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Cadillac Unveil 2013 Cadillac XTS  
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5519 times:

2012 Cadillac XTS (Official GM Photo)


Cadillac published photos of its production version of its new 2013 XTS model on its website, just ahead of the Los Angeles Auto Show. The new XTS should be in dealerships by spring 2012

The 2013 Cadillac XTS will be a "stretch" Epsilon (called E2 within GM) platform based sedan - a larger and more luxurious sedan than the "regular" Epsilon-based Buick LaCrosse and Chevy Malibu. The new XTS, Buick Regal, and the next-generation Chevy Impala are built in Canada --due to the fact that GM's Oshawa assembly plant has greater flexibility for building vehicles of different types and sizes. That's especially important now as GM needs to be able to juggle and adjust its production to meet with rapidly changing market demand and changing Federal Government fuel economy standards - and gasoline costs.

GM's E2 architecture itself, which comes in three basic sizes. The 2013 Cadillac XTS is designed on the largest variation, as is fitting new flagship car for GM. The Regal uses the smallest version of the Epsilon platform, the LaCrosse and next-generation Impala the mid-sized Epsilon platform. If Saab somehow survives as a manufacturer, the new 9-5 sedan is the "platform mate" of the XTS as it also utilized the "E2" platform. All Epsilon platforms are engineered to accommodate front-wheel-drive OR all-wheel-drive powertrains, so expect the 2013 Cadillac XTS to offer those choices.

However, the E2 platform cannot accommodate a V8 engine unfortunately, so look for the 2013 Cadillac XTS to come with the top-line LaCrosse option, a 3.6-liter V6 with direct fuel injection. It is rumored that this engined will be tuned for XTS duty, adding 20 horsepower and additional torque over Buick's version - which will be needed due to the Cadillac's greater weight. The sole transmission will be the same 6-speed automatic used by Buick. There is also rumors that a hybrid version of the XTS will also be available, but may be delayed in appearing in the marketplace until sometime next year. There is also a turbocharged version of the XTS' V6 engine rumored to be in the wings, as Lincoln offered a twin-turbo "Ecoboost" V6 in its current MKS sedan - and higher output motors are also offered by the Lexus LS and the Hyundai Genesis - and Daimler and BMW.

Now, Cadillac senior management has leaked to the automotive that they are moving forward with plans for a "true flagship" sedan, complete with a full-sized rear-wheel drive (and all-wheel drive) platform and at least a twin-turbo V6 - and a V8 remains a possiblity. The recent (huge) Ciel concept car is rumored to strongly hint at the upcoming "Flagship" that is aimed at the Mercedes S-class and BMW 7-series buyers market. However, this model is still at least 3 model years away.

As a side note - Ford's Lincoln division is also said to be working on a RWD flagship sedan, aimed at the same market as this Cadillac, to slot in above the current (underachieving) MKS sedan. Ford, recently quite profitable, is said to now have enough available funding to support the engineering and development of a RWD "Continental" (please call it that, Lincoln). It is rumored that this "Continental" will be based on a heavily revised version of the Mustang platform - meaning that a V8 engine is probably in the cards. Of course, if Ford was VERY smart, they would find a way to keep the Aussie Ford Falcon as a RWD sedan (with a V8, please) and share the architecture with Lincoln to keep unit costs down. We shall see!

[Edited 2011-11-14 21:14:05]

[Edited 2011-11-14 21:29:59]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
the E2 platform cannot accommodate a V8 engine unfortunately, so look for the 2013 Cadillac XTS to come with the top-line LaCrosse option, a 3.6-liter V6 with direct fuel injection.

Why did Cadillac even bother?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

GM and Ford would both be well-advised to solicit assistance from their crafty, agile and creative Australian operations.


...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlinesrqmuc From Germany, joined Jun 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5444 times:

Looks like a Opel Insignia to me. I know that Cadillac used to be a premium brand in the US but I certainly wouldn't pay premium BMW or Mercedes prices.

It looks neat, though! If the price is right, why not?


User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 3013 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5406 times:

Saw these a week or so ago.

Not to bad. Cadillac is *finally* designing cars that where done with something other than a ruler.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7827 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5388 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Of course, if Ford was VERY smart, they would find a way to keep the Aussie Ford Falcon as a RWD sedan (with a V8, please) and share the architecture with Lincoln to keep unit costs down. We shall see!

The RWD Aussie Falcon is dead, the current model will be the last RWD Falcon, it also looks like the next Commodore will also be the last RWD Aussie Commodore as well, they don't sell well, the market for cars like this is drying up, so why make something that the vast majority of people don't want to satisfy a few, not good economics.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Why did Cadillac even bother?

Because V8's are no longer wanted by most people, the main market for this car will be North America, if they think they won't sell enough V8's to cover the cost of the engineering changes to fit in a V8 why bother; the other market will most likely be China and they tax the crap out of cars with more than 6 cylinders so no point in developing it is there?

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
The recent (huge) Ciel concept car is rumored to strongly hint at the upcoming "Flagship" that is aimed at the Mercedes S-class and BMW 7-series buyers market. However, this model is still at least 3 model years away.

I hope GM build the Ciel, I thought it was a great looking car, hopefully they don't sell it to funeral homes and limo companies, that would be a tragedy. What would be enev cooler would be to make this into an ultra bespoke, handbuild flagship to challenge the RR Phanton, Maybach and Mulsanne but at 7 series, A8 & S Class prices.


User currently offlinecharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 4):
Cadillac is *finally* designing cars that where done with something other than a ruler.

My first reaction as well! I absolutely can't stand the looks of the current CTS, SRX, Escalade, et al, with all those angular shapes and straight lines. At least this car has some curves to break up the monotony of straight lines.

That said, I'm not convinced it's enough to lure Audi/BMW/Mercedes-Benz buyers. Even more troubling, I don't think they can extract the same premiums as the Germans do. Why? I see two main cons:

- The name - Cadillac has diluted its image with these alpha-numeric labels for their cars. In the German brands the nomenclature actually has some meaning behind it (BMW has Series, Mercedes has classes). Either Cadillac needs to come with a nomenclature that works for them in establishing a "brand" (e.g., buyers buy E-Classes or talk about their 5-Series) or else go back to using real names. Lexus and Infiniti learned this as well and now people can place an RX or a G in the marketplace, knowing exactly what those letters mean. With Cadillac we went from STS to DTS to CTS to now XTS...no pattern in here, nothing unique.

- The platform - essentially they are trying to use a non-so premium platform in a car with a premium sticker. It could probably work for the price point up to and including a 3-Series/C-Class/A4/ES/G competitor but once you cross that barrier buyers will expect a more sophisticated platform. I don't think it has to be RWD necessarily (Audi has found GREAT success without RWD platforms in the A4 for instance) but a bespoke platform for premium cars allows you to tailor the suspension settings, the body reflexes, and the way the car behaves. Perhaps the marketplace won't have a problem with it, particularly if they sell it to the Florida/pensioner crowd (which is still a large base of customers). But it might limit Cadillac in offering a true AMG/M-Division/S-Line competitor if they decide to do an XTS-V, particularly without the possibility of adding a V-8.

I do see some pros besides the styling though:

-Price - if they keep it reasonably priced and full of kit then it could be considered a great value
-Brand recognition - driving a Cadillac still says you got money; as great as it is, I'm sure some people avoided the Hyundai Genesis because of the badge on the bonnet.
-Interior - from concept photos it looks like it will have competitive finishes inside. If the LaCrosse is any indication, GM can indeed design a good interior with the proper ambience.
-Availability - I'm guessing that there are still parts of the country where there's a Cadillac dealer with no direct competition from the other luxury brands.
-It's American - while some people won't buy it because of past experiences with GM/American cars or because of the much-publicized bailout, some people do want to buy an American car. If that's the case, this will be the only viable option (the Lincoln MKS is struggling as it is and won't be a direct competitor of this car and the Chrysler 300 might be perceived as not being exclusive enough).

I certainly look forward to see the market's reaction to this car. It has been much anticipated.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5359 times:

It kind of reminds me of the Catera from 1995. Actually the back of the Catera was better looking.

GM has very good (if cautious) engineering. But this isn't a classic Cadillac the way people over age 25 remember them. And poeple over 25 purchase probably >99% of Cadillacs.

Hard to know what they are selling here. Does it look like Cadillac... no... kind of like an aardvark. Looks like it was designed for crash + pedestrian regulations... not low + wide the way Cadillac is traditionally known.


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7827 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5339 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
But this isn't a classic Cadillac the way people over age 25 remember them. And poeple over 25 purchase probably >99% of Cadillacs.

That's like saying 99% of people who buy houses are over 25, I'd say the average Cadillac buyer is probably closer to 55 than they would be to 25.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15831 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5335 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
The 2013 Cadillac XTS is designed on the largest variation, as is fitting new flagship car for GM.

Front wheel drive flagship my ass.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Now, Cadillac senior management has leaked to the automotive that they are moving forward with plans for a "true flagship" sedan,

They've been doing that for the last decade, yet they keep coming out with crap like this.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
The recent (huge) Ciel concept car is rumored to strongly hint at the upcoming "Flagship" that is aimed at the Mercedes S-class and BMW 7-series buyers market. However, this model is still at least 3 model years away.

They should have put the Ciel into production as a Continental GT/CL Class/6 Series competitor yesterday.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 2):
GM and Ford would both be well-advised to solicit assistance from their crafty, agile and creative Australian operations.

GM did and it was great. Then they stopped. It's like GM is a company determined to fail.

Quoting charles79 (Reply 6):
driving a Cadillac still says you got money;

...from your IRA.

By the way, did anyone see the rendering of the new C7 Corvette yesterday? It is a good looking car to be sure, but not original at all. It looks like a Ferrari GTR or Nissan 599, which are two good examples to draw from, but perhaps a bit disappointing for the new Vette.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3757 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5324 times:

It looks to much like a La Cross, yes they are on the same platform, but Cadillacs should look better than any GM product. I guess this a GM MKS.   

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5283 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 1):
Why did Cadillac even bother?

They need to replace the DeVille (now called the DTS) and it has to be smaller for better MPG numbers. I think calling a DeVille would have been wise, but some people in GM Marketing are apparently in fear of the initial cars from overseas and has to follow them. pity.

Quoting srqmuc (Reply 3):
Looks like a Opel Insignia to me.

GM has benefitted a lot from Opel engineering, as has Holden. We actually bought a Commodore (the second generation) that was from Opel. i thought it was going to be Caddy's original small car, which would have been very good. (As opposed to the Cameron, which was a POS.)

Overall I wish Opel had even more influence on GM in the US. I would have been more than happy if Opels were rebadged Saturn and assembled in the US.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 4):
Cadillac is *finally* designing cars that where done with something other than a ruler.

I'll agree with that.

Quoting charles79 (Reply 6):
The name - Cadillac has diluted its image with these alpha-numeric labels for their cars.

I'll really agree with that!

Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
But this isn't a classic Cadillac the way people over age 25 remember them.

I believe that the XTS might be OK - especially if they get did of the WTF lettering. Give if a name people RECOGNIZE.

In terms of the car, "older" people look at things like ease of entry & exit, comfort (especially on trips), trunk room (for those trips) and how it drives. Since Caddy's are heavier than most cars the drive characteristics should be able to make their market happy. We'll just have to see.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 month 6 days ago) and read 5260 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 8):
I'd say the average Cadillac buyer is probably closer to 55 than they would be to 25.

Of course, so WTH are they doing. On the one hand, they fully understand the market for Chevy Camaro. The 1969 design (a modern classic, reborn) is what people want. Meanwhile, this kind of knowledge is lost on Cadillac.

Here's a Cadillac (note the proportions). This is a FWD car by the way.

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1960-1969/1967-Cadillac-Eldorado-4.jpg


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5210 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
The 1969 design (a modern classic, reborn) is what people want.

Those were in the ending years for interesting designs for a lot of cars. From the mid-50s on the Detroit auto design world was pretty dynamic, with new designs hitting the market in September, really shaking up designs. In those days, however, a middle class family could but a new car every 2 or 3 years.


User currently offlinejcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5176 times:

What percent of the interior is made of faux-wood/metallic/plastic polymer?

What about the "leather?" How much was it made in the US?

Predictably, the car is piece of shit that will have no value in three years except in the gypsy cab world.

[Edited 2011-11-15 21:51:32]


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7827 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
Of course, so WTH are they doing. On the one hand, they fully understand the market for Chevy Camaro. The 1969 design (a modern classic, reborn) is what people want. Meanwhile, this kind of knowledge is lost on Cadillac.

Here's a Cadillac (note the proportions). This is a FWD car by the way.

And how many 55 year olds with money want to drive something like that, they like there German and Japanese executive and luxury cars, with a few exceptional wonderful people buying Jags. I don't think a traditional American style luxury car would cut it in todays market, especially when it will have to sell outside of the US in China and most likely Europe.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15831 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
And how many 55 year olds with money want to drive something like that, they like there German and Japanese executive and luxury cars,

Maybe they're too old to remember how mediocre Cadillac has become.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
I don't think a traditional American style luxury car would cut it in todays market, especially when it will have to sell outside of the US in China and most likely Europe.

   They need to make their cars more luxurious without being tacky, compact without being small, athletic without being hardcore, and generally the way luxury cars should be rather than continually trying to origami rather pedestrian cars into luxury offerings.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
Here's a Cadillac (note the proportions). This is a FWD car by the way.

Those cars were massive on the outside but not so big inside. That much heft should have more space on the inside.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5131 times:

It's no coincidence that the only hit luxury cars to come out of America in the past decade have been the RWD Chrysler 300 and Cadillac CTS.

Are the people at GM really that dense? You need RWD in this segment. Even the critically acclaimed A6 has struggled in the U.S. with a FWD platform.



a.
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7827 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5116 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
They need to make their cars more luxurious without being tacky, compact without being small, athletic without being hardcore, and generally the way luxury cars should be rather than continually trying to origami rather pedestrian cars into luxury offerings.

Basically what you're saying is that they need to bluild a Lexus LS600.


Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
It's no coincidence that the only hit luxury cars to come out of America in the past decade have been the RWD Chrysler 300 and Cadillac CTS.

I wouldn't call either a luxury car, the CTS is a mid level executive car, and the 300 is a family car with a fancy face.


User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5073 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
I wouldn't call either a luxury car, the CTS is a mid level executive car, and the 300 is a family car with a fancy face.

I think sometimes the definition of a "luxury" car is hard to pin down. What makes a car luxury can be defined differently by different sources - for different folks what dictates what is considered luxury can be the badge, the cost of acquisition, the exclusivity, the drivetrain (FWD vs RWD), the number of cylinders, the existence of wood (or wood-looking plastics!) inside the cabin, the equipment levels, the style, the dealer and after sales experience, and the performance.

My take on it is that what ultimately we are talking about are "premium cars", that is cars which accomplish something more than the traditional car and that perform well on nearly every category (style, braking, ride/handling, equipment levels, comfort, reliability, even safety) from a brand that provides a higher level of service. Consequently, the manufacturers can charge a "premium" for designing such a car. This is where Cadillac really needs to prove itself, in that what they are selling as the XTS indeed commands a premium over, say, a Buick LaCrosse or a Nissan Maxima.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15831 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5061 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 17):
It's no coincidence that the only hit luxury cars to come out of America in the past decade have been the RWD Chrysler 300 and Cadillac CTS.

That's the first time I've seen the Chrysler 300 referred to as a luxury car.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
Basically what you're saying is that they need to bluild a Lexus LS600.

Yep. And that isn't a bad thing at all.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3722 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5032 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 9):
By the way, did anyone see the rendering of the new C7 Corvette yesterday?

I didn't. But I did see the unveiling of a Daytona Prototype.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/11/15/2...tona-prototype-unveiled/#continued

Quoting Flighty (Reply 12):
The 1969 design (a modern classic, reborn) is what people want.

Careful now. Some twit from New Zealand is going to say it was just another American pos.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5031 times:

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 4):
Cadillac is *finally* designing cars that where done with something other than a ruler.

You say that like it's a good thing. The old angular designs might have been a bit jarring, but they were definitely distinctive and rather brash, which is everything a Cadillac should be. This just looks like someone put a Cadillac badge on a Buick. What's the point?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
rather than continually trying to origami rather pedestrian cars into luxury offerings.

That's a very good way of describing the US luxury car market for the past decade-plus.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5018 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 16):
Those cars were massive on the outside but not so big inside. That much heft should have more space on the inside.

That 1967 Eldorado as well as the 1966 Oldsmobile it shared a platform with until 1978 had a flat floor.
Hardly any other front-drive car has a flat floor for front & rear passengers. That car seats 6 adults comfortably.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3722 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 month 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Hardly any other front-drive car has a flat floor for front & rear passengers. That car seats 6 adults comfortably.

With room for 4 more in the trunk.


25 KiwiRob : Haha like that's a classic. You need to take a closer look at some modern FWD cars, loads of them have flat floors.
26 Superfly : Not possible since 'loads of them' have console shift instead of column shift like the 1967 Cadillac Eldorado.
27 KiwiRob : Think again Fiat Multipla Fiat Panda Honda FR-V Honda Odassey Renault Scenic Citroen Picasso
28 PHLBOS : Not ONE of those above-listed vehicles are sold in the U.S. market and one or two of the listed examples aren't even CARS but rather minivans or SUV/
29 BMI727 : I saw that too. Looks just like what Mosler has been making for years. So it's basically an even more thirsty Escalade.
30 Post contains images Stabilator : I'm no car expert, and sorry if this has been pointed out, but to me, it looks like a Buick with a Cadillac sticker on it. I still love the German car
31 Superfly : Probably but who cares? That 1967 Eldorado is 10 times classier, stylish and elegant than the Escalade.
32 Post contains images Revelation : Careful, now, that might lead you to a very bad place:
33 stasisLAX : No, they don't need to build a "beige-mobile" with forgettable styling; besides, the Hyundai Genesis is already quite successful doing that with the
34 zippyjet : Wow, at first I thought that post/picture were from Superfly. That Eldo design is timless. The 2013 Caddy doesn't look too shabby. However, I thought
35 Post contains links and images Superfly : Nah, the Eldorado that year is too small for me. It's a personal luxury coupe. I'd prefer the full-sized Coupe deVille convertible or the Fleetwood B
36 KiwiRob : No he said nothing about being sold in the US market. But it was developed as a Lexus not a Celsior, it was first launched as a Lexus, it was only so
37 Superfly : But that's what I meant since this is a discussion about a car being sold on the US market and I certainly wasn't discussing SUVs. Yes we know its be
38 KiwiRob : Yes but did they sell enough of them to warrent keeping them, I guess we know the answer because they stopped making them. Rather like what's starting
39 Superfly : Read this part again; How do you sell a vehicle in large numbers without marketing it? Hard to sell vehicles if many people aren't aware that it exis
40 PHLBOS : 'Fly, I know you liked these cars (so do I) but the above-statement's not true. The CAFE figure during the mid-90s was 27.5 mpg. A vehicle's CAFE mil
41 Ken777 : Does it real matter? Fake wood? As opposed to real wood that costs money and doesn't add to the car's comfort and driving characteristics. How many c
42 Post contains images Superfly : Well they were pretty damn close and far more efficient than anything from Europe that put out that kind of power at that time. It's not like people
43 KiwiRob : Large RWD luxury cars sell, large RWD family cars don't, GM realised the writing was on the wall before you did and cut them loose when they were no
44 BMI727 : Yes it does. A lot of it looks like crap. And furthermore, it's about the message and image that it projects. Cadillac is supposed to be the standard
45 Superfly : You're right. He is playing games because when people explain a situation and or gives examples, he then results to making snide remarks and personal
46 Post contains images stasisLAX : What GM and Ford (and Chrysler under Daimler management) discovered is that they could make HUGE profits on truck-based SUVs in the 1990's. And the f
47 BMI727 : Yes it does. When it comes to being the standard of the world, Cadillac only talks the talk. Nobody interested in a driving experience will be buying
48 polot : They have been sneaking them in for a couple of years now. The CTS coupe and wagon have the subtle tailfins, can't remember with the SRX, but I think
49 Post contains images 747400sp : So what you call a Dodge Charger? The V-6 Charger competes with the Ford Taurus and Chevy Impala ( both FWD cars), yet it is RWD. Now can a Charger p
50 polot : Dodge has sold a little less than 60,000 Chargers YTD thru October (+ ~27,000 Chrysler 300s). Honda has sold 203,000 Accords. That is more than the T
51 PHLBOS : The Charger will likely get more of a sales boost as police departments scrounge to find suitable replacements for their older CVPIs (Fords).
52 KiwiRob : An anomaly, one that probably won't last too much longer.
53 KiwiRob : The base commodore isn't that good a car, GM Australia have already indicated that it will most likely be the last Aussie developed RWD Commodore. An
54 PHLBOS : The cars (specifically the manufacturers) could always offer an AWD option for those RWD-platformed vehicles. Many people living in the snow belt hav
55 KiwiRob : True so why go with RWD to start with when it's easier to build an AWD starting with a FWD car, it's also more efficient, it's also easier to decouple
56 mham001 : Standard of the world? It's been a very long time since anybody, including GM thought that. There was another reason. Slow sales.
57 racko : Take a look at the Audi R8 facelift coming in 2012. They're definitely moving in that direction.
58 stasisLAX : Well, the Charger and its platform-mate Chrysler 300 are the bastard off-spring of the Chrysler/Daimler corporate "merger of equals". The platform th
59 Post contains images jcs17 : A luxury car buyer doesn't want his "faux wood" to start peeling after three years in the California sun. My sister owned a '00 Jeep Grand Cherokee i
60 KiwiRob : It's even worse than that, the LX platform is a RWD conversion of the previous LH platform with some Mercedes components thrown in to make it possibl
61 Superfly : Cadillac hasn't used that tagline since the 1950s. Or even better, Toyota could simply export their existing Toyota Crown Royal Saloon and Majesta to
62 polot : Cadillac is using that tagline now. Which doesn't really mean all that much. It is possible to have too much wood (synthetic or otherwise) in a car.
63 Post contains links and images Superfly : Holy crap, you're right! I just went to their website and saw that they brought it back but added 'new' to the tagline. “The New Standard For The W
64 mham001 : None of which means it is is a good or poor platform. Both Mercedes I have owned had wood problems. I can do without both the real and the fake.
65 KiwiRob : Pretty obvious which looks better isn't it. If you want to use wood on a dash design it so that it can be made out of real wood not plastic.
66 Superfly : Exactly. After all, it's just the shape of piece of metal. Kind of silly even arguing about the difference between the two.
67 KiwiRob : It just means it's a very old platform.
68 Post contains images stasisLAX : From the official GM photo above, I am certain that 4 people will fit comfortably in the XTS (and their golf bags) - but three across in the rear sea
69 KiwiRob : How many large luxury sedans actually have a back seat which is designed for 3, most are contoured to fit two, with only lip-service paid to fitting a
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