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Smithsonian A&S Shut Down By Protesters  
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1799 times:

Yup, the Air and Space Museum was shut down due to safety concerns regarding a large group of protesters that attempted to enter the facility.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...-standoff-closes-air-space-museum/

The rabble rousers apparently don't like the fact the museum is hosting an exhibit that features a history of drone aircraft. As you know they are extensively used in the persuit and bring to justice of various terrorists in centeral and southwest aisa most who want kill westerners.

They apparently didn't like the fact the sercurity guards wouldn't like the fact that they couldn't bring their signs in to the place and got rough enought to the point that other security personell had to employ chemical disperants to break up the ground at the enterance. The group at the museum is apparently tied to other anti-war demonstrators in the city and is modeled on the anti-wall street crowds.

This is not the first time that the museum, which is argueably one of the great aviation facilities in the world has been subject to anti-war protesters. When the new facility was opened the restord aircraft "Enola Gay" was vanalized by a person in the crowd.

I am glad the security forces where able to keep the crowd at bay. There is too much history there to be destoryed by anti-war anarchists? BTW isn't that a contrictioin in terms? Anti-war Anarchists?


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4312 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1795 times:

You mean "contradiction".

(not trying to be captious, just the spelling is a bit off)



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1705 times:

Yeah Derico.

I don't want to speak ill of the dead but his ipod spellchecker sucks the big one



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13139 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1653 times:

Ironically, I spent the day at the branch of the Air & Space museum by Dulles Airport. No protesters there !

I suspect for a while, they will put up more guards and cops, restrict even more the access points and inspect any and all bags as well as look out for those with bulky jackets.

The interior of these museums are not the proper place for a protest. Just a few jerks like these will hurt the general message of the protesters in the general media, and hype up the right wingers. Keep it outside, keep it civil, don't mess up the access to 1000's who want to visit these places.


User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9047 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1643 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
The interior of these museums are not the proper place for a protest. Just a few jerks like these will hurt the general message of the protesters in the general media, and hype up the right wingers. Keep it outside, keep it civil, don't mess up the access to 1000's who want to visit these places.

You are absolutely 100% correct. It maybe the time in their eyes, but most certainly not the place, inside. Poor judgement to say the least.

[Edited 2011-10-08 20:18:49]


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1600 times:

What a bunch of idiots. Looks like they don't have anything better to do with their lives. What these idiots fail to realize is that millions of people visit these museums every year and that many people come from overseas who are going to be very disappointed. Shame that they had to shut down the museum..but yes, there is a lot of aviation history inside..too valuable to be destroyed by these jerks.


אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1570 times:
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Wat do you expect from a bunch of anarchists. This is the Obama legacy right here, right now. These are just aimless fools looking to ruin everyone else's good time. They get violent when they don't get the coverage they want. It's scary to think what might come next. What's scary is, I don't think they're above carrying out violent acts upon random citizens, just for fun. It wouldn't surprise me one bit


Made from jets!
User currently offlineJakeOrion From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1533 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 6):
Wat do you expect from a bunch of anarchists. This is the Obama legacy right here, right now. These are just aimless fools looking to ruin everyone else's good time. They get violent when they don't get the coverage they want. It's scary to think what might come next. What's scary is, I don't think they're above carrying out violent acts upon random citizens, just for fun. It wouldn't surprise me one bit

Uhhh no. While I disagree with the protesters point of view, I respect their right to protest. However, as others said, protesting in or around museums gives the impression that the protesters have lost touch with reality. While some may disagree with certain historical artifacts, they are never-the-less a part of history.



Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7309 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1524 times:
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Load up Enola Gay and bombs away.   


I miss the old Anet.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 2003, 14072 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 6):
Wat do you expect from a bunch of anarchists. This is the Obama legacy right here, right now. These are just aimless fools looking to ruin everyone else's good time. They get violent when they don't get the coverage they want. It's scary to think what might come next. What's scary is, I don't think they're above carrying out violent acts upon random citizens, just for fun. It wouldn't surprise me one bit

I might be a little bit older than you, but we had those idiots LOOONG before Obama.
Also, I refuse to call them anarchists, to me they are rather nihilists.

Jan


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10905 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1503 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
Ironically, I spent the day at the branch of the Air & Space museum by Dulles Airport. No protesters there !

I support the Occupy movement worldwide but I totally agree that the protesters have no business occupying museums and other cultural facilities anywhere.

That they protest against the wars and drone attacks that kill civilians is fair and just - though they should go to the Ministry of Defense, congressional and government buildings for this - not museums, opera houses or any other cultural facilities anywhere.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13139 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1489 times:

1492

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 10):
That they protest against the wars and drone attacks that kill civilians is fair and just - though they should go to the Ministry of Defense, congressional and government buildings for this - not museums, opera houses or any other cultural facilities anywhere.



The reason for the protesters at the A&S in DC was that there is a display of 'drone' aircraft, apparently including those used in Afghanistan to bomb alleged terrorists, but which far too often are killing innocents. Some parts of the overall protest group includes those who are anti-wars as well as against the spending for them instead of their preferred choice to fund social services. Protesting there was also more likely, especially on a holiday weekend, to get media attention and as it is very difficult to effectively protest due to strict security policies that makes it impossible to protest at the Pentagon (basically our Military ministry) as well as near other important buildings. As to the Pentagon, I was at the 9/11 Memorial located there late yesterday.

I plan to be in DC all day today (Sunday) and tomorrow (Monday), it is a national holiday, Christopher Columbus Day, the day he allegedly 'discovered' America in 1492 starting European colonialism and occupation. I hope I don't get my visit ruined by the protesters. I don't want to get caught up in a round up of protesters. I don't want the experience of a DC jail.   


User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1447 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 6):
This is the Obama legacy right here, right now.

I really can't believe you said that. You're joking, right?

I can't imagine how angry I'd be if I were on vacation and planned to go to the A&S museum only to have my plans spoiled by these people.


User currently offlinehelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1345 times:

http://dcist.com/2011/10/american_spectator_editor_admits_in.php

American Spectator Editor admits to being agent provocateur at Smithsonian.

Quote:
In a "breaking news" articled posted online last night, American Spectator editor Patrick Howley admitted to having infiltrated the Action Committee protest and being a key participant, and perhaps instigator, of the group that tried to gain entry into the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum yesterday afternoon. Howley, pictured right, recounts his foray into group, having started the day before and ending with a face full of pepper spray. "But as far as anyone knew I was part of this cause -- a cause that I had infiltrated the day before -- and I wasn't giving up before I had my story," wrote Howley as to his reasons for going as far as he did. ”


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1319 times:

I never understood violent anti-war protests. Shouldn't that be an oxymoron?


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1173 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting JakeOrion (Reply 7):
While I disagree with the protesters point of view, I respect their right to protest.

I never said people don't have a right to protest, but when they resort vandalizing museums, they've lost the civil right to protest IMO. The motive is chaos, and that should not be allowed. And after that, they're no longer protestors, they're criminals.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 9):
I might be a little bit older than you, but we had those idiots LOOONG before Obama.

True, but they mobilized under this guy and the Democrats.

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 12):
I really can't believe you said that. You're joking, right?

Why? People were calling Bush a Nazi and Hitler. I'd like to see the posts where cried outrage when that happened. Show me that, and i'll recant my above statement. But I stand firm, that Barack Obama's administration has become nothing but a thug-regime, taking it's aim at the opposition, and these protests are product of him, and the rest of his minions. There the ones who are all behind this crap. These protestors are screaming about the lack of available jobs, loans, high gas prices, and the main characters in this scheme is Obama and his people. He's the reason for high unemployment, he is the reason why banks aren't lending money, he is the reason why our deficit is out of control. He could've done so much with his super-majority, in a centrist fashion with getting the deficit paid down(and I actually would've been in favor of some tax increases to help shrink the deficit), but no, he had to go off and sign away America's finances on this silly healthcare bill(that's all it is, a bill to American taxpayer), so the lame and lazy can take advantage of the rest of America paying their healthcare costs.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineCargoLex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1275 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 1147 times:

Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
The rabble rousers apparently don't like the fact the museum is hosting an exhibit that features a history of drone aircraft.

This is a national museum presenting a historical exhibit, whether or not one thinks that drone strikes are a good thing or a bad thing, this is essentially an art / history exhibit. I disagree with silencing the presentation of materials like this, because to suppress them in a museum is not really to take on the actual cause you want to work against, but to attempt to silence or erase it from history. This is also a public museum and therefore should represent things relevant to all of the public, whether or not a small but vociferous minority dislikes them.

The defense of historical or artistic materials, however, cuts both ways. I wonder if you'd be so quick to defend Robert Mapplethorpe or Andres Serrano, American artists of great note who have often been the target of Conservative's rage. Indeed, cultural institutions in America have been greatly damaged over the last twenty years by religious conservative fascists who want to eliminate art and cultural artifacts they don't approve of, which is exactly what these protesters want to do here.

We can learn things from objects and artwork we may not be comfortable with - in fact, that kind of artwork or artifact, ideally, gets us to think far more than simply looking at an object we like. In the case of Mapplethorpe's photos, the anti-gay censorship directed at them led to more tolerance and acceptance of gay artists. Perhaps the drone exhibit might lead some to understand that not everything is black and white, and that although the drone strikes may be objectionable in many respects, they may also be necessary.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
Why?

Because what you've said is ridiculous.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
I'd like to see the posts where cried outrage when that happened. Show me that, and i'll recant my above statement

Which of these two presidents invaded a sovereign nation under false pretenses, leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in that nation and several thousand American troops?

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
There the ones who are all behind this crap.

There's zero evidence of that. If anything, these protests have happened in spite of Obama, rather than because of him. I'd wager that many of these protestors do not feel Obama has been doing enough for them. If they did, they wouldn't be out in the street.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
He's the reason for high unemployment,

No he's not. If only it were such an easy thing to point at one person and say "it's him, let's get him." Obama effectively staunched the bleeding of jobs in early 2009, but hasn't been able to do much to actually reverse the tide. In part, because the opposition is so fixated on supply-side solutions to demand-side problems, and Obama is so ready to compromise with them (not that it is reciprocated in any way, shape, or form).

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
he is the reason why banks aren't lending money

Also not true. Obama's fiscal policy has been to make capital as cheap as possible. What we're living in is an era of way-too-tight underwriting, because we've seen incalculable damage done by the way-too-loose standards of the credit-happy previous decade, where the declining standard of living could be masked by giving away tax dollars so people could buy big-screen TV's or keeping economic policy in stimulus mode long after it should have been set back to normal.

You know that old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink?" That's what's happening here. The government can keep interest rates low in the hopes that private insitutions will utilize that cheap capital, but it can't force them to without nationalizing them, and that's never gonna happen.

If you really think that Obama is why banks aren't lending money, then you need to do a lot more studying.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
he is the reason why our deficit is out of control

You don't think two unfunded wars and a decade of extreme fiscal mismanagement have anything to do with that?

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
and I actually would've been in favor of some tax increases to help shrink the defici

Well then it's a shame you didn't tell all your republican friends to get on the bus - because that's why we don't have any revenue answers to what is both a revenue and spending problem.

You can gut and cut all you want - mathematically, that's never going to get us to where we need to be - debt free. You have to raise taxes, it is a mathematical impossibility to do it on cuts alone. Even anti-tax stalwarts like Tom Coburn have come to realize this. But as soon as Coburn suggested that some tax subsidies should end and some taxes should be raised, he was vilified by Grover Norquist, whom nobody elected, and threatened with a primary challenge. Rather than standing up for the mathematical facts he'd found, he simply backed down and now ducks the question of what to do about the revenue side.

And cutting and slashing has other consequences. For example, the recently unemployed are almost all military and government workers who are now or will soon be out of a job thanks to government cutbacks. This keeps the unemployment rate high in spite of modest rates of economic growth.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
but no, he had to go off and sign away America's finances on this silly healthcare bill

It's actually budget negative, but don't let the facts get in the way or anything.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
so the lame and lazy can take advantage of the rest of America paying their healthcare costs.

The best thing we could have done is establish a single payer system. The plan is at best a compromise, and not a very good one - I'll give you that. But the opposition was unwilling to work towards any kind of solution, despite every attempt to get them on board - including checking single payer at the door to the negotiation room. I understand you dislike anybody who is disadvantaged and feel that they should be left to die in the street of cholera, but that's not how we do things in america.

Does it seem unfair that I'm accusing you of wanting people to die? If so, please go back and examine some of the rhetoric used by the right wing during the healthcare "debate" - and please, do a search for how many times the word "socialism" has been grossly misused right here in this forum as a result of that "discussion."

Frankly, you're way off base, and that's why somebody is asking you if you're having a laugh.

[Edited 2011-10-10 18:09:30]

User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1130 times:

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 16):
We can learn things from objects and artwork we may not be comfortable with - in fact, that kind of artwork or artifact, ideally, gets us to think far more than simply looking at an object we like.

  
Keeping connection with history is the best way to make sure we remember and don't repeat mistakes.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13139 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1116 times:

Quoting CargoLex (Reply 16):
Quoting L-188 (Thread starter):
The rabble rousers apparently don't like the fact the museum is hosting an exhibit that features a history of drone aircraft.

This is a national museum presenting a historical exhibit, whether or not one thinks that drone strikes are a good thing or a bad thing, this is essentially an art / history exhibit. I disagree with silencing the presentation of materials like this, because to suppress them in a museum is not really to take on the actual cause you want to work against, but to attempt to silence or erase it from history. This is also a public museum and therefore should represent things relevant to all of the public, whether or not a small but vociferous minority dislikes them.
Quoting CargoLex (Reply 16):
Perhaps the drone exhibit might lead some to understand that not everything is black and white, and that although the drone strikes may be objectionable in many respects, they may also be necessary.



I was in the A&S museum today, Monday. I saw the exhibit, it is at the western end of the building, visible via the windows there. I believe that this is not just a temporary exhibit, indeed this may be an perm one, I believe there were five on display. It notes the uses of them besides for bombing. It is appropriate to have a display of such unmanned aircraft, as they represent a major change as to aircraft. For now, the exhibit seems to be helping the jobs situation with up to 3 security guards near it.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1106 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 14):
I never understood violent anti-war protests. Shouldn't that be an oxymoron?

Not if they are peaceful. But Yeah when they are raiding museums, they are now drawing the line.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
But I stand firm, that Barack Obama's administration has become nothing but a thug-regime, taking it's aim at the opposition,

Both administrations have done that. So did Bush Co. I am very disappointed in the past two regimes in the U.S., that is why it is time for additional parties

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
Why? People were calling Bush a Nazi and Hitler.

I won't go as far as to call Bush a Nazi, because he was nothing more than a puppet to Rove and Cheney. I do agree however that Cheney and Rove shared a lot of thought patterns with Goebbels, Goering and others in Germany during WWII.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 15):
He's the reason for high unemployment, he is the reason why banks aren't lending money, he is the reason why our deficit is out of control. He could've done so much with his super-majority, in a centrist fashion with getting the deficit paid down(and I actually would've been in favor of some tax increases to help shrink the deficit), but no, he had to go off and sign away America's finances on this silly healthcare bill(that's all it is, a bill to American taxpayer), so the lame and lazy can take advantage of the rest of America paying their healthcare costs.

It is both the Republicans and Democrats that are the problem. They are both more interested in political posturing by pretending to be helping the people than actually helping the people.

The mess is due to both parties. High unemployment and the banking mess started with Bush, but Obama can't fix it either. Bush Co. lit the fire, Obama threw gas on it. In reality all these problems started with Nixon, when he took us off of the gold standard and further back when we created the Federal Reserve System.

Unemployment problems were going on during the 2000s and going up big time in 2008. The $1 trillion bank bailouts started with Bush Co as well as 2 expensive wars.

Of course Obama then jumped on the bailout bandwagon and has yet to get us out of these wars he promised the US we would get out of almost 3 years later.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3184 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1054 times:

Those who want to believe the myth that Obama supports Occupy Wall Street -

from the Huffington Post too - Usually a pro Obama source, is criticizing Obama for 3 new Free Trade Agreements he is pushing, which will piss off the Occupy Wall Street group:



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-...tz/obama-free-trade_b_1003846.html


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