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Amnesty International Seeks Arrest Of GW Bush  
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3473 times:

Quote:
The human rights group Amnesty International called on Canadian authorities Wednesday to arrest former President George W. Bush when he attends an economic summit in the province of British Columbia next week.

The group accused Bush of “responsibility for crimes under international law including torture.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/65810.html#ixzz1ai3ITndh

Bunch of morons.

Kudos to the Canadians for their response:

Quote:
The Canadian government responded to the request with critical words for Amnesty International.

“I cannot comment on individual cases… that said, Amnesty International cherry picks cases to publicize based on ideology. This kind of stunt helps explain why so many respected human rights advocates have abandoned Amnesty International,” Canadian Minister of Citizenship and Immigration Jason Kenney told POLITICO, noting that Amnesty International had never sought a court order to bar Cuban dictator Fidel Castro or Tongolese dicator Gnassingbé Eyadema from Canada.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
109 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2853 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3410 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Bunch of morons.

Don't speak to soon Dreadnaught.

GWBush has already had to cancel a planed visit to Switzerland earlier on this year because of possible arrest warrants being executed against him in the Mountainous tax haven. Groups, like Human Rights, including your own, the New York-based Human Rights Watch, has said this s down to the fact that there are growing moves worldwide, to have GWB arrested for torture.

See full article

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...bush-torture-idUSTRE7141CU20110205

Another example is the canceled visit by the Israeli opposition Ms Tzipi Livni to Britain earlier on this year too. That took the British Government to extremes, declaring that "she was on a special mission" and had been given "Special Mission" immunity.

See full article below

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...zipi-livni-war-crime-arrest-threat

So, as you see, its not only GWB looking over his back all the time, but "others" are also doing just the same

[Edited 2011-10-13 18:47:43]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 1):
Don't speak to soon Dreadnaught.

GWBush has already had to cancel a planed visit to Switzerland earlier on this year because of possible arrest warrants being executed against him in the Mountainous tax haven. Groups, like Human Rights, including your own, the New York-based Human Rights Watch, has said this s down to the fact that there are growing moves to have GWB arrested for torture.

Morons - all of them. Bush as Chief Executive asked for and received legal opinions from the proper authorities before ordering the waterboarding of three asshats.

By your standards, Amnesty and other groups should soon be forthcoming with demands for the arrest of Obama, for the murder without trial of a US citizen (Al-Awlaki). Somehow I doubt that will happen.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2853 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3376 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Bush as Chief Executive asked for and received legal opinions from the proper authorities before ordering the waterboarding of three asshats.

Still, I guess that's why they say its always good to get a second opinion, especially when the "opinions" which were being sought, had never been sought before, and therefore could be open to many interpretations by different jurisdictions, all over the world ?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
By your standards,

They are not my standards.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Amnesty and other groups should soon be forthcoming with demands for the arrest of Obama, for the murder without trial of a US citizen (Al-Awlaki). Somehow I doubt that will happen.

Well Dreadnought, as I said above, GWB is not the only one looking over shoulder, others are doing it too, or soon will be.

The world is a changing place, people expectations are also changing. What was considered acceptable years ago may no longer be. I can only see more of this on the horizon.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4008 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3349 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 3):
The world is a changing place, people expectations are also changing. What was considered acceptable years ago may no longer be. I can only see more of this on the horizon.

Oh, you mean like when they asked for an arrest warrant for Osama Bin Laden for killing hundreds of thousands of people? Oh, somehow I missed that...



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39861 posts, RR: 74
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

I'm no fan of these 'human rights' organizations but I fully support throwing George W Bush behind bars.
His war in Iraq was unjust, destabilized the region, killed thousands of people including our troops and our allies troops. He also damaged the US standing worldwide. I would not be sad to see Dubya behind bars.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11598 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3297 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Bush as Chief Executive asked for and received legal opinions from the proper authorities before ordering the waterboarding of three asshats.

In other words: He got lawyers to find a way to tell the American people that torture is acceptable. Black sites and fear and terror and smoking gun might be a mushroom cloud...

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Amnesty and other groups should soon be forthcoming with demands for the arrest of Obama, for the murder without trial of a US citizen (Al-Awlaki).

Except al-Awlaki was the defacto head of a terrorist organization.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2853 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
Oh, you mean like when they asked for an arrest warrant for Osama Bin Laden for killing hundreds of thousands of people? Oh, somehow I missed that...

Hey, not my call.

If you think Amensity should have gone down that path, then you should've suggested it to them.

That was your missed opportunity, nothing else.

Anyway, as we all know.... that book is finished.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

[quote=seb146,reply=6]Wheel of morality turn, turn, turn. Tell us the lesson that we should learn

That just about sums it up. Thanks Seb!


User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3258 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
from the proper authorities

What proper authorities would that be? Guantanamo Bay on its own could and should lead to prosecution in the International Criminal Court.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Bunch of morons.

Really? Just because they are campaigning that your former President is held accountable for human rights abuses? I suppose you would also call Amnesty International morons for seeking an end to human rights abuses in Iran, China and many other nations?

At the end of the day they only want Dubya to face justice, if he is innocent there should be no fear of any trial outcome.


User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

Meh..Dubya is never going to leave the US again..so this is a non-issue.

BTW..these morons calling for his arrest should also make sure Mugabe, Castro, Chavez, I-want-a-Jihad and all the other nutjobs "face justice" as well. Like that will ever happen  



אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3200 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 6):
In other words: He got lawyers to find a way to tell the American people that torture is acceptable

Since some of our service people were/are waterboarded in training to deal with capture exactly how is it "torture"? Did anyone lose a limb? Scarred for life? People in the Supermax prison in Colorado kept in solitary confinement for years on end are more at risk of being tortured mentally for life than these three were.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 6):
Except al-Awlaki was the defacto head of a terrorist organization.

So are Mafia dons, so should we just execute them on sight as well?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 10):
BTW..these morons calling for his arrest should also make sure Mugabe, Castro, Chavez, I-want-a-Jihad and all the other nutjobs "face justice" as well. Like that will ever happen

Well said. Until they hand out their indictments with an even hand then they have no credibility.


User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2079 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3184 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
Oh, you mean like when they asked for an arrest warrant for Osama Bin Laden for killing hundreds of thousands of people? Oh, somehow I missed that...

You think that would have been necessary? Osama bin Laden would have freely roamed the streets of Canada and it would have taken amnesty internation to ask for a warrant?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 10):

BTW..these morons calling for his arrest should also make sure Mugabe, Castro, Chavez, I-want-a-Jihad and all the other nutjobs "face justice" as well. Like that will ever happen

Are you suggesting that amnesty international ignores the people you mentioned? If so, that's a pretty ridiculous charge. Just google it, you will find plenty of material. Also, AI doesn't "make sure" these people face justice, that's not in their power. They can only draw attention to human rights issues. I don't like their self-righteousness and their broad brush, but they're hardly apologetic of the likes of Mugabe or Castro (or anyone in power really).



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8497 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3084 times:

I would certainly support the arrest of many hundreds of Bush officials including GWB. The case seems pretty foolproof at this point. Iraq, QED. I knew it then and it's still true today. Iraqis had a skin color and religion that resembled the 9/11 attackers. Therefore we incinerated 100,000s of people in Iraq. That was illegal.

User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7953 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
Oh, you mean like when they asked for an arrest warrant for Osama Bin Laden for killing hundreds of thousands of people?

Oh my God ...

Quoting Rara (Reply 12):
You think that would have been necessary? Osama bin Laden would have freely roamed the streets of Canada and it would have taken amnesty internation to ask for a warrant?

Bingo.
Besides, human rights are the individual's rights and freedoms when facing the authority of state. OBL has never been an authority of state for crying out loud!
Human rights are there to limit the power of state officials, not the power of terrorists. For the latter group you have prosecutors, police and maybe the military. It really is too funny when people boldly talk about rights they don't seem to have the faintest idea about.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Bunch of morons.

The 'bunch of morons' demand that Canada takes some contracts seriously. They would be morons *if* they would seriously assume Canada is really going to interrogate Bush "only" because conditions to do so are indeed fulfilled.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5249 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3011 times:

I hope that one day, all of you calling Amnesty morons actually need the help of a human rights organization. We'll see who the morons are at that point...

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Morons - all of them.

 
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Bush as Chief Executive asked for and received legal opinions from the proper authorities before ordering the waterboarding of three asshats.

Funny. More often than not, you're ripping lawyers a new one on this site. However, when they suggest something of which you approve, you're willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. That said, you can find "experts" to confirm any crazy belief out there. The fact of the matter is that the Bush administration authorized the use of torture, and the US lost a hell of a lot of credibility in the process. Your comments suggest that it's OK for a country that always holds itself out as a "beacon" of human rights to use techniques that are barbaric and third world. Sad.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
By your standards, Amnesty and other groups should soon be forthcoming with demands for the arrest of Obama, for the murder without trial of a US citizen (Al-Awlaki). Somehow I doubt that will happen.

Yes, they should. What he did was unconstitutional.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
Oh, you mean like when they asked for an arrest warrant for Osama Bin Laden for killing hundreds of thousands of people? Oh, somehow I missed that...

 
Quoting EDICHC (Reply 9):
Really? Just because they are campaigning that your former President is held accountable for human rights abuses? I suppose you would also call Amnesty International morons for seeking an end to human rights abuses in Iran, China and many other nations?

That doesn't matter to most people in this thread. They dared to suggest that an American committed human rights abuses. That was their cardinal sin.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 10):
BTW..these morons calling for his arrest should also make sure Mugabe, Castro, Chavez, I-want-a-Jihad and all the other nutjobs "face justice" as well. Like that will ever happen
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/venezuela/report-2011
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/zimbabwe/report-2011
http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/cuba/report-2011

Yeah looks like they're just letting Venezuela, Zimbabwe, and Cuba off the hook.   You do realize that there is a difference between committing crimes against your own citizens, and committing crimes against citizens of another country do you not? You also realize that there is a difference between certain acts that actually call for international arrest warrants, and acts that do not right?

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
Since some of our service people were/are waterboarded in training to deal with capture exactly how is it "torture"? Did anyone lose a limb? Scarred for life?

Why don't you volunteer to be waterboarded, and then tell us whether it's torture? Since you're so certain that it's not, you'd be willing to do it right?

Quoting Rara (Reply 12):
Are you suggesting that amnesty international ignores the people you mentioned? If so, that's a pretty ridiculous charge.

To say the least.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 14):
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
Oh, you mean like when they asked for an arrest warrant for Osama Bin Laden for killing hundreds of thousands of people?

Oh my God ...

Yeah that has to be one of the more ridiculous things I've read in a while.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11598 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3007 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 15):
I hope that one day, all of you calling Amnesty morons actually need the help of a human rights organization. We'll see who the morons are at that point...

The same way they treat ACLU. They are a bunch of communitst terrorists who hate America. Excpet when ACLU is standing up for the rights of the right-wing.

Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
Since some of our service people were/are waterboarded in training to deal with capture exactly how is it "torture"?

Some of them that were tortured called it torture. Let AI "detain" Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rove, Rumsfeld, hold them in solitary cells for years without trials and use "enhanced interrogation" on them. Let's just see how long it takes before they sing.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7953 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2992 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
By your standards, Amnesty and other groups should soon be forthcoming with demands for the arrest of Obama, for the murder without trial of a US citizen (Al-Awlaki). Somehow I doubt that will happen.

Well, according to amnesty international, the killing of al-Awlaki was an extrajudicial kiling - unless al-Awlaki was in an ongoing armed conflict, which is difficult to determine:

Quote:
In early 2010, the US government announced a
US$155.3 million security assistance package for Yemen, with US$34.5 million earmarked
for Yemen’s Special Operations Forces to carry out counter-terrorism operations.10 However,
there was little or no evidence of any concern about the impact such security operations can
be expected to have on human rights. This was highlighted in April 2010 when the US
government authorized the killing of al-Qa’ida suspect Anwar al-Awlaki, a US citizen said to
be hiding in Yemen, saying that he posed a direct threat to the USA.11 As will be explained in
greater detail later, targeted killings outside the context of a specific and ongoing armed
conflict constitute extrajudicial executions.12
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/as...b3-bcf8a48fc827/mde310102010en.pdf (page 6)

Amnesty does not care who is the incumbent but what he or she does.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7953 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2971 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 16):
Quoting dxing (Reply 11):
Since some of our service people were/are waterboarded in training to deal with capture exactly how is it "torture"?

Some of them that were tortured called it torture. Let AI "detain" Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rove, Rumsfeld, hold them in solitary cells for years without trials and use "enhanced interrogation" on them. Let's just see how long it takes before they sing.

"Enhanced interrogation" is the key here. While the definition of the term torture is not clear, rules outline that torture is

Quote:
any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions.
http://www.un.org/millennium/law/iv-9.htm

By this definition, 'waterboarding' service men to show them "how a 'waterboard' feels like" would not constitute as torture. Obtaining information from prisoners by 'waterboarding' them is.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2970 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 16):

Some of them that were tortured called it torture

And they also call killing non-believers something their God calls upon them to do. Are they also to be believed when they do that? Go to any jail in the world and ask "who here is innocent?", what sort of show of hands do you think you'll get? Ask, "who here thinks that they are being mistreated?", again what sort of show of hands do you think you'll get? Stop being or acting so naive for once.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 18):
"Enhanced interrogation" is the key here. While the definition of the term torture is not clear, rules outline that torture is

Quote:
any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions.
http://www.un.org/millennium/law/iv-9.htm

That definition is far too broad. Cops who arrest a drug dealer, and threaten him with jail time unless he provides evidence which would allow the arrest of a bigger drug kingpin, would be guilty of torture by this definition. Hell, almost every marital spat could result in the woman (usually) being guilty of torture.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinedxing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2939 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 18):
Obtaining information from prisoners by 'waterboarding' them is.

Except that the United States accepted the treaty with reservation.

http://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDet...TY&mtdsg_no=IV-9&chapter=4&lang=en

United States of America 23

United States of America23

Upon signature :

Declaration:
"The Government of the United States of America reserves the right to communicate, upon ratification, such reservations, interpretive understandings, or declarations as are deemed necessary."

Upon ratification :

Reservations:

"I. The Senate's advice and consent is subject to the following reservations:
(1) That the United States considers itself bound by the obligation under article 16 to prevent 'cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment', only insofar as the term 'cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment' means the cruel, unusual and inhumane treatment or punishment prohibited by the Fifth, Eighth, and/or Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution of the United States.
(2) That pursuant to article 30 (2) the United States declares that it does not consider itself bound by Article 30 (1), but reserves the right specifically to agree to follow this or any other procedure for arbitration in a particular case.

II. The Senate's advice and consent is subject to the following understandings, which shall apply to the obligations of the United States under this Convention:
(1) (a) That with reference to article 1, the United States understands that, in order to constitute torture, an act must be specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering and that mental pain or suffering refers to prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from (1) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering; (2) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality; (3) the threat of imminent death; or (4) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality.


Since the persons in question were only waterboarded a limited amount of times and found out after the first session that providing information requested resulted in the end of the waterboarding, and were subsequently able to speak for themselves in a court, "prolonged" mental mental harm can be ruled out.

There are other reservations to the treaty as well, I only copied the pertinent one. Many countries exempted themselves from extradition of their citizens to stand trial in an international court. Others exempted themselves from the UN's self imposed enforcement role.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29795 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2920 times:

My compliments to the Canadian government calling a spade a spade

And much more politely than I would.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7953 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
Cops who arrest a drug dealer, and threaten him with jail time unless he provides evidence which would allow the arrest of a bigger drug kingpin, would be guilty of torture by this definition.

Not quite unless of course you confuse the threat of serving time in jail with "severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental".

Quoting dxing (Reply 21):
Except that the United States accepted the treaty with reservation.

Yes I know, but I do not know enough about the background and the respective Amendments to comment on your objection.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 22):
My compliments to the Canadian government calling a spade a spade

Well,let's see:

Quoting Jason Kenney (Thread starter):
Amnesty International cherry picks cases to publicize based on ideology.

Which ideology?

Quoting Jason Kenney (Thread starter):
This kind of stunt helps explain why so many respected human rights advocates have abandoned Amnesty International

Which 'respected human rights advocates'?

Quoting Jason Kenney (Thread starter):
Amnesty International had never sought a court order to bar Cuban dictator Fidel Castro or Tongolese dicator Gnassingbé Eyadema from Canada

Not from Canada. Of course neither Human Rights Watch nor ai would mind had Canada brought to justice Fidel Castro or Eyadema (who died in 2005, btw). All Mr. Kenney says is that Canada consequently *never* enforces said human rights declaration which Canada has signed. I guess this could go as ideology, too.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently onlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1218 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2870 times:

Whatever. Slobodan Milosevich had to stand trial for what he did, many Nazis did aswell. In an ideal world, so should GWB.
GWB's crimes are far worse than Milosevich's and coming close to that of the Nazis that hung for their deeds.



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
25 Post contains images BMI727 : Of course not. Obama helped bring about the end of one of America's worst enemies, and for that he should be applauded. Killing terrorists is no long
26 NoUFO : I would like to stress that this is entirely your opinion, and that I have no idea how you could possibly substantiate it. Not that I want you to try
27 flymia : Exactly what I thought. This is offcially the worst statment I have ever seen in Anet.
28 Post contains images Springbok747 : Why? 1. I am not a terrorist 2. I have no plans to go "hiking" in a war zone 3. I don't live in a country run by any of the idiots I mentioned above
29 seb146 : WHAT??? Go back and read the exchange. You are mistaking our service men and women for terrorists. Just so we are clear: Terrorism had nothing at all
30 Post contains images superfly : Amen Tu204! ! ! Dubya's crimes was far greater than Slobodan Milosevich's.
31 JakeOrion : I don't ever recall GWB committing genocide or murdering political opponents. Oh, and we might as well include Obama in that list, since, hey, he's s
32 Post contains images superfly : I agree! I hate Obama as much as I hate Dubya. Throw them both in the sewer!
33 JakeOrion : I'll agree to that. However, holding them for war crimes is a bit...sketchy at best. If there was evidence to prove otherwise, I'm sure the UN (despi
34 PSA53 : Sounds suspect to me.Ultra liberals at the helm at Amnesty? I agree,too.I wouldn't have gone in.But also,which people forget, the Democrats approved
35 superfly : It's very obvious. There were several threads about that a few months ago and all have been locked or deleted. Much information online about it. They
36 dxing : Provide the quote or link where one of our service people who was waterboarded during his or her training has said that then. Even it will be there o
37 Pyrex : What? You must be joking... I take you in better consideration than that to mistake you for the worst type of person there is, a moral relativist. Hu
38 Post contains images n229nw : As many people have pointed out, they don't let those people off the hook. They are quite even-handed and pretty consistent in their condemnations. T
39 NASCARAirforce : I still think Bush was a puppet - he was pressured by two bigger evil men - Darth Cheney and Karl Rove - Rove and Cheney should not only be put behin
40 Post contains links Baroque : And no doubt AI has been reading the Reith lectures 2011 Reith Lectures - Former MI5 Dir-gen (by Baroque Oct 14 2011 in Non Aviation) which rather su
41 tu204 : Well, came pretty close to genocide. Indirect, but his actions led to it in Iraq. As some other members stated, his ILLEGAL actions (invasion of a so
42 dxing : Iraq was a country in violation of numerous UN resolutions. BTW, 46 members are guilty of "illegal" action if what you say is even remotely true.
43 Post contains images Superfly : Yet so many conservatives want to put that actor President (Reagan) on a pedestal. ...and Obama did the same to Libya. Hope & change my ar$e!
44 stealthz : Now you are just being silly.. how can you justify that Obama led the Libya adventure?
45 seb146 : This: came after: Invaded based on lies?
46 tu204 : Yeah, why not. But the driving force was the U.S. administration. Regarding Chechnya - that would be Yeltsin that is guilty of crimes against humanit
47 Superfly : Doesn't matter who "led" the invasion. Its still and invasion and he did it without Congressional approval and he went against yet another campaign p
48 stealthz : And I actually agree there.. not sure what led much of the world(well NATO anyway) to intervene in a domestic squabble when they ignored the rest of
49 Superfly : ...and NATO is mostly the United States.
50 BMI727 : You do realize that Bin Laden never received any help from the US, right? And if by "came around like a boomerang" you mean that it enabled the US to
51 thegreatRDU : I hope I see the day GWB goes on trial for his crimes...
52 Baroque : Funny thing is, quite a lot who might know a tad more than thee and me, suggest quite the opposite. From Wiki, but look at the references: The BBC, i
53 BMI727 : There are plenty of other sources that suggest he didn't. The simple fact is that Bin Laden did not need help from America, being a member of the sec
54 Baroque : So you can demonstrate that the CIA did not assist Maktab al-Khidamat?
55 dxing : So VP Cheney and Sec Def Rumsfield have what? Jedi or Sith mind powers that could make 45 leaders decide to appear to freely join the United States i
56 BMI727 : And you can demonstrate that they did? Bin Laden neither needed nor wanted help from America. He disliked America as much as he disliked the USSR, it
57 tu204 : See above. Its common knowledge that he recieved logistical support from the CIA. And "came around like a boomerang" refers to how the US singlehande
58 Post contains images shamrock604 : The sheer double standards of some on this thread is quite shocking, actually on both sides of the debate. One one hand, the likes of some Human right
59 BMI727 : Except that one of the few things Al Qaeda and the CIA agree on is that it never happened. The story is that Bin Laden, who was already a radical Mus
60 Post contains images Superfly : AMEN to that!
61 ltbewr : You could arrest almost all political and military leaders anywhere in the world past and present for human rights violations. Indeed Besides GWB, his
62 NoUFO : Which human rights group is ignoring the abuses of dictators?
63 Post contains images einsteinboricua : I love this statement. If Obama had pulled out from Afghanistan and Iraq within his first year, we'd be seeing many criticizing him for not bringing
64 Baroque : And if they did not know, they should be punished for inattention.
65 Superfly : Yes. Those would be the people that didn't vote for him in the first place. Those of us who DID vote for Obama trusted that he would get us out. It's
66 seb146 : I seem to recall Oliver North testifying to a Congressional commitee that he felt OBL was a threat. I don't recall exactly when that was, but it was
67 Post contains images dxing : It's "naive" and yes I know how politics work. There is simply no way that the United States or any of its leaders coerces 45 nations, or any signifi
68 Superfly : It was in 1987.
69 Flighty : Well said, I agree. According to American laws, these are highly dangerous people that must be arrested. What matters is the principle (and the law)
70 dxing : Again, what was illegal about this war? Congress voted to support it before the invasion. The UN has not voted on one single resolution condemning th
71 shamrock604 : It was done on a false pretence. By any moral standard, it was an illegal invasion.
72 Post contains links janmnastami : It's obvious, the illegality of that war should be declared by the Security Council, but your country has veto power. In 2004, Kofi Annan declared th
73 Post contains images PSA53 : Absolutely! 100% agreed! It is a political double standard. That's why AI is not creditable. I understand some of that.But Saddam stronged-armed his
74 shamrock604 : Yes, of course it is a double standard. That said, I do slightly understand how some groups would make more out of Bush, Blairs etc conduct, because
75 Post contains links BMI727 : By the mid 1990s he was known. At that point he had already tried to convince King Fahd to not allow American troops to defend Saudi Arabia and in 19
76 dxing : It was done on information that was widely regarded by many countries at the time, even those that did not favor invasion at the time, as being true.
77 Acheron : Just like the US comment's on other countries Human Rights records hold no credibility as long they mantain relationships with countries like Saudi A
78 Flighty : Well, I would differ with you in how to sequence the question. Let's say I dislike New Zealand and want to rule it and cause harm to the nice people
79 dxing : Nothing in that answer supports it being "illegal". Support for it was voted on, and passed in both Houses of Congress. Even after the democratic par
80 MD-90 : If Amnesty International doesn't succeed it really doesn't matter because one day he's going to have to stand before the great "I AM" and justify star
81 Pyrex : Was Iraq right? Not sure I have an answer for that. Did the Iraqis deserve the 5,000 American lives that were expended liberating it from an evil, sad
82 shamrock604 : There was massive dissent among the countries of the world! huge protests were held across the world, but the US was so fervantly on the war path, fe
83 Superfly : Hard to believe but he was the best of a bad lot. Now Iraq is lead by an evil, sadistic religious/political ideology.
84 Pyrex : That might very well be the case, but that still, in itself, does not make it a criminal act. If I am at the beach and rescue someone from drowning,
85 Acheron : Funny considering the history is littered by cases of the US either proping up or supporting evil, sadistic dictators everywhere.
86 shamrock604 : Violating the sovereign territory of another state on a false pretence is always an illegal act. The question is whether Bush knew there was no WMD i
87 Post contains links Baroque : Human rights really is an equal opportunity zone. http://www.smh.com.au/national/sri-l...-of-war-crimes-20111016-1lrmd.html Whatever the more paranoid
88 dxing : Correction, there was massive dissent among people in different countries in the world. That is a far cry from a government dissenting and filing an
89 Superfly : Hmmm, they had more freedom under Saddam Hussein than they do today. Terrorist training and recruitment has flourished in Iraq since Dubya as 'libera
90 dxing : How many of them are getting their tongues cut out? How many rape rooms exist today? How many mass graves have been dug since SH was removed? I'd lik
91 Superfly : Saddam Hussein killed and slashed the tongues of terrorist as most of his political opposition was Islamic militants. There is plenty of information
92 Post contains links Baroque : Not sure about the oil but otherwise Fly might have a point. http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2011/s3341664.htm MARK COLVIN: It looks increasingly as
93 Post contains links iakobos : That statement rests on a (well entertained) vacuum and has nothing to do with any kind of truth. Perhaps never before in history have arms' twisting
94 janmnastami : It's obvious that nobody asked to the Security Council to vote a resolution about the illegality of that war, your country would have used its veto p
95 seb146 : Except: Didn't that service go to the Chinese?
96 Superfly : ...and who's fault is that?
97 NASCARAirforce : I'm sure Hitler's invasion of Poland, Czech, France etc and execution of 10 million Jews, and other non Aryan people passed through all sources in Ge
98 dxing : Then you are in disagreement with the countries of France, Russia, China, etc. for they all thought the weapons were there and consequently voted for
99 janmnastami : It's exactly what you asked: That commission is a recognized national body of the Netherlands.
100 dxing : And its findings were rejected by the government in question. Furthermore it was an independent commission whose findings carried no weight, they wer
101 Post contains images janmnastami : You should have specified from the beginning that you accept only the "type of commissions" that declared the war in Iraq legal .
102 iakobos : A certain Hans Blix could tell you better, or a Mohamed Al Baradei or Dominique de Villepin. You might be mixing Resolution 1441 of November 2002 (ag
103 dxing : No he couldn't have. He wanted more time as he thought that the Iraqis were hiding something and he testified to such. All 49 nations contributed. So
104 iakobos : Bush and associates had made their decision many weeks before, whatever tries Saddam made behind the curtains to "please" the US (check Wiki entry for
105 Baroque : Just keep throwing the "curveballs" Iakobos. Why was he named curveball?
106 Post contains links skyservice_330 : Some background information, to add context: This is not the first time Minister Kenney has publicly gone after AI. This is simply the continuation of
107 dxing : What they decided was to approach from two ends, diplomatic and military preparation. Nothing wrong with that approach at all. Ah, the old "those of
108 PSA53 : Some after thoughts: Bush,Sr should have gone all the way into Iraq. He had a reason to.I wonder if he regrets that decision knowing all the flack Jr.
109 Superfly : Bush Sr. shouldn't have went in to Kuwait. I like what Pat Buchanon said; 'Kuwait is an oil company, not a country'.
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