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Where Did The 9/11 Conspiracies Come From?  
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

Where did the 9/11 conspiracies come from? How did they get so popular?
An interesting article here.


Where Were You When You First Heard?
The other question I asked myself for the 10th anniversary of 9/11.
By Jeremy StahlUpdated Tuesday, Sept. 6, 2011, at 6:59 AM ET

I remember precisely where I was and what I was doing when I heard: I was about three weeks into my first year at Emory University in Atlanta, and I was sharing a meal with my new dorm-mates in the DUC dining hall. In the manner of college freshmen everywhere, we were discussing current events. It was Sept. 12, 2001, less than 28 hours after the attacks, when I heard my first 9/11 conspiracy theory.

http://www.slate.com/id/2302831/


What say you?

 

Please discuss.


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
129 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4387 times:

There are people around who just LOVE a good conspiracy. I believe it mirrors the gravitation towards religion, ie everything happens for a reason or is part of a master plan

Most are harmless, (like those guys with the tinfoil hats), but some go a bit far, (like the 9/11 guys). Every now and then they get a positive hit and that fuels the fire of conspiracy theorists

It would be interesting to see how many Americans believe in some level of conspiracy around the JFK assassination. There are certainly some pretty fishy circumstances surrounding that event.

My in laws, (not American), are all firm believers in the 9/11 conspiracy theory. I take great pleasure in stirring them up.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4341 times:

Some important reasons why you have the '9/11 Truthers' and their related conspiracy beliefs as with some other major events like JFK's assissination, the OKC bombing and other events that trigger conspiricies:

- for any major event that something so big could not have been done by just one pereson or a small group of people, it had to involve governments, or critical insiders in the US or other governrnments, big business, etc.

- someone gained by it happening, from the military, big corporations, other countries etc.

More specifically to the 9/11 attacks.

- as to the WTC attacks, how is it 2 planes were able to hit the towers in such a way to cause their total collaspe

- the failures of President Bush to take immediate actions with the memo of 8/7/01 warning of near term attacks by al-Queda

- the failures and incompentence of the FBI, CIA, airlines, airport secuity to prevent them.

- those that want to blame Israel for all the causes of terrorism, leading to those conspiricies linked to them, especially to set blame on the Islamic world to bring war against them to protect Israel. These conspiricies are very popular in the Islamic world.

- bad and faulty eyewitness testimony as the events happened, some who want to see what they want to see - something well shown in a number of criminal trials

- 'Monday morning Quaterbacking' of what was happening just before 9/11 and noteing the many and massive security failures that some want to not be blame for and why someone didn't take more decisive actions that could have prevented the attacks.

- that a lot of the evidence of the aircraft and the attackers was lost in the massive destruction and subsequent fires.

- too many bad and hidden acts of our and other governments, especially by the CIA that come out later makes some thing they could be capable of causing such an act.


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4772 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4292 times:
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I think it boils down to plain old ignorance. The only place anyone had seen that kind of destruction was in movies. For the first time the world saw the laws of physics of such destruction in action. It looks strange to them, as if they have some previous occurrence to compare it to. A building can't possibly collapse like that. Planes bring down large towers like that? impossible! Even though the world has never seen Boeing 767s loaded with fuel slam into 1,000 foot skyscrapers at over 400mph, these people somehow know the outcome is impossible. Most of these people have no education in physics or structural engineering, yet they make such claims.

Then add the incompetence of the Government and somehow that validates that it was an inside job and all a big cover up.

What's funny is that there is many different conspiracy theories. They all share similar themes, but as to the specifics there are so many variations. It doesn't matter to these people. They just want to believe the Govt was in on it somehow and will reach very hard for any way to "prove" it.

I don't get it. I don't believe any of it. I think it's sad.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4284 times:

Because people keep asking "But what about....?" and don't get an answer that satisfies them. There is still questions about Tower 7 (I believe that is the one) and how some people believe it was a controlled explosion. Some people believe the Pentagon was not hit by aircraft because they (they consipiracy theorists) did not see pieces of a plane. I have been seeing different conspiracy shows on all this in the past few weeks. The only answer I get is people are not satisfied with what they are told. Also, our government has not been honest with us about a lot of things for years anyway. That adds fuel to the fire.


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

My biggest problem with conspiracy theories is the incompetence of the government. Our government can't even do its main function (run the country) how can it orchestrate such an elaborate plan with NO ONE leaking the information?? Which leads me to the next big problem, leaks. How many leaks do we see every year that the government really, really wants to be secret? How can you get hundreds, maybe even thousands of Americans to stay silent for 10 years on the slaughter of thousands of people????? NO!

A problem I've seen in many complex conspiracy theories (especially the hour long "proofs" on youtube) is that they find some strange occurrence, CONCLUDE on why that happened, then use that CONCLUSION as proof for another event. They build a huge elaborate scheme that is technically possible, but all the "proof" can be traced back to a plausible conclusion (but never any facts!)

I think the craziest theory I saw was that Nixon was responsible for the JFK assassination, and there was some secret organization he was in, and you had to commit a heinous act to get in. The ending was how did George W Bush get it? Then it showed the Twin Towers. Give me a break.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7125 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4258 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
My biggest problem with conspiracy theories is the incompetence of the government. Our government can't even do its main function (run the country) how can it orchestrate such an elaborate plan with NO ONE leaking the information?? Which leads me to the next big problem, leaks. How many leaks do we see every year that the government really, really wants to be secret? How can you get hundreds, maybe even thousands of Americans to stay silent for 10 years on the slaughter of thousands of people????? NO!

Even though it is not science I think your right, this is the biggest and most valid piece of evidence there is for 9/11. JFK sure it could habe been a few people, even Pearl Harbor. The "they knew it was coming thing" but 9/11 would have taken hundreds if not thousands to pull off. No one stays silent about that. Its natural for there to be these theories and I think it is natural and ok for us to call those people crazy and idiots. Also people such as the maker or lose change, they may just be in it for the money.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4772 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4246 times:
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Quoting flymia (Reply 7):
Also people such as the maker or lose change, they may just be in it for the money.

Definitely. And if true, it's funny that supporters criticize the majority for being manipulated by the media and the Gov't, when they're being manipulated by someone interesting in making a name and profit.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 4216 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 8):
Definitely. And if true, it's funny that supporters criticize the majority for being manipulated by the media and the Gov't, when they're being manipulated by someone interesting in making a name and profit.

Haha I forgot about that... I was on a conspiracy theorist forum and the threads would all be the same... "Look what I found about ________!" People would be saying that it was a definite game changer, proof, now they believe it. Someone would call BS and be accused of being a sheeple by the government... more like those posters were being sheeple and listening to every poster's new theory! Now I try not to generalize, and I have seen a few posters on here with mild concerns that make some sense, but a bunch of them are exactly like what I described! Ironically, they think they're thinking independently, yet they depend on the unverified "proofs" of other conspiracy theorists...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13170 posts, RR: 77
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4178 times:

Good answers, saved me some typing!

I do think the incredulity factor plays a part, outside of the usual suspects with their various axes to grind.

Same applied to JFK, how could one man, a rather sad figure at that, kill such a powerful man as a US President?
But they never answer what to me is an obvious question - was the attempt on Reagan a plot too?
If not, why not? Another sad and rather pathetic person got much closer to the President too, Reagan was very lucky to survive. Had JFK's crumbling spine not needed a brace he might have been able to duck after the first shot.
These two were not the first either, Lincoln, McKinley both killed, both by lone nuts.

Was it the advent to seeing it on TV? Again, same does not to apply to Reagan it seems.

They also choose to ignore a real conspiracy, the one perpetrated by the Nixon White House.
Is it because the fact that only a few involved but it got found out, blows a rather large hole in the ideas around massive plots?
Motive too. Nixon was in 1972, set to win that year, which he did in a massive landslide.
So why take risks with petty bugging of opponents?
Because for all his power, all his political capitol, Nixon had demons, was paranoid.
His awkward public persona was not just shyness, for all his power and lust for more of it, being President was just not suited to his personality. At least in the televisual age.
(Until last year, we had the Prime Minister who had many of the same issues in being in the top job).

This I think is instructive, most real conspiracies are petty, small minded affairs, not massive plots.
And what causes the real damage, are the attempts to cover up, call it the 'kid found with his hands in his mother's purse syndrome!'
Panic grips the people involved, it all falls apart.

We've even had cases where people in power have had to resign for attempting to spin, cover up, yet the subsequent inquiry into the dirty deed itself has found no serious wrong doing. Had they not panicked, they'd have ridden it out most likely.

Now make the leap to supposed massive plots like Sept 11th, it just doesn't compute.
Motive is often said to enable Bush to attack countries like Iraq, so when one of the major reasons for doing so turns out to be false, lack of WMD's, why did our conspirators not cover themselves by planting WMD's?
Which would have been much easier.
Then look at the massive incompetence, of an unprecedented degree, in the aftermath of the invasion.
Such serial incompetence from those who allegedly pulled off the biggest plot of all, Sept 11th?
Incompetence that would, in time, cause massive political damage to them.

But many people cannot accept that yes, something unprecedented, unimaginable, CAN come out of a clear blue sky, literally in the case of the 2001 attacks.
Even though since 1998 Bin Laden had said, in public, in front of cameras (even CNN were invited), that his group was out to kill as many of their enemies as possible.

In 1994 a bunch of Algerian islamists sought to do the same to Paris with a hijacked AF jet, they failed but the intention was clear.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_8969

[Edited 2011-09-06 11:22:31]

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4138 times:

I recommend reading this article on conspiracy theories in general, including 9/11 ones.

http://www.garynorth.com/public/8431.cfm

Quote:
There will come a day when the building will collapse.

I can tell you what will trigger this. Washington's checks will bounce, or just as bad from the recipients' point of view, not buy anything. That will be the day when the central bank-sustained house of economic cards, sustained by lies, comes crashing down. That will be the day of collapsing faith in the government's biggest lie of all: its promise of endless checks, free of charge to the recipients. "They lied! They lied!" Indeed, they did.

"I wonder what else they lied about."

The footnotes are out there. The textbooks are not.


User currently offlineFoxTwo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4133 times:

The Answer is Simple : For every tragedy , someone will try to make a buck off it by playing the emotional card. Roger Moore , or the countless other theorists out there. Regular War is just not acceptable by their standards, and I guess they feel comfortable knowing Jack Bauer is running around protecting them from the god awful evil president.

User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

Conspiracies in general emerge from an 'earned' distrust of an entity or person that has presented him or itself to be 'true or truth'...and subsequently proven to be the exact opposite. You all do it with people that you know..once they're established as a liar or deceptive.. the smart ones no longer invest any trust in that person or entity. Some people will accept that lying person or entity again and again..and get burned each and every time without fail. As proof, look at the Churches, the Catholic Church in particular, the 100s of years of deceit, betrayal, outright hostilities and look at how many people keep going back given that it's echelon of power hasn't really changed all that much. That is the perfect model of how people will believe in something in spite of it's actions. Your indoctrination to the church begins young and goes for years. So you're basically conditioned believe in a certain manner. The same with gov't..whether your gov't capital in Lagos, Moscow or DC. As a native of such, you believe your gov't can do no wrong -- but you tell yourself "ok, in the past they did..but not now, we have much more stringent measures in place so it's harder to get away with"... when in truth just the opposite is true.

Take Cheney/Halliburton and the raping of the US Treasury by way of no-bid contracts....compared to the long list of House of Rep. Speakers/Leaders who went down for corruption, Jim Wright, John Tower, Tip O'Neill, etc..none of those guys would have dreamed of such enormous scales of theft that new age politicians have pulled off and gotten away with. So yes, it has certainly gotten worse. So people become skeptical of their leadership - and rightfully so.. I mean it's unfolding right before your very eyes..how on earth can you deny it?

Corporations, take BP and the Gulf spill for example.. given what you know now, would you trust BP or any oil company to lord over a giant spill - would you trust them to handle everything and take their word for it that 'it isn't as bad as it looks and don't worry, we'll take care of it'..? If you were paying attention your answer is a 'solid NO'. Given what I know about corporate conduct I didn't need to see the Gulf spill play out to know exactly how BP would respond.. it was predictable. But because of cost, money, greed..BP went into protection mode and the lies started flying. That is my point about how conspiracy ALWAYS accompanies 'power and wealth' and not always in a bad way.. it's bad when people are harmed or killed.

When that fella was going to bring down Murdoch & the UK gov't...and he was suddenly killed... how many of you believe that was a coincidence? To some people, conspiracy simply doesn't exist - which is better known as a perfect world. Sorry, I don't live there.

So as to 9/11, the simple conduct of Bush trying to stop all investigations - going out of his way to stop it along with his closest circle. They way they threatened a frighten public with "with the if you don't re-elect us' the terrorist may strike again tactics, all the signs of a lying scoundrel were playing out right infront of our faces and many choose to write it off as 'oh there just has to be reason they are saying that.." yeah, there is.. they are feeding you horsecrap and most are eating up because they have nowhere else to turn. So you accept that kind of behavior, basically giving them a green light to continue whatever it is they are up to. That deception led to a disastrous attack on the wrong nation costing untold numbers of death.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 2):
It would be interesting to see how many Americans believe in some level of conspiracy around the JFK assassination. There are certainly some pretty fishy circumstances surrounding that event.

I just can't wait for the 'anti-conspiracy types' calling Jackie Onassis a liar and delusional when her personal recordings are released this month where she shares here belief that LBJ was behind her husbands assassination. When I was a kid I would be one of those because I was offended when distinguished former FLOTUS 'married' a foreigner. I was outraged! But as I grow older, I realized, what on earth was I thinking? What right do I have to question the personal decisions of someone I don't even know. Someone who's world I knew nothing about?! It was sheer insanity for me to feel and think that way. But sadly, most Americans are stuck directly in that lane of thinking I had when I was a kid. They think they understand that world of power, intrigue and influence. And since most Americans ARE NOT wealthy, ARE NOT influential, ARE NOT politically connected..they no f*n idea what is going on. Not then and certainly not now. Most don't even bother to educate themselves enough to form a rational opinion.

For those people who run around calling those who 'acknowledge the existence and presence of conspiracy' nuts, crazy, loons..' this speaks directly about your wiling ability to suspend a dark side of humanity and completely dispense it from your mind. Yep, like that kid who plugs his ears and shouts "lalalalalalala..' I can't hear you".. the old adage ignorance is bliss cuts more ways than one. The level ignorance of the person who does this..and lumps the UFO believers and 9/11 believes and the Obama Birthers into the bag of 'nutty conspiracy people' have simply adopted or feel comfortable with an anti-intellectual approach. After all quantum theory if true (and it is certainly undermining the classic understanding of physics as we know it)...says virtually anything is possible. Including those UFO 'the other' nuts blab about.

So again with 9/11, with so many Americans having never travelled abroad, no clue as to how real power and influence works... their gov't is all they have and there's just no way you're going to get them believe it could be involved in anything so heinous. End of story.

BN747

[Edited 2011-09-06 15:56:52]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13170 posts, RR: 77
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4062 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 13):

When that fella was going to bring down Murdoch & the UK gov't...and he was suddenly killed... how many of you believe that was a coincidence? To some people, conspiracy simply doesn't exist - which is better known as a perfect world. Sorry, I don't live there.

Who was than then?
That ex hack who had a very long history of alcohol and drug abuse?
I've news for you, he wasn't even a major player, let alone a plotter. Those who have pushed to expose the wrongdoings of the Murdoch press and UK governments kowtowing to them (over 30 years) are still very much still alive and kicking.
And winning.
They include journalists, MP's, celebrity victims and what turned the issue into a major and ongoing scandal, the families of the crime victims hacked by the press. Nope, they've not been bumped off either.

So really, you don't seem to know hardly anything about this whole case, which is, as I said, still far from over.
You've heard one thing, not even a major part of the story and massively inflated it.
Murdoch has lost one of his few profitable papers, his most important agenda, gaining full control of BSkyB is politically and commercially dead, Parliament is far from finished with his organisation, his Son's accession to replace him now looks most unlikely, the PM is still carrying the stench of him taking on a former Murdoch editor as a Press Secretary (who was forced to resign months ago).

The idea that this scandal would collapse the UK government in short order is another fantasy, not how the real world works, (even Watergate - that most inconvenient event for conspiracy types - took two years to fell Nixon), it has done damage to Cameron, may well do more yet.

As to Bush not wanting the 9/11 investigation, you bet he didn't.
Because he knew how warnings about a possible major attack on the US in the months leading up to Sept 11th were ignored, sidelined.
Experienced people like Richard Clark were not taken seriously.
The then National Security Advisor Condi Rice was incompetent.
I agree with you that he used those events to advance his own agenda, are you saying then that therefore they had a hand to doing it? That's a vast leap.

People just hate to think that after all those trillions of $ over all those years, spent on defence, on intelligence, was beaten by a bunch of terrorists.
But that vast apparatus was not designed for that kind of threat.
In the 1930's the French spent huge sums on a massive network of defences against a German invasion, the Maginot Line, in 1940 the Germans just went around it.

In 1994 the terrorists learned from the failed attempt to crash an airliner on Paris, the US administration in 2001 probably didn't even know it had ever happened.

[Edited 2011-09-06 16:33:30]

User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4058 times:

I think there are some good points behind some of the conspiracies. Some of them are nutty and would involve too many people. However a straight out CIA members met with Bin Ladin to arrange for this attack, so we could invade Afghanistan to take control of a very important oil pipeline isn't too whack...

as well as to create the Freedom reducing Patriot Act for one step closer to making the U.S.A. a police state is not that whack either.


However the idea that painting KC-767s up as United and American planes and flying them as drones into the tower, or putting all people from the 4 planes aboard one plane and landing it in Cleveland with no explanation to where the passengers ended up is whack.


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4053 times:

[quote=FoxTwo,reply=12]Roger Moore , or the countless other theorists out there. Regular War is just not acceptable by their standards, and I guess

FoxTwo.......I think you are getting your Moore's mixed up ! Surely you don't think James Bond would..................?

On the other hand, we have that well known fat slob from Flint, Michigan, named Michael............... who has single handedly created a career "Professional Liar" ( and all around obnoxious puke ) I think he's the "Moore" you mean ?


Conspiracy theories; where do they come from ?

The "schmucks" who make up conspiracies can't be troubled by the laws of physics, or even the "laws of the land";
because they have an agenda; they have a "problem" they want to attack; they "operate" on the principle, "think up a great lie, then tell it over and over enough times, and pretty soon it will become true ! ( or at least there will always be idiots who will think it's true ) That's where conspiracy theories come from.


[quote=Silver1SWA,reply=4]A building can't possibly collapse like that. Planes bring down large towers like that? impossible! Even though the world has never seen Boeing 767s loaded with fuel slam into 1,000 foot skyscrapers at over 400mph, these people somehow know the outcome is impossible. Most of these people have no education in physics or structural engineering, yet they make such claims.


Very good point ! I'm sure there may still be a few people who don't believe a large airliner flying into a skyscraper at 400kts couldn't cause it to collapse; I think before 9-11 there may have been a few engineers and architects who may have doubted it being possible. But how many people ever stop to consider how many thousands of tons of "stuff" are in a huge building, over 1,200 feet high ? And what do they think is holding all of that immense weight "up" ? Ask them, and they will reply, "steel" ! Steel is "strong" ! Everyone knows that. Yeah, steel is very strong; until it reaches a temperature of around 2,000 degrees F...........after which point it becomes a "wet noodle"; ( and wet noodles are incapable of holding up thousands of tons of......"anything". )

When I was "a little younger", I clearly remember the day a B-25 bomber crashed into the Empire State Building; made a big smoking hole, set some fires, ( which were quickly put out ), and as we all know, the ESB is still standing there.
But as many on this website are aware, there's a BIG difference between a B-25 and a B 767 ! ( and a HUGE difference in the amount of fuel on board. )

We were already in a "war" prior to 9-11; the attacks on the WTC just vastly escalated that war; and it's definitely NOT OVER YET. That's what I'm concerned about.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4049 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 14):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 13):

When that fella was going to bring down Murdoch & the UK gov't...and he was suddenly killed... how many of you believe that was a coincidence? To some people, conspiracy simply doesn't exist - which is better known as a perfect world. Sorry, I don't live there.

Who was than then?
That ex hack who had a very long history of alcohol and drug abuse?
I've news for you, he wasn't even a major player, let alone a plotter. Those who have pushed to expose the wrongdoings of the Murdoch press and UK governments kowtowing to them (over 30 years) are still very much still alive and kicking.
And winning.
They include journalists, MP's, celebrity victims and what turned the issue into a major and ongoing scandal, the families of the crime victims hacked by the press. Nope, they've not been bumped off either.

So really, you don't even know hardly anything about this whole case, which is, as I said, still far from over.
You've heard one thing, not even a major part of the story and massively inflated it to suit your own, frankly bizarre ideas.
Murdoch has lost one of his few profitable papers, his most important agenda, gaining full control of BSkyB is politically and commercially dead, Parliament is far from finished with his organisation, his Son's accession to replace him now looks most unlikely, the PM is still carrying the stench of him taking on a former Murdoch editor as a Press Secretary (who was forced to resign months ago).

Classic conspiracy theory stuff then, no real knowledge of the issue you profess to have such an insight about, making 2 + 2 = 10.

Whoa ease up on that throttle there, hoss...

I'll admit, I don't know any of the real details of that story , you're much closer to than any of Americans will be. I just read the guy had a connection to it..and was sudenly 'offed'..

..so are you saying he had 'no connection' whatsoever?

Because he drank alcohol and took drugs..he's a scumbag?

Do you drink? I bet you do. Should your standing be questioned because you drink? If you don't drink, do you take any kind of drugs? Sure..only for your arthritis...the majority of adults on this planet either drink or use drugs - illegal or prescription. So don't even try to apply that crutch to discredit someone unless you're willing apply it to yourself. And of course this being the internet...you're a saint.

I bet Murdoch and half the UK gov't (like our own gov't) are drunks and drug abusers.. so please spare us the whole morality attack.

Getting back to the fella I quoted.. did he have any involvement or not? The American media sure played it up like it did..and here you are telling us it was bogus.

I'm very skeptical of people who 'trash' others the way you just did based on what 'he reportedly' did. It reeks of the same foul odor this gov't did on Bin Laden. Once the man was killed .. that was enough. There was no need to announce 'oh, he had a big porn stash'. What did that message say to the listening public? It said porn is bad..yet every male who heard it has either a bigger stash or has clocked record hours of cruising porn sites. Tactics like yours of trashing people based on vice keeps hypocrisy alive and well. Thanks for that.


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2424 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4033 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
Where Did The 9/11 Conspiracies Come From? 

Two places. The first from people that have way too much time on their hands trying to debunk the simplest of reasoning. Two, the gullible ones that get themselves in the spot light exclaiming that the first party is absolutely correct.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 16):
When I was "a little younger", I clearly remember the day a B-25 bomber crashed into the Empire State Building; made a big smoking hole, set some fires, ( which were quickly put out ), and as we all know, the ESB is still standing there.
But as many on this website are aware, there's a BIG difference between a B-25 and a B 767 !

And they also don't get that one event was basically a roman candle being fired at a cinder block whereas the other was a molotov cocktail thrown into a soda can.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 15):
Afghanistan to take control of a very important oil pipeline isn't too whack...

I hate this one. I absolutely hate it. And the whole Iraq for oil one. *Where is our free/low costing oil!!!???*



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7125 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4024 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 15):
as well as to create the Freedom reducing Patriot Act for one step closer to making the U.S.A. a police state is not that whack either.


A police state? Even saying the US is coming close to a police state is a huge exaggeration, that's like saying Harlem is a third world country.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19):
I hate this one. I absolutely hate it. And the whole Iraq for oil one. *Where is our free/low costing oil!!!???*


I never understood that argument either. We DONT have the oil.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 13):


Your in America believe what you want to believe, one of the great things about this country. Funny, if these theories were anywhere near the truth why not try to shut up some of the people then? If they can pull off 9/11 they surley can do that.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 20):
Your in America believe what you want to believe, one of the great things about this country. Funny, if these theories were anywhere near the truth why not try to shut up some of the people then? If they can pull off 9/11 they surley can do that.

Isn't it obvious? I mean seriously....?

If you 'shut up' people who are near truth .. to the point of eliminating them all. Then you've arrived Agousto Pinochet's Chile..the perfect Police State.

The beauty in having babbling conspiracy theorists rattling off from a 1000 different points of view..is that those in the middle watching have NO IDEA what to think, so they buy into everything the official line says without question and we'll actually fight 'for' said authority further validating their actions be they right or wrong. Which is where most of you find yourselves today.

What was it like in Police state? And I actually visited under his rule.. everyone is like robots, no one has an opinion and no one steps out of line. Kind of like Cuba the dumbest street corner cop has absolute and total control over you, your family and everyone on the block.

So the conspiracy blabber mouths contribute greatly to forces in power.. it keeps the ordinary joe either inline with them as supporters or a state of 'not knowing what to beleive' therefore tuning out and signing off altogether. Which is exactly where America (and many nations) stand today.


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5570 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):

- the failures and incompentence of the FBI, CIA, airlines, airport secuity to prevent them.

FBI and CIA? Absolutely.

Airlines and airport security? Not a friggen chance in hell. You should read up on the interviews of the ticket agent who checked in two of the hijackers (including Atta) in PWM, and a BOS security agent who performed secondary security screening on one of the hijackers. They're actually pretty informative and rather chilling.

For example, the ticket agent actually hassled Atta and tried in vain to find a reason to keep him from getting on the plane, because, as he put it, "if there ever was going to be a hijacker, this was him."

The fact was that neither airlines nor airport security had any grounds to deny boarding to any of the hijackers with the information they had. Once they made it to the airport... they were on.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 4):

Then add the incompetence of the Government and somehow that validates that it was an inside job and all a big cover up.

I always loved that rationale: if the government is that incompetent, how the hell are they able to keep such a huge secret?

Quoting flymia (Reply 20):
Even saying the US is coming close to a police state is a huge exaggeration

You should try reading the Patriot Act. Also, the recent SCOTUS decision that basically says police officers can break into your home without a warrant, no matter their intent (legal or not), and even when the intent is clearly illegal and/or the person inside has no reason to believe they're police, that person cannot put up any kind of resistance lest he/she faces charges.

If that's not heading towards a police state, then there's frankly no such thing.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3834 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 22):
Also, the recent SCOTUS decision that basically says police officers can break into your home without a warrant, no matter their intent (legal or not), and even when the intent is clearly illegal and/or the person inside has no reason to believe they're police, that person cannot put up any kind of resistance lest he/she faces charges.

Source??? For some reason, I'm sure the real law isn't as bad as you made it sound



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2997 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3826 times:

Where do these conspiracies come from?
I believe that they come from a particular quirk of human nature. People like to feel that they are smarter than the rest of us. And it seems that people who are further down on the intelligence percentile scale REALLY need to feel that way. Kind of like that short guy we all know with Napoleon Syndrome overcompensating with a hardass attitude or the broke guy with a BMW, people like to feel better about themselves. For 9-11 conspiracists, that "I'm so much smarter than you fools" aspect thrives, especially when profiteers can make a buck from reinforcing that feeling.



Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13170 posts, RR: 77
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
I'll admit, I don't know any of the real details of that story

My excess use of throttle?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 17):
..so are you saying he had 'no connection' whatsoever?

Because he drank alcohol and took drugs..he's a scumbag?

Do you drink? I bet you do. Should your standing be questioned because you drink? If you don't drink, do you take any kind of drugs? Sure..only for your arthritis...the majority of adults on this planet either drink or use drugs - illegal or prescription. So don't even try to apply that crutch to discredit someone unless you're willing apply it to yourself. And of course this being the internet...you're a saint.

I bet Murdoch and half the UK gov't (like our own gov't) are drunks and drug abusers.. so please spare us the whole morality attack.

Getting back to the fella I quoted.. did he have any involvement or not? The American media sure played it up like it did..and here you are telling us it was bogus.

I'm very skeptical of people who 'trash' others the way you just did based on what 'he reportedly' did. It reeks of the same foul odor this gov't did on Bin Laden. Once the man was killed .. that was enough. There was no need to announce 'oh, he had a big porn stash'. What did that message say to the listening public? It said porn is bad..yet every male who heard it has either a bigger stash or has clocked record hours of cruising porn sites. Tactics like yours of trashing people based on vice keeps hypocrisy alive and well. Thanks for that.

I've not had a drink since March 2000 if you must know, never a problem, just that then I started taking a medication to control my recent diagnoses of Rheumatoid Arthritis and I was strongly advised not to drink alcohol due to potential side effects.
The drug I 'use' for this is Methotrexate if you want to check that statement.

I have no idea if the UK government are drink and drug abusers, certainly be risky in our leak prone government, scandal happy press, 24 hour news environment. I know plenty have admitted to having experience of them in their youth.

I saw an interview with the deceased ex Murdoch employee, days before he died, he had a gray pallor and looked most unhealthy, he'd also given his evidence so any assassin was a bit too late.
Did I SAY he was a scumbag? No YOU did. Your words not mine. You who has admitted to knowing little about this case (which I've been following for years). You who knew next to nothing about this unfortunate man, who at least did the right thing in the end.

As I said, he was just a small cog in a revving up machine, this scandal has been bubbling away for years, it was only a minority interest until the revelations that not only were Royal, Politicians, Celebs phones were hacked, but also the phone of a young girl who was murdered , families of dead servicemen and plenty of other blameless people.

Many of the political classes were just scared of the Murdoch press - who if they cannot find out scandal, make it up knowing enough mud that is slung gets to stick.
The scandal that erupted this year changed all that, it was now far more politically toxic to kowtow to Murdoch in the wake of massive public disgust, than to risk taking them on.

There was a conspiracy all right, a fear induced conspiracy of silence, of acquiescence by much (though not all) of the political classes, then the major scandal broke and we were reminded of the story of the Emporer's new clothes.
This government overreached in being nice to Murdoch, the Murdoch press finally overreached in their sleazy behavior.

Presume of me what you like, I'm as sceptical as the next (rational) person and no stranger to cynicism.
But I don't believe in huge conspiracies, in the same way as I don't believe in Santa Claus.
I also do not think the world, human nature, is anything like as simplistically black and white as conspiracy theorists believe.

All you've done is make a lot of assumptions about me, not properly answered ANY of the points I made, indeed seem pretty upset that I dared to bring some rational argument, facts, examples of actual conspiracies (like Watergate) which happen to seriously undermine the fantasy world of huge conspiracy theories.

Do you think the Holocaust was faked? If not, why not? After all the 'historical reviewers' there use the same methods, same attacks and assumptions on those who deem to bring common sense into it, avoid or attack any living witnesses as being 'part of the plot' best - or worst - of all, many of the same people are into big conspiracy theories in general.
A Venn Diagram of '9/11 Truthers', Obama is foreign/a Muslim/a terrorist has a LOT of overlap with Holocaust deniers.
If that seems strong, an incorrect assumption on my part (which I suspect it is in your case?), all I say is if you lie down with dogs, you get fleas.

[Edited 2011-09-07 12:17:16]

25 slider : All good reasons...I think fear and ignorance fuel a lot of it. And, truth be told, the media itself didn't do a good job early on of explaining thes
26 CPH-R : Out of a sick and twisted mind. One of the very first books on a 9/11 conspiracy was written by a French author, who didn't even bother going to the P
27 BN747 : And this is dead on to what happened with J. Edgar Hoover.. his sexual preferences were used against him by Mafia bosses prompting Hoover to state fo
28 flymia : You want to talk about money being a factor you do realize many very wealthy people died that day. People that had more then a few million dollars Ti
29 Post contains links ltbewr : Here is an article from Slate.com that discusses the 9/11 conspiracies along with their current and one time believers. I think it ties in very well w
30 BN747 : That may very well be true. And if their familes decided to spend money getting answers and not buying the gov't version..it is thinking like yours b
31 stratosphere : My most amusing was watching Rosie O'Donnell on the View telling Elizabeth Hasselbeck that this is the first time in history fire has melted steel..lo
32 Post contains links flymia : I took wikipedia which I stated "comes from a credible source." Thats what people who believe these things do a lot see/hear something and just take
33 BN747 : Who on earth (besides you) would take what the Military Times has to say about anything..when you can actually SEE the Top Brass and the DOD chief Ho
34 Post contains images flymia : The link leads to an Internal Memo for the US Army Criminal Investigation Command. A report investiaged by Civilian Special Agents. Yes I know you wi
35 BN747 : If those Civilian Special Agents were paid by the Army/Military/US Gov't they're about as independent as the Iranian News Agency. If they were paid f
36 DeltaMD90 : Another reason I don't believe many conspiracy theorists, facts don't mean anything!
37 flymia : Well much too busy with school work but maybe I will look into it in a few months over winter break. Yes, much of the time they dont. It is pretty fr
38 EZEIZA : I am not a theorist, not even close, but the answer to that particular question would be that they were not able to keep the secret. Let's for a seco
39 BN747 : You're dead wrong on that one too. That is a fact.. do even know who said that? The owner of the WTC Larry Silverstein, he is on videotape in an inte
40 David L : I don't think anyone's denying it was said. What most of us have a hard time believing is that the building's owner authorised the fire department to
41 Post contains images StarAC17 : Easy, the design of the towers were their Achilles heel on that day. Those buildings were designed to be light and have a hollow centre to make the o
42 bjcc : These theories always seem to come from those that can't handle simple truths. 9/11 being a good example. I've not seem anything that supports the the
43 flymia : So lets just say your right. Which you are not. The pull term was used to say stuff such as any type of efforts to contain any fire and get everyone
44 Post contains images Silver1SWA : A lot of people focus on the fire, but let's not forget the aircraft left huge gaping holes that severed much of the structure, including steel. You
45 Post contains images StarAC17 : Fair enough, but I would think that the steel would have had a factor of safety sufficient to hold the support of the buildings up even when losing a
46 BN747 : This person just did... Her said...'Countless other statements like that which make their stories not credible'...how can you read what someone wrote
47 DeltaMD90 : Blah blah no where in there is gonna make me believe that dozens and dozens, maybe even hundreds of Americans, pulled off 9/11 without getting caught
48 GDB : There you go again, seen the autopsy? No. Seen anything credible to support your wild assumption? No. Got any idea of what you are talking about? See
49 Post contains images David L : It never occurred to you that he meant the same as I did - that interpreting the phrase "pull it" as meaning "to implode it" is a huge leap in logic?
50 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I know... I'm such a sheeple... I need to open my eyes more. You know, that car that rear ended me last month, maybe it was sent by President Obama s
51 KiwiRob : Or they could have run out of space, so they moved them to an offsite storage location, most of the large companies I've worked for do just that.
52 Post contains images BN747 : Please only contribute if you can be adult about it..I've little time or patience for child like behavior. A lot of words there .. but nothing to bac
53 David L : It's going to take some time to work out who said what from that post. I don't suppose you'd like to post it again and separate your comments from th
54 BN747 : ummm yeah, I was trying to correct that but with littel success, I was questioning your calling DeltaMD90 'naive', but then he fessed up by saying ..
55 bjcc : BN747 Like I said, some people can't accept simple truths, and have to take it upon themselves to examine in minute detail every part of anything they
56 GDB : Quite so. They are exasperating aren't they? The wild assumptions, lack of reason, logic, basic knowledge, common sense, and context. And ascribing t
57 DeltaMD90 : Ditto. But if you must know, I lost all seriousness because you don't offer a shred of proof towards 9/11 being by the government. How does an NFL pl
58 Post contains images David L : I only asked if you were sure you'd interpreted Silverstein's phrase and flymia's response correctly, that they could have no other meanings.
59 flymia : I dont know the answer to that because there is no answer. There is no reason why they would tear down WTC-7. I am saying what most people say he mea
60 BN747 : Here are the two 'simple truths'...you listed them.. That's it. The rest is well your interpretation and speculation based on...my guess you're the t
61 Silver1SWA : LOL like I said in the other thread, I don't believe what I believe because of something I was told by our government. I know enough about physics an
62 Post contains links DeltaMD90 : And this proves 9/11 how? You keep offering 0 proof. I know you're smarter than that, come on. I've said time and time again that it was possible the
63 BN747 : Demolition experts say 'pull a building' means specifically to implode it (to tear it down is a completely different method and terminology). Like in
64 DeltaMD90 : Yes. Agreed. Then why we having a big discussion on 9/11 by the government? I think just about everyone on this board has admitted that it's possible
65 Post contains images KPDX : And that saddest part is that the political side of it would likely be more concerning to you than the attacks themselves!
66 flymia : loosechange, many random yourtube videos. Whatreallyhappened.com etc.. Many of those sites, I have seen a lot of it.
67 Post contains links AustrianZRH : Cf the "was deliberatly brought down with explosives" theories: a demolition company wrote a good study how these "demolition thories" are Bravo Sierr
68 David L : But the bottom line is that you were wrong to say that flymia claimed Silverstein did not say those words. Doesn't that illustrate how easy it is to
69 connies4ever : I'll lob in my two cents ... About 2 weeks before 9/11 I saw a doc on TV about how the towers were built. Each floor had beams supporting the conccret
70 ltbewr : I would like to add one more factor that may lead to the Conspiracies as to the WTC 1, 2 and 7. By the time of 9/11, many had seen news reports or pro
71 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : But it's the US government!! But all seriousness, the terrorists thought it was super moral to do, 9/11 would have to wreak havoc on at least a few A
72 dc863 : The conspiracy theories existed mostly because a Republican administration sat in the WH. Most if not all the tinfoilers were/are leftists.
73 StarAC17 : You cannot be serious!! There are people who believe in conspriacies are on both sides of the aisle any many of them believe all of them such as the
74 dc863 : Yes I am serious.
75 JBirdAV8r : Tinfoilers are all tinfoilers. All tinfoilers believe that all government is out to get them. The reasons vary, but it always boils down to the gover
76 Post contains images JBirdAV8r : I am amazed at what looniness has been extracted from that ONE phrase in ONE interview. And the context about the FDNY firefighters is ALWAYS cut out
77 GDB : Serious are you? Explain then while these theories are so popular with Neo Nazis/your home grown militia types, extreme Islamists, characters like th
78 StarAC17 : Calm down, I said that to make the point that people whom believe in conspiracy theories are not confined to one side of the political spectrum Darn
79 Post contains links connies4ever : Interesting piece on the rise of conspiracy theories, the birther movement, etc., in "Slate" this AM: http://www.slate.com/id/2302853/ Addresses some
80 andz : This is the only part of the day's events I have trouble with. I am not a conspiracy theorist by any means but, really, where was the plane? I'm not
81 connies4ever : I've seen video of a QF-4 being flown into a spent nuclear fuel storage cask. There is literally nothing left of the a/c after impact. There's scorch
82 MD-90 : We're accustomed to seeing plane wreckage from accidents where the pilots were trying to save lives on the aircraft and on the ground. Those planes w
83 DeltaMD90 : Uhh it kinda blew up into the Pentagon...... Never got that argument. It was flying into the building so not many (if any) pieces would fly back. And
84 JBirdAV8r : In addition to the good explanations above, I've seen at least one picture immediately after the attacks of a piece of fuselage around the window lin
85 flymia : I have a few words for anyone who ever ask that question about 9/11. Go to google image and search ValuJet Flight 592, tell me where the plane is the
86 dc863 : Because it paints the US gov't as evil, manipulative, and willing to do anything to achieve it's aims.
87 AustrianZRH : You're welcome. Found it an intresting read so I thought I'd post it here... From the study I linked to above (page 9): "(...) We have never, ever he
88 LMP737 : William F Buckley was once asked if the CIA was involved in an attempt on the life of Indoneisan strongman Surkano. His reply "It had all the hallmar
89 GDB : Better yet, just how many attempts on Castro were there? But he'll die an old man, half a century or more after they finally gave up on the whole ide
90 DeltaMD90 : Yeah I never understood either. If the government was so smart and was able to pull of 9/11 and get away with it, how were they so incompetent in tak
91 4holer : I'm just trying to figure out how this brilliant conspiracy from the highest and most secret places in our government apparently not only brought the
92 StuckInCA : Yes. Yes it is. It is exactly "too whack."
93 Post contains images StarAC17 : Bill Maher made a pretty general commentary about 9/11 after had to throw out Truthers from his audience. "You know how I know that 9/11 was a terror
94 ltbewr : Sometimes too, some conspiracies come out of other questionable events. Recall the Anthrax terror attacks weeks after 9/11? Many have raised issues of
95 Post contains links yowza : I'm not a conspiracy theorist. However, I am uncomfortable with the sheer number of things that have been left un-investigated and the alarmingly freq
96 LMP737 : I'm going to raise a big BS flag on this video. As others have pointed out on this thread there are people who have a hard time accepting that a smal
97 Silver1SWA : If someone points me to a YouTube video for evidence or to provoke thought, already it's BS.
98 yowza : I'm not for a second saying that the video was *evidence* so let's cool the jets on that. What I was saying is that there are a lot of things that do
99 GDB : LMP737 raises a fair point, in fact the large scale air defence of the US, in the shapes of large fleets of fighters, loads of SAM batteries, began be
100 DeltaMD90 : Here's the thing, 9/11 was so simple it was brilliant, sheer genius. You aren't gonna shoot a missile at a building, can't discretely set up enough bo
101 AustrianZRH : I just recently watched a part of the "Clear the Skies" BBC documentary (it's on youtube). According to them, in the whole continental U.S. there wer
102 StarAC17 : Even if they were combat trained, up until 9/11 in the event of a hijacking the pilots were told to cooperate with hijackers because in most cases in
103 LMP737 : Then why post a link? That's another 9-11 myth. They were combat trained, by the military as combat pilots. Those skills were of little use against h
104 MD-90 : Because we're not worried about Canada or Mexico launching a surprise attack?
105 BN747 : Or as you can't seem to make up mind whether you staying or leaving (this thread) and whether you're sincere or insincere (by your own admission). Ju
106 Post contains images AustrianZRH : Neither are we about Switzerland or Hungary My point of information wasn't a snippy remark towards the U.S. defense situation (why should you maintai
107 Post contains images Fabo : ssooo? might have been an error, false names, or counting organizers amongst actual hijackers, I never looked that much into it. My point exactly. At
108 Post contains links CPH-R : Don't forget, the media pipped the FBI to releasing a list of suspects, naming a group of people before there was any official confirmation of the nam
109 David L : Actually, no. To me it seems more likely that he meant what ltbewr took him to mean. Once again... my point was that it's a bit of a stretch to say t
110 DeltaMD90 : Well, let's try this again... Can't reply without the mods getting all mad and deleting my post. I can PM you my response if you like (and no, it isn'
111 Post contains images canoecarrier : With so many generals in the Austrian Army/Air Force you're armed forces are so well led it probably would only have taken a few minutes to arm your
112 LMP737 : It is a myth that the hijackers are still alive. Google it, it's there. Show me the interviews with the men pictured and named as the hijackers sayin
113 Post contains images David L : And more than a few "data engineers".
114 BN747 : I'd rather you not, you're credibility to be taken seriously was torpedoed by you.. many many post ago. I don't mind discussing such a serious topic
115 Post contains links ltbewr : Former US Senator and Governor of Florida (Democrat) Graham has recently done a book, done in novel form, about 9/11 and publicly speaking out for Pre
116 LMP737 : Historical fact, there were nine different investigation involving the Pearl Harbor attack. Therefore the claim that no one bothered to investigate i
117 DeltaMD90 : Well yeah, I don't like arguing with trolls, but I usually end up doing it anyways. My point I've been trying to drive across which you keep no ackno
118 GDB : Well Jackie Kennedy's tapes played, NO swivel eyed conspiracy nonsense in them after all. Another non event for the conspiracy theorists, akin to thos
119 BN747 : It's an easy thread to follow, both of those underscore the theme of 'conspiracy' itself. As much as some of you try to say conspiracy doesn't exist.
120 Post contains links BN747 : That's they way it's shaping up. Get pissed..but don't froth at the mouth at me..I had nothing to do with it. But yet, it was one person, Mrs Tillman
121 Post contains links and images CPH-R : http://sites.google.com/site/911guide/danielnigro People obsessing over the words 'pull it' need to get a more productive hobby
122 Post contains images David L : To summarise my agreement with some of the main points already noted, I believe the two key factors in a "successful" conspiracy theory are: A desire
123 GDB : I hate that too, this idea that those of us in the real world are dupes who cannot see 'the truth'. Excuse us for actually having a clue of how the re
124 CPH-R : Haven't you heard? Julian Assange dissed the 9/11 truthers, so naturally he's a shill and WikiLeaks is a puppet of "them".
125 BN747 : These two points are minor when compared to the more necessary components of true conspiracy. Which are to realize a pre-determined outcome at great
126 LMP737 : You only quoted part of what I said and tried to twist my words. Watergate was a conspiracy, that is a historical FACT. There is a big difference bet
127 David L : You keep mixing up "conspiracy" and "conspiracy theory". You're starting to lose me again. Are you saying there have been no elections or government
128 ltbewr : Even here as to several airline crashes, we have seen 'conspiracies' come out. TWA800 with the 'missile' theories. The El Al freighter crash near Amst
129 srbmod : At this point, the discussion is turning into childish and petty sniping between a few of the participants and the discussion has pretty much run its'
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