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Sperm Donor.... But Don't Tell My Wife  
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8626 posts, RR: 13
Posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3176 times:
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OK, I find this very bizarre and quite disturbing.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10772398

...A conservative Christian politician has a secret life as a sperm donor for lesbian couples - even though he has campaigned against gay marriage..... American politician Bill Johnson has spent most of this year in Christchurch [ New Zealand} helping run the earthquake recovery, all the while using the online persona "chchbill" to meet women who want help to get pregnant.

Under that persona, he has discussed making donations to at least nine women without the knowledge of his family in the US. ...... Asked if his wife knew he was donating sperm, he said: "She does now."

He said she did not know of any of the pregnancies. He said he had not planned on telling her until the children were born.



I just can't get my head around this guys sense of ethics:

1/ deciding to be a sperm donor without clearing it with his wife
2/ ignoring recommended guidelines in New Zealand to donate to no more than 4 families ( to reduce chances of accidental incest in the next generation.)
3/ the hypocrisy of opposing marriage equality while in his own country, but donating sperm to lesbian couples while away from home

Imagine how some of the women he has 'helped' must feel now that the truth has come out, particularly the ones in same sex relationships. When he was discussing providing them with donations did he disclose his opposition to marriage equality?

Very disturbing.


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFly777s From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

Selective morality... Seems to be an ongoing characteristic amongst right-wing Christians... and especially those endowed with a certain level of authority.. Mind you, not all Christians are hypocrites, but it seems like the numbers are increasing..

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

The question is now, did they do artificial insemination (essentially him jerking off into a cup and the sperm being inserted into the receiving woman via a doctor or her partner) or did he do "natural insemination", essentially him sh#gging the woman (which has a higher probability of conception, but needs a really close relationship between the donor and recepient).

Jan


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8626 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2915 times:
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Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 2):
The question is now, did they do artificial insemination (essentially him jerking off into a cup and the sperm being inserted into the receiving woman via a doctor or her partner) or did he do "natural insemination", essentially him sh#gging the woman (which has a higher probability of conception, but needs a really close relationship between the donor and recepient).

Jan

Considering that at least one recipient is gay I would assume (hope) artificial insemination. Especially since he was donating to more than one woman it would be extremely disturbing if he was donating through actual intercourse.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Thread starter):

1/ deciding to be a sperm donor without clearing it with his wife

I don't see why anyone would need spousal approval for that. She's a wife, not a parole officer.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Thread starter):
2/ ignoring recommended guidelines in New Zealand to donate to no more than 4 families ( to reduce chances of accidental incest in the next generation.)

This is a good point though. Probably something the NZ authorities on the issue thought out for a reason.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Thread starter):
3/ the hypocrisy of opposing marriage equality while in his own country, but donating sperm to lesbian couples while away from home

That's just plain natural for american right wingers (though not a characteristic limited to them by any means). I can hardly be surprised by that.


User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2819 times:

I'd bet you $1,000 this instance is just the tip of the iceberg of much larger, more hypocritical, "morally debased", behavior of this dude. Just as in the case of child molesters like Sandusky (allegedly) the scandal turd-blossoms as more and more victims come forward to file charges, and overcome their feelings of shame to expose the debased animal.

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8626 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2808 times:
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Quoting wn700driver (Reply 4):
Quoting kiwiandrew (Thread starter):

1/ deciding to be a sperm donor without clearing it with his wife

I don't see why anyone would need spousal approval for that. She's a wife, not a parole officer.

You don't see any need for him to consult with his wife before fathering children with other women? Fair enough, you are entitled to your view, but personally I would have thought it was basic good manners.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 3014 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Thread starter):
1/ deciding to be a sperm donor without clearing it with his wife

Yes well, perhaps not "clearing" it, but at the very least discussing it with her.

Its a monumental decision to make.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 4):
She's a wife,

And therefore deserves the respect in being a part of this.

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 4):
I can hardly be surprised by that.

Me too, what with maniacs like Gingrich claiming that the Palestinian people are "invented" and his views on Gays, nothing should shock us anymore I suppose.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 6):
but personally I would have thought it was basic good manners.

Something that is sorely lacking in today's society's.

[Edited 2011-12-11 15:13:16]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6939 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2708 times:

Did he want to have as many children as possible ? Seed the Earth or something ?


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6939 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 4):
I don't see why anyone would need spousal approval for that. She's a wife, not a parole officer.

I don't know in this case, but in France a court recently decided that a man that donated his sperm couldn't expect anonymity (even if it was supposed to stay anonymous). Furthermore, there is nothing preventing the children to claim inheritance ! So, I'd say the wife/partner should have a say.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3156 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 3):
Considering that at least one recipient is gay I would assume (hope) artificial insemination. Especially since he was donating to more than one woman it would be extremely disturbing if he was donating through actual intercourse.

My understanding is that fertility clinics are almost all blind-blind. Donor does not know to whom (or even if) he's actually donating, and donee has the opportunity to select donor, but has no idea the actual identity.


But...

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
I don't know in this case, but in France a court recently decided that a man that donated his sperm couldn't expect anonymity (even if it was supposed to stay anonymous). Furthermore, there is nothing preventing the children to claim inheritance ! So, I'd say the wife/partner should have a say.

This is surprising to me. If it catches on, it could seriously impact the number of much-needed donors (on both sides, M or F). Many won't do it unless there IS complete anonymity. Still, always good to consult one's marriage partner.

-Rampart


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2503 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 10):
Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):
I don't know in this case, but in France a court recently decided that a man that donated his sperm couldn't expect anonymity (even if it was supposed to stay anonymous). Furthermore, there is nothing preventing the children to claim inheritance ! So, I'd say the wife/partner should have a say.

This is surprising to me. If it catches on, it could seriously impact the number of much-needed donors (on both sides, M or F). Many won't do it unless there IS complete anonymity. Still, always good to consult one's marriage partner.

-Rampart

Not just this, there has been a case a few years ago in IIRC Sweden, where a donor has been sentenced to pay child support as the biological father after the lesbian couple he donated his sperm for broke up and the mother got left by her former partner without financial support.

Jan


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8626 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2492 times:
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Quoting rampart (Reply 10):
My understanding is that fertility clinics are almost all blind-blind.

He doesn't seem to be doing it through a clinic according to the article. Furthermore, while clinics in the US might operate blind-blind you can't necessarily assume that it works the same way in other countries.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20352 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2457 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 4):

I don't see why anyone would need spousal approval for that. She's a wife, not a parole officer.

Because in any functioning marriage, you really ought to run this sort of thing past your spouse?

I say this as a happily married man. I would have no problem with my hubby donating sperm, but I'd want to know about it.


User currently offlineMoltenRock From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 4):

You've never been married have you?


User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

Quoting Fly777s (Reply 1):
Selective morality... Seems to be an ongoing characteristic amongst right-wing Christians...

Actually, selective morality is an ongoing characteristic amongst those who practice selective morality. It might even be found occurring, from time to time, amongst those who practice broad stereotyping...  
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 6):
You don't see any need for him to consult with his wife before fathering children with other women? Fair enough, you are entitled to your view, but personally I would have thought it was basic good manners.

Interesting comment. I idly wonder (and I am not taking a jab at anyone) how donating magic man-seed in any meaningful way differs from, for instance, donating blood?



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8626 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2376 times:
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Quoting sccutler (Reply 15):
Interesting comment. I idly wonder (and I am not taking a jab at anyone) how donating magic man-seed in any meaningful way differs from, for instance, donating blood?

I would have thought that his fathering children to other women might be something that his wife could be considered to have an interest in. Particularly where he is reportedly making financial commitments and reportedly wants to have a role in the children's lives. In contrast, I don't consider that blood donors tend to make much of a 'post donation' connection with their beneficiaries.

[Edited 2011-12-12 21:36:01]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinewn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 6):

You don't see any need for him to consult with his wife before fathering children with other women? Fair enough, you are entitled to your view, but personally I would have thought it was basic good manners.

I agree it would have been good manners, sure. I just don't get why anyone would think that level of disclosure is required.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):

I don't know in this case, but in France a court recently decided that a man that donated his sperm couldn't expect anonymity (even if it was supposed to stay anonymous). Furthermore, there is nothing preventing the children to claim inheritance !

I can see how this would be required WRT genetic abnormalities. Yes, I'm sure sperm-donories check for that type of thing, but nothing is bullet proof. Better safe than sorry.

Not sure how I feel about the inheritance issue though. As it would pertain to a spouse, I've always been on the side of children when it comes to estates anyway, be they acknowledged or otherwise.

Quoting MoltenRock (Reply 14):

You've never been married have you?

I've done my time.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):

Because in any functioning marriage, you really ought to run this sort of thing past your spouse?

Define functioning. Bet you can't given that that means different things for different folks. Further complicating the issue is that it means different things for different relationships. By way of example, my former spouse never met my family (who are living), and was never so much as issued a phone number or address for my place of employment. And there were and remain very good reasons for this.

My current partner, OTOH, is on a first name basis with many of my employees and frequently coordinates get-togethers with my extended family. Go figure.


User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2252 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 16):

I would have thought that his fathering children to other women might be something that his wife could be considered to have an interest in. Particularly where he is reportedly making financial commitments and reportedly wants to have a role in the children's lives. In contrast, I don't consider that blood donors tend to make much of a 'post donation' connection with their beneficiaries.

I understand what you say completely, and I am not saying you are wrong... nor am I saying you are right.

But is there not a philosophical argument available, the essence of which would be that the biological material donated, whether it be sperm or blood, is mere "stuff" until it is introduced into its recipient, whereupon it becomes an inextricable part of the recipient? Many contend that, even after the egg is fertilized, nothing of consequence has happened (at least, not until some much-later date or, perhaps, the time of birth).

Now if the donor volunteers financial support and the like, and does so from anything other than his sole and separate assets, of course his spouse has an interest.

Interesting to ponder.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlinerottenray From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 279 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Thread starter):
A conservative Christian politician has a secret life as a sperm donor


Well, at least *this one* wasn't caught tapping his foot in an airport bathroom looking to make an "anonymous" donation...



Quoting Fly777s (Reply 1):
Selective morality... Seems to be an ongoing characteristic amongst right-wing Christians...


Not just the right-wingers. Even the left-wingers try to get their asses into your bedroom to tell you how to live while doing the things they "preach" against and "pray" about.

That's a case of zealotry, nothing more, nothing less.



Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 3):
Considering that at least one recipient is gay I would assume (hope) artificial insemination


Kiwi, that's rather unlike you. Don't go all homophobe, m'kay?

Also, all things in this case make me wish this guy would go ahead and get caught "donating sperm" to a gay guy, if you catch my drift. Serve him right, it would.



Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 6):
You don't see any need for him to consult with his wife before fathering children with other women?


Ahh, I see we've reached the crux of the biscuit.

This is exactly the problem I have with it.

Not so much the progeny part, but the masturbation part. I think if you're in a serious relationship, one that hasn't been agreed upon as being "open," you should check with the other half before you go spewing seed anywhere than in the treasured bed where you both do sexual aerobics and catch ZZZs together.

Even by your own hand.

"Hon, ya mind much if I go ahead and spank the hell out of the monkey at (whatever truck stop, public park, adult bookstore, so on and so forth)?"

Really, it's just common courtesy.


The additional baggage has already been alluded to above by a few folks.

A quick Goooogling shows that birth defects related to inbreeding don't usually show up in the first generation. This is a huge problem, one I think the English folk should be familiar with regarding their royalty in days of yore. Others as well, I'm not singling out the Empire for this; it's simply an example which is easily researched.


So, there you have it. The man is a cad for not clearing this activity with his wife, although there could be mitigating circumstances.

If she's a human shrew too ugly in temperament and appearance to approach about dinner, let alone whipping off a batch for the local spunk library, then perhaps we can understand why he didn't broach the subject.

On the other hand, if she's that bad, he should just put aside his Christianity - for at least as long as it took him to go ahead and please himself during donations - and file for a divorce.


Oh, what tangled webs we... weave.

Thinking about that, I realize it's appropriate as can be. Spiders actually go through a process similar to ejaculation when "shooting" their webs.

g'Night...

Ray


User currently offlineKrisFlyerGold From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2096 times:

I got paid for my semen a few years ago. Not sure if anyone ever selected it or not, nor do I care. I just needed the money at the time, and figured blowing my load in a plastic container would be the easiest money I ever made, and it was!

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8626 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2073 times:
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Quoting rottenray (Reply 19):
Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 3):
Considering that at least one recipient is gay I would assume (hope) artificial insemination


Kiwi, that's rather unlike you. Don't go all homophobe, m'kay?

If anything I thought someone would accuse me of being heterophobic! Most of the gay women who I know would find insemination by anything other than by artificial means completely unacceptable. Some women are prepared to make tremendous sacrifices to have a child, however most of the lesbians who I am acquainted with would draw the line at having to have penetrative intercourse with a man.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20352 posts, RR: 59
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1924 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 17):
Define functioning. Bet you can't given that that means different things for different folks.

Um... I can define what isn't functioning. And one partner donating DNA to make babies without notifying the other is non-functioning in my book. A functioning relationship should be an honest one. I don't keep secrets from my husband.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6939 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (3 years 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 17):
Not sure how I feel about the inheritance issue though. As it would pertain to a spouse, I've always been on the side of children when it comes to estates anyway, be they acknowledged or otherwise.

I have to add that in France you can't disinherit a child or a spouse. You can only give a minor amount to a charity or a person that is not a family member, all the rest goes to your immediate family by law, in equal parts (less what goes to the public coffers, of course).

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 17):
Define functioning. Bet you can't given that that means different things for different folks. Further complicating the issue is that it means different things for different relationships. By way of example, my former spouse never met my family (who are living), and was never so much as issued a phone number or address for my place of employment. And there were and remain very good reasons for this.

Was that a mariage blanc ?

Quoting sccutler (Reply 18):
But is there not a philosophical argument available, the essence of which would be that the biological material donated, whether it be sperm or blood, is mere "stuff" until it is introduced into its recipient, whereupon it becomes an inextricable part of the recipient? Many contend that, even after the egg is fertilized, nothing of consequence has happened (at least, not until some much-later date or, perhaps, the time of birth).

You take the point of view of the (potential) donor, but what is increasingly taken into account is the point of view of the children conceived that way. And for whatever reason that I don't really understand, a lot of them want to know who it was who "jerked in a plastic cup" for them to be conceived.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20352 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (3 years 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1775 times:

Quoting wn700driver (Reply 17):
Further complicating the issue is that it means different things for different relationships. By way of example, my former spouse never met my family (who are living), and was never so much as issued a phone number or address for my place of employment. And there were and remain very good reasons for this.

I would point out that it was your former spouse, so I would submit that it wasn't a very functional relationship.


25 sccutler : Good observations. I absolutely, positively, do not have the answers. But it is still an interesting discussion.
26 wn700driver : What, people can't die young in your world? Or simply choose not to continue a partnership? In my case, I will never believe that my marriage was a g
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