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Occupy Wall Street 'Demands'  
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5400 posts, RR: 14
Posted (2 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 5650 times:

It appears that the folks a running Occupy Wall Street have finally released a list of demands...and is this list a doozy.

1. Restoration of a living wage by eliminating free trade agreements, imposing import tariffs and raising the minimum wage to $20/hour.
Really? A return to isolationism will increase our quality of life? Oh yeah, who pays the $20/hr, but, I guess that's covered in 3. The truth is, you really don't need to work.

2. Create a single payer healthcare system while eliminating all private insurers.
Because the government is so good at being its own monopoly in anything.

3. Guaranteed living wage regardless of employment status.
Do I really need to say anything about this?

4. Free College Education
Ok, I can live with this with conditions. Prove that you can succeed in college. Maintain a 'B' average. If you flunk out, you pay for what you wasted. Of course there are concerns because there will be immediate tuition inflation by the schools.

5. End the fossil fuel economy while bringing the alternative fuel economy online.
Ok, find me an alternative fuel that can do what fossil can do as efficiently.

6. One trillion in infrastructure
Poof, here's a trillion dollars.

7. One trillion to restore the ecology
Once again, poof, here's a trillion.

8. Racial and gender equal rights amendment
I'll need more explanation here. There are so many laws on the books now, it would just be stupidly redundant.

9. Open borders migration
Ok, doesn't that kind of contradict #1? So anyone can go anywhere? Wow, that'll be fun.

10. Bring American elections up to international standards.
Bush stole the election is still their rallying cry. Though, I do believe that there should be a paper trail.

11. Across the board debt forgiveness
Awesome.

12. Outlaw credit reporting agencies
Really no need for them if you eliminate all debts.

13. Unionization
As far as I know, their demand is currently federal law.

Wow, I'm not sure if this is tongue in cheek or not, but I fear it is the truth. The people that put this list together really do not live in our world. They believe that life can be better simply by government fiat.

Just thought I should share.


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
289 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 5642 times:

They are proposed demands, not anything set in stone. Though the list is definitely excessive both in quantity of demands and practicality of a couple of them, some of them are good ideas that should at least be explored instead of dismissed with a snarky comment.

Which I'm sure the commenters on "FOX Nation" are more than willing to do.  



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7952 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 5640 times:

Hm, there's a newer list on the campaign website that does not read like a freak show and is not partially contradictory.
First and foremost, it is more focussed:

http://occupywallst.org/forum/propos...demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlinewukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 8 hours ago) and read 5634 times:

Damn! The only rational thing that I see in that list is #10. All the rest... wow!

If this is what it's coming down to, here is what I want... a box that I can lay in and rest in the dirt for eternity, or at least until someone digs me up to build a Wal Mart.

Goddamn train wreck is what we have here.



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8838 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 3 hours ago) and read 5591 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 2):
Hm, there's a newer list on the campaign website that does not read like a freak show and is not partially contradictory.

Both lists are on their website. They don't know what they want. Guaranteed $20/hour, whether or not you work, AND open borders? That'll work well...



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4008 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 3 hours ago) and read 5577 times:

What were you expecting from these idiots, consistency? Just look at the below link.

http://www.metro.us/newyork/local/ar...downtown-taken-over-by-living-dead

The protesters mocked corporate jobs even as they continued to voice discontent over unemployment.

“It’s not just corporate people,” said 22-year-old Alex Krales. “A lot of us feel that it is our duty to make money all the time and completely ignore any other needs we have in life. I just quit my full-time job that had literally sucked away my soul because I felt like I needed to make money.”

So you are protesting against unemployment and you just quit a job you had because it was boring and did not "fulfill" you? I wonder what demand #14 will be, that all jobs must be rewarding and allow people to "express their inner selves"?



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 3 hours ago) and read 5570 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Both lists are on their website. They don't know what they want. Guaranteed $20/hour, whether or not you work, AND open borders? That'll work well...

How dare they have a forum with open discussions??

Airliners.net demands list

1. Ban hats!

Fox News: Airliners.net community demands the banning of hats. Conservatives outraged!


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8838 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 2 hours ago) and read 5552 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 6):
How dare they have a forum with open discussions??

Chill out. Can't we have a laugh?

These jokers are morons. If they think that they have any credibility whatsoever, they are mistaken.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 5):
“It’s not just corporate people,” said 22-year-old Alex Krales. “A lot of us feel that it is our duty to make money all the time and completely ignore any other needs we have in life. I just quit my full-time job that had literally sucked away my soul because I felt like I needed to make money.”

Case in point. These folks think that it is their right to earn plenty of money doing something they love to do, like playing guitar or hanging out in the park.

To quote educator and author Charles Sykes:

Rule 1. Life is not fair; get used to it.

Rule 2. The world won't care about your self esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.

Rule 3. You will NOT make $40,000 a year right out of high school. You won't be a vice president with a car phone, until you earn both.

Rule 4. If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss. He doesn't have tenure.

Rule 5. Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grandparents had a different word for burger flipping; they called it opportunity.

Rule 6. If you mess up, it's not your parents' fault, so don't whine about your mistakes, learn from them.

Rule 7. Before you were born, your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about how cool you are. So before you save the rain forest from the parasites of your parents' generation, try "debugging" the closet in your own room.

Rule 8. Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life has not. In some schools they have abolished failing grades; they'll give you as many times as you want to get the right answer. This doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.

Rule 9. Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off and very few employers are interested in helping you find yourself. Do that on your own time.

Rule 10. Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.

Rule 11. Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 2 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

This mocking, outraged reaction kind of reminds me of how my side of the aisle sounded when the Tea Party first showed up, and we all know how that went. Granted, the demographics of the protesters are different.

User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8838 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 1 hour ago) and read 5528 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 8):
This mocking, outraged reaction kind of reminds me of how my side of the aisle sounded when the Tea Party first showed up, and we all know how that went. Granted, the demographics of the protesters are different.

And that makes all the difference. The Tea Party protests were made up, for the most part, by taxpayers. With jobs. The reason the Tea Party never did such a long-lasting protest in front of the Capitol is that they had to back to work on Monday.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinesan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months ago) and read 5492 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):

Yeah, to hell with their idealism! What delusional, naive idiots they are for passionately fighting for a cause they think is important!! Goddamn it, its in-American!!!

Everything I hear from conservatives (most of whom CLEARLY do not remember what it was like to be young) is that this generation is apathetic and selfish and unwilling to sacrifice and work hard and not interested in important issues. Then something like this happens and conservatives call them jokes/morons with no credibility. Sounds like most of you are upset that some kids in this generation turned out liberal.

Oh and by the way, though there may be spoiled brats among the ranks (hipster kids of rich parents, whom I can't stand as much as everyone else), I have plenty of friends, even in this bad economy, who are/have worked fast food jobs (including myself) to pay through college. All but 3 of my friends who have their Bachelors degree have jobs paying over $50,000 yearly. Every school I've ever been to, even in big bad liberal brainwashing California has had failing grades, and I even earned one in high school.

I'm sure it felt good to copy and paste that guy's quotes and feel a sense of superiority over us shitty, spoiled and ungrateful kids, but the truth is that the amount of people my age who really need to be knocked over the head with that crap is almost zero. I know this might make your brain explode- but our generation is really not any different than yours. We believe in the value of hard work and accomplishment, but we also care about the well-being of others on our community and country.



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months ago) and read 5494 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
1. Restoration of a living wage by eliminating free trade agreements, imposing import tariffs and raising the minimum wage to $20/hour.
Really? A return to isolationism will increase our quality of life? Oh yeah, who pays the $20/hr, but, I guess that's covered in 3. The truth is, you really don't need to work

$20/hr is a ridiculous living wage standard but our current minimum wage standard could use some improvement.

Tariffs are a terrible idea though we need to put more pressure on countries like China to stop currency manipulation

I would like to see special tax breaks available to companies that produce jobs in America. Give those companies a huge break on taxes, like lower the rate to the 15-20% effective range (current is about 35% right?) and let companies that ship jobs over seas pay their current tax rate. Let foreign companies that set up shop here enjoy the lower tax rate as well.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
2. Create a single payer healthcare system while eliminating all private insurers.
Because the government is so good at being its own monopoly in anything.

Agreed, though health care reforms needs to happen but this has more to do with all the frivolous law suits that greatly increase the cost of our current system. Remove a lot of the lawyers and let doctors do their jobs.

Something should be done about the uninsured because they are a huge drain on the system because they go to the emergency room for care instead of a doctor's office. The "how" is obviously difficult to answer but something needs to be done. Preferably a non-governement option.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
3. Guaranteed living wage regardless of employment status.
Do I really need to say anything about this?

Ridiculous, get a job like everyone else

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
4. Free College Education
Ok, I can live with this with conditions. Prove that you can succeed in college. Maintain a 'B' average. If you flunk out, you pay for what you wasted. Of course there are concerns because there will be immediate tuition inflation by the schools.

College doesn't have to be free, but the sky rocketing costs need to be addressed. Our regular education system also needs to be addressed as well.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
5. End the fossil fuel economy while bringing the alternative fuel economy online.
Ok, find me an alternative fuel that can do what fossil can do as efficiently.

We need to quick our Middle East oil addiction. I'm sorry but it makes zero sense what so ever to ship billions of dollars a year to countries that hate us.

We should strive to be more efficient with what we use and we should research green technology because we have a finite amount of resources on this planet (this applies to more than just fossil fuels) and we need to learn to do more with less. Improving efficiency is a fundamental tenet of capitalism so there is no reason we shouldn't try and do this even if it does involve a little government subsidization.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
6. One trillion in infrastructure
Poof, here's a trillion dollars.

This is obviously a ridiculous amount of money but poor infrastructure costs our economy billions in lost productivity every year. We need efficient infrastructure to compete in the modern world. Furthermore this gets people off of welfare and contributing to society (obviously not these protestors though)

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
7. One trillion to restore the ecology
Once again, poof, here's a trillion.

Again ridiculous amount of money but we should protect our environment. I don't like breathing polluted air or drinking polluted water anymore then the next person.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
8. Racial and gender equal rights amendment
I'll need more explanation here. There are so many laws on the books now, it would just be stupidly redundant.

I'm not sure what this means but at the very least marriage for all

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
9. Open borders migration
Ok, doesn't that kind of contradict #1? So anyone can go anywhere? Wow, that'll be fun.

Immigration reform needs to happen we are constantly educating some very smart people and then sending them home to their countries where they work for or start competing companies with American companies. Let them stay here and create the next Google here. While making naturalization easier we should also secure our borders.

10. I'm not even sure what this means

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
11. Across the board debt forgiveness
Awesome.

Hahaha.......no

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
12. Outlaw credit reporting agencies
Really no need for them if you eliminate all debts.

Ridiculous

13. We can already unionize if we choose. No employee group should be forced to if they don't want to.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11591 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months ago) and read 5490 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
1. Restoration of a living wage by eliminating free trade agreements, imposing import tariffs and raising the minimum wage to $20/hour.

We didn't have free trade agreements up to the 1990s AND we had tariffs up to the 1980s. Things went pretty well until then.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
2. Create a single payer healthcare system while eliminating all private insurers.

Where is the government involved? I don't see that. I see they just want a single payer system created.


Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
3. Guaranteed living wage regardless of employment status.

I guess not everyone believes in the American dream of having shelter and food. I do believe people should work for a wage, but that wage should be able to cover shelter, food, and utilities. Currently, it does not.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
5. End the fossil fuel economy while bringing the alternative fuel economy online.
Ok, find me an alternative fuel that can do what fossil can do as efficiently.

Algea. Biofuel from corn and soy. They could get the same results from hemp (which is NOT marijuana) but it is illegal to grow.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
6. One trillion in infrastructure
Poof, here's a trillion dollars.

Really? Banks are sitting on trillions of dollars. Congress makes trillions of dollars out of thin air. But, it only works when the right wing and private industry want it?

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
10. Bring American elections up to international standards.
Bush stole the election is still their rallying cry. Though, I do believe that there should be a paper trail

Huh? The electoral college is a complete joke and waste of time! It has nothing to do with the *federal* supreme court ruling on a *state* election. And now, corporations want elections with no paper trail. Our system is truly a joke.

Quoting racko (Reply 6):
How dare they have a forum with open discussions??

Here is something the "evil" liberal talk radio has pointed out for the weeks this protest has been going on: The MSM has been taking what they believe are the dumbest of the protesters and parading them around saying "See??? This stupidity is what this stupid protest is all about!! We must quash this protest and be against it because one person we found is stupid, they are all stupid!!" Kinda like the tea people. Because a few people run around sounding like idiots, they all must be idiots.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3629 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5461 times:

I can agree with the free education IF someone can maintain good grades all the way.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
1. Restoration of a living wage by eliminating free trade agreements, imposing import tariffs and raising the minimum wage to $20/hour.
Really? A return to isolationism will increase our quality of life? Oh yeah, who pays the $20/hr, but, I guess that's covered in 3. The truth is, you really don't need to work.
Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):

3. Guaranteed living wage regardless of employment status.
Do I really need to say anything about this?

If you can get the $20/hr either way, why work then? What would the incentive be?


User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1341 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5456 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):

And that makes all the difference. The Tea Party protests were made up, for the most part, by taxpayers. With jobs. The reason the Tea Party never did such a long-lasting protest in front of the Capitol is that they had to back to work on Monday.

My point remains (especially since I'm sure plenty of these protesters have in fact worked and paid taxes.) Just like the left did with the Tea Party in its early phases, you're writing off a potentially important or potentially valid political activity as just lunatics and morons. And there's a good chance you're right and that this will fizzle out soon. But it stifles our discourse to write them off that way as soon as they appear.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7893 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5454 times:

Meanwhile, some of us are busting our a**es to get a rewarding job. And doing it without complaining for the government to give it to me! Thank you to my parents for instilling drive in me...


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 36
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

You guys realize that the people occupying wall street come from all walks of life and from all political ideologies?

The mainstream media in the US amazes me. FOX is saying it's a bunch of left wing hippies, but CNN shows it as some crazy tea party thing. Both groups (and the majority being somewhere in between) are protesting on Wall st. This isn't about being anti-capitalist, it's about being anti-corruption.



Word
User currently offlinesan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5375 times:

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 16):
You guys realize that the people occupying wall street come from all walks of life and from all political ideologies?

The mainstream media in the US amazes me. FOX is saying it's a bunch of left wing hippies, but CNN shows it as some crazy tea party thing. Both groups (and the majority being somewhere in between) are protesting on Wall st. This isn't about being anti-capitalist, it's about being anti-corruption.

No, they don't realize it, for pretty much the exact reason you stated.



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5400 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5367 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 8):
Granted, the demographics of the protesters are different.

Different how? Go ahead and say it. Looking at the pictures, I really don't see a difference in 'demographics'.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 12):
Where is the government involved?

Well, since they are calling for the abolition of private insurance companies, it follows that they are looking for the government to be the single payer.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 12):
I guess not everyone believes in the American dream of having shelter and food. I do believe people should work for a wage, but that wage should be able to cover shelter, food, and utilities. Currently, it does not.

They are demanding that a person make a living wage whether they are working or not.

"Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment"

That's not the American Dream...that's a pipe dream.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 12):

Really? Banks are sitting on trillions of dollars. Congress makes trillions of dollars out of thin air. But, it only works when the right wing and private industry want it?

Banks are sitting on the money because they are scared of what this administration may do. And, since when is it the banks or corporation's responsibility to maintain the infrastructure? Yes, Congress can print all the money it wants (actually, I believe it is the Executive, but let's no quibble) but, where does it come from and when do we pay the piper. I'll also ask, where are my fuel tax dollars? You know, the tax I pay every time I pump gas. Those are funds that are supposed to handle, at least, the road portion of our infrastructure.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 12):
The electoral college is a complete joke and waste of time!

Who said anything about the Electoral College. They claim our election processes aren't up to international standards. I believe our election process is just fine, but I would like to have a paper trail.

Quoting lewis (Reply 13):
I can agree with the free education IF someone can maintain good grades all the way.

Even though I support it, it can never happen. We would have to deal with tuition inflation (hey, the government is paying, raise tuitiion another 30%) and grade inflation since we're tying payment to grades. The second would be easirer to control than the first. The first would require government price controls.

Quoting lewis (Reply 13):
If you can get the $20/hr either way, why work then? What would the incentive be?

ding, ding, ding. Why work when I'm guaranteed a 'wage'?

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 16):
You guys realize that the people occupying wall street come from all walks of life and from all political ideologies?

I really don't see that, at all. These folks come from the Left.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineKngkyle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 403 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5345 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

It seems to me these protesters are misguided. They should be mad at congress for letting corporations have so much influence on elections and policy.

Oh and btw this list is a joke. Some forumer posted this list on the occupy wallstreet forums, not an actual leader of the group or anything. It would be like an anutter posting a list of their 'demands' and then that is somehow representative of what every airliners.net member wants.
This topic is a farce. Not surprised Fox News picked up on it.

[Edited 2011-10-05 13:14:03]

User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5338 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 18):
I really don't see that, at all. These folks come from the Left.

I've seen news reports (from various non-US sources) that show it's quite a mix of people. Many different demands, but the overall sentiment is the same. They are upset about the power Wall Street and the banks have on your Government. The US media just cherry picks to fit their networks political leanings. FOX only showing hardcore left wingers. CNN only showing Tea Party groups.



Word
User currently offlinesan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5335 times:

Quoting Kngkyle (Reply 19):
Oh and btw this list is a joke. Some forumer posted this list on the occupy wallstreet forums, not an actual leader of the group or anything. It would be like an anutter posting a list of their 'demands' and then that is somehow representative of what every airliners.net member wants.
This topic is a farce. Not surprised Fox News picked up on it.

Thank you. People act like this is their manifesto when the very first word on the page says PROPOSED.



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6088 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5301 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
raising the minimum wage to $20/hour.


If they got that I would demand a much higher wage. I don't make much more than that now and my job is worth much more than minium wage.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
Bring American elections up to international standards.


Who's standards? Of course the usual worthless hippy thinks international means western Europe.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
13. Unionization


We already have the freedom to unionize.

Quoting san747 (Reply 10):
Yeah, to hell with their idealism! What delusional, naive idiots they are for passionately fighting for a cause they think is important!! Goddamn it, its in-American!!!


Screw em'.... Their idealism is stupid! If you are going to stand for something stand up for something you might actually be able to change.

I remember when I was in school there was so many idiots that were outraged by stuff in the world that they had no power to change and sitting around smoking weed drinking coffee isn't going to change that. Things looks simple when you are young and in school.

One thing that all these hippies forget is that they have the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail.

If they complain they can't get jobs that pay well or a job at all I have one suggestion. Take classes for something that is actually in demand. You can get some useless degree in humanities and starve or go to trade school and learn to weld and work.

We need some good 1960s cops to start beating these hippies and dragging them off to jail. I heard some dumb student talking yesterday, on Sean Hannity's radio show, that she was ok with risking her scholarship to protest. How dumb is that. Lets say she loses it and since this protest will accomplish nothing she wasted it. I wonder what she will say when she is 35 and working some worthless job or paying back a huge loan because because protesting something pointless screwed her.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 20):
FOX only showing hardcore left wingers.


I would bet that the full timers down at the protests are ultra lefties, the type so far to the left they are just full time students, because they can't hold a real job. The right wingers and the garden variety lefties are too busy at work to spend too much time down there. My dad was in college 1966-1970 and never once (or so he claims) engaged in protesting. He and his friends were too busy working to pay for school to worry about marching for the injustices of the day. I have heard that a lot... protesters tend to be young and fairly well off. There are also some professionals too... My union was protesting at Michigan's capitol a while back and many of the protestors were not actual union members, but people paid to be there and college students that didn't have anything better to do. They did put on an impressive show and the pictures on TV and in the paper were very impressive.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 12):
do believe people should work for a wage, but that wage should be able to cover shelter, food, and utilities. Currently, it does not.


Maybe these hippies need to move out of New York City and come to Detroit. There is a lot of affordable housing here.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7893 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5296 times:

Quoting san747 (Reply 10):
Yeah, to hell with their idealism! What delusional, naive idiots they are for passionately fighting for a cause they think is important!! Goddamn it, its in-American!!!

On the contrary, it is American to work for changes. Some changes, no matter how great they are, are just unachievable. I'd love to see minimum wage at $20 but that is completely unrealistic. I know the validity of the first list is under question, but I still don't think these protesters have much of a clue what's going on. They need to go back, do their homework on what they are protesting and that it is actually realistic then come back as long as it isn't jeopardizing their jobs or school (something millions wish they had)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMCOGVADCA From China, joined Oct 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5294 times:

I've never seen a group of people with such a feeble grasp on economics or how the economy functions in general than the OWS. This speech is indicative of just how minimal their level of comprehension is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFz1VVXsWRU

They have a few decent points (especially pertaining to lobbying) but have very little idea how Wall Street works or what it actually is. Most interviews I've seen consist of regurgitated talking points with little textured understanding of the differential effects of the policies that are currently in place.

Additionally, what I find particularly irksome is the air of profundity with which so many of these armchair economists make their declarations. Here's a hint: if you were able to glean something from your one semester of macroeconomics, there's probably a reason why it hasn't been tried, or it has been tried, and hasn't worked.

Finally, I can't think of a more appropriate example as to why our education system needs a complete overhaul. I mean, seriously. Thank you, OWS, for demonstrating that the religious right indeed does not have a monopoly on ignorance in this country.



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25 victrola : The United States is doomed. There are no longer any middle of the road people willing to listen to the reasonable arguements of the other side and to
26 Post contains links flymia : (Reply 23):but I still don't think these protesters have much of a clue what's going on. I have a feeling that guy is the minority. He is a conservati
27 Dreadnought : Don't roll Ron Paul in with Conservatives. He might share some views, but he also shares some with Liberals. His platform is best described as the Da
28 fr8mech : Wait until it gets cold out. No, there are plenty if middle of the roaders. The problem occurs when an extremer gets elected to high office. That bri
29 seb146 : So, then, you are just *assuming* they want the government to start single payer. I am all for working people making a living wage. That is: being ab
30 Dreadnought : If they don't want insurance companies, who would be the single payer? Santa Claus? Should they? It is costly in materials and labor to build a house
31 WarRI1 : I agree. I also think we have now reached a point where we have deep social divisions in this country. I think this type of anger against the establi
32 Newark727 : The problem seems to be that private industry stands in the way of fixing it. Every regulation or tax intended to either remedy the circumstances tha
33 san747 : I absolutely agree. I was trying to make a point at how ridiculous the people that are denouncing the protesters sound. They need to formulate concis
34 DeltaMD90 : That is completely 100% exactly the OPPOSITE of what I was thinking. I hit set backs, I overcame them. I could have used my daddy's money to get to b
35 RayChuang : Given that this crowd is sponsored by a lot of way-Left political organizations, I don't trust them at all. With personal good reason: I've seen what
36 DeltaMD90 : To be fair, I don't think this movement is completely left. It's misguided and unorganized, but it's mostly a bunch of ordinary college students tryi
37 Pyrex : I always find it funny when I see people who have never lived under communism "debating" (i.e., yelling and insulting) those who have, who tend to be
38 san747 : Who wants communism? This isn't 1965. Commies aren't going to take over America. There are probably more people still willing to vote for Nader or Pe
39 seb146 : The banks got all those mortgages together, the good and the bad, mashed them all up, split them all up, sold them off and, by the end, no one could
40 Pyrex : Oh crap, here we go again... the big, bad mortgage securitization (invented by Fannie and Freddie, by the way). So which one are you in favor of, der
41 jcs17 : No offense, but fuck them. Most of those Brooklyn/Hipster losers are living off their parents' trust funds, from guess what? Wall Street. Those who ar
42 fr8mech : What does the average cashier contribute to Wal-Mart's bottomline? Notice that the unions have joined the protest. Can MoveOn and the others be far b
43 san747 : Judging by the passage of the PATRIOT Act, Prop 8, and various legislation making abortion unreasonably difficult for women to get, I think you're ri
44 Newark727 : That's just a platitude. What exactly do you feel is going on?
45 MCOGVADCA : Qualifying anyone in this protest in simplistic terminology is insufficient; in order to address the OWS crowd, non-linear thinking is imperative. Ra
46 fr8mech : Every law, every regulation, every governmental edict, every tax, every fee takes away a little bit of our freedom. Some are required and necessary,
47 ltbewr : When such 'demands' are presented they can turn off the center and tick off the extremes, making their sounder ideas impossible to get through and som
48 falstaff : They aren't making a difference. If they made reasonable demands maybe they could. I am sure there are a few that aren't lefties, but I would imagine
49 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://www.projo.com/opinion/contrib...er6_10-06-11_EUQNVVI_v6.69d99.html I think this sums up part of the reasons that we have these protests and why
50 Post contains links Dreadnought : With the passing of Steve Jobs today, I would like to point out that his compensation was over $600 million last year. Sure, brokers took advantage of
51 WarRI1 : How kind of you, to admit that. There was fraud, speculation, and greed from Wall Street and the banking industry, plus the mortgage industry. No mon
52 MCOGVADCA : Thanks for pointing this out, falstaff. This very important point tends to get lost in the debate of who is to blame in the mortgage crisis.
53 seb146 : Without cashiers, there would be no one to ring up products. Wal-Mart would not sell much of anything without cashiers. Which started.... when? Accor
54 Post contains images Dreadnought : Nobody said it was. The policy was started under Carter, kicked into high gear by Clinton. The Bush Administration could not throttle it back without
55 MadameConcorde : The first Occupy Wall Street 'Demand' is a 1% Wall Steet Sales Tax to be put in place immediately. Make financiers and zombie bankers pay for the depr
56 san747 : Still have to have people supervising the checkouts in case the machine is acting screwy or for alcohol/tobacco purchases.
57 lewis : In addition to that, these machines can help a bit but not completely replace the classic checkouts. The self-service ones are slow and are only good
58 Dreadnought : I NEVER use the checkouts with a clerk on them. The line tends to be longer, and I prefer to bag my own groceries (a sacked groceries for my first jo
59 DeltaMD90 : Do it all the time. Works great! The only time I gotta wait for those machines are the time all machines have lines behind them. Instead of a cashier
60 fr8mech : As shown, there are self checkouts. But, are you implying that a cashier is as important as, say a buyer? What about a manager? An accountant? The tr
61 Post contains images lewis : Hmmm, will try it next time. I would say that the speed depends on the user's abilities (and intellect to some extent) and we were talking about Walm
62 PPVRA : Cashiers add next to nothing in value. They are there merely because they are, to some extent, still necessary for a brick and mortar store. Now Amaz
63 PPVRA : They are not designed to handle a full trolley. This can change. Cashiers who work there mostly do troubleshooting (mostly with the folks still unedu
64 WarRI1 : I just read a story about automatic checkouts. Many are doing, or making plans to eliminate them. I would not dream of using them myself. Lose of job
65 Pyrex : Seriously, why the heck are you still on A.net? Don't you need to use computers for that? Do you have any idea of how many secretaries, clerks, typew
66 san747 : I won't answer for him, but plenty of (very lucrative) jobs have been created by the ubiquity of computers, so it's not as bad as you make it out to
67 roguetrader : The American wars against WMDs in Iraq and against ??? in Afghanistan cost well over a trillion dollars. Obviously then this is a realistic number wh
68 soon7x7 : Here my list to the protesters with their "new world" agendas... A: Get a life B: Take a shower C: Live long enough to realize what makes this country
69 n229nw : While in principle I support many parts of the agenda of these protesters, and believe that we need Obama and congress to move away from centrism ting
70 dxing : Regardless of employment status...well why would I want to go to work then? I thought we tried that approach already...oh that's right, only 13% of t
71 fr8mech : And how many higher paying (than cashier's) jobs are created to build, program and maintain these check-out lanes? The Federal government does not ru
72 windy95 : After Obamas speech supporting these miscreants yesterday he now owns any violence that will come out of these protests. Nice to see he is playing cla
73 Post contains images ALTF4 : 'Nuff said
74 Post contains images Dreadnought : Here's a good one...
75 Post contains images casinterest : I am laughing. Missed this thread over the past few days. These protestors are nuts. I have to laugh at most of their demands. Well if you make more t
76 Post contains images n229nw : Um...that picture is ridiculous, Except for the nut jobs (a significant minority), the reasonable people involved in this protest (the majority) are
77 Post contains images falstaff : I only $46,000 a year. So if those hippies got their way I could just quit and spend most of my day persuing scrap metal which I sell for cash. Since
78 san747 : Depending on how ubiquitous self-checkout becomes, certainly a good amount, but because of their own efficiency, there will probably fewer of those p
79 Post contains links fr8mech : True, but they will be higher paying and provide an opportunity for some people to move up in the socio-economic scale. http://www.foxnews.com/politi
80 san747 : Hopefully so. Interesting, I had never heard about this. I sort of understand the intent- encouraging collaboration with scientists around the world
81 PPVRA : "If cigarette packs are required to have pictures of diseased lungs, college brochures should be required to have pictures of graduates working at St
82 Post contains images RamblinMan : Damn straight, that's exactly what I was thinking. I could probably pull 40-50k playing poker if I did it full time, so screw this work thing, I'll t
83 us330 : The newer list is much more reasonable. With the humanities, it strongly depends on where you go and outside/extracurricular experience. Basically, t
84 WarRI1 : A silly accusation. No postman has lost his job from me that I know of. I use the mail, I refuse e bills. I never order from a computer, I call. When
85 WarRI1 : [quote=n229nw,reply=76]Um...that picture is ridiculous, Except for the nut jobs (a significant minority), the reasonable people involved in this prote
86 Post contains links Dreadnought : They have been called the liberal answer to the Tea Party (750 arrests in a week from a few thousand participants, vs 1 arrest in nearly 3 years from
87 Post contains images luckyone : The quote said high school, not university... If you think the government is NOT going to be involved in a non-private ie public fund, then you're al
88 seb146 : Of our money. They are sitting on money that we the people gave to the banks either through bail outs or by depositing our money there or paying inte
89 RGElectra80 : This list is LOL-inducing. These people are clowns. The protest in Austin last night was attended by 300 people, all of which were screaming for about
90 windy95 : Have you noticed the crowds there. Look pretty white to me. Just like the cast at MSNBC. I am sure she said the same about the tea Party. Like i said
91 Ken777 : No more than the yo-yos who dress up in costumes and wrap themselves in the Flag. You can have some self checkouts, with staff close by to handle var
92 falstaff : That is great! When I was in school we used to say "here comes the art history major (or other non technical degree earner)" when we would see the pi
93 rottenray : Fr8Mech, Did you miss this big note: Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by
94 windy95 : Did not need the list to figure that out. Just listening to them talk and reading their signs did that.
95 L-188 : These people don't have a message. Some people are screaming about Wall Street, some as complaining about the environment, some about the war...yadda,
96 WarRI1 : We shall see. So far, the protests are spreading. The main point of any protest, is to call attention to a grievance. Surely, even the Tea Party peop
97 Baroque : Not entirely sure I understand that through the medium of negatives, but if you mean a single payer healthcare system run by the government where pri
98 Post contains images luckyone : I should probably clarify, I was asking for a non-government single payer that also allowed private insurance. Thanks for the insight, though. Sadly,
99 Baroque : Ah, so the "not" was in the right place. I cannot conceive of what you ask! Seems to go against the nature of non governmental organizations I would
100 Post contains images luckyone : Bingo Like most things government gets its hands on and adulterates it probably would have worked out better had it been left to fail or succeed on i
101 Post contains links MAH4546 : There should be no minimum wage. Minimum wages kill jobs, encourage companies to hire illegal immigrants and foster unemployment. http://www.thefreem
102 Baroque : In the days before Thatcher and even more egregiously Blair in the UK and here Howard politicised their respective public services, those bodies woul
103 par13del : Unfortunately, the major portion of the issue is your other comment below which starts off with "Of Course, other factors", the order shoudl be flipp
104 Post contains images luckyone : I agree wholeheartedly. We need a less divided government along party lines. You're only worth what somebody else is willing to pay you. Sorry if tha
105 par13del : It was easy years ago to blame the parties Democrat and Republican, but in today's environment, it is about money and how it is spent, the divide is
106 fr8mech : Didn't miss it because ot wasn't there when I posted. This list sure has sparked some interesting commentary, hasn't it? Once again, wait until it ge
107 Ken777 : Government worker are, on the whole, no better or worse than private industry workers. How many times over the years have you butted heads with some
108 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://www.projo.com/opinion/editori...y9_10-09-11_VKQP53A_v46.6c7b5.html This Editorial sums it up pretty well. I especially like the quote by Suprem
109 par13del : All the more reason why the push for smaller government should gain steam. There is city councils, county, state then the feds, cutting the feds size
110 Dreadnought : Yes, they have a point. Multi-million dollar severance packages and multi-hundred million dollar option comp packages are crazy and do a disservice t
111 Baroque : Oh indeed, I would add ROTFL except I do have a bit of difficulty in finding the goings on in the Gulf funny, but your phrasing was very witty. The p
112 Post contains links rottenray : Indeed it has. And I suspect the admin note was added after the fact as you say. Obviously, you've been only watching what network "news" presents. B
113 WarRI1 : No question, the system is broken by the influence of money. I cannot in good conscience argue that government should be bigger. I can argue that in
114 Flighty : Today's problems are not because of these billionaires (other than health care / military billionaires). We need billionaires. They are a symbol we a
115 WarRI1 : No question, quite an absurd practice. It is like a club setting it's own rules, but it is not a private club, they are spending money, which is real
116 WarRI1 : Trust me, I have no problem with wealth. I do have a problem with the wealth being used to control our life and political system. That amazes me. Tha
117 Post contains links Baroque : The billionaires by and large have done something extraordinary. I am guessing but you probably do not get to be a billionaire by: You presumably - a
118 Flighty : Really? Wow we are really screwed then. I guess we won't be wanting anyone to start a business or expand a business footprint here in the USA, then.
119 Post contains images cmf : This has got enough momentum to be a force. The dangerous part is that we have a lot of people joined because the discontent they feel but there is no
120 Post contains images Ken777 : Just like in Corporate America. It has had a negative effect on the services provided, the costs to the public and also resulted in reductions in ear
121 Baroque : Oh wow! There IS a comparison.
122 Dreadnought : As someone who spent the entire 90s working throughout Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union, I can believe that. The biggest problems they had
123 Post contains images Superfly : I think your list is a bit outdated. Car phones are no longer in style. Today in 2011, its very easy for a high school graduate to buy a used 1992 Li
124 Baroque : You sure about that? Certainly happens here even with a number of Royal Commissions that have been designed to sort it out. Beth Morgan and Wollongon
125 Post contains images Superfly : This protestor looks kind of hot. The female arresting officer doesn't look too bad either. This photo looks like the beginning of something that coul
126 Pyrex : Agreed. And the best way to do that is to cut the ability of lawmakers to pick between winners and losers dramatically (unfortunately you will never
127 Baroque : We used to having a saying about the unmatched ability of one of our 1980s entrpreneurs - Alan Bond the man who took the Americas cup off America - t
128 BMI727 : There's a lot of things that are young, independent, and spontaneous. And almost all of them, including this, are incredibly dumb. And when people di
129 Superfly : ...and going back to what Falstaff and I were saying, they should move to Detroit. That city has achieved most of the goals of these protestors. Yes
130 ltbewr : Yesterday, on Sunday, I went by and walked through part of the CWS encampment in Washington DC. This was part of the group that had a few of them get
131 fr8mech : No, we can't accept government regulation of compensation. Yeah, I know we have a minimum wage, that's galling enough, but to cap compensation for a
132 weebie : America is stuffed that is all. So much more worse than Western Europe it isn't funny. Americans can start by paying more tax. A lof ot those proposal
133 Dreadnought : Ordinarily I would agree. However this problem started cropping up in the late 80s and early 90s, and has only gotten worse. One step the federal gov
134 weebie : Yeah but people in places like Italy, Greece and France just sit around all day and smoke. They are not legitimate economies whilst the constant netwo
135 Post contains links Superfly : Well I'll be darned. http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/spring-hq-internship-cover/
136 cmf : Completely agree. I have never had as much fun as there during that period. Didn't matter what you wanted to do. It was needed and people supported i
137 PPVRA : 1. The people who come screaming and throwing a fit are better left on their own than having someone waste their time with them. 2. Advice on product
138 fr8mech : What about the firm that can't promise cash pay upfront and offers stock as part of compensation. Or a major solvent corporation that uses stock as a
139 Dreadnought : I don't know if you intentionally said stock rather than stock options. Stock is different - you would have to write off the entire value to the P&am
140 Post contains images lewis :
141 fr8mech : I've also been compensated only with stock, but I don't see a thing wrong with options. Remember, they go both ways. You can loss your shirt just as
142 lewis : Including learning about the notion of FIAT currency and Fractional reserve banking. Unfortunately, up until the latest crisis, the majority of the p
143 dfwrevolution : They may or may not remain a force, but they have already blown their credibility. The moment they decided to "take the bridge" in Manhattan they got
144 Dreadnought : Hence the problem. It introduces uncertainty, both on the company books' side and on your own. I was awarded 40,000 shares in a company. The shares w
145 Post contains links Dreadnought : Back to the subject. Shortly after Pelosi and other Democrat officials have endorsed the protests, the protests have now been given the seal of approv
146 Ken777 : There were more than a few people who moved into "their"new house and only made one mortgage payment, or didn't even pay that. Because they didn't ha
147 fr8mech : I understand how options work and how and when they are accounted for. So long as the compensation policy is available for all to see (in a publicly
148 Dreadnought : Let's put it simply. If Iran or North Korea endorse a certain policy, how likely is it that it will actually be a good policy for us? Ewww, now you'r
149 WarRI1 : So do I. I Have been awarded stock options myself. My former employer still awards them to the workers, very small amounts involved. When you are awa
150 WarRI1 : And just what does that mean? It means that Iran hates us, nothing more. Stirring the pot, a time honored practice between countries. They hate Democ
151 dfwrevolution : But when an executive's total compensation is quoted in the press, how often does it include the value of stock options? Frequently, if not always. T
152 Post contains images cmf : I'm sure every bridge in Dubai is for sale
153 Post contains images WarRI1 : Do not get me going on sports salaries please.
154 WarRI1 : No doubt. I should have offered to sell the Brooklyn Bridge.
155 Post contains images Ken777 : I would have a hard time putting a lot of faith in PR statements that supposedly came from Iran via FOX. The issues that seem to be developing from t
156 Post contains links Dreadnought : Just shows your willful ignorance. AP reports it too. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...APcQRYL_story.html?wprss=rss_world Doesn't need to be. Y
157 Superfly : Quick question; Have the rich become richer under Obama, poorer or about the same?
158 GuitrThree : Blah blah blah. Just wait 'til it gets cold and watch all these losers run back to Mom and Dad's house where they pay the heat bill... Move on to the
159 Superfly : ...and when spring comes around, they'll be working on the Obama campaign selling t-shirts, hats, posters, bumper stickers, etc.
160 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : There was supposedly "Occupy Atlanta" and the protesters were making a big deal to stay in the park after hours and hinder the police and help their p
161 casinterest : Big difference is that group 2 is much smaller than group 1. Big similarity, Both are ignorant of the real world and consequences of their wishes.
162 sccutler : I cannot speak for investment banker types, but a number of traditionally successful businesses with which I am acquainted have been drained dry, as
163 Post contains links Ken777 : Actually my comment was primarily focused on the PR slag from Iran. The really queer part was the story about a week ago on one of the financial foun
164 USXguy : I'm too busy working to notice the protests.. are the commies still out there?
165 Post contains images Ken777 : Nah. just the heathens and public urinators.
166 Post contains images Dreadnought : And don't forget the public crappers...
167 Post contains images WarRI1 : Do you not understand Ken, that is Ok? They are job creators. a little under-handed profit from dealing with Iran, will surely be donated to the Repu
168 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://www.projo.com/opinion/contrib...y12_10-12-11_97QQFD3_v6.7278b.html Here is another take on the Wall Street demonstrators, and their effect. The
169 Superfly : Thanks for your insight. Its too bad that these sort of people do not have the President's ear. I hate to see that happen to a Ford Crown Victoria /
170 DeltaMD90 : That's ok, cops are loaded and destroy our political process, right? I don't know about this article... "Millions of Americans played by the rules, w
171 WarRI1 : I have to agree, blame all around on these issues. Government, banks and the people who signed the mortgages. I feel the government is part of the pr
172 Dreadnought : But once again - why are you blaming the banks when the Federal government forced the banks to lower their standards, and during the Clinton administ
173 WarRI1 : I know, there is blame all around, but the banks carried the policies to the umth degree, to make easy money. There are still mortgages out there, wh
174 Starbuk7 : The banks and the government are big problems in this equation I will agree. But part of this all comes back to personnel responsibility. If I am goin
175 Post contains images Flighty : Precisely. Banks were vulnerable to accusations of prejudice (of the worst kind) if they refused to adhere to government lending guidelines put out b
176 Baroque : Can someone remind me how government forced banks to consolidate numerous low quality loans into highly questionable derivatives and then persuade th
177 DeltaMD90 : What does that even mean? I feel this is a big issue even if I'm not buying a house anytime soon and this already passed, but I still think I should
178 WarRI1 : It was a money making scheme by the banks, that was criminal, they lost the money, we bailed them out. It was so convoluted, that they cannot trace t
179 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://news.yahoo.com/whos-behind-wall-st-protests-110834998.html I find this interesting, good old Rush Limburger. I am sure it has been done before,
180 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Exposing the Federal Reserve And The Transnational Banksters - Minister Louis Farrakhan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF997OH12tw&feature=player
181 Post contains images Dreadnought : The federal government started it! Look at the chart below regarding annual MBS issuances in trillions by year. Private firms only got into it at the
182 FlyPNS1 : Except they weren't forced into making bad loans. The only thing the banks were forced into was to stop the practice of red-lining and discrimination
183 Superfly : So explain why there are so many mortgages that are 'under water' that are not in "bad neighborhoods"? The mortgage crisis affected homes in all soci
184 casinterest : BS. Professionally Run Banks absolutely would do this. They sold off the loans and made paper profits on derivatives of material assets that were for
185 Dreadnought : No they would not. Assuming the market was entirely market-driven (no Fannie/Freddie, etc), no bank is going to issue a mortgage at 5% for 100% of th
186 CargoLex : Not true at all. There were plenty of lenders who were handing out loans to people who plainly could not afford them. You'd really like to have Fanni
187 casinterest : Anyone with Basic knowledge would understand that the involvement of Privately Backed Banks, (lehman and Goldman, and others ) were the cause of SUB
188 ltbewr : It appears that the OWS protesters in the Wall Street area are being evicted to 'clean up' the private park area they are in and not allowed to contin
189 Post contains images Dreadnought : Look at the graph I showed before. Fannie and Freddie were packaging and reselling MBSs years before the banks and investment houses got into the gam
190 WarRI1 : Exactly, business interests will put their well being first. I wonder who owns the property, the business people? It is public property, the protesto
191 Dreadnought : You seem to forget that businesses are made up of people. They've tolerated this crap for weeks, enough is enough. Go somewhere else.
192 WarRI1 : That is the point of a demonstration, to call peoples attention to the grievance. If the business people do not like it, let them counter with their
193 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : LOL, they work for a living! You know, work - the stuff in the old days earned you a living, rather than demanding that others give it to you? http:/
194 WarRI1 : I do remember that. I am sure the company could have their employee's go on Saturday, or Sunday. On overtime of course. Oop's they are non-union, the
195 CargoLex : Having worked on Wall Street, my New York office is still there, I know the place this protest is happening very, very well. I've walked by it, and t
196 us330 : That's fine, but I'm still having a little troble understanding you connecting that with the decision of various banks, like Goldman Sachs, to buy th
197 Post contains images WarRI1 : I did not, and could not have said that any better than you have. It was greed, pure and simple that overruled common sense. Not surprising. What doe
198 WarRI1 : Thanks, I thought there was something funny about that park. I could not remember what it was.
199 Dreadnought : As you can see from the graphs I posted above, Fannie and Freddie (and Ginnie) were the FIRST to do it. Banks started years later, did it from 1995 t
200 DeltaMD90 : You know, not every non-union company is bad. I worked for one and was treated just fine. I know not all unions are evil but come on man
201 WarRI1 : I certainly agree and understand all that. My wife was non-union, as was most of my family. One tries to get a good natured jibe in every once in awh
202 Post contains images Dreadnought : It's what I live for
203 Post contains images WarRI1 : All in the interests of a good discussion, sharing our thoughts, and hoping for the best for our families, and our country, of that I am sure. [Edite
204 Post contains images Baroque : Sorry, it was late at night and I did miss a verb out as is it should have read "then forced the banks to foist these liabilities on unsuspecting cli
205 Post contains images Dreadnought : No question. Except it's misleading. Yes, the letter of the law was to stop 'redlining'. But the way it was enforced was to enforce quotas. Under the
206 Post contains links Pyrex : Not only that, but even if they were guilty of gross incompetence, last time I checked that is not a crime. If it was, who would we have to work for
207 Baroque : All those may, or may not be true. Where I find the disconnect is you surely are not saying that government instructed them to bundle the primary mor
208 us330 : I understand the point that you are trying to make--that people buy things that other people consider to be worthless all the time because they see s
209 Dreadnought : I suppose instructed is not the word. But the banks saw how Fannie and Freddie were doing exactly that, and the rating agencies had gone along with i
210 FlyPNS1 : It's also noteworthy that most of the areas hit hardest by the foreclosure crisis are suburban and exurban area that were NOT covered by the CRA. Most
211 casinterest : DUHHHHH, That was Fannie and Freddie's jobs. And they were looking after their MSB's and verifiying the loans. 2001 and 2003 saw a pretty high spike.
212 Baroque : I know they bought loans, but did F&F do repackaging? The conforming and non-conforming loans gets me a bit lost. I thought that banks did most o
213 casinterest : The workings of finance are to twist the numbers. That is the truth. At the end of the day, there is income, there is expenses, there are taxes, and
214 jcs17 : Bloomberg caved. Shame. They are occupying a private park, not a public park. They ought to turn the hoses on the protesters/morons/losers a la Birmin
215 falstaff : I have worked in non union places and have worked weekends, holidays, and overtime in exchange for more money and a paid day off in the future. I act
216 Post contains images BMI727 : Economics at work, you can't argue with it. Don't like the salaries, don't buy the product. But, do you really enjoy a basketball game less if the pl
217 Post contains links Starbuk7 : Here is another example of your so called "peaceful" protestors! Occupy Boston Protesters Spit On Female Officer http://www.theblaze.com/stories/coas.
218 WarRI1 : Trust me, I do not, I watch very little sports on TV. I have not gone to a game in years. I can always trust you to make an outlandish statement. May
219 BMI727 : They're unwashed because they are stupid, not the other way around. Part of being free is having the freedom to be an idiot. They are a bunch of moro
220 WarRI1 : I guess the Brown University people who are demonstrating tomorrow are stupid, unwashed. Man! Certainly that is proven on here, time and time again.
221 GuitrThree : Really? Like I've already said before, once it gets cold in NYC, and it does, plus the added effect of high winds due to the buildings, these example
222 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Incredible Speech By Wall Street Protester "End The Fed" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFz1VVXsWRU The kid nailed it. He is great.
223 Post contains links melpax : Protests have now also started in Melbourne, protestors are occupying the City Square in the middle of the CBD, ironically, most of the banks & ot
224 Dreadnought : He is pretty good, but you do understand that his message is not only "End the Fed", bur also "End social security, end medicare and medicaid, end we
225 Baroque : Did not know that Boeing had been exported. To China presumably, the only ones with the funds to buy it. Actually you might find that aircraft compon
226 Post contains links MadameConcorde : I am not moving. Short film.. Occupy wall Street. http://livecage.com/?res=root&content_id=13433 The powerful "I Am Not Moving" juxtaposes Occupy
227 par13del : So long story short, in other regions the demonstrations are about corrupt governments and the need for change, what exactly do they expect from Wall
228 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Occupy London live feed http://bambuser.com/channel/bc_tmh/broadcast/2045852 There's also a Live Feed over at The Guardian Occupy the London Stock Exc
229 Post contains links CargoLex : A very unlikely opinion on the Occupy Wall Street protests from a very unlikely source: Fox News. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/.../understandin
230 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Pope's Tweet with a link to the Daily Telegraph. Looks like the Man in White is following the situation closely. @PopeBXVI Pope Benedict XVI Protester
231 CargoLex : Though I generally support the protestation of greed and corruption, this is unacceptable behavior under any circumstances, and only serves to underm
232 Post contains images MadameConcorde : Occupy Italy on Twitter: 500 anarchists infiltrated the peaceful Occupy Italy gathering today causing chaos Peaceful protestors went 2 another site 2
233 DeltaMD90 : That's what I've been saying ever since this whole thing started. That is a much bigger problem, IMO. Furthermore, even if they were organized and ha
234 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Occupy New York Live streaming from New York City The police are really at them with megaphones. http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution
235 Post contains images NoUFO : Now: Occupy Wall Street $eptember 17th
236 Post contains links MadameConcorde : There are many streams. A whole flurry of them. Some live and some others recorded. http://www.occupystreams.org/[Edited 2011-10-15 12:36:12]
237 shamrock604 : This is also happening in Ireland. "Occupy Dame Street" protestors have been camped outside the Irish Central bank on Dame street for almost two weeks
238 Post contains images MCOGVADCA : Anyone coming back into the thread now (like me) just read what Pyrex said in Reply 206. He absolutely nailed it. The number of arguments promulgated
239 Post contains images Dreadnought : It's what we've been saying all along. The motivation of the protesters is understandable, but they are protesting the wrong people. Yeah, right, and
240 Post contains links Baroque : Taking the spat more broadly than "just" the banks: http://www.smh.com.au/business/give-...aring-salaries-20111015-1lqdf.html Give the directors' club
241 Post contains images Baroque : Wonder if those "morons" might have something to complain about. and Oh well the top 1% has been about that high before, back in 1928. Wonder what hap
242 Dreadnought : I don't think anyone has said they have nothing to complain about. I agree that executive comp is out of control, and I have suggested a reasonable w
243 Post contains links Baroque : IIRC you did not, but quite a few others did. You are defending the wrong wicket. The bowling is at the other end. If the income is more equitably di
244 Post contains links Superfly : ***Occupy update*** Occupy Portland: Protesters Sing F*ck the USA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeuGx8PplAo&sns=fb Its consistent with Obama's co
245 Flighty : CEO pay isn't a major complaint of mine as a shareholder of many companies. Of course, if I DON'T own shares, CEO pay is absolutely NONE of my busines
246 WarRI1 : I do not think anyone needs an economic degree, to see and hear and feel the affects of the Financial/ Wall Street corruption, scandal, collapse of o
247 Zentraedi : Totally agree. You can't expect companies to throw money around for no reason. Companies will always work for their own interests. It's the governmen
248 Dreadnought : Yes, I've worked for one of the oldest and largest banks in the world. Huh? Whatdu talkin' bout?
249 Post contains links Dreadnought : Irony alert!: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m..._occupation_oh3CnKANUqYHrGPCaZaLRK These folks say they want income redistribution but complain w
250 DeltaMD90 : Hate to nitpick, but maybe if she didn't by a $5500 Mac (holy crap that's a lot) she'd have more money and wouldn't need to protest? I know, I'm sure
251 Post contains images WarRI1 : Come on, leave your computer, your false teeth, anywhere these days, they will steal it. To try and tie this to the demonstrators is a joke. When my
252 Dreadnought : I would just point out that we did not see this at Tea Party events. It's the type of people that are there. When you lie with dogs, expect fleas.
253 WarRI1 : I call them common thieves, just like at the bank, everywhere. The thieves are quick to spot a target, come on, I do not need to explain that, do I?
254 Post contains links Baroque : Here is an interesting example of the current system at work - and in the recent past with one person starring who made a deep "impression" in his Was
255 Zentraedi : You know perfectly well. Newt Gingrich and that spastic right-wing muckraking over that little muslim YMCA in Manhattan.
256 Post contains links Baroque : Banks: The gift that never stops giving. http://www.smh.com.au/business/more-...ruggling-banks-20111019-1m85a.html More largesse for our struggling ba
257 Flighty : TARP is an issue (any financial panic is an issue). But TARP was pretty much paid back. And there are mechanisms in place to make sure it is paid back
258 Pyrex : There is. In Europe. And the ironic thing is, here is the way it goes: 1. Government borrows money from bank. 2. Government then goes around and borr
259 EA CO AS : The protestors are misguided - they're protesting against the wrong people. They should be picketing MAIN STREET, not Wall Street. It's the everyday p
260 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : A live feed of the protests going on in Greece. Not the "occupy" movement but protesters basically come with the same demands. http://www.livestream.c
261 windy95 : I bet some have IRA's or 401K's invested in these companies. Take the unions for example. Where do they invest their money?
262 Flighty : If unions actually own pieces of these companies, then they should make their desires known at the shareholder meeting. Then, a vote of shareholders
263 WarRI1 : That used to work, it does not seem to anymore, the large funds control the majority of shares. The individual shareholder is like a flea now. They j
264 BMI727 : And there are plenty of average investors who invest in large funds. They've always had to band together to get anything done. But obviously they don
265 WarRI1 : Exactly, I never put myself in a situation, to think, or feel like a flea, as you might have noticed. I know when the system is stacked. As usual an
266 BMI727 : Why should a person, or group of people, holding 1% of shares get more than 1% of the votes in running a corporation? Why should companies not listen
267 Post contains links Baroque : Why not follow this event happening almost as I write? You will find it fascinating Flighty. Also follow the postings of Stephen Mayne. Difficult to
268 BMI727 : Depending on what exactly is going on, that would be a company to potentially avoid when investing. A company being run completely in the interest of
269 Baroque : News Ltd is a particularly egregious example, but there are plenty more. Let me know some companies that actually pass your scent test - please!!! A
270 BMI727 : Take their money out. If you don't like the way a company does business, take your money elsewhere. If you think they engage in dishonest business pr
271 Baroque : Well WADR, you will likely get the fate you so richly deserve. The pull your money out is simply a vote for the status quo which is a vote for dishon
272 BMI727 : You might feel that way if only a small minority of shareholders think like you do. Of course that means that the problems which are a large red flag
273 Post contains links Baroque : I fear there is a basic flaw in your understanding of the way in which limited liability companies are supposed to operate and you are assuming that
274 BMI727 : I should point out that just because an investor can look past something does not mean it should be ignored. One should be careful when dealing with
275 Baroque : If all of those had been followed I would not have had Mount Isa Mines and Western Mining Corp sold out from underneath me and soon Fosters will foll
276 Post contains links melpax : Riot police have stormed the Occupy Melbourne camp, arresting protesters at City Square on a chaotic day in Swanston Street, with the city still bloc
277 Post contains links VonRichtofen : Here's a nice article on msn.ca about what the OWS protesters are asking for. Now it's a three page article without any catchy, one-line sound bytes s
278 WarRI1 : Hmmn, two paragraphs, saying the same thing. Now that is a waste of words as far as I am concerned. Ho Hum. Time for bed.
279 Post contains links Superfly : Whoa, look at the new 'friends' that these brats have attracted. http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepa...street_radical_islamist_group_cair http://www.
280 cws818 : So what? And have you lived under communism? Salazar was no communist. Your flag does nothing to bolster your argument. No offense, but fuck you. See
281 Post contains links Baroque : "See that - swearing and disparaging solves nothing." Nice riposte cws818. Should be more of it. According to an article in today's SMH, the O Wall St
282 Pyrex : What we have now in Portugal is not too different, and we do have plenty of communists lying around reminiscing about the olden days, before the fall
283 WarRI1 : I find it amusing, and sad, when someone takes on the mantle of judge, jury and executioner on here, and calls someone an idiot. Do you think some ar
284 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-...ears-later-same-culprits-same-rage Self explanatory.
285 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : Obama apparently made his own contribution to the Occupy movement... http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/41638
286 Superfly : Didn't Obama tell people to NOT go to Las Vegas?
287 Post contains links WarRI1 : http://front.moveon.org/this-powerfu...lstreet/?id=32303-18336682-v4GunOx I think this clip may show why they are there, demonstrating against Wall St
288 Post contains links Dreadnought : I doubt more than one out of 100 could even give you the briefest overview of what Glass Steagall is. In fact, you seem confused yourself. Many of th
289 WarRI1 : I know what Glass Steagall covered, was it not mentioned in this video, did not the screen say re-in-state Glass Steagall? The whole point of the vid
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