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Russian Carrier Fleet Spotted 30 Miles Off The UK  
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2983 times:

A Russian Naval fleet which included the Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov was spotted 30 miles of the coast of Scotland on Monday, it has been 20 years since they last come this close. The Destroyer HMS York was alerted and sent to interecept the Russian fleet. Also it has now been rumoured that the carrier was fly-tipping/dumping waste of the coast of Scotland.

More info about this on the Daily Mail website:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...urity-scare.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[Edited 2011-12-14 15:03:13]


3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5509 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

Time for the Brits to send out their carriers...

...oh, sorry.

Never Mind.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5138 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2758 times:

typical Daily Mail sensationalism. They were sheltering from storms that were hitting the region - big deal. And as for the fly tipping:

Quote:

A Royal Navy spokesman added that Russia was 'almost certainly' acting in accordance with international rules.
He said: 'Russia is signed up to the International Maritime Organisation's maritime pollution rules, of which they are very strict followers. If they are doing it, it's almost certainly in accordance with the regulations and is most likely going to be low-level food waste.'

again, a non issue.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

Keep in mind the last time it happened the Soviet Union was just about to break up or had just broken up, the Cold War was still fresh as well.

The Russian Air Force fly around Scotland quite often - it's not really a big deal, just more Daily Fail bullcrap.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12510 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2661 times:
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Daily Mail?   

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 2):
They were sheltering from storms that were hitting the region - big deal.

But the truth is so much more boring and unlikely to sell newspapers (rags).



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7152 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 2):
typical Daily Mail sensationalism.
Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 3):
it's not really a big deal, just more Daily Fail bullcrap.

Question, did the Royal Navy really send a ship 1,000 miles for Daily mail bull or are you just saying the issue should not have been reported?
The news article seem to show that the politicians had more to say than any Mail editorial.

Another question, depending on weather conditions I would think it took the destroyer more than 24hours to make the transit, were there any reports in UK media during this time or were all such reports "supressed" until the destroyer actually arrived on the scene?


User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5138 posts, RR: 33
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 5):
Question, did the Royal Navy really send a ship 1,000 miles for Daily mail bull or are you just saying the issue should not have been reported?

I'm saying the daily mail sensationalised the issue:

Headline: HMS York scrambled to Scotland in security scare as Russian fleet comes within 30 miles of Britain for the first time in 20 years

All sounds rather dramatic, when in reality all that happened is a couple of Russian boats decided to shelter off the Scottish coast.

Compare that to the BBC's coverage - headline: "Russian aircraft carrier 'fly-tipping' off Moray Firth". And in mention to HMS York's presence - "Portsmouth-based Royal Navy destroyer HMS York has been shadowing the vessels.".

Not quite the rapid scrambling of HMS York to prevent a security scare, as the Daily Mail would have us believe...



That'll teach you
User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2649 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2546 times:

This nugget of info is correct however:

Previously defence chiefs would have scrambled Nimrod aircraft from RAF Kinloss in Moray but because the base has been scrapped in cutbacks and a new fleet of planes cancelled, the Navy had no choice but to send HMS York

In typical short sightedness, our politicians closed down bases and grounded perfectly serviceable aicraft before replacements were online and then cancelled orders from the replacements. This leaves our northern half completely unprotected and ill equipped for S&R Ops.

Currently, if there is an "incident" like this, or a ship in distress, they will need to wait for a Sea King or ship to turn up. anything between 8 and 24 hours. Better hope that hole in the hull is small then!



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2507 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 7):
Currently, if there is an "incident" like this, or a ship in distress, they will need to wait for a Sea King or ship to turn up. anything between 8 and 24 hours. Better hope that hole in the hull is small then!

What would a Nimrod do other then circle overhead?


User currently offlineoldtimer From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2479 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 7):
In typical short sightedness, our politicians closed down bases and grounded perfectly serviceable aicraft before replacements were online and then cancelled orders from the replacements

Those replacement planes were over budget and even later than the 787/380/350 combined and scrapping them was kinder than just throwing more money at them.



Oldtimer, I should have known better!
User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5138 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2469 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 7):
Currently, if there is an "incident" like this, or a ship in distress, they will need to wait for a Sea King or ship to turn up. anything between 8 and 24 hours. Better hope that hole in the hull is small then!

Don't worry, an Independent Scotland plans to order P-3s     

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 8):
What would a Nimrod do other then circle overhead?

And what is a single frigate going to do against 7 Russian ships? The aim of the game is to monitor, not destroy.

Quoting oldtimer (Reply 9):
Those replacement planes were over budget and even later than the 787/380/350 combined and scrapping them was kinder than just throwing more money at them.

Indeed, something many seem to forget when criticising the decision. The decision to cancel the project was the right one, the decision to order them in the first place is the decision that should be criticised.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting LGWflyer (Thread starter):
A Russian Naval fleet which included the Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov was spotted 30 miles of the coast of Scotland on Monday,

What did Gkirk do now? Isn't sheep shagging legal?



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7152 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 8):
Quoting garpd (Reply 7):
Currently, if there is an "incident" like this, or a ship in distress, they will need to wait for a Sea King or ship to turn up. anything between 8 and 24 hours. Better hope that hole in the hull is small then!


What would a Nimrod do other then circle overhead?

I believe they also had the ability to drop rafts and life jackets, depending on the sea state they would be helpful.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13195 posts, RR: 77
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2340 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 7):
In typical short sightedness, our politicians closed down bases and grounded perfectly serviceable aicraft before replacements were online and then cancelled orders from the replacements. This leaves our northern half completely unprotected and ill equipped for S&R Ops.

Currently, if there is an "incident" like this, or a ship in distress, they will need to wait for a Sea King or ship to turn up. anything between 8 and 24 hours. Better hope that hole in the hull is small then!

No doubt this lack of capability was pointed out, maybe it's just that the river Thames flowing near to Eton College gave a false impression of potential nautical disasters.

Quoting par13del (Reply 12):
I believe they also had the ability to drop rafts and life jackets, depending on the sea state they would be helpful.

Indeed, they were very important assets in dealing with sea disasters, both in dropping rescue equipment and for command and control.

But it is a typical Daily Mail scare story, it's worth remembering that 100 years ago, when Imperial Britain ruled the waves, was the 'workshop of the world', ruled a quarter of the human race, the Mail still ran stories of imminent doom, the country going to the dogs, immigration '(East London) etc.

And if that fleet did have hostile intent, that's what the RN's nuclear subs are for.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

Quoting oldtimer (Reply 9):
Those replacement planes were over budget and even later than the 787/380/350 combined and scrapping them was kinder than just throwing more money at them.

If only they had selected the P-3 Orion/CP-140 Aurora so many years ago, life would have been simplere, and the British taxpayer's burden just a little lighter. But, national pride being what it is...our Arrow is a similar testament, actually.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1217 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

You guys aren't seeing the real picture here.
The Russian fleet is using the weather as an excuse to position close to Scotland in order to support the fight for the Independence of our Scottish Brothers!  



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7152 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2275 times:

Quoting GDB (Reply 13):

And if that fleet did have hostile intent, that's what the RN's nuclear subs are for.

Ah crap, now you had to mention that, were any submarines deployable, shadowing the fleet in transit or where they on xmas break early? The sub force has had their share of "issues" let sgive them a break on this one  


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2649 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2250 times:

Quoting oldtimer (Reply 9):

Those replacement planes were over budget and even later than the 787/380/350 combined and scrapping them was kinder than just throwing more money at them.

Granted.
But grounding a servicable fleet that is highly utilised with no replacement is an incredible blunder.



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12510 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2180 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 10):
Don't worry, an Independent Scotland plans to order P-3s

And here's the first one!   

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Brimley




Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineoldtimer From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 17):
Granted.
But grounding a servicable fleet that is highly utilised with no replacement is an incredible blunder.

The old fleet was way past its sellby date and the new ones had not entered service, it was a BAe screwup on costs and a fifty year old airframe was wasting money



Oldtimer, I should have known better!
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7307 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1866 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 16):
Ah crap, now you had to mention that, were any submarines deployable, shadowing the fleet in transit or where they on xmas break early?

I think it would be a pretty safe bet that an Astute/Trafalgar has been shadowing the Russians for quite some time.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13195 posts, RR: 77
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1816 times:

Quoting par13del (Reply 16):
Ah crap, now you had to mention that, were any submarines deployable, shadowing the fleet in transit or where they on xmas break early? The sub force has had their share of "issues" let sgive them a break on this one  

The UK government has a policy of being coy about the deployment of RN subs, not just in the obvious case of the Trident boats, but also of the conventionally armed ones too.
Until they do something like fire Cruise missiles at enemy targets, (which since 1999 they have done in four separate campaigns), or to press a political/military point.
Which was done in December 1977 to forestall a potential Argentine invasion of the Falklands, which four and a half years later the successor government failed to do.
Leading to the subs being used as first a political/strategic asset to initially set up a Total Exclusion Zone around the islands as the British surface fleet approached to retake the islands, then (for the first and only time since WW2, by anyone, certainly with a nuclear powered boat) actively engage an enemy fleet. As well as Special Forces insertions. Which they no doubt also done since too, however the commentary on SF options is even more restricted.

Really, you could argue that the RN sub fleet is the most combat experienced in the world, taking all of the above.

Some navies, even some more perhaps lavishly equipped, larger, spend rather more time in port and rather less time on exercises and operations, including some from NATO nations. This has long been the case.
It's notable that almost alone in last years Defence cuts, the RN sub fleet and it's procurement program, remained untouched.

I'd say there is every likelihood that this Russian fleet has or is being shadowed by a SSN.
The RN submariners however do call themselves 'The Silent Service'.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1645 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1753 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
I think it would be a pretty safe bet that an Astute

It probably ran aground somewhere while en route to shadow the russian fleet   


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2649 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 1601 times:

Quoting oldtimer (Reply 19):

The old fleet was way past its sellby date and the new ones had not entered service, it was a BAe screwup on costs and a fifty year old airframe was wasting money

An old fleet providing a service and vital S&R cover is better than bugger all, which is what he have now. That is my point.



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14011 posts, RR: 62
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 23):
Quoting oldtimer (Reply 19):

The old fleet was way past its sellby date and the new ones had not entered service, it was a BAe screwup on costs and a fifty year old airframe was wasting money

An old fleet providing a service and vital S&R cover is better than bugger all, which is what he have now. That is my point.

The Russians always had the policy that and old tank or an old rifle was better than no tank or no rifle at all. Therefore up to a few years ago they still kept huge stockpiles of WW2 weapons, including T-34/85 tanks and PPsH submachine guns. They only sold some of the weapons to collectors a few years ago.

Jan


25 KLMA330 : Great Britain should have never let go of its aircraft carriers. What were you guys thinking? One military expense that should have been kept.
26 GDB : The fixed wing naval aviation is having a 'capability holiday', just it's rather a long one, 10 years. Compare that to the 18 months between the last
27 Post contains images Flighty : Good for Russia, it looks like their ships have been patched enough to travel hundreds of miles from base. I am inspired.
28 Post contains images tu204 : Don't worry, they can travel a thousand miles and reach a shore near you too
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