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Nypd Out Of Control?  
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

I'm sure many of you have heard of the latest ''NYPD ticketing scandal''. New York City police officers have to fulfill supervisor imposed quotas and face demotion if they don't fulfill them and are rewarded with higher evaluations, promotions and bonuses if they exceed said quotas. As a result of this incentivizing of arresting people, a sub culture of corruption and crime has proliferated.

Several NYPD officers have been arrested by the feds for cases of smuggling guns, smuggling illegal cigarettes, ticketing people and even planting drugs on innocent people.

1.) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ent-people-meet-arrest-quotas.html

2.) http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...icted-of-planting-crack-on-couple/

3.) http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/11/...igate-nypds-culture-of-corruption/

4.) http://www.politickerny.com/2011/10/...s-indictments-and-police-protests/

I assume most members of this board are white, but the question remains: Do you still feel safe in New York?

[Edited 2011-11-06 06:51:04]


..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1610 times:

Quoting something (Thread starter):
Do you still feel safe in New York?

Your kiding right? There are over 35,000 NYPD officers and 3,500 auxilary officers. These "scandal's" you bringing up accounts for a couple dozen officers, out of 40,000. As for the question of safety, I feel safer in New York City than any other city in the US.

The media in the UK is reporting what a couple dozen officers are doing wrong, where is the reporting on what the other 39,900 officers are doing right?



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2958 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1599 times:

Well crime is slowly going up in NY but we have a large part of the police force tied up in anti-terrorism . The new WTC complex will have its own precinct with almost 700 cops assigned to it, which is ridiculous considering the heavy security presence that the downtown wall street area already has. I really hate the whole ''just helping a friend out'' regarding tickets. This article explains the rally that some had to defend those charged with the offenses...


http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-some-c...ally-disrespectful,0,1110102.story



short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1565 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
Your kiding right? There are over 35,000 NYPD officers and 3,500 auxilary officers. These "scandal's" you bringing up accounts for a couple dozen officers, out of 40,000. As for the question of safety, I feel safer in New York City than any other city in the US.

The media in the UK is reporting what a couple dozen officers are doing wrong, where is the reporting on what the other 39,900 officers are doing right?

These quotas are imposed on all officers. A few officers may have been caught, but how many haven't? If you are forced to arrest people to fill up a certain quote or face demotion, then what is your alternative? I wouldn't even have paid attention to this article if it, had it just been that, a few cops. But these orders have been rubber stamped by the mayor himself. The corruption therefore lies with the NYPD, not with the individual cops.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1533 times:

Quoting something (Reply 3):
The corruption therefore lies with the NYPD, not with the individual cops.

Nonsense, some people were over zealous for a promotion.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11801 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1515 times:

Quoting something (Reply 3):
If you are forced to arrest people to fill up a certain quote or face demotion, then what is your alternative?

In San Francisco, parking tickets lie with the transportation department, not the police, as I understand. A few weeks ago, SFMTA were handing out tickets without checking the meter time or for a parking permit or anything. Just writing tickets. Many of them were thrown out. I suspect SFMTA ordered a quota as well. I think that time and money could be better spent actually looking for legitimate offenders or cleaning up Muni.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2059 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1337 times:

Quoting something (Thread starter):
I assume most members of this board are white

So what does this have to do with anything?



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9292 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1324 times:

To be human, is to be good, bad, generous, greedy, honest, crooked, smart, stupid, loving, hating, all the human good things, and bad things. We cannot condemn all, for a few who need condemning, and prison.


It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1313 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 7):
We cannot condemn all, for a few who need condemning, and prison.

   There are many fine NYPD officers whose reputation will suffer because of a bad few. Corruption needs to be weeded out. Don't forget, the NYPD has come a far way since decades ago (read about the Knapp Commission!)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1294 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
These "scandal's" you bringing up accounts for a couple dozen officers, out of 40,000.

A few dozen is a few dozen too many though.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8769 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1292 times:

Theoretically, you need a strong and honest Internal Affairs bureau. If police are not policed, they will become super-strength criminals wearing badges. That is theory. But when people like NYPD invoke 9/11 and refuse to be overseen, they will eventually go criminal, or be intimidated/pushed out/killed by those who have gone corrupt. Either you have rule of law or you don't. Charisma or hero status is not a replacement for law.

User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9292 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1290 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 9):
A few dozen is a few dozen too many though.

In a perfect world, yes it would be. By a huge majority, they are honest people, just doing an unpleasant job, dealing with unpleasant people mostly. I remember it well, when they need you, they love you, when they do not, watch out.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1196 times:

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 6):
Quoting something (Thread starter):
I assume most members of this board are white

So what does this have to do with anything?

The article states that it was predominantly hispanic and black male who had drugs planted on them and got arrested unlawfully. I would not imagine a middle aged, white male in Manhattan to encounter the same issues.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1191 times:

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 11):
In a perfect world, yes it would be. By a huge majority, they are honest people, just doing an unpleasant job, dealing with unpleasant people mostly. I remember it well, when they need you, they love you, when they do not, watch out.

But this has nothing to do with ''a few black sheep''. We are not talking about a few cops who did something they shouldn't have done, we are talking about a system wide corruption scheme here. They officers in the one article don't even deny the allegations but are even justifying them (''You help friends out.. that's what you do in every business..'').

But more pervertedly, these quotas that cops have to fulfill, and that urges them to think of ways to fulfill them in the first place, are imposed on them by their supervisors and rubber stamped by the mayor. Every single NYPD will to a greater or lesser degree be guilty of this, or they'd face demotion and pay cuts. The entire institution rewards bads cops, and punishes good cops. The NYPD's objetive is not primarily to make New York a safer place, but to make money writing as many tickets, arresting as many people as possible.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13200 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1153 times:

While the NYPD is considered to be one of the best city police forces in the USA, it has serious problems. One of the most serious is caused by the 'Copstat' database, which is designed to collect information as to patterns of crime, noting hot spots and where to direct more police but is abused in various ways.Far too often it is used to determine promotions, placement of senior management officers and can cause excesses or under policing.

Copstat, developed over 20 years ago in NY City, as with any database has the GIGO (garbage in - garbage out) problem. A series of articles in the Village Voice in late 2010 and earlier this year, noted how some serious crimes, including sexual assault crimes and robbery, are downgraded to prevent the Copstat numbers from making the precincts and it's management officers look bad. In one precinct, it missed patterns of a serial rapist, with far too many women suffering, too many victims not getting fair justice for other crimes against them.

A change needs to be done on the use of Copstat, how data enters it, that it not become abused and in turn cause more corruption problems than it is supposed to prevent.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1134 times:

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 9):
A few dozen is a few dozen too many though.

Statistically it's not.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1050 times:

Quoting something (Reply 13):
these quotas that cops have to fulfill

Many agencies have quotas and rarely do I hear of problems. Never heard of arrest quotas though. This is an egregious violation and these officers should be dealt with accordingly, and the NYPD leaders should take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. But beyond that, I don't see this as a earth-shattering event. Hiccups happen all the time, and of course the NYPD will have more corruption than others because it is one of the largest police forces in the world. The need to improve, and I'm sure they will correct this



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1015 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 16):
Hiccups happen all the time

But with all due respect, do you consider a cop planting crack on a guy to fill his monthly arrest quota a ''hiccup'' ?



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 999 times:

Quoting something (Reply 17):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 16):
Hiccups happen all the time

But with all due respect, do you consider a cop planting crack on a guy to fill his monthly arrest quota a ''hiccup'' ?

Not to the police officer, who should be disciplined accordingly (IMO should never be a cop again.) Hiccup refers to the supervisors. Again, those above the corrupt officers that new about it should be held very accountable (perhaps lose their job depending in their involvement.) But those above the corruption that didn't know should also be held accountable--not crucified or villain-ified, but relieve the *** chewing and be watched--actions must be taken on the higher-ups part. If corruption continues to occur widespread, replace them/have another commission put in place/etc. I was just answering your question:

Quoting something (Thread starter):
Nypd Out Of Control?

No, not in my opinion. They've had problems but they work to fix them. Hiccups refer to the problems occurring and being fixed, no supervisor can stop everything. Again, the NYPD is huge, they can still theoretically have a lower rate of corruption and have more incidents (not saying this is the case.) Read into the Knapp Commission, it's pretty interesting. That was a time when the NYPD was really out of control



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineWarRI1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 9292 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 952 times:

Quoting something (Reply 13):
But this has nothing to do with ''a few black sheep''. We are not talking about a few cops who did something they shouldn't have done, we are talking about a system wide corruption scheme here. They officers in the one article don't even deny the allegations but are even justifying them (''You help friends out.. that's what you do in every business..'').

My point is there are about 680 thousand Police Officers in the US, no federal officers being counted. You cannot place blanket blame on that many, for the actions of a few thousand nationwide.



It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5620 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 948 times:

Quoting alberchico (Reply 2):
Well crime is slowly going up in NY but we have a large part of the police force tied up in anti-terrorism

And it will continue to increase, mathematics suggest it, ....as population increase, so will the numbers of thefts, rapes, etc..

People will not behave better because their are more of them..they behave worse.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):
Corruption needs to be weeded out.

THAT..will never happen, Google up how many NYPD - Corruption stories have been released over the decades..going back to Boss Tweed to the Serpico escapade to past drug/crime rings run by the cops. They don't quit with they get busted..they lie low and return with a new innovative plan to do it all again. But said we need Police services, sadly, the screening process will always fail.

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 946 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):
Corruption needs to be weeded out.

THAT..will never happen,

Corruption, when found, needs to be weeded out.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
They don't quit with they get busted

Who is "they"?

Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
they lie low and return with a new innovative plan to do it all agai

I never said the system was anywhere near perfect, if there are repeat offenders, that is a big problem and should be dealt with...

Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
the screening process will always fail.

I think you're being a bit harsh on police. There is a fair share of bad police, too many IMO, but the majority of cops out there, I believe, are good. It is a stressful job and is very unappreciated, and this un-appreciation (coupled with too low of pay IMO) goes a long way for corruption. But most importantly, police agencies need to be policed--there are too much money, drugs, and guns around police to expect no corruption



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5620 posts, RR: 51
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 932 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 21):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
They don't quit with they get busted

Who is "they"?

The cops

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 21):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):
Corruption needs to be weeded out.

THAT..will never happen,

Corruption, when found, needs to be weeded out.

It gets water thrown on it, some bad cops actually go to jail, but other ones step in...it never ends, thsi has been going on before you were born, before I was born, before there was a United States of America. It'll continue after we're both gone...it's human nature combined with power and greed on a somewhat low level for the most part.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 21):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
they lie low and return with a new innovative plan to do it all agai

I never said the system was anywhere near perfect, if there are repeat offenders, that is a big problem and should be dealt with...

That's what I meant by we need Police services, we certainly can't police ourselves. But as we fill the police uniforms, many times we just need a body - enter the guy who has no business wearing a badge. Or the type who get's in .. learns the system..and figures out a way to manipulate it for financial gain and other vises. That'll never change.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 21):
Quoting BN747 (Reply 20):
the screening process will always fail.

I think you're being a bit harsh on police. There is a fair share of bad police, too many IMO, but the majority of cops out there, I believe, are good. It is a stressful job and is very unappreciated, and this un-appreciation (coupled with too low of pay IMO) goes a long way for corruption. But most importantly, police agencies need to be policed--there are too much money, drugs, and guns around police to expect no corruption

I'm in 100% agreement with no 'if ands or buts'...

However you're failing to understand 'the needs' of the system actually enables the recruitment of bad cops..that's why it won't end. Look at the history police services..it's not pretty. And neither is the job we ask of them (with most of their time being wasted on stupid and silly $hit! Like domestic violence or abuse or worse this..

Of 50,000 Marijuana Arrests In New York City A Year, Most Are Black And Hispanic Men

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1...00-marijuana-arrest_n_1078023.html

There are more arrests for low-level pot possession in New York City – about 50,000 a year – than any other crime, accounting for about one of every seven cases that turn up in criminal courts.

It's a phenomenon that has persisted despite more leniency toward marijuana use – the state loosened its marijuana-possession laws more than 30 years ago.

Critics say the deluge has been driven in part by the New York Police Department's strategy of stopping people and frisking those whom police say meet crime suspects' descriptions. More than a half a million people, mostly black and Hispanic men, were stopped last year – unfair targets, critics say. About 10 percent of stops result in arrests.


...it just doesn't end...



BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 928 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 22):

For once, we are in agreement!  
Quoting BN747 (Reply 22):
Of 50,000 Marijuana Arrests In New York City A Year, Most Are Black And Hispanic Men

This highlights a few bigger problems--the war on drugs (dismal failure and a violation of our liberties IMO,) income disparity for many minorities, and a biased court system--a lot of the bias is unintentional too, sadly. Tackle these problems and the need to police the police becomes less and less!

I hate seeing racist cops. It really ruins it for all cops. During my internship with the police department, I did all I could to pick up any signs of racism or sexism... and to my surprise, I didn't see a trace of it! But their reputations as police was tarnished by other crooked cops--at one traffic stop, the cop I was with was accused of racism, sadly. I was with the officer all day, and these were the only minorities pulled over by him that day and was dealt with the very same way! But I digress.

Because I am pro-cop, I am often seen as an apologist, but on the contrary, I of all people want them to be uncorrupt the most because it hurts me to see all the good cops' reputations get tarnished!



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinejcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 856 times:

Contrary to popular belief, the NYPD is more scared of you than you are of them. An officer can lose their salary, their pension, their life's work if a suit is brought against them -- and there are hundreds of lawyers who make their living suing the New York Police Department, the Fire Department, and the Port Authority and living on their "victims'" settlements. New York is a fraudsters paradise. There is a reason why officers dread going down to Occupy Wall Street. They don't have a someone on a Flip Cam documenting (and editing) an arrest. They want to keep everything safe, meanwhile the person who is videotaping wants to portray the officer in the worst light possible.

That poor police officer who works in Manhattan maybe makes $50k a year and lives in the most expensive city and region in the country. He's doing his job. Leave him alone.



America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
25 EDICHC : To hell with statistics. One is one too many. This is a breach of trust by a public servant, actively perverting the course of justice. As others hav
26 BN747 : The point here is selective enforcement, everyone in NYC knows that tons of non-minorities are smoking up a storm from east village to upper east sid
27 Flighty : Certain areas have no violent crime and no police calls. Those areas will naturally be overlooked in favor of areas where the police are dispatched (
28 BN747 : That has nothing to do with it and those areas certainly would qualify as an open drug drug market - more so on the level of quantity qualifying any
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