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The Speed Limit Debate  
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2548 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2735 times:

There are plans in the UK to raise the speed limit from 70 mph to 80.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-15706033

This limit in the UK was set in 1965 when many cars would struggle to get up there. Now, even the average family car is more than capable of 120 mph plus. Cars are now so much more able to stop as well as go and have so many safety features compared to the Morris Minor's and everything else that was around in 1965.

The argument here is that the faster you go, the more likelyhood of deaths. IMO, its not gong to make too much difference whether its 70 or 80, but there is always the risk of people taking advantage of relaxed laws and relying on safety features.

When I was in the UK, it was common for cars to be doing 80-90. It seemed to be the unwritten law that cops for the most part would be OK with up to 90, but anything over was a no no. If the limit increases 10 mph, will this "grace margin" also increase and people tend to cruise between 90 & 100? There are some nasty crashes in Germany, but for the most part the unrestricted authobahn's seem to work OK.

IMO, it should be addressed with better training / learning. maybe a mandatory advanced or motorway / high speed driving test. I also think this should be an obligatory insurance requirement prior to owning a high powered supercar like a Porsche.

What do you think?


Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2720 times:

There are two states in the U.S. that have 80 mph maximum speed limits: Texas and Utah. Texas actually now legally allows 85 mph limits, although no highways have been raised to 85 mph yet.

The following states have 75 mph speed limits:
Arizona
Colorado
Idaho
Kansas
Louisiana (I-49 only)
Maine
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Mexico
North Dakota
Oklahoma (Turnpikes only)
South Dakota
Wyoming



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11708 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2717 times:

I think most people were in favor of this idea, but the recent massive accident on the M5 has lead to a lot of opposition to this rise from road safety groups and this has made many motorists unsure if raising the limit is still a good idea. Especially as every reasonably common accident is now from page news on websites, just like ever minor aircraft incident is over zealously reported in the wake of a crash.

My personal belief is that the limit should be raised to 80, but that a lower limit (of 70, or even 60) should be applied for particularly bad weather conditions. Enough motorways now have programmable digital advice/warning signs for motorists to be made aware of when such a lower limit was in force. At the moment these advisory signs reporting 'Fog' or lower advisory limits like '50' are ignored by pretty much all motorists because they aren't updated when incidents/weather have cleared, which inevitably means when they are accurate you have a lot of people getting into dangerous situations because they have't adhered to the warning.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7979 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter):
There are plans in the UK to raise the speed limit from 70 mph to 80

Does the UK still use mph or are you making it easier for us Americans? I thought they used kph by now!



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2668 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
Does the UK still use mph or are you making it easier for us Americans? I thought they used kph by now!

Nope, the UK still uses Imperial measurements on highways. Everything else is metric though.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2657 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
Does the UK still use mph or are you making it easier for us Americans?

We use MPH, and it is staying that way!!!!!!!! MPH is so much easier and better, I don't even really know KPH...    



3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7979 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

Weird! Learn something new everyday. Now if yall only drove on the correct side...   


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2645 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
Weird! Learn something new everyday. Now if yall only drove on the correct side...

Haha sorry what was that DeltaMD90... oh yes we do drive on the correct side!  



3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2628 times:

Fortunately, while it may make sense to expect scofflaws to exceed the new limit by as much as they exceeded the old one, research has shown otherwise. In fact, it is a actually more dangerous to set speed limits lower than the appropriate speed for the road, based upon it's alignment, condition and environment.

Assuming the higher limits are implemented on roads for which they are appropriate, you need not fear a bloodbath.

This will not, of course, stop the ignorant from spouting their blather.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11708 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2628 times:

Best bit is that we design roads in meters and kilometers and then have to convert the distances into yards and miles to apply signage. Just one of those quirky British traits 


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13200 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2614 times:

To me, raising the speed limits to much higher limits for cars in the UK, from the current 70 to 80, is a bad idea. If I am correct, by law, HGV's (trucks to us) and buses are limited to 55 mph to hold down excessive fuel consumption, excessive pollution, for safety and to conform with the rest of the EC. Having a greater difference in traffic speeds can cause a lot of accident risks. Let us not forget too that many really cannot drive safely at such higher speeds, especially if weak rules to qualify for and keep a license, are older, inexperienced or just too stupid to ever have got a license. Some have problems even at lower speeds. Too many vehicles are not properly maintained, have difficulty keeping up to speed due to small engines and would be a waste of expensive fuel. On high volumes roads, too many would drive too close, weave through traffic. I have driven several times in many areas of the UK from unmarked back roads to Motorways in 1986, 1993, 1996 and 2002 in modest rental cars. I must admit on some Motorways, I was driving 80+ MPH.

Even in the USA, I disagree with higher speed limits over 70 for the reasons I cited above for the UK. Some state limit speeds of trucks to 55-60, many trucking companies have policies, monitors and governors to limit max speed to 60-65 mph to hold down fuel costs as they have risen in recent years. Some states have lower speed limits at night for all drivers or for trucks.

Better might be to do like our state of Montana did during the 55 MPH era, for speeding up to 10-15 over the limit, it was a no points 'energy wasting ticket'. Let's say the limit is 65, allow up to 75 for an energy wasting ticket unless conditions are poor like rain, snow, ice, fog, and so on. For the UK, on the rural area M-roads, currently at 70 MPH, then anything over 80 = a ticket. Also, ban the 'speed cameras', they are a poor substitute for a human cop who can see drunk and dangerous driver even if under the speed limits and too much of the fines collected go to private companies that run the scamaras.


User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4898 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2609 times:

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 7):
Haha sorry what was that DeltaMD90... oh yes we do drive on the correct side!

Lies, we drive on the right side  
Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter):
IMO, it should be addressed with better training / learning.

At least in the US, driver's ed training is a joke. There's no structured training involved, and once you get the license, you're on your own. Compared to a pilot's license where every two years you have to either go for another checkride (add an instrument rating, etc.) or have a flight review. And what do we end up with? Stupid drivers with no regard for traffic law or basic technique.



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2603 times:

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 11):
Lies, we drive on the right side

Haha, your telling lies. We are the correct side.    



3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4865 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2587 times:

I think its a great idea.
The only thing that needs to happen as a result of increasing speed limits is to provide more training/information to keep motorists aware of the dangers in bad conditions (ie if its foggy slow down to avoid massive motorway pileups like on the M5 recently).

This is one of my favourite articles... very informative about how many governments/law enforcement policies are ridiculous.

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/s...-kill-says-benz-20100304-pjin.html



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15833 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter):
There are plans in the UK to raise the speed limit from 70 mph to 80.

Good for them.

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter):
The argument here is that the faster you go, the more likelyhood of deaths.

It's differential in speed that tends to make more of a difference.

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter):
IMO, it should be addressed with better training / learning. maybe a mandatory advanced or motorway / high speed driving test.

I think the US especially should beef up drivers ed. programs and modify the roads a bit and go unrestricted. There is no reason why 70-90% of the US should have a speed limit on interstates.

Quoting YVRLTN (Thread starter):
I also think this should be an obligatory insurance requirement prior to owning a high powered supercar like a Porsche.

That's already addressed via insurance costs. If insurance companies want to start their own optional training programs, good for them.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
Enough motorways now have programmable digital advice/warning signs for motorists to be made aware of when such a lower limit was in force.

St. Louis used to have adjustable speed limits, which everyone ignored. Now it's adjustable advisory speeds, which everyone ignores. It doesn't help that people here drive like idiots. One raindrop and they decide that they have to go 40 on the interstate.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 10):
If I am correct, by law, HGV's (trucks to us) and buses are limited to 55 mph to hold down excessive fuel consumption, excessive pollution, for safety and to conform with the rest of the EC. Having a greater difference in traffic speeds can cause a lot of accident risks.

Germany seems to have no problems, and Illinois recently ditched their truck speed limits. Trucks just ignored it and did 65 anyway.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

Fine idea IMO. Spee limits are low. Here in the US any highway with a 55mph limit is a joke IMO because it has been 55mph since the 50s! If cars in the 50s could travel at 55mph how can cars now be limited to 55mph. I think every highway speed limit in this country should go up at least 5 to 10mph. 5 for urban highways with many exits and 10 for any other. There is a highway here in Miami-Dade County the 836 west and east bound it is straight with all exits to the right every mile and a half or so. No turns 3-4 lanes the speed limit is 55mph! I rarely do 55 on that road and have even past police officers going 15mph above it. (did not get stopped)

As for the grace debate thing I think it does go with it. Thankfully some highways here in Florida have 70mph limits. It is funny I was on one of those roads last night so many people were going under 70mph like they were scared. In a 70mph zone I see no problem going around 80-82mph and I honestly do not think the police care too much either for those speeds as they know there will be people going 95mph+ too.

Cars these days are so safe and so much better than in the 50s and 60s speed limits and many highways are way too low.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2513 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 10):

Even in the USA, I disagree with higher speed limits over 70 for the reasons I cited above for the UK. Some state limit speeds of trucks to 55-60, many trucking companies have policies, monitors and governors to limit max speed to 60-65 mph to hold down fuel costs as they have risen in recent years. Some states have lower speed limits at night for all drivers or for trucks.

I note, from your profile, that you're from the eastern seaboard, and distances between cities are much less there, and congestion much greater, than we see in most of this part of the country.

There are plenty of places where 55 is too much - but on I-10, between San Antonio and El Paso, 80 mph is creeping.

Really.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Juncti...DqW6mCCXTlZnRlg&cbp=12,304.36,,0,0



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20351 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):

Weird! Learn something new everyday. Now if yall only drove on the correct side...

You worded that incorrectly. It should have been "Now, if yall only drove on the RIGHT side..."

After all, if we drive on the right side, then it's only logical that they drive on the wrong side. Right is the opposite of wrong...


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7979 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2488 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):

Weird! Learn something new everyday. Now if yall only drove on the correct side...

You worded that incorrectly. It should have been "Now, if yall only drove on the RIGHT side..."

After all, if we drive on the right side, then it's only logical that they drive on the wrong side. Right is the opposite of wrong...

I was saving that for the rebuttal, but someone else stole my thunder!  



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBaroque From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 15380 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2481 times:

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 12):
Haha, your telling lies. We are the correct side.

So how do yall get on your horses - high or not? From the port side or the starboard?

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 9):
Best bit is that we design roads in meters and kilometers and then have to convert the distances into yards and miles to apply signage.

IIRC, while trying to find where I was on M4 at the end Sept while in a bus headed for Bristol, most signs were plain black, intersections signs were OK, and there were the "mileposts" but they seemed to be in kms. I was trying to SMS my rels to tell them where I was, and the blacked out signs were a real pain.

We have advisory signs on our freeways in Aus, but they seldom provide relevant or timely information. Mind with the F6 to Wollongong, one minute it can be thick fog and two minutes later clear as a bell. Much more variable than the UK. The signs are no help at all. So good luck with advisory signs.

A cousin of mine once remarked that up north in England - near Newcastle to be precise, I should keep close to 70 mph but that could gradually be increased as I went S and 85 would be best on the M25 - provided traffic was moving at all. It did seem that traffic got faster and faster the further S I went. Was that imagination, or are there changes in policing as you go from N to S?


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40070 posts, RR: 74
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

Raising the speed limit is always a good thing.  
Kudos to the UK.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 16):
between San Antonio and El Paso, 80 mph is creeping.

Sounds like the perfect stretch of highway to fly in a 1976 Cadillac Eldorado convertible blasting your favorite ZZ Top 8track tapes.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2478 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

Just do as the Danes  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUU6DJwkoyQ

User currently onlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5746 posts, RR: 44
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2391 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
After all, if we drive on the right side, then it's only logical that they drive on the wrong side. Right is the opposite of wrong...

Ah, you may believe you drive on the "right side" but that does differentiate you from those of us that drive on the "correct side"

Here in Oz there are many roads that could support speeds greater than the default 110kph(often100kph) but those insipid buffoons we insist on placing in office every few years will not make that call!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinebill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2382 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 22):
Here in Oz there are many roads that could support speeds greater than the default 110kph(often100kph) but those insipid buffoons we insist on placing in office every few years will not make that call!

Unless you're in the Northern Territory where they set their speed limit at a sensible 130 kph


User currently onlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5746 posts, RR: 44
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2378 times:
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Quoting bill142 (Reply 23):
Unless you're in the Northern Territory where they set their speed limit at a sensible 130 kph

Recently downsized from a sensible...arguably, based on traffic density, unrestricted!!!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
25 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Interesting, how do you mean blacked out? As in signs weren't illuminated, or that the large displays at the side of the road weren't working? The la
26 Baroque : I forget exactly how it goes, but after you have an intersection (and ??before it) you have a very large sign at about 5 m above the road, that gives
27 Post contains images CXfirst : Of all the people I meet, the ones that I hear complaining about low speed limits are always the Brits! Even though the official top speed limit in Au
28 Post contains links flyingturtle : News from here. In Switzerland, we'll try a 80 kph (50 mph) speed limit if there's much traffic on the autobahn in order to prevent traffic jams. The
29 dreadnought : The reason higher speed limits work in some countries (including Germany) is lane discipline. If people religiously use the left lane only for passin
30 IH8BY : I have to say the plan to raise the speed limit came as something of a surprise to me - I was expecting it to be lowered if anything... I have to say
31 Post contains images Superfly : Oh gosh. Glad to see the UK move away from the fundamentalist environmentalist sect. Those on a tight budget will continue to buy small fuel efficien
32 GBLKD : Strangely the onboard computer on my 1.6 Golf shows around 37-40 mpg at around 65 mph but if I wind it up to 80 (14 miles each way on the A14 to work
33 Baroque : Where do the two speeds end up on the torque curve in top gear? Might be that and not a faulty computer????
34 racko : Saw a documentary on Mercedes research regarding road safety recently: Actually no speed limit can raise road safety, as it increases driver awareness
35 lh526 : Dear world, speed limit? What's that? sincerely, Germany
36 Flighty : Relatively few deaths occur on US "interstate" highways. The danger of driving an appropriate car at say 95 mph on interstate is very low.. But, most
37 Aesma : British country roads are twisty and narrow. What you need on them is a Lotus. That's very true. On a 550Km trip I do often, the first half is 130Km/
38 Post contains images YVRLTN : Thanks for the replies. Maybe things have changed in the 6 years since I left, but roads I used to use regularly - and could cruise at 90+ (particular
39 A346Dude : In Ontario, speed limits are lower than reasonable so pretty much everyone does 10-20km/h over the limit at all times. For example, 10km/h over the li
40 Superfly : In that case I'd rather have a Triumph TR-7 or a classic MG roadster. I respect Lotus but their designs look too much like a toy.
41 Post contains links Baroque : He needs to try the cars he prefers on the roads around Bovington. And see what happens when he meets a: http://www.militarypictures.info/armour/Chal
42 Starbuk7 : Every day on my way to and from work I see so many drivers that should not even be driving a car on the road no matter what the speed limit is. It doe
43 PanHAM : Same here, contrary to popular belief, there are only a few thousand kilomteres on some Autobahns which are not restricted. Gnereally, peopl drive 10
44 Post contains images WildcatYXU : Don't worry, it works. I mean the speed difference between trucks and cars. In several European countries there is a 40 km/h (24.86 mph for those pre
45 BMI727 : I don't think that's a good idea, having separate licenses and such. It's impractical and creates the serious potential for police discrimination. An
46 N1120A : Good. Now they need to raise them again. The UK, in particular, should have truly reasonable speed limits, because they use those insipid speed camer
47 kngkyle : I'm all for higher speed limits. Here in Florida the standard is 70 on expressways (not in the city) which means you can usually go 80 or so without a
48 Superfly : The last thing the US is need is more enforcement of anything. There are too many rules, steep penalties and expensive court cost. Don't give our gov
49 JJJ : So what would you do with left lane hoggers? Would you rather have people overtaking in zig zag?
50 Superfly : I have a feeling that law enforcement officials wouldn't cite those drivers.
51 JJJ : Well, they should. Germany actually has significant fines for left lane hogging. I can see American freeway driving getting a little better with a few
52 BMI727 : Around St. Louis they seem to drive in the left lane except to pass.
53 garpd : I'm both for and against raising the speed limit in the UK. For: On some roads, it will decrease journey times and allow traffic to flow more freely.
54 Superfly : I hear what you are saying but I'm not keen on handing any more power over to the government. Even if the intentions are good. The government in the
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