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If You Were The Captain Of The Costa Concordia?  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3627 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2354 times:

First off, I know that I am the worst, when it come down to being hard on this so call captain, but I wonder, if I was in his place, how would I have handle things differently. I could say that, "oh I would not have sailed in uncharted waters, and I would have stayed with the ship", but I was not in his shoes, so I can not really answer this question. Now how would you have handle this situation, if you was the captain of the Costa Concordia?



PS: I am still against the captain action, and I still he is a punk, but I just wonder how would I have handle that situation.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5613 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2342 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
Now how would you have handle this situation, if you was the captain of the Costa Concordia?

I would "accidentally" fall off the ship as it was listing and I was saving/helping some poor disabled child/passenger (when it was safe to do so of course), then swum to shore and suffered from amnesia. Permanent amnesia, mind you....

How's that?

Truth is there is no way to really answer this question. The captain was wrong in so many ways. Simply put the only thing someone (anyone) should have done once the accident happened, is stay and do their job and do their best to help save as many people as possible. And that is what I would like to think I would have done.

Tugg


(PS I know I am making light of a very serious situation where many people lost their live which is not a laughing matter. But as a skydiver I gained a very dark sense of humor.)

[Edited 2012-01-17 16:10:17]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2321 times:

We can all say what we think we might have done. But we have no idea how we would actually react in the heat of the moment.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2297 times:

Agreed, it's very hard to say what anyone would do... but as in most cases, people trained in certain situations are usually compelled to 'instinctively give in to training mode' thinking... usually. He, being at the helm of as many ships as he has been to be hired as cruiseship capt. was without question the 1st to know his ship was listing. Having sailed those waters as many times as he had, he also knew immediately upon impact...what had happened. Given that, he did not respond well.

BN747

[Edited 2012-01-17 16:57:28]


"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14027 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2157 times:

From experience I can say that, while I normally tend to talk too much, in real emergencies I become emotionally detached and concentrate on whatever there is to do. I also think that it the training from my time in a civil defence heavy rescue unit kicking in. I know ex soldiers, nurses or firefighters who have similar reactions.
While I haven´t been involved in a major disater, I had in the past extinguish a burning hydrogen cylinder in a university lab, extinguish a car with a carburetor fire and at one time I had to perform (unsuccessfully) CPR to a guy who collapsed with a cardiac arrest on a beach.
I know that I can stand the sight of blood and that I have some survival tricks up my sleeve from the civil defence time.

Jan

[Edited 2012-01-18 07:15:31]

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8285 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2135 times:

I'll assume that you are focused on what would we do to react to the problem, not cause it.

I see several things I would consider.

The first thing I would be doing is advising the company and any close ships of a potential problem as soon as the ship showed the first problem. I'm assuming that the company has emergency procedures & systems, including advanced engineering consultants that can be immediately available. (If not, they soon will.)

In addition, the area of the accident is pretty well traveled and there may well be other ships in the area, including cruise ships who could have provided rescue assistance. A cruise ship would have been ideal because of the number of lifeboats they would have had.

These efforts should have solid people on the bridge to support the Captain in communications and maintaining records.

If something caused the ship to list I think one of the first things to do in waters like that is to drop the lifeboats on the "high" side with an experienced 2 man to stand close by in case rescues were necessary. It is not difficult to understand that the high side boats will be lost if the ship lists beyond a certain point - no way should they be lost if there is time to drop them.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14027 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
If something caused the ship to list I think one of the first things to do in waters like that is to drop the lifeboats on the "high" side with an experienced 2 man to stand close by in case rescues were necessary. It is not difficult to understand that the high side boats will be lost if the ship lists beyond a certain point - no way should they be lost if there is time to drop them.

While the lifeboats can be launched (within limits) by gravity alone, what about the engineering staff trying to get emergency lighting going? Or has the nautical and engineering crew on these ships so much depleted due to cost cutting that there is no manpower available? Today it seems that most personnel on cruise ships are passenger related staff and not enough trained seamen and engineers available.

Jan


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
we have no idea how we would actually react in the heat of the moment.

This is so true! When I was managing a Taco Bell, they told us about fire safety and evacuations and such. I never thought it would happen. One night, the HVAC people came, but no one told us. Smoke came pouring through the vents. Three workers ran but I and another manager stayed to find the source of the smoke and call 911. I was terrified, but, knowing those I am responsible for were able to get out made everything easier.

The captain was an idiot for piloting the ship so close to shore. He is responsible for 4000+ souls. If it were just him, I would say he is a idiot anyway, but the story would end there. But, since he is in charge and responsible for others, he needs to be punished!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5613 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2025 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 1):
I would "accidentally" fall off the ship as it was listing and I was saving/helping some poor disabled child/passenger (when it was safe to do so of course), then swum to shore and suffered from amnesia. Permanent amnesia, mind you....

OK..... In a strange twist, the captain is now saying something oddly similar to my jest:

Quote:
Captain Francesco Schettino said it was an accident that he left the Costa Concordia, according to Italian press reports.

"The passengers were pouring on to the decks, taking the lifeboats by assault," he was quoted as telling a judge during a hearing to determine whether he should be held in custody on charges of manslaughter and abandoning ship.

"I was trying to get people to get into the boats in an orderly fashion. Suddenly, since the ship was at a 60-70 degree angle, I tripped and I ended up in one of the boats. That's how I found myself in the lifeboat," Schettino said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...ordia-captain-stricken-cruise-ship

He forgot the amnesia though....

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineStarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2021 times:

I can honestly say after being in the Navy for 20 years on 5 different aircraft carriers, that I would have stayed with the ship and helped everyone that needed help to get off of the ship. We in the Navy are trained to do this and as a Ships Captain, he of all people on board should have been trained to do this and his leaving the ship is deplorable, aside from the fact that he did not follow the course to avoid the rocks and shallows that he knew were there just to show off to the people on the shore.

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1998 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 1):
I would "accidentally" fall off the ship as it was listing and I was saving/helping some poor disabled child/passenger (when it was safe to do so of course), then swum to shore and suffered from amnesia. Permanent amnesia, mind you....

How's that?

ROTFL the captain claims that's sort of what happened! (minus the amnesia)

Cruise Captain Says He 'Tripped' Into Lifeboat, Couldn't Get Out

Quote:
"I was helping some passengers put the life boat to sea. At a certain point the mechanism for lowering it, blocked. We had to force it. Suddenly the system unblocked itself and I tripped and I found myself inside the life boat with a number of passengers."

Once in the lifeboat that was lowered into the sea, Schettino insisted to the court that it was "impossible to go back onboard."


User currently offline747srule From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1972 times:

He is now being called "Chicken of the Sea." Anyway, the only boat he will be captain of is the one in his bathtub!!


Jesus is the way,the truth,and the life
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14027 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1960 times:

Quoting 747srule (Reply 11):
He is now being called "Chicken of the Sea." Anyway, the only boat he will be captain of is the one in his bathtub!!

His own bathtub? He´ll be picking up the soap for the Italian version of "Bubba" in the prison shower room!

Jan


User currently offlineBluebird191 From UK - Wales, joined Apr 2011, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1946 times:

I myself have my boat licence here in Australia, and often get out on the water in a boat. If you are in charge of the vessel, whether it be known as the captain or otherwise, if you are in charge, it is basic seamanship to stay on the vessel and coordinate th evac until everyone is off and accounted for. And when I say basic seamanship, I mean it is so basic that even a clumsy captain like Schettini shouldnt have an issue with it.

Which also begs the question - if Schettini was so clumsy and "accodentally tripped and fell into a life raft", how was he talking to the coast service at the same time? And being so clumsy, why was he allowed control and captaincy of such a large vessel?


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1942 times:

Honestly, if I were the Captain I don't know what I'd do. Thank God I've never been in a situation and hope never to be. So, to tell you yes or no would be like trying to fly a 747 blindfolded. But, as captain you know, I'd be scoring with all the hot chicks on board if it were smooth sailing and make sure my crew knows, that I'm performing special duties and to steer clear of icebergs, big ass rocks and little islands.

On a serious note my heart goes out to all the pax and crew on board.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinenjxc500 From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1930 times:

Even if things were really going south, I would think that I could find a way to make sure the evacuation was happening properly. The captain abandoning ship should resonate very deep with this board. Imagine the captain of an aircraft jumping out ahead of passengers after a crash. Sully stayed til the end.

I would like to hear the full conversation between the captain and the Coast Guard. There are now t-shirts for the famous saying.



Tragic event. A couple from my area is missing, prayers for the families.

[Edited 2012-01-18 15:30:30]

User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6218 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 1914 times:
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I wanted to refrain from entering this thread just yet. Everything seems to indicate that the Captain not only was an incompetent ass, but also has a high disregard for human life, at least for someone in his profession. But, is it really so?

I assume all his peers know what happened to that other Greek incompetent who left the sinking ship in the Aegean with other high ranking crew, again, leaving thousands behind.

So how is it this Schettino just up and left, leaving thousands behind, again?

There is also the issue of the company having to find a good scapegoat, that also has to be considered.

Maybe things are just as they are, but it just seems so easy to blame this Big Bad Captain that for the time being, I´ll reserve my judgement until a few more days have passed and there is more info.

[Edited 2012-01-18 15:46:47]

User currently offlinedarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1365 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

AR385,

Very intelligent post. Not just saying that because I agree either, lol. Seriously though, you put that into words better than I would have. These posts may all be quite correct, but I do not see how anyone in an armchair position can accurately know what they would do, for better or worse.

My opinion is who cares what the company has to say. It's a given that they have an awful lot of liability here, whatever happens, so it is impossible to take their side as unbiased in any way. I would be more interested in what the Italian Coast Guard has to say about it.

Time will tell. And as to the ridiculous question that this thread started with, I don't know what I'd do, since I'm not a cruise ship captain. I'd like to say something self-aggrandizing/serving about how I wouldn't leave, etc etc... But the truth is that it's impossible for any of us to know until we're there. Which we were not. When, for example, would any one of us call it a day and stop searching compartments. Those ships are huge in the sense that they have an awful lot of spaces for PAX to get lost in. Anyway, we weren't there so we don't know what we'd do. Bad question, 747400sp.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1806 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
Now how would you have handle this situation, if you was the captain of the Costa Concordia?

Firstly follow the SOP/Rules.
In case of a tragedy,ensure responsibility for the crew & pax......Be the last living person out.......



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10899 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

My answer is very simple. Never would I put my passengers's lifes at rirk for any reason what so ever.

This accident should not have happened. For being familiar with that area and other spots around the Italian coast, the human error looks really obvious.

A tragedy that could have been avoided.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14027 posts, RR: 62
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1789 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 18):
Be the last living person out.......

I would say the last reasonable living person out. Nobody will demand of the captain to skinny dip into a dark, flooded engine room to check if there still might be survivors in some air bubbles.
He should also be able to give the coast guard the number of the passengers and crew aboard before the accident and a reasonable estimate of how many got off the ship.
Since he knows the ship better than the coast guard, he should cooperate with them to show the coast guard where possible survivors might be trapped in the ship, so that the coast guard and navy divers will know where to look for survivors.

Just f#cking off is a disgrace.

Jan


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8285 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
what about the engineering staff trying to get emergency lighting going?

If an inexpensive emergency lighting system can work in an office or school without human support it should be able to on a ship. The engineering staff could be focused on back-up electrical systems, but the lighting should be automatic.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 6):
Today it seems that most personnel on cruise ships are passenger related staff and not enough trained seamen and engineers available.

I think it might be the changes brought by tech advances. I saw the bridge during a cruise on the Mariner of the Seas and only one person was needed - computers handled the rest. It was an interesting comparison to the bridge of a Navy ship in the 60s, but i missed seeing the multiple people on a bridge watching things and backing up others. Maybe there was a second person who was making a head call, but one person in a very comfortable chair is a concern after this accident.

While there may have been major reductions in trained engineers and seamen it is possible to cross train other employees for tasks like driving the lifeboats. That opens up the core people to continue working, especially if there is 2 or 3 times the number cross trained as needed.

To be blunt, our waiter last September was easily bright enough to be cross trained in a couple of other areas, especially in the areas of emergency procedures.

Quoting Bluebird191 (Reply 13):
And when I say basic seamanship, I mean it is so basic that even a clumsy captain like Schettini shouldnt have an issue with it.

Don't know if the Captain was clumsy, but I have no doubts that he panicked and his fear was too great to "return" to the ship. That dud will never live down the name Chicken of the Seas.


User currently offlinelmml 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1708 times:

Will you all please stop speculating? You are simply playing in the hands of the media. The only difference is that the media is making all the money and you are not.

What Costa has done smacks of what Air New Zealand did in the Erebus accident. Blame the Captain because he is the easiest person to blame. WE DO NOT HAVE THE FACTS.

Concordia did exactly the same route, via Giglio, last August, even routing closer to the island..! This was probably even sanctioned by the company.

http://www.lloydslist.com/ll/sector/ship-operations/article389069.ece

Below is what a crew member had to say. This is in Italian. Basically this crew member is saying SHE WAS THERE, evacuated with the last boat while the Captain was still on the ship...! So there you have it. Who do you believe now?

http://www.nocensura.com/2012/01/la-...timonianza-di-katia-keyvanian.html


User currently offlineredflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4334 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1695 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 16):
but it just seems so easy to blame this Big Bad Captain that for the time being
Quoting lmml 14/32 (Reply 22):
What Costa has done smacks of what Air New Zealand did in the Erebus accident. Blame the Captain because he is the easiest person to blame. WE DO NOT HAVE THE FACTS.

While I would in general agree that we can't pass judgment on an issue until all the facts are known, we can pass judgment on the fact that this guy committed a huge and unforgivable mistake by leaving his ship when passengers were still on board. That is a fact as evidenced by the audio recording between him and the Italian CG. He acknowledged having abandoned his command and he acted in a cowardly manner by refusing to go back aboard and help with the evacuation. That is a fact. And there is nothing that would mitigate this, unless of course one were to believe his story that he tripped and fell into a lifeboat.

What we can't pass judgment on is how/why the ship ran aground. This is where I would withhold judgment until all the facts are known. We don't even know if he was on the bridge when the ship hit the rocks or, even if he was, what transpired to make the ship deviate from its path. For all we know, he may have had the ship deviate from its intended course to get closer to the island, but the helmsman may have steered the ship too close by accident and the captain may have been trying to get the ship out of harm's way when it ran aground.

There is absolutely no reason for him to have been in a lifeboat trying to get away when passengers that he was responsible for were still on board trying to evacuate.



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlinejohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

Quoting lmml 14/32 (Reply 22):
Below is what a crew member had to say. This is in Italian. Basically this crew member is saying SHE WAS THERE, evacuated with the last boat while the Captain was still on the ship...! So there you have it. Who do you believe now?

I believe the Italian Coast Guard.


25 Post contains links flyingturtle : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX_08zcCmx8&feature=related Here's the conversation between "Capt." Schettino and the Italian Coast Guard.
26 Post contains images Revelation : Personally, I would have gotten one of the crew to get the phone number of the "mystery girl" from Maldova: instead of ordering dinner with her after
27 steeler83 : If I were captain, um... we'd have 11 fewer deaths, no injuries, and nobody missing! I wouldn't have taken us that close to the island to begin with!
28 Post contains links and images flyingturtle : No, it isn't. It's "only" code of honor to be the last to leave the ship when you're captain. But this has a tremendous effect on the passengers and
29 MD11Engineer : If there is a risk or exceptional responsibility, the highest ranking has to take it. He can´t delegate it to his subordinates. When I was an appren
30 Revelation : Given that the company picked the captain, is there any law that can hold the company accountable for not giving the captain tests to verify his abil
31 swissy : Way to many people loose their cool while under extreme pressure....you can live like that without you even knowing it and if you are not exposed to
32 geezer : Here's my big problem; above is a quote from the Captain himself; in this quote, he says he tripped; with nothing more to go on, I would be inclined
33 Post contains images flyingturtle : Well, if I were the captain of the Costa Concordia... ...I'd keep clear of any rocks and islands and have a pompous arrival at the destination. Just t
34 Revelation : I think it's a lame excuse because its clear that the Captain is responsible for the whole ship and not for getting people into boats in an orderly f
35 TCASAlert : The ironic thing is, had Captain Dipshit remained onboard to co-ordinate the rescue instead of cowardly scooting off before he could get caught, he wo
36 HAWK21M : It would be faster if the regulars had done it with the Mgmt supervising In my opinion,as they would be familiar with the equipment & save time.
37 MD11Engineer : Sure, but the management could not have ordered any of the subordinates into a burning building. So they decided to carry the risk themselves. Of cou
38 garpd : Most of us realy do not know how we will react in an emergency situation. Some of will elect flight, some of us will elect fight the rest will freeze.
39 Post contains links AR385 : I think the mistery is solved. According to this article (sorry, in Spanish only) http://internacional.elpais.com/inte.../actualidad/1327479093_54875
40 garpd : Absolutely spot on. I'm not excusing Schettino. Not for one instance. What I find amusing is the people here confidently asserting they would do it d
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