want them), so, isn't it possible to make a mac use NTFS ? Because FAT32 will limit the size of each file to 4GB.

NTFS is a proprietary Microsoft format which cannot reliably be written to without official drivers.

Mac OS X can read from but not write to NTFS. There are add-ons for NTFS write access, but I would not recommend those as they may be unreliable.

As long as no extremely large files are involved, FAT should suffice.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 12):
About the quality of displays, from what I read a couple years ago when I was looking into laptops, Apple had it's share of crappy glary TN screens just like every other brand.

MacBooks of all kinds are solidly in the upper half, usually even at or near the top of the range regarding their display quality.


User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1534 times:

Check out Newegg.com and it will be really easy to make a decision.


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 14):
Check out Newegg.com and it will be really easy to make a decision.

              

Just sort everything with top reviews/most reviews and pick from the top 5. Can't go wrong with that. I've bought thousands of $$$ worth from them using that method and I've never been disappointed and always pleasantly surprised.

[Edited 2011-09-04 14:16:36]

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

In all of Newegg there isn't a single laptop that approaches the specs of a Macbook Pro. Just sayin.

They are much much much cheaper, however.

NS


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1499 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 16):
In all of Newegg there isn't a single laptop that approaches the specs of a Macbook Pro. Just sayin.

You're not looking hard enough:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ax=3.06&Order=REVIEWS&PageSize=20#

There's 23 right there that are at least equal and many exceed the 17" Mac's specs in many regards, yet they're all cheaper.


User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21470 posts, RR: 53
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1482 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 17):
There's 23 right there that are at least equal and many exceed the 17" Mac's specs in many regards, yet they're all cheaper.

Just pick a single one that matches or exceeds a MacBook Pro with the whole package. I doubt you'll find one at a significantly cheaper price (if at all).

Constructing complex devices gets exponentially more complicated and more expensive the more demands you're trying to satisfy at the same time.

Computers which satisfy a high number of challenging requirements are impossible to build for cheap prices – the number of compromises made is directly connected with the cost and price.


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1462 times:

I will willingly concede this much............I probably know less about up-to-date computer "tech" than anyone here. I do know a bit about Macs, and I'm also aware that many people don't like them, ( or Steve Jobs ), but keep one thing in mind; anytime you attempt to compare any two things, unless you compare everything on both side, your final analysis is going to be meaningless.

People who buy Apple computers don't buy them just because they like their "looks", etc. They buy them because of the total "package", which, when you stop to think about it, is the machine, the OS, and the software that comes already installed. Say you're "into" music; how useful is any computer going to be if it has no software to manage music files ?
Not useful at all. Ditto if your "thing" is productivity; MS is pretty good in this regard; but overall, look at every PC made, then look at the included software, and it's all over the map ! Not so with a Mac.

Here's another "tidbit" you may or may not know.............until just the last 5 to 10 years, if you were to go aboard any active U.S. Navy aircraft carrier, you would have found all the computers made by such names as Sun, Silicon Graphics, Cray, etc. etc. etc That all changed a few years ago when the U.S.N. changed over to........computers made by Apple. Not because they liked Steve Jobs, or because they 'love" iTunes. but because of mainly their operating system.

When Apple parted company with IBM ( for their CPU's ) and started using ones from Intel, there was one hell of a lot of "changing over" that had to be done; I know this only because my son, ( who is a civilian EE and works for the U.S.N. ) had to do much of the "changing over". ( which is also how I happened to become a Mac user in the first place. )

Take a long hard look at Windows; ( and it's endless "variants" )

I'm sure there are high quality displays "out there" other than on Macs; (and I'm also sure none of them are going to be cheap ! ) Most of the time, high quality and "cheap" don't go together.

My very first computer was a custom built machine my son had built, and it ran windows NT; the thing was ready for a museum when he gave it to me to "play with" till I bought my first Mac. I still have a huge, 100 lb 21inch NEC monitor which cost him 2 K, back when most people were still looking at 12'' screens ! ( And the old PC.... It did have a "kick-ass" screen saver which I still miss ! )

Check every professional photographer in the U.S. and see what kind of computer they run.........you won't find many PC's ! Again, there is a reason for all of this. Hell, you don't have to go that far; just listen to Klaus; ( who I rather suspect knows more about all of this than all of us, put together ! )

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1460 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):

Just pick a single one that matches or exceeds a MacBook Pro with the whole package. I doubt you'll find one at a significantly cheaper price (if at all).

Well since apparently everybody is to lazy to do the comparison themselves I'll pick one then:  

ASUS G74SX-XN1 (entry level G74) vs fully loaded Macbook 17" pro (fully loaded = max ram, high end cpu, max HDD)

ASUS:
price: $1729 @ newegg.com (mac= $2949    )

CPU Type
Intel Core i7-2630QM 2.00GHz auto overclockable to 2.9 ghz (Mac wins, by a real life unnoticeable margin at 2.3Ghz)

Screen
17.3" 1920x1080 (almost equal to mac, a tiny bit bigger and I've seen these myself and they're every bit as good)

Memory Size
12GB DDR3 (blows away the mac by a long shot, 8gb max for the mac)

Hard Disk
500 Gb, a bit less than a MAC but wins at speed at 7200 RPM, (is equal with the MAC if you get the 500 GB as well, high end G74 has 1.5TB 7200 RPM)

Optical Drive
DVD (all you get is a DVD/CD RW in the mac, the higher end G74 has Bluray)

Graphics Card
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560M 3GB GDDR5 (blows mac out of the water again)

Communication
Gigabit LAN and WLAN (equal to mac)

Ports
1 x USB 3.0, 3 x USB 2.0, 1 x VGA, 1 x HDMI, 1 x Microphone jack; 1 x Headphone jack, Multi card reader (a bit better than mac)

So in all you pay nearly half of what you would for the Mac and there's hardly any compromise whatsoever and there's more than a few places where it gets blown out of the water. And for barely over $100 more yet still under the $2k mark you can get a G74 with blu ray, 3D display capability and a 7200 RPM 1.5TB drive that you can't even get on the mac.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 19):

Check every professional photographer in the U.S. and see what kind of computer they run..

None of the ones I know use macs, and that's close to a dozen of them. Neither do any of the architects or engineers I've come across.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 19):
just listen to Klaus;

  


Anyways, you come to us asking for advice and it is being given to you but yet you are still apparently hellbent on macs being superior, why dont you just get a mac and get on with it?  

[Edited 2011-09-04 16:42:03]

[Edited 2011-09-04 17:07:07]

User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21470 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1401 times:



Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 20):
ASUS G74SX-XN1 (entry level G74) vs fully loaded Macbook 17" pro (fully loaded = max ram, high end cpu, max HDD)

ASUS:
price: $1729 @ newegg.com (mac= $2949    )
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 20):
So in all you pay nearly half of what you would for the Mac and there's hardly any compromise whatsoever and there's more than a few places where it gets blown out of the water.

The Asus machine takes up more than double the volume of the MBP, is substantially heavier, doesn't even have a specified battery endurance (but external tests seem to place it at below two hours vs. 7 hours for the MacBook Pro) and is a completely different kind of beast.

The Asus is a transportable gaming rig.
- 16:9 screen (1920*1080, glossy only) is okay for watching movies and for games (and cheap)
- only HDMI and VGA for maximum resolution of 1920*1200 externally
- gaming graphics processor with lots of VRAM (fast, but very power-hungry)
- no external interfaces for professional peripherals (one USB3 port for 5+5Gb/s)
- memory card reader
- optional BluRay drive for HD movies
- audio: analog only
- plastic case
- apparently less than 2 hours battery endurance (150W power adapter)
- performance reduction on battery power? (standard for this kind of PC notebook, but not specified)
- volume: 5657cm^3 (115% more than the MBP)
- weight: 4.28kg (43% more than the MBP)
- toxic materials: no indication, but both BFRs and PVC likely as in almost all current machines
- OS: Windows Home Premium (limited version, loaded with crapware)

The MacBook Pro is a fully portable workstation.
- 16:10 screen (1920*1200, glossy or matte) is more expensive, but a better fit for doing actual work
- Display Port / Thunderbolt for external displays up to 2560*1600 externally or two Thunderbolt displays at 2560*1440 each (plus the internal one in either case)
- automatic GPU switching for power saving
- FireWire800 for external harddisks and low-latency peripherals (such as professional video/audio interfaces)
- Thunderbolt for 10+10Gb/s data rate @8ns latency + embedded Display Port for external RAID storage, externally connected PCIe peripherals and external displays
- ExpressCard/34 slot
- illuminated keyboard
- audio: analog + digital (optical)
- MultiTouch trackpad with full gesture support
- MagSafe power connector
- machined aluminium case
- 7 hours battery endurance (85W power adapter with MagSafe connector)
- full performance is available on mains and on battery power
- volume: 2623cm^3 (less than half of the Asus)
- weight: 2.99kg
- toxic materials: no BFRs, no PVC
- OS: Mac OS X Lion (full version, no crapware)

RAM capacity is actually no difference – both have just two memory slots and both have a CPU which Intel specs for just 8GB RAM, but both can take the new larger RAM modules instead for a (current) maximum of 16GB.

There is exactly one use where the Asus is a better fit: Gaming (as long as a power outlet is nearby).

When you actually need to work with the machine, if you need to actually take it on the road (regarding weight, volume, battery endurance, performance on battery power, operation without an external mouse and ruggedness), if you need high-grade peripherals or if you appreciate higher-grade functionality and construction overall, the MacBook Pro is the better choice between the two.

So no, the two are no good match to each other. Asus made lots of compromises to boost gaming performance and to bring the price down as far as possible at the same time, leaving out pretty much everything that doesn't benefit gaming directly.

Apple made very few compromises and crammed lots of expensive features into a very compact, light and durable case while making it as versatile and expandable as possible at the same time.

Both are valid choices for what they're targeted at, and the Asus doesn't necessarily have a worse price/value ratio for a transportable gaming rig than the MacBook Pro does for a fully portable workstation.

They are just very different kinds of beasts for totally different customers.

[Edited 2011-09-05 03:18:32]

User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1344 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
The Asus is a transportable gaming rig.
Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
The MacBook Pro is a fully portable workstation.
Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
They are just very different kinds of beasts for totally different customers.

OK sure, there's no denying that. But there's no denying either that 90% of the time laptops spend more time plugged in and on a desk/table/whatever than a persons lap or actually traveling. They both can be put in a bag and take anywhere. They both can rest on your lap. That's the essence of a laptop.


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3651 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1335 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
NTFS is a proprietary Microsoft format which cannot reliably be written to without official drivers.

I've been doing it every day for years with Linux.


User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21470 posts, RR: 53
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1321 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 22):
OK sure, there's no denying that. But there's no denying either that 90% of the time laptops spend more time plugged in and on a desk/table/whatever than a persons lap or actually traveling. They both can be put in a bag and take anywhere. They both can rest on your lap.

The trouble is that the Asus isn't even fully capable for that role – it's a single-purpose gaming machine and is a relatively bad for for anything else. Which isn't even a matter of it being a Windows PC – there are ones which are more versatile. This one just isn't.

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 22):
That's the essence of a laptop.

I would disagree there: The essence of a laptop is that it's portable and gives its user flexibility. If it doesn't provide flexibility, you can basically just use a desktop machine.

Ideally, it is fully portable, still very powerful and still highly expandable.

But it is very expensive to actually cram all three priorities into the same machine, and the more expensive the fewer compromises you want to make.

There are very cheap, relatively portable machines which are very weak and cheaply made ("netbooks").

There are relatively affordable high-performance machines which are just barely transportable ("gaming notebooks").

There are very expensive and extremely portable machines which still have decent performance but little to moderate expansion capabilities ("sub-notebooks").

There are very expensive high-performance, very portable, highly expandable and high-quality allround machines ("mobile workstations").

And there are relatively affordable machines which compromise on something in between all these.

None of these have an inherently bad price/value ratio. You can get a good deal with any of these (or a bad one, as the case may be).

You just won't get something for nothing – and on the other hand you (usually) get what you pay for. Finding out what your main priorities are is therefore the the most important thing before getting something which may be optimized for a completely different set of priorities than your own.


Quoting mham001 (Reply 23):
I've been doing it every day for years with Linux.

And I've got an NTFS driver installed on my Mac as well – such hacks are just not reliable enough for me to recommend to anyone for copying valuable data with them.


25 Post contains images gigneil : There isn't a single PC laptop available on that site that has a 2820QM. Beyond the couple hundred megahertz, there's also a significantly increased
26 diamondflyer : The Mac fanboys think their stuff is so much better than any PC out there, yet they are the first to play the "Look, mine's bigger than yours card."
27 mham001 : An NTFS driver is included in most every Linux kernal and is considered quite reliable. It is a shame Apple users have to face such limitations and r
28 Klaus : If you think you're getting anything for free elsewhere, you make yourself an easy victim, because you don't. You pay for what you get – either wit
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