zhiao From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3685 times:
Melbourne can't compare with most US large cities in terms of multiculturalism. NYC? Miami? LA? SF? Chi? DC? Bos? Sea? Philly? Probably Houston has more diversity. Sure Melbourne may be more multicultural than Atlanta and Dallas. But then compare Perth to Atl, and Atl has
You can't really compare Perth and Atlanta. They are vastly different cities, with different populations. Perth is way smaller than Atlanta. But you can compare Melbourne or Sydney to any of the US cities. Yes, there are areas where you may not see the diversity, but SYD and MEL are certainly very very diverse and multicultural. Just take a walk near Flinders street station in MEL during peak hour.
Ok pros first
excelent night life, and yes lots of gay clubs
good public transport compared to most cities
hop & skip to snow fields/ wineries etc
the sporting capital of australia ( you will learn to love AFL)
great mix of cultures with a large greek & asian componennt
its not Sydney
bloody cold in winter (too cold for drop bears)
inner city housing expensive as with most cities (is your employeer paying?
they make VB the worst beer in the country
BN2 Metro, 402,404, Conquest, king air, 707,727.200, 732,733,734,735,736,738,757,762,763,742,743,744, MD11, DC9,Westwind
TSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3077 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3659 times:
Quoting mal787 (Reply 10): the sporting capital of australia ( you will learn to love AFL)
Abso-freakin'-lutely! AFL has got it all over US football!
1. Better looking and much more fit players;
2. Much smaller uniforms (kind of half-way between Rugby and Soccer) with no pads;
3. Far, FAR more fun to watch because as in basketball, once the ball is in play they keep playing until someone scores. None of this stopping the whole game every time the ball changes possession from one team to the other as in US football.
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8724 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3643 times:
Quoting TSS (Reply 11): 2. Much smaller uniforms (kind of half-way between Rugby and Soccer) with no pads;
I second that, how many other sports can you think of where the players, in uniform, look like they are just about to head out to a gay dance party? I have absolutely no idea of the rules, but I don't really think that has any relevance to enjoyment of the spectacle.
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
Braybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 6083 posts, RR: 30
Reply 13, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3625 times:
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 12): Quoting TSS (Reply 11):
2. Much smaller uniforms (kind of half-way between Rugby and Soccer) with no pads;
I second that, how many other sports can you think of where the players, in uniform, look like they are just about to head out to a gay dance party? I have absolutely no idea of the rules, but I don't really think that has any relevance to enjoyment of the spectacle
Don't they pull each other's shorts down as well?
Comparing multiculturalism in NY and Melbourne is like comparing apples and oranges. They are very different cities. But you'll find Melbourne is as multicultural as you can get for a modern city of its size. It's very liberal and very gay. You just don't get the hugely influential and poisonous religious right wing politics that is so pervasive in the States.
bananaboy From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 1604 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3613 times:
Hmm - haven't as yet enjoyed AFL, but perhaps I am trying to appreciate it for more than it is. Taking the approach of "fitties in little shorts" might make the game more enjoyable. I shall have to give it another go.
Australia is a great place to live - moved here with the husband just over a year ago and really liking it.
Quoting gigneil (Thread starter): Access to homosexuals, a liberal culture, cuisine, and nightlife required.
You'll have access to all of the above in large and varied quantities in Melbourne. Melbourne doesn't have the "Kodak-moment" appeal that Sydney does, but has, in many respects, much more to offer. I think it would be hard to not like living there, though I think I'll always prefer Sydney - each to their own.
A couple of pieces of advice that I'd give you, from experience:
Cost of living - Coming from the UK, most things feel more expensive here. Coming from the US, nearly everything will feel more expensive. Living very near the CBD, that will of course have an effect, but with a relatively small population (when compared to the size of land), competition in many industries is not as strong as you would be used to. Being paid in AUD will make it easier, but I still baulk at the price of certain everyday items, particularly groceries. Some items do seem to be pretty good value, such as certain electronic items, public transport (at least in Sydney) and, most importantly, sushi restaurants.
Rent - Not sure of the situation in Melbourne, but it's crazy in Sydney. Demand is much higher than supply, so prices are high and competition is tough. I went to one viewing with 9 other couples, all organised with folios containing (presumably) bank statements, letters of reference from employers etc. It's a market geared very much in favour of the landlord. Knowing what we know now, salary negotiations may have taken a slightly different course. As I said, could be completely different down there, but could be good to be prepared if you do get the job and make the move.
Distance - I know it sounds obvious, but be prepared at some point to feel a long way away from "home". I have felt at times very much at home, at others like I'm living on a different planet.
Climate - It rains here. No one tells you this. It also gets cold. Again, no one mentions this. I blame Oprah and Crocodile Dundee. On the flip, it also gets toasty warm. And bloody hot too.
Creatures - Everything here that crawls, swims, or flies wants to poison you or eat you. Remember that and you'll be fine. During my first month, there was a spider so big, I heard it walking before I saw it.
Car - There's a damn fine car share scheme in Sydney, and am pretty sure there's one in Melbourne. I've no need to own a car here (literally live next door to the station), but it's handy for the occasional trip to an out-of-town store, or down the coast.
Early starts - Melbourne will have slightly longer summer evenings than here, but one thing I've noticed is that many seem to do a whole lot very early, before work. I lived in Manly (where else? ) for a while and would often see people playing tennis at 6.30 in the morning, presumably before work. The beach would be busy with walkers, joggers, speedos and wetsuits. There aren't long evenings like I am used to so, and even in the summer, the sun sets around 8.00 so I guess it makes sense to do stuff before work.
I'm very lucky to be living here and I really do like the place. Climate is great save for about 4 weeks of the very humid stuff, it's very much an outdoor culture and things feel pretty laid back. The economy seems to be doing well and getting paid in AUD at the moment is very good indeed.
My mother in law asked if we'd stay here. I said that Australia wouldn't have been the first choice for us, but we're glad we're here. Nothing against Australia, but we wouldn't chose to move somewhere so far from nephews, nieces and other family members. Seeing as the US doesn't recognise our relationship, and won't for the foreseeable future, we thought we'd give it a go here, and we're so so glad we did.
All my life, I've been kissing, your top lip 'cause your bottom one's missing
You will find access aplenty. Sydney certainly has the bigger, glitzier gay scene, but you will have absolutely no trouble finding willing males with which to have relations. (Also, Sydney is only an hour and anywhere from $50 - $200 away - perfect for that weekend party trip, should such things interest you.)
Put it this way: I'm gay, have lived in Melbourne my entire life and have never had any trouble making friends who are also gay, nor have I ever been short of relationship material.
As has already been mentioned, we enjoy an incredibly liberal society. No issues there. I suspect that the nature of political debate here is not nearly as toxic (if I may use that term) as it is in the USA, however that's probably not saying much either.
Melbourne has the best restaurants in Australia. Anyone who tells you otherwise is speaking nonsense. Wonderful array of eateries/cafes and drinking outlets to choose from. I can offer many specific recommendations should you end up here.
Well, what sort of nightlife are we talking about? I'm more of a live music, cosy bar/pub sort of guy. If you are too, you will not get bored in Melbourne (again, I can offer specific recommendations). If you're more of a doof-doof nightclub kind of guy, I'm led to believe that we have plenty of options there too, but I'm not really much of an authority in that area.
Quoting zhiao (Reply 1): Much less multiculturalism vs most US cities.
That may well be the case, particularly if we're comparing Melbourne to New York City, however Melbourne is still an incredibly multicultural city, probably the most multicultural in the country (Sydney wouldn't be far behind). It also depends on your location in Melbourne. Where I live, for example, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who is a white UK-descendant Australian. It's all European / Asian / Sudanese / Middle Eastern (myself included). But, yes, travel to the eastern suburbs and they're all Smiths and Joneses.
Melbourne has benefited greatly from multiculturalism - these culinary and cultural delights I and others have spoken of would probably be non-existent without it.
Quoting bananaboy (Reply 14): Climate - It rains here. No one tells you this. It also gets cold. Again, no one mentions this. I blame Oprah and Crocodile Dundee. On the flip, it also gets toasty warm. And bloody hot too.
Melbourne's climate can be frustratingly variable, but you'll get used to that. Those 40C summer days are a bit of a nightmare, but thankfully there are only a handful of them (if that) each year. Our winters are cold and grey, but you've probably experienced far colder in your fair country anyway. Our springs and autumns are (mostly) wonderful.
- Rent can be stupidly expensive.
- Transport can be cumbersome if you live in the outer suburbs. Stick to the inner suburban area (i.e. within 10km of the CBD) and you'll be fine. Trams are your friend.
- It's not anywhere near as 'pretty' as Sydney.
- It may at times feel small and provincial, particularly if you're used to the metropolises of the east coast of the USA.
Overall, I think Melbourne is a glorious place and I love living here. I've been lucky enough to travel the world and live for short stints in other countries - Melbourne always compares favourably for the things that I like and want out of life (obviously others may feel differently).
When I die, when I die, I'll rot. But when I live, when I live, I'll give it all I've got.
Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 7):
The cuisine is generally outstanding and diverse. Shopping is also fantastic, and public transport is considered good compared to most similar sized cities.
Very true, the trains just need to run on time more. Especially the Frankston line.
Quoting zhiao (Reply 8): Melbourne can't compare with most US large cities in terms of multiculturalism. NYC? Miami? LA? SF? Chi? DC? Bos? Sea? Philly? Probably Houston has more diversity. Sure Melbourne may be more multicultural than Atlanta and Dallas. But then compare Perth to Atl, and Atl has
Have you been here? It can't necessarily compete with all of the big US cities but Melbourne can compete with cities of similar sizes.
747m8te From Australia, joined Aug 2008, 484 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3509 times:
Quoting gigneil (Thread starter): Pros and cons, please. Access to homosexuals, a liberal culture, cuisine, and nightlife required. Requiring a vehicle must not be required, as we know I'm a treehugger.
I used to live in Melbourne, and I must say it would cater for all your requirements above.
Decent size city, 4 million odd people, very liberal, very very multicultural (really as multicultural as you will find any large city in the US) ...from greeks (huge population base), italians, maltese through to indians, chinese, malaysian communites...really in most parts of the city you will find they out number typical english decendants, the only exception...as some have stated the outer eastern suburbs...
Cost - Average for Australian cities, i've lived in a number of cites around the country and would say cost of living is quite reasonable in comparison. I was renting, a modern spacious two bedroom unit with garage $260 a week (this was back in 2009).
Transport - Very very extensive public transport network, with good train system and huge tram network with lots of frequencies. I had a car but only used it for my 5 min drive to work (which was at the airport...which is the only area I would say is lacking in public transport access, the skybus to and from the cbd is great, but anywhere else to the airport isn't as easy). But apart from the drive to work, my car was never needed, I lived inna suburb called niddrie near airport west, lived right near a tramline, with a train station not far away in Essendon.
Cuisine - Omg this is Melboures real deal! fantastic for foodies. Nothing beats a night on Lygon street! or breakfast at one of the many cafes up the alleys off flinders lane
Sport - I'm not a huge sports fan, but Melbourne would have to be the place to be in Australia for sports nuts!
Homosexuals and nightlife - Again, its all happening here, good choice of bars and clubs in varying locations around the city, you won't be disapointed hehe.
Treehugger friendly - You will be very happy, not only is the public transport network extensive, city also supports bike lane networks throughout the city for those wanting to cycle
Its also been recently voted as one of the most livable cities in the world.
Why did I move? work was one factor, the other was personal. But the only downside I would say is the weather...in winter very cold (well by Australian standards...anyone from the northern hemisphere would call us all a bunch of wusses), in summer the weather can be extreme, can be cold some days like only 16degC ...yet other days 46degC!
Quoting bananaboy (Reply 14): Rent - Not sure of the situation in Melbourne, but it's crazy in Sydney. Demand is much higher than supply, so prices are high and competition is tough.
SYD's crazy rent is, I suspect, partly due to the public transportation system! I'd rather take the ferry than the bus or train when there's a choice!
Quoting bookishaviator (Reply 15): Melbourne is still an incredibly multicultural city, probably the most multicultural in the country (Sydney wouldn't be far behind).
Hahaha! Sydney is crazy! I spent over an hour at a bank when trying to open a USD account... because I'm from where my flag indicates... now, the white guys wouldn't want to serve me because they feared I didn't speak English, so they gave me to a Cantonese guy, who then realized I was not a Cantonese, who then passed me to a Mandarin guy, who also realized I was not a Mandarin, he then passed me to a Vietnamese guy, who then realized I was not Vietnamese, and he passed me back to the Whitey, who then wondered why he saw me again... and repeated the cycle, at which point I called the manager and wondered what kind of circus show they were pulling there...
And oh, when I could spend a week in Uni in SYD without speaking a word of English (spoke Indonesian for the whole of that particular week), yes, it's "multicultural enough", at least the lectures were still in English, otherwise I'd ask for a refund!
Melbourne, is more multicultural, and not as ridiculous as Sydney!
If you're a tree hugger, MEL is much better than SYD!
I left Australia 10 yrs ago (gave up my residency) because I got bored, but I blame Sydney for it... But one of my regrets was not to give Melbourne a chance ! Because...
Quoting 747m8te (Reply 17): Its also been recently voted as one of the most livable cities in the world.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
chrisrad From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1079 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3464 times:
Cost of living can be expensive here, though if you are earning well then it will be less of an issue, just don't expect USA prices on groceries, or utilities for that matter, especially Electricity.
Weather well it can be cold in winter, however no snow in the city, coldest overnight temp would not be lower than 30F and even that only on a few nights. Average day temps would be around 55-57F in winter. Summer can be hit or miss, either cool or few days heatwave up to around 107F, the worst part is the famous Melbourne "cool change" when you can go from 107 to 64 in 20 mins.
Melbourne is definitely the cultural capital of Australia, we have all sorts of shows, musicals, theatre, opera, concerts, major international sporting events, Formula 1 etc. going on all the time.
Food/restaurants as everyone else has pointed out is plentiful and everywhere. But again don't expect USA prices, eating out is not cheap. Melbourne has a huge cafe culture.
Disadvantages? Probably we are one of the furthest cities from anywhere in the world. Closest international destinations(excluding NZ) are Bali, SIN (7 hours), KUL (8 hours), BKK (9 hours).
Melbourne is very multi-cultural, we have a very large international student population as well. I don't where people get the impression we are not. Australia like the US, is made up of immigrants.
To sum up, we have won Worlds most Liveable city on numerous occasions for good reason.
It's a great place to live, in one of the best countries to live in (used to live there a couple years ago, and still visit regularly).
When it comes to your requirements, eg. night life, then really there is only Sydney, Melbourne and possibly Gold Coast to choose from in Australia.
I would recommend living in the St. Kilda area (and surrounding suburbs). Good night life, close to city, good place to live, but possibly a bit expensive.
I'm sure you'll enjoy it there.
When it comes to homosexuality and liberal culture, I don't know much, but Australia in general is quite liberal, and although gay marriage isn't legal (yet), homosexuality is very accepted. It is no worse than any other place to say it that way.
melpax From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 1721 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (3 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3412 times:
As others have said, Melbourne is very multi-cultural, there would not be a country that wouldn't have one of it's citizens living here.
As far as living costs, remember that the tipping culture is not what it is in the US - you wouldn't normally tip someone at a pub bistro, or a 'normal' resturant, tipping is normally only expected at the top end establishments with top-class service, and even then people will only normally tip if they get good service. You wouldn't go tipping a hardresser, etc either.
There are lots of cheap & cheerful places to eat though, mainly asian, but a lot of of the pubs run special deals on meals during the week.
Public transport is good, especially in the city & inner suburbs. I'd say you'd proably be working in the city, so if you're living either in the CBD or inner suburbs, taking the train or tram would be very easy, and there wouldn't be much need for a car. But you might find that if you want to go exploring on the weekends, a car would be convient. But there are good public transport links to most of the country areas by train or bus, and there are a few car share schemes going.
I've noticed the rents have come down a bit over the past few months, you can get a studo/1 bedroom apartment in the CBD or within walking distance for under $300 a week, more with a car space.
While I agree on that I heard (I don't know if its true) that VB is made in Queensland and the Victoria in it isn't named after the state but is named after Queen Victoria.
However there are some really good microbreweries that make some good beers. I really like Mountain Goat from Richmond and White Rabbit from the Yarra Valley.
The best mass produced beers in Australia are from WA and SA being Little Creatures and Coppers respectively.
Quoting 747m8te (Reply 17): well by Australian standards...anyone from the northern hemisphere would call us all a bunch of wusses
I tell everyone that who complained this past winter, I'm from YYZ originally.
Quoting chrisrad (Reply 21): Disadvantages? Probably we are one of the furthest cities from anywhere in the world. Closest international destinations(excluding NZ) are Bali, SIN (7 hours), KUL (8 hours), BKK (9 hours).
I would give that crown to Perth or Auckland instead of Melbourne.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
: I hear everyone bitching here about the cost of electricity so I was prepared for a shock from my first bill, but it's not been too bad. We've got a
: Very well then, lets see if these people actually call me back! Thanks for all the input, it does sound like it would be a fun adventure! NS
: I have visited Melbourne a few times. I like the city, there is nice food, good public transportation and good nightlife. It gets very cold during the
: During summer, sunrise can be up to 7.30AM, but sunset is around 9.30 PM, so you'll see people hit the parks & beaches after work if it's a nice
: I do have to say there are some challenges. For example, I don't know how I feel about ANY of the pay TV services! There do seem to be a large number
: VB is brewed in Melbourne by Carlton and United Beverages from a recipe originally brewed by Melbournian Thomas C. Moore. It is not from Queensland.
: Perth has a pretty good balance IMO. In my family alone there were Scots, real Aussies, a South African, and the newest addition is from Japan. We ev
: I enjoy a multicultural environment. I can't wait to eat at Billy Kwong's in Sydney, I am very partial to Asian cuisines of all types (although I have
: There's a lot of 'gourmet' pub food happening these days, although the good old chicken parma never dies. What is it with Victoria's obsession with p
: There was a time when VB (or, even better, MB) was much preferred to the urine that is Fosters (don't know that Fosters is even brewed in Oz any long
: Little Creatures is getting up there as well.
: If a pub dining room can't get a parma right, you know that it's more than likely that the rest of the menu is pretty ordinary, if the parma's a good
: Ah my hometown beer! hehe must say when I was in Seattle a few months back I had to have a Boags at Outback Streak House (...btw, why don't we have O
: MEL people are good looking, very nice and very friendly I've ever met. Yes of course they are GOOOOOOD people. I'm sure you won't be disappointed and
: I lived in Melbourne for a year quite recently. Fantastic place, especially if you live in the inner suburbs around the southeast or east of the CBD.
: Australia is good, stable but extremely expensive. The cost of living would be 3-4 times that of the most major cities in the states. You will earn a