"Arizona is my home, always will be. A lot has happened over the past year. We cannot change that. But I know on the issues we fought for we can change things for the better. Jobs, border security, veterans. We can do so much more by working together. I don't remember much from that horrible day, but I will never forget the trust you placed in me to be your voice. Thank you for your prayers and for giving me time to recover. I have more work to do on my recovery so to do what is best for Arizona I will step down this week. I'm getting better. Every day, my spirit is high. I will return and we will work together for Arizona and this great country. Thank you very much."
Seems like she waited about a year too long to resign. If over a year into her two year term, she is unable to continue, she was certainly unable to continue when it happened.
Stabilator From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1423 times:
Quoting D L X (Thread starter): Seems like she waited about a year too long to resign. If over a year into her two year term, she is unable to continue, she was certainly unable to continue when it happened.
I agree with you there. I wouldn't want to be the one to tell her to resign though, many people would think it's too politically incorrect.
I hope she finds something enjoyable to do now. Such an awful thing to happen to someone.
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6127 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1391 times:
Personally I believe that she is a year too soon. Reality is that she can show up to vote if it is critical, but with the TP running the GOP in the House there is no reason for someone not on the too far right to slow up for every Cantor Event.
There is also a need for standards to be set for elected officials who are attacked because they are a Member of Congress. It is our responsibility as a Nation, IMO.
As for Giffords, I can only wish the best for the Lady. Her attacks, at the shooting and after, are pathetic.
JetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1526 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1388 times:
I am a bit surprised by the timing, but it would be good for her to focus on her recovery full time. I would not be surprised if she continues to make good strides over the next year or two to think about running again
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10022 posts, RR: 54 Reply 4, posted (4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1378 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2): Personally I believe that she is a year too soon. Reality is that she can show up to vote if it is critical, but with the TP running the GOP in the House there is no reason for someone not on the too far right to slow up for every Cantor Event.
If she's nothing but a warm body that will simply check "D" on her votes, she is not fit to serve. Terrible tragedy, absolutely. But that does not mean she should stay.
Looking at this completely apolitically, she had no business staying on the job when she clearly could not perform it.
propilot83 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 512 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1320 times:
May Allah (God) bless her and give her glad tidings of peace, I know how hard it could be on someone recovering from a terrible tragedy, if I were in her shoes I would most likely resign too. She did the right thing and made her best choice for herself and family. What a kind, loving, sweetheart-ed person she really is! I wish her the best.
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8202 posts, RR: 48 Reply 6, posted (4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1316 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2): There is also a need for standards to be set for elected officials who are attacked because they are a Member of Congress. It is our responsibility as a Nation, IMO.
You want to force/bully her into sacrificing her health, maybe even her life?
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 11686 posts, RR: 8 Reply 7, posted (4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1309 times:
It is unfortunate that Ms. Giffords cannot properly represent her district due to her current disability and need to give full attention to her recovery. She is doing the right thing and not letting party politics keep her in office and deny her district has a person in office.
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6127 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1273 times:
Quoting D L X (Reply 4): If she's nothing but a warm body that will simply check "D" on her votes, she is not fit to serve.
As opposed to some of the raw meat eaters who simply check "TP" on their votes? I consider Giffords as far more fit to serve than them.
Quoting D L X (Reply 4): But that does not mean she should stay.
Quoting D L X (Reply 4): she had no business staying on the job when she clearly could not perform it.
Just because she is having problem with some gross and fine motor skills does not mean she xis brain dead and cannot give reasonable thought to an issue. We do, in this country, have a ten dance to look at the physical person and automatically assign a mental status. Stephen Hawking ring a bell?
Would be you be so eager to see the back of her if she was active in the Tea Party?
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 6): You want to force/bully her into sacrificing her health, maybe even her life?
No. You'll never see me arguing against the government money spent rehabbing a sitting Member of Congress after an assignation attempt. Nor will you see me trying to push him or her out of office after an assignation attempt. (And you won't see me arguing to cur funds for the VA because the "Job Creators" ( ) want another tax cut.
Giffords rehab these days is focused on speech and gross/fine motor work. She can still evaluate and can still come to her own opinions. Better than the Speaker who has to change course every time the TP members break wind.
PC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2053 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1254 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8): Just because she is having problem with some gross and fine motor skills does not mean she xis brain dead and cannot give reasonable thought to an issue.
I personally believe most incumbents are brain dead and they haven't gone through what Gabby has by any means.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
BN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5007 posts, RR: 55 Reply 10, posted (4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1237 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8): Quoting D L X (Reply 4):
she had no business staying on the job when she clearly could not perform it.
Just because she is having problem with some gross and fine motor skills does not mean she xis brain dead and cannot give reasonable thought to an issue. We do, in this country, have a ten dance to look at the physical person and automatically assign a mental status. Stephen Hawking ring a bell?
Agreed, it's bad precedent to play out infront of certain members who can be heartless enough as it is.
Let some degree of humanity be maintained in that cesspool known as Congress.
After a horrific situation like what she went thu.. the attitude of "Ok, sorry that happened, but let's get a new body in here'
is an appalling one.
It's bad enough that large portions of Congress are willing to turn their backs on the struggling unemployed, slash benefits for those who need it most and can least afford it. Introducing a new attitude of 'you've been shot, we feel bad, but you're useless...' is a freeway to becoming less humane by a group who already are near that circle of thought (as long as they're livelyhoods remain intact).
Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 9): I personally believe most incumbents are brain dead and they haven't gone through what Gabby has by any means.
Exactly, give these knuckleheads the greenlight to be even more heartless...we've seen how nutty some politicians get...keep them from adopting an additional cruel streak to use when they see fit.
I personally think her evaluation period was fair and just ...and apparenty so do the people of her district.
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 23091 posts, RR: 60 Reply 11, posted (4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1188 times:
They have been playing her video on Sky News this evening. Brave women and I wish her well . She is better off out of the circus that is American politics anyway
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 11547 posts, RR: 27 Reply 12, posted (4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1131 times:
Quoting BN747 (Reply 10): the attitude of "Ok, sorry that happened, but let's get a new body in here'
is an appalling one.
That's the necessary attitude when it comes to officials. Next man up. There are tons of procedures and safeguards in place to follow through on exactly that notion: the government and any position in it is bigger than any person.
Far from being appalling, that idea is why the government works.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
BN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5007 posts, RR: 55 Reply 13, posted (4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1116 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12): Quoting BN747 (Reply 10):
the attitude of "Ok, sorry that happened, but let's get a new body in here'
is an appalling one.
That's the necessary attitude when it comes to officials. Next man up. There are tons of procedures and safeguards in place to follow through on exactly that notion: the government and any position in it is bigger than any person.
Far from being appalling, that idea is why the government works.
The Presidency, the vice Presidency..yes.
The US Congress has demonstrated with 100s of members being ill, incapacitated for extended periods of time..I see no need to change it. To adopt that attitude .. could open the door for anything to happen. If Congress worked doggedly every working day in the same ultra hurried attitude they exemplified when prosecuted Bill Clinton? Oh hell yes,
I'd be all for it
- BUT they don't. They are slower than that old woman who always seem to be at the crosswalk at the moment when you're in the biggest hurry. They deserve no such expediency for them to play their silly numbers game. Plus the people should decide that (replacement pace)..not those bums. They do nothing but measure the sand in their re-election hour glass.
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6127 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1048 times:
Two interesting paragraphs from the WaPo today:
Quote:
Before handing in her resignation to House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) and Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer (R), Giffords has some unfinished business. She plans to attend President Obama’s State of the Union address on Tuesday. And she will finish the meeting that was “interrupted,” her staff said in a statement, by gathering with some of the survivors at a private event in Tucson.
and
Quote:
Before the shooting, Giffords had been a rising star in the Democratic Party, a centrist politician and talented communicator who championed stronger border security, veterans’ rights and solar energy. In its aftermath, she became a national symbol for the effort to restore civility to American politics, following a brutal 2010 midterm election in which even Giffords’s race turned into a bitter battle.
Lawmakers set aside their partisan divisions to sit together for last year’s State of the Union address — before the legislature dissolved again into gridlock over the budget.
A centrist - looks like prime target to the right wing nuts. Good communicator? Bullet took care of that or a while, but not forever.
Believes in border security.
And taking care of Veterans. Maybe she has some insight being married to a Naval officer, but it is nice to see.
And now she has become "a national symbol for the effort to restore civility to American politics". appearing to be alone when standing in a room overcrowded with Tea Party. First the TPers need to understand what "civility" really is.
BN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5007 posts, RR: 55 Reply 15, posted (4 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 945 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14): First the TPers need to understand what "civility" really is.
And that can not happen when adopting an attitude of 'oops injured man/woman ..toss 'em out ' launching the free-for-all fight to get their replacement in.
The grace and respect over the period of her recovery is IMHO.. the most civil respectful method to handling these matters. That place is a mad house as it is, I for one am frankly impressed that nearly all of them (Congress) maintained their manners.
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10022 posts, RR: 54 Reply 16, posted (4 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 940 times:
Quoting BN747 (Reply 15): Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
First the TPers need to understand what "civility" really is.
And that can not happen when adopting an attitude of 'oops injured man/woman ..toss 'em out ' launching the free-for-all fight to get their replacement in.
Where do you and Ken777 draw your line? Surely, if she were in a coma all this time, would you agree that she should have stepped down a year ago?
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6127 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (4 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 935 times:
Quoting D L X (Reply 16): Surely, if she were in a coma all this time, would you agree that she should have stepped down a year ago?
She wasn't in a comma.
Her challenge these days isn't being able to understand the issues that the nation needs to address. It is the need for ongoing rehab, including Speech therapy, which is why she is resigning.
Be know well that I and others believe that it is HER decision to make. Just like Mark Kirk, a Republican Senator, has the right to determine if he can continue at his pace, or if he needs to leave office in order to focus on rehab. Until he makes that decision he can continue in office, especially if he can vote - and understand that vote.
Reality is that Gifford can have regained ALL her reasoning abilities and mental capacity without having fully re-established all the links for speech and movement - both gross & fine motor. I watched a news story the other day (after the announcement) where doctors talk about major improvements in her ability to speak. The one year mark is important (and probable the one she personally was looking at), but there can well be major improvements in each of the upcoming years.
We may well see a time when Giffords returns to the political stage with the same vigor as she had before the assignation attempt.
Easy dude, I'm just asking the question to see where you stand. I know she is not in a coma. But what if she were? Where do you stand then?
I'm trying to find out how much of a brain disability one would have to have before you said she should resign.
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17): Her challenge these days isn't being able to understand the issues that the nation needs to address.
Do you have inside information that we do not have?
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17): Be know well that I and others believe that it is HER decision to make.
I disagree. It is her constituency's decision. And apparently, as much as they like her, they decided that she should not seek reelection. This could have something to do with her decision to resign.
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17): Reality is that Gifford can have regained ALL her reasoning abilities and mental capacity without having fully re-established all the links for speech and movement - both gross & fine motor. I watched a news story the other day (after the announcement) where doctors talk about major improvements in her ability to speak. The one year mark is important (and probable the one she personally was looking at), but there can well be major improvements in each of the upcoming years.
My understanding of brain injuries (having dealt with my grandmother's brain injury from a stroke) is that you reach a plateau after 6 months. Before 6 months, improvement can be dramatic. After 6 months, and there is little hope for any further significant improvement.
It would be fantastic if your thinking was right and my thinking is wrong.
BN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5007 posts, RR: 55 Reply 19, posted (4 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 917 times:
Quoting D L X (Reply 16): Quoting BN747 (Reply 15):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
First the TPers need to understand what "civility" really is.
And that can not happen when adopting an attitude of 'oops injured man/woman ..toss 'em out ' launching the free-for-all fight to get their replacement in.
Where do you and Ken777 draw your line? Surely, if she were in a coma all this time, would you agree that she should have stepped down a yea
A coma, I can see..but even in that coma give her the time as you would 'a pregnant woman time off work'..if it's the type coma that people emerge from with much of their abilities intact.
As it is, here rehabilation time has been a reasonable period in which some determination is made.
With our Congress being one that drags iit's ass on EVERYTHING, except when they are drawing battle lines to blast each other..they are the least efficient entity on earth. They don't deserve swift replacement in these cases, their worth attitude does not demand it. Where they buzzing like a underground chinese DVD pirating operation or Nigerian email scammers..then I'd say yes.. keep it movin'. But they aren't. They light years from that work pace..as log as they drag ass, allow a recovering member - Repub or Dem or whomever, allow them the necessary time to recover - no rush needed.
Many have fought hard to gain their office titles, if they are injured allow them the same respect.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 18936 posts, RR: 52 Reply 20, posted (4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 876 times:
Bottom line is the good citizenry of her district have been left without a representative all this time.
While likely her single vote would not make or break any thing over the last year, her continued absence and inability to fully serve her constituents is the bigger issue here imo.
The folks deserve to have an active representative and she was clearly not that person now nor likely into the future.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8202 posts, RR: 48 Reply 21, posted (4 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 841 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 8): No. You'll never see me arguing against the government money spent rehabbing a sitting Member of Congress after an assignation attempt. Nor will you see me trying to push him or her out of office after an assignation attempt. (And you won't see me arguing to cur funds for the VA because the "Job Creators" ( ) want another tax cut.
That's not at all what you were talking about in the post I was replying to, and you know that.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6127 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (4 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 839 times:
Quoting D L X (Reply 18): I know she is not in a coma. But what if she were? Where do you stand then?
I'd give her time if she is in a coma. We have the technology to determine if a patient is brain dead and
Quoting D L X (Reply 18): Do you have inside information that we do not have?
Nope, just going on reports on what Doctors are saying.
Quoting D L X (Reply 18): I disagree. It is her constituency's decision
Every two years. Until the next election it is the Representative's (or Senator's) decision.
Quoting D L X (Reply 18):
My understanding of brain injuries (having dealt with my grandmother's brain injury from a stroke) is that you reach a plateau after 6 months.
It appears that the gunshot trauma was different than a stroke. The GOP Senator had a stroke yesterday and he may fall under that guideline.
Quoting D L X (Reply 18): It would be fantastic if your thinking was right and my thinking is wrong.
It's not my thinking, it was a new report on TV, reporting what doctors say in regards to her speech rehab. I wouldn't be surprised if the other physical damage is a tougher road. The gross motor losses in the arm and leg appear (to me) to be like a stroke victim.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20): Bottom line is the good citizenry of her district have been left without a representative all this time.
Not totally. They still have the staff, and it is the staff that handles most of the day to day work. If there had been a need for her vote she could have been there after the initial period. Just like she will be at the State of the Nation Address tonight, as one of her last official acts before resigning.
And, BTW, she did take a bullet in her service to the good citizenry of her district.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20): her continued absence and inability to fully serve her constituents is the bigger issue here imo.
I've been well served by my local Representative - even before and during his time at the Betty Ford Clinic.
The secret is that he has good Staff and they do the job of service constituents. They were the ones I went to in his office and they were the ones that took care of my situation.
And, yes, he is the only Republican I vote for in these days of the TP.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20): The folks deserve to have an active representative
The folks deserve to have an active and effective staff in addressing their needs. Might be for information. contact with a government office, helping with a complaint, etc. They are the first line of contact for many in the District.
BTW, civility in politics dictates that others in office join in to pick up some of the slack during recovery periods. For example, the GOP Senator from IL had a stroke yesterday. The Democrat Senator from IL called the GOP Senator's office, wishing him well, and indicating that he and his office were ready to help, including taking care of his Senate Duties.
Considering that Giffords was shot in the line of duty one would hope that there would be sufficient civility in the House for the same - providing the District's constituents with excellent service.
slider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6219 posts, RR: 42 Reply 23, posted (4 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 826 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17): Be know well that I and others believe that it is HER decision to make.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20): Bottom line is the good citizenry of her district have been left without a representative all this time.
LAX nailed it, but if she cannot fulfill the duties of her office for a period of several months, she ought to have resigned.
And if anything, the ancient cadavers and meat puppets that occupy both Houses are just more validation for much-needed term limits. It was shameful they way Strom Thurmond, Robert Byrd and others played this shameful charade when they were barely coherent.
I also think that any Fedearl office holder that chooses to run for another office ought to be compelled to resign their seat.
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6127 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (4 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 815 times:
Quoting slider (Reply 23):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
Be know well that I and others believe that it is HER decision to make.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
Bottom line is the good citizenry of her district have been left without a representative all this time.
LAX nailed it,
I'll stand by my comments on the good citizenry of her district. Citizens who have worked with Congressional Offices understand the work is done by staff.
Quoting slider (Reply 23): but if she cannot fulfill the duties of her office for a period of several months, she ought to have resigned
So how long do you let them rehab first? There is a GOP Senator from IL who would probably be interested in your opinion.
And does it matter if they were attacked in the line of duty?
Quoting slider (Reply 23): I also think that any Federal office holder that chooses to run for another office ought to be compelled to resign their seat.
What about those, like Gov Perry, who ran - for a while?
Of course, that might be a good way for the GOP to rid themselves of Ron Paul.
25 LAXintl: Personally I'd give someone no more than a few weeks. If they are incapacitated or absent and unable to competently carry out their sworn responsibil
26 D L X: The "work" is votes. Votes are done by elected Members. Anything else is unconstitutional. Giffords as a congresswoman has a two year term. She has n
27 1stfl94: I wish her all the best in her recovery. Not many people would be able to carry out their work after such an experience and she has done her constitue
28 slider: I didn't stutter. ALL office holders who run for another office should relinquish their seat. And the reasons for one's incapcity are irrelevant; if
29 Ken777: So we need to have a certain GOP Senator to resign by Feb 15th or so? No doubt in my mind that Gabby can raise her hand (but only one) or press a but
30 D L X: Again, how do you know that? I mean, how do you even know she can count to 5? Who is going to take care of Giffords is completely irrelevant to the q
31 redflyer: I agree, she waited a year too long and used the time to garner sympathy during her public appearances. There should be a law that states if a repres
32 D L X: Actually, that's an interesting angle that I probably should have thought of earlier. What if (god forbid) it wasn't a congressman or a senator, but
33 redflyer: I think Section 4 of the 15th Amendment addresses your point: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the exec
34 Ken777: Wasn't that the reason why the GOP kept a 90 year old guy in office until he hit 100? I think they added a taxidermist to his Staff to keep him going
35 redflyer: Holy Mother of God! We are not talking about an ability to raise one's hand or swing any other limb or body part. We are talking about someone who ha
36 bjorn14: As usual follow the money. She served 5 years the day before she resigned which qualified her for a Congressional pension. But staff members don't vo
37 D L X: I have no idea why that is relevant, and I hope you're not accusing me of being a hypocrite. Has CNN reported that she has no loss of reasoning abili
38 Aesma: So, you have a backup for the president, but no backup for the others ? Here, it's the opposite. If the president dies or resigns, there is no replace
39 bjorn14: Me too. She would have gotten it anyway if she had finished this term under normal circumstances. or gets expelled.
40 Ken777: How much "Brain Damage"? Enough to make her want to join the TP? We obviously do not have an intelligence test for Senators and Congressmen & Wom
41 D L X: Again, that is irrelevant. I've never suggested, nor would I, that Strom should have been in office as late as he was. I hold all elected officials t
42 Ken777: It was the decision of the voters who sent him back even if he was past the ability to function normally. Simply proves that those who cannot functio
43 redflyer: You would be far more persuasive in your arguments if you stuck with the facts in lieu of slinging rhetorical mud. Sen. Thurmond was a prime example
44 D L X: Still don't know how that's relevant. I'm actually quite certain that Gifford's brain injury was significantly worse than my loved one. A stroke or a
45 Ken777: We simply cannot compare her damage to a stroke patient. A stroke might be minor (like the GOP Senators appears to be) or it can be massive - far wor
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