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Documentary Of US 'war Crimes' Shocks Europe  
User currently offlineKAUSPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1958 posts, RR: 33
Posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 8003 times:

This article was interesting:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=3&art_id=qw1023894901416B265&set_id=1

apparently some leftist German group is being allowed to show their anti-American films to the German parliament. This is frustrating to me as an American. I love Germany and like seeing relations between our two countries as friendly as they can be. Why all the sympathy for the terrorists? It's not as if they "massacred" a few thousand Americans or anything. I wonder if international law says anything about blowing up a few skyscrapers filled with 3,000 civilians? IMO this kind of thing only breeds contempt for the US and it is simply not in the US military protocol to carry out Nazi style extermination sessions. I hope this is not taken too seriously by the German people, but deep down I know it will be. I sincerely hope that the Germans are able to see through this kind of propaganda......show me some graves then I'll believe this garbage.

Here's to long lasting friendship between Germany and the USA.

97 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2898 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7961 times:

Keep in mind, it might as well be true! There is a film that says that US-American soldiers have massacred 3,000 people - what do you expect us to do? Shall we say "Ooohh, they're US-American, they're our friends, we love them so much - this film is not true!" or what? Come on, give us an evidence that the film is NOT true.

User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7950 times:

Actually, I haven't anything abot this film in the German media. And nobody takes the foreign politics of the PDS serious anyway, they are against everything and everybody. The PDS is the successor of the ruling party in the GDR, the SED, parts of them are communists.

User currently offlineBanco From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 14752 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 7937 times:

Besides which, it hardly "shocks Europe" does it. The rest of us tend not to pay particularly close attention to minor German parties and their activity in the Bundestag.


She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7920 times:

PDS is the (former) East German communist party. They've never forgiven the USA (who they blame) for the destruction of their powerbase and the reunification.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7906 times:

Come on, give us an evidence that the film is NOT true.

That must be the difference between us and you. Here, the person making the accusations must prove them to be fact. Innocent until proven guilty.In your world, whatever anyone says is fact and it is up to the accused to prove them wrong.

Your world runs on rage, emotion and innuendo. Ours on justice. I'll take ours.



User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2898 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7906 times:

I didn't say that the US are necessarily guilty. But you're telling me that I should not believe the film, just because of our "long lasting friendship"...
I didn't see the film, but when somebody suspects the US Army to massacre thousands of people, it's too simple to say "...it is simply not in the US military protocol to carry out Nazi style extermination sessions". No matter if the film was shown by PDS or whomever - an investigation would make it clear if those massacres are true or not, but telling me about the WTC victims does not help at all!


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7893 times:

Heavymetal: Your world runs on rage, emotion and innuendo. Ours on justice. I'll take ours.

You´re joking, right?  Wink/being sarcastic

First of all, the friendship between our nations fortunately goes much too deep to be wrecked that easily.

But I´d be very, very careful talking about "justice" right now. Especially with US congress just approving a bill that would urge the president to invade Holland if US citizens were to be indicted before the international war crimes tribunal . Broken treaties and commitments littering this administration´s path left and right.

The american calls for revenge, for murdering and torturing Afghans in this very forum are the other side. As understandable as the feeling may have been, they make it at least plausible that there may have been transgressions committed by US troops during the past few months (although I still hope there weren´t any).

I don´t believe any of the allegations unless they are actually proven. But if there is any concrete evidence (which I don´t know so far), it must be investigated.


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7891 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Typical thread, another topic to do with anti-US or vice versa. Hardly big news.


In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7891 times:

Oh boy, some leftist freaks in Europe are bashing the U.S. Nothing new there. I still wonder why the U.S wants to have anything to do with Europe except for Great Britain. All most of Europe does bash the U.S. whenever possible and blame us for all the ills of the world.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7856 times:

Klaus-

That would be funny if the USA invaded Holland, if it happened I bet a few US Army divisions would get sidetracked in the Red Light District.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7848 times:

Well, I thing its wrong to fight against murders and being a murder it self...

You can't claim something bad to one and when you have done the same (or similar) thing before.

I don't need a Video or Movie to know that there where quite a lot bad moves in the US History. Especially in Asia the USA killed many people (I'm not talking about VC, I mean civilians!). Well, I don't want to say that everything was bad, I only say that you shouldn't claim it on others when you are not better.

But this has been discussed many times and I'm sure anyway that none of you US guys will understand it, I just keep in mind of the people suffering and the one killed, in the USA or/and everywhere else, just because it is bad...



Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7843 times:

Keep in mind, it might as well be true!

Keep in mind, it's probably a bunch of left-wing bullshit.

I don´t believe any of the allegations unless they are actually proven. But if there is any concrete evidence (which I don´t know so far), it must be investigated.

But you certianly give creedence to the report, simply by the way you responded, Klaus. And if this does turn out to be the idiocy I'm sure it is, who has damaged the friendship between the U.S. and Germany? And based on the whims of a left-wing fringe group, the European Parliament is going to look into this? And you don't think the E.U. is a Socialist-Leaning entity? Riight.

I don't need a Video or Movie to know that there where quite a lot bad moves in the US History.

Really, Swissgabe? Boy, what a revelation! EVERY country had done shameful things over the years-Germany tops the list in the 20th Century, doesn't it? Seems to me like you have decided to believe this report at face value. Typical.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7829 times:

We could use another invasion. Maybe that would wake the politicos up that we've gone too far destroying our defenses and associated industry...
First trooper one on the ground gets a free beer  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7817 times:

BTW, the movie wasn't shown to the German parliament but just in the private rooms of the party "PDS" inside the Reichstag, which also houses the Bundestag.

User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7777 times:

Given the US' record in Vietnam and other conflicts, I thought it was well established that they - along with all other nations at war - do perpetrate war crimes? Just look at the British bombing of Dresden! However, as the victor, not only do the spoils belong to you but also the right to write the history books.

Anyone who denies this is incredibly naive!


User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7785 times:

The Americans did whatever they wanted

They always do anyway. That's why they have so much troubles I guess.



Falcon....like a limo but with wings
User currently offlineNdebele From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 2898 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7774 times:

You surely won't make many friends with such a statement, OO-AOG. But in a way you're right.

User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7758 times:

Don't get it wrong Ndebele, I have nothing against American people. It's only their government that has (often) an unacceptable behaviour and a lot of hypocrisy.



Falcon....like a limo but with wings
User currently offlineKAUSPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1958 posts, RR: 33
Reply 19, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7748 times:

The same could be said of any government anywhere at anytime OO-AOG. As long as humans run any government there will always be problems. All humans, especially politicians, have ambition and financial motivations. These drives have a tendncy to override a politician's sense of integrity, depending on the situation. Because the US government is so high profile on the world stage it takes a lot of criticism from global media. I am not aware of your country of origin but I can safely say it's no utopian model either, since there is no perfection yet to be found in an existing governmental system.

Overall I see no reason why the US would want to commit or allow "massacres" in afghanistan. The whole point of going in there was to "win over" the populace so to speak. We wanted to oust the terrorist regime and put into place a government who would cooperate with the US and create a more democratic system. We didn't go in as "revenge", but only to protect ourselves from further threats by the taliban/al queda. If we wanted revenge we could've just nuked the whole country off the face of the planet, why risk sending ground troops in if revenge is the sole motivation? No, these hypothetical "atrocities" would only further solidify opposition to the US among afhganis, when in fact, the US is seeking to gain support among the afghan people. It's common sense. The US military has changed drastically since Vietnam, and it is now DEFINITELY a policy to eliminate civilian casualties and so called "collateral damage".


User currently offlineLeftseat86 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7734 times:

KAUSPPilot, I totally agree. SAS23, why don't you bash Japan for not delving into WW2 history in the textbooks issued to students there? At least I'm from a country where history is (99% of the time) told as it is...
-Clovis At least I know we dropped A-bombs in Japan, and understand the horrible suffering those caused...


User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4150 posts, RR: 37
Reply 21, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7716 times:

Leftseat, are you sure about your history books? I haven´t seen anything about the Korea- or Vietnamwar in it, only the "clean" Gulfwar wasdescribed in extend. And the colonial times of the 18/19th century haven´t appeared there, too.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineClipperhawaii From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2033 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7706 times:

The best thing about this whole subject is that we all deep down inside know that these allegations are false. I do like it when I see people here selectively pick out things in history and twist them around for their own personal agenda. I must remind you that your actions are shallow and people can see thru to the bottom of the murky water you seem to live in. You know who you are!
Aloha my friends!



"You Can't Beat The Experience"
User currently offlineLeftseat86 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7692 times:

What the heck are you talking about!!!?!?!?! Where did you go to school! In my Houghton&Mifflin History/Social Studies book from last year we covered the 2nd world War,The Korean War, The Vietnam War (Including the peace movements and protests +the causes and consequences), the 50s Black segregation era (Martin Luther King, etc...), and the Great Depression...
-Clovis


User currently offlinePendrilsaint From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7684 times:

Yeah , where in the hell are you getting your textbooks from? Mine was written for Univ. of Chicago...there is well over a page on the massacre at Mai Lai during Vietnam...there are sections where the book is critical of the U.S. for delayed involvement in WWII...and even sections where our bombing tactics in Vietnam were criticised...Maybe you're just using the 1960's version textbooks or something=P

25 SAS23 : Don't forget that Vietnam was effectively airbrushed out of US history until it was 'rehabilitated' by President Reagan. Given Mai Lai, there can be n
26 Scorpio : Alpha 1, Keep in mind, it's probably a bunch of left-wing bullshit. Why? And if this does turn out to be the idiocy I'm sure it is, who has damaged th
27 Post contains images Capt.Picard : I agree with much of what KAUS said. Humans are fallible, and will make bad and irrational decisions; on the other hand, they will make bad and ration
28 ILOVEA340 : They have their right to show it and hey you never know it its true or not... You can't just jump to conclusions... once they prove it is fake or wron
29 Donder10 : Is this anything to do with the American 'academic' who estimated that America had killed 3000 Afghan civilians without having stepped outside the US?
30 FDXmech : Don't forget that Vietnam was effectively airbrushed out of US history until it was 'rehabilitated' by President Reagan. What the heck does that mean?
31 Post contains images Alpha 1 : Don't get it wrong Ndebele, I have nothing against American people. It's only their government that has (often) an unacceptable behaviour and a lot of
32 PanAm747 : >>Don't forget that Vietnam was effectively airbrushed out of US history
33 Post contains links and images SAS23 : Looks like we in the UK will be able to judge for ourselves how true this is as the documentary is to be screened on British television next week acco
34 Capt.Picard : FDXmech When I say "what they think is best" or "what it likes" that means WHATEVER they like, benelovent or not. The point isn't whether a county's a
35 JETPILOT : I hope our soldiers did commit these "attrocities". Paybacks a bitch aint it? We need to follow the Geneva convention when these F*ckers are killing c
36 L-188 : Paybacks a bitch aint it? Damm straight. I love it when SAS23 is talking out of his fifth point of contact.
37 Klaus : JETPILOT: I hope our soldiers did commit these "attrocities". Paybacks a bitch aint it? We need to follow the Geneva convention when these F*ckers are
38 Marco : I think JETPILOT was referring to the terrorists. Do you have a problem with the USA wiping out terrorists klaus?
39 PanAm747 : Capt.Picard- >>The latter is because a significant number of Americans believe it is their duty to be patriotic and defend their country from most, if
40 B757300 : Funny, Germany still hasn't come to terms with one of the three worst cases of attempted genocide in the last 100 years and the United States is being
41 PanAm747 : B757300- I think Germany came to terms with what happened there. There was a movement not long ago in Germany that tried to keep all mention of Nazis
42 Alpha 1 : No wonder the Yanks don't want to participate in the International Court ... they'd be first in the dock along with their Israeli allies! You're such
43 JETPILOT : The problem lies in the fact that they ARE trying to remove the German Nazi history from history books. History we forget we are doomed to repeat itse
44 Post contains images Marco : LOL jetpilot that was a good one!
45 Racko : "Funny, Germany still hasn't come to terms with one of the three worst cases of attempted genocide in the last 100 years and the United States is bein
46 Post contains images Alpha 1 : You don't know anything about Germany, moron. Wow, Racko, what a GREAT comeback! I mean, how long did it take you to think that up? Truth hurts. Far t
47 Marco : Very profound Racko. And you want people to take you seriously?
48 Klaus : Alpha 1: I think of the two, Germany HAS done a better job at dealing with their Hitler-led, Nazi past, than Japan has done in dealing with the atroci
49 Racko : Alpha1, Marco, how long have you lived in Germany ? You simply have no clue about today's Germany, you've seen some bad american movies with Germans s
50 Post contains images Ndebele : >> You simply have no clue about today's Germany, you've seen some bad american movies with Germans shouthing "Achtung, Blitzkrieg"
51 Ndebele : ps: No I do not want to deny the existence of Holocaust, I just do not see the value of watching unrealistic movies full of black-and-white portrayal
52 Prebennorholm : Documentary Of US 'war Crimes' Shocks Europe Wrong! I am European (Danish) and I am not shocked. Instead my Danish soldiers are working side by side w
53 Nik : "Funny, Germany still hasn't come to terms with one of the three worst cases of attempted genocide in the last 100 years" "But having said that, Germa
54 Post contains images Scorpio : Alpha 1, Consider he source-a far-left wing German group, formerlly with a stronghold in East Germany. Get a clue. So anything they say MUST be untrue
55 Post contains images Alpha 1 : You simply have no clue about today's Germany, you've seen some bad american movies with Germans shouthing "Achtung, Blitzkrieg" the whole day, and no
56 Scorpio : I stated my opinion. you bonehead From your earlier post: 'It's not true, Scorpio-I know in my heart of hearts this is just socialist propoganda. So,
57 Racko : Alpha 1, WHY don't you answer my question ? How long have you lived in Germany, so you can judge that we try to hide the Nazi-past ? Ok, let me answer
58 Clipperhawaii : "Neither my troops nor American troops (or any other NATO troops) are working that way. It is all pure crap." "American friends, please ignore this cr
59 Scorpio : Clipperhawaii, U.S. atrocities in Afghanistan...yeah right, give us all a break and crawl back into your murky holes. Just plain pathetic all of you w
60 Alpha 1 : That's not an opinion, you clearly state it as a fact. Lunacy at its best... ANYTHING on here, that's not put with a corroborating link, bonehead, is
61 Post contains images Klaus : Alpha 1: And who the hell said ANYTHING about "hiding the Holocaust"? I've never said that. Your earlier post: Alpha 1: Germany still tries to sweep i
62 Scorpio : ANYTHING on here, that's not put with a corroborating link, bonehead, is SOMEONE'S OPINION. I STATE IT AS MY OPINION. Get that through your thick skul
63 Post contains images Alpha 1 : Klaus, all you've become is an apologist for everything European, good, bad, or indifferent. You don't even sound convincing anymore. At one time, I t
64 Scorpio : If you had half a brain, and red a few books, you'd understand that "your lights' are your beliefs. That make it easier, bonehead? Funny how I, as som
65 Post contains images Klaus : Alpha 1: Klaus, all you've become is an apologist for everything European, good, bad, or indifferent. You don't even sound convincing anymore. At one
66 Post contains images Alpha 1 : Funny how I, as someone for whom English is not his mother-tongue, and who then does not understand an expression, should take a comment like that fro
67 Klaus : Alpha 1: Once again, no arguing the points, or the merits of what is being discussed-just personal insults. You're not even running anymore, Klaus, so
68 Clipperhawaii : Funny how it is always the same old people with the same old diatribe that "anything is possible", "don't discount it", If it has to do with mud sling
69 Klaus : When presented with the choice between "No, I won´t even look there; It just can´t be!" and "I don´t think so; But let´s check it out to be certai
70 Post contains images Clipperhawaii : You need to move on Sir and get over it. But before you do, ponder this. "No Klaus, you have never been to the moon. It can't be!" or "I don't think y
71 Klaus : Clipperhawaii: Some things are just a waste of time looking into. So a) it is for you. Don´t ask, don´t look. "No, there just can´t be bugs at the
72 Scorpio : Now it comes down to being hit because of grammatical errors, does it, Scorpio. Weak, my friend, very weak. If you can't beat me on arguments, then ju
73 Alpha 1 : You nearly killed me with that one! Too damn bad I failed. YOU accuse ME of not even having half a brain for not knowing an expression in a language t
74 Scorpio : Jeez man, I feel like I'm discussing things with a brick wall here. It seems like you don't even bother to read what I write, and have made up your mi
75 Post contains images Klaus : Ummm.. Alpha, I´m still waiting for some evidence of your accusations. This skirmish with Scorpio looks a lot like a welcome diversion...
76 Mx5_boy : Guys, Alpha1 regularly seems to accuse others on this forum as *boneheads* or other derogatory terms in his constant defence of "USA AOK"! His efforts
77 TechRep : "Young individuals caught up in struggle and emotion must make immediate decision's which history will judge by other standards. They act within that
78 Pacificjourney : techrep I read your post several times just to make sure I got what you were trying to say. Obviously, actions taken in the heat of the moment cannot
79 Alpha 1 : Ummm.. Alpha, I´m still waiting for some evidence of your accusations. Klausie, baby, then you'll wait till hell freezes over. I've told you what I'v
80 Post contains images Klaus : Alpha 1: Klausie, baby, then you'll wait till hell freezes over. So, we´re off to last resorts, I gather. Alpha 1: I've told you what I've told you-I
81 Alpha 1 : And yes, if you´re slandering my home country, I´ll indeed ask for evidence. Not an immediate excuse, just evidence. I´m increasingly getting the i
82 Klaus : Alpha 1: Slandering your home country? How? I said that Germany is doing what almost any other nation would do, and has done, when dealing with someth
83 PanAm747 : >>What I would like to see of Alpha1's comments is in regards to his own countries human rights issues. Those involving the horrendous amount of so ca
84 PHX-LJU : Alpha 1, You're losing all of your credibility this way. First you accuse Germany of ignoring the Holocaust. Then, when someone challenges your view,
85 TechRep : PacificJourney, The UCMJ, The Uniform Code Of Military Justice and your peers (soldiers) would be the ones who judge you NOT civilians. You have a rig
86 Donder10 : Also,I haven't seen much of a fuss about it in the UK.But may be different on the Continent
87 Alpha 1 : Alpha 1, You're losing all of your credibility this way. First you accuse Germany of ignoring the Holocaust. First off, if I lose "credibility" with t
88 Post contains images Klaus : Alpha 1: First off, if I lose "credibility" with this crowd, big friggin' deal. A good portion of you don't know what credibility is to begin with. We
89 PHX-LJU : Alpha 1 wrote: >>"Secondly, for the umpteenth time, I said Germany has done a decent job in dealing with, but like just about any other nation, they t
90 Pacificjourney : techrep Sorry but I did misunderstand your original post, you really do just want revenge. In claiming that "Discipline of our troops is without quest
91 TechRep : You damn right I want revenge!! My friend was stabbed in the throat by an Iraqi soldier, from which the Iraqi concealed under his clothing; When Nate
92 TechRep : Wait, I got to thinking about in a politically correct world how this event should have been handled. Nate got stabbed but he couldn't prove who the s
93 Pacificjourney : I had really given these alleged killings no credence, until you started talking, now I'm not so sure. How do you know Nate and friends are telling th
94 Alpha 1 : How do you know Nate and friends are telling the truth the way it really happened ? How the hell do you know they're not, Pacificjourney? That's one o
95 Pacificjourney : Alpha Clearly I don't know what happened, nor do you and my point, obviously was that neither does techrep. He was justifying murder on the basis of e
96 TechRep : Well since Nate has a small 1"sq scar on the left side of his throat and about a 3"sq scar on the right side, it is a painful reminder. Pacific someti
97 Pacificjourney : You won't find me a Japan apologist one little bit, I really don't know where you get that from. i am not Japanese and never will be. I am intimately
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