aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 7588 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (4 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1740 times:
Quoting sw733 (Reply 7): Seems to me they just stole this idea from James May.
...and what a terrible copy it is! His looked better, it was more interesting and certainly a greater pleasure to drive.
Quoting mham001 (Reply 8): That's ok, the Germans are finally onboard the hybrid train. Expect good things to happen in the segment.
Diesel is a much more popular way to save fuel (and money at the time of purchase) in Europe, which is why small hybrids haven't caught on here. There is the odd E-class customer who wants to show some good will, but wouldn't be caught dead in a Diesel... and that's it, essentially.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
mham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2557 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (4 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1712 times:
Quoting aloges (Reply 11): Diesel is a much more popular way to save fuel (and money at the time of purchase) in Europe, which is why small hybrids haven't caught on here. There is the odd E-class customer who wants to show some good will, but wouldn't be caught dead in a Diesel... and that's it, essentially.
When they figure out they can fuel most of their driving by plugging into those bright shiny solar panels your government just paid for, even the staunchest dieselhead will see the light.
When they come out with diesel hybrids, what will a good dieselhead do?
af773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2505 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (4 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1673 times:
I realize this isn't a Toyota conversion, though I do think Toyota should make a Prius MPV, bigger than the Prius V and smaller than the Sienna. But I wouldn't buy it cause I have a distaste for Toyotas.
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6127 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1598 times:
That is more than a bit ugly. Looks like a poor little Prius grew a goiter.
It would seem that Toyota could develop a small van type wagon and use a lot of the Prius technology. More like a Mazda5 than the abortion they delivered.
seb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 8614 posts, RR: 19 Reply 18, posted (4 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1530 times:
Quoting aloges (Reply 11): Diesel is a much more popular way to save fuel (and money at the time of purchase) in Europe, which is why small hybrids haven't caught on here.
Could there be diesel electric hybrids? Like a Prius (not the gawd-awful one shown by the OP) but with a diesel engine instead?
Couldn't the designers think of a way to make the camper actually look... good... on the Prius? I like the concept but it looks just awful.
Wheel of morality turn, turn, turn. Tell us the lesson that we should learn
swissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1711 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (4 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1503 times:
Quoting seb146 (Reply 18): Could there be diesel electric hybrids? Like a Prius (not the gawd-awful one shown by the OP) but with a diesel engine instead?
Ahh... no because no one likes diesel joke aside.... would like to see numbers from a diesel electric...
GrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2235 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (4 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1448 times:
Quoting seb146 (Reply 18): Could there be diesel electric hybrids? Like a Prius (not the gawd-awful one shown by the OP) but with a diesel engine instead?
It exists already. Peugeot already put one on the market:
seb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 8614 posts, RR: 19 Reply 26, posted (4 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1341 times:
Quoting Flight152 (Reply 19): Don't you drive an equally god awful PT cruiser?
I have a PT, but I have chosen not to add a phallus to it. That would make my PT look as bad as this Prius. Since it is standard PT look, it is AWESOME!!
Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 25): There are already several models by Peugeot and Citroen, which are btw. much better looking than the Prius.
They do look pretty good! I am just wondering why the diesel-electric hybrid is not widly available? With some diesel engines being able to take cooking oil, it would be a great alternate to petrolium and the price at the pump should be more stable, right?
Wheel of morality turn, turn, turn. Tell us the lesson that we should learn
mham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2557 posts, RR: 3 Reply 28, posted (4 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1348 times:
Quoting seb146 (Reply 18): Could there be diesel electric hybrids? Like a Prius (not the gawd-awful one shown by the OP) but with a diesel engine instead?
The problem with diesel hybrids is that the buyer will take 2 price premium hits. Both the diesel engine and the hybrid drivetrain are premiums over a petrol motor and manufacturers don't believe consumers will bite. Diesel engines also weigh more. Many hybrids use an Atkinson cycle petrol motor which is about par with diesel in efficiency. The reason it's not used in non-hybrids is lack of power density which can be overcome with an electric sidekick.
A diesel hybrid in series would be interesting, where the diesel operates constant at its peak efficiency such as used in locomotives..
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2418 posts, RR: 11 Reply 29, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1130 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3): Seriously, Priuses are bad enough to drive so why would you want to live in one?
Not really bad. Not fun but pleasant enough on a normal commute. Not so good as the Ford Fusion Hybrid but that didn't have a folddown back seat and averaged 10 MPG less. I agree this appendage is an abomination and I can't imagine it being anything but a chore to drive with this attached. The accommodations are nifty but I doubt enough folks want to take a Prius on a camping trip to make offering this pay off. The car shown is the spitting image of mine but I sure won't be buying that thing to put on my car. Superfly is right: the AMC car attachments, like the AMC cars themselves, look a lot better than this. And the reason I now own a Prius is simply that I fear high gas prices, not particularly because I want to save the planet. If we had a real energy policy in this country for the last 38+ plus years since the first oil shock, many of us would not feel like we have to buy hybrids. Better fuel efficiency is great but not at the cost of legislating entire classes of useful vehicles off the market. We have oil resources here to augment the push for greener energy; we just need to keep the eco-extremists from blocking most efforts to responsibly tap them so we can keep fuel prices from becoming unacceptably high, all too soon.
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2418 posts, RR: 11 Reply 30, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1129 times:
Aesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 3001 posts, RR: 3 Reply 31, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1042 times:
Quoting seb146 (Reply 26): They do look pretty good! I am just wondering why the diesel-electric hybrid is not widly available? With some diesel engines being able to take cooking oil, it would be a great alternate to petrolium and the price at the pump should be more stable, right?
Diesel engines that take cooking oil are old NA engines, not modern turbo common rail ones. I don't know how it works in the US but here it's even illegal to make your own fuel (I don't think it's enforced).
Diesel hybrid was a challenge, in part because of the transmission, and as you can see with PSA, they decided to avoid the problem by powering the rear wheels electrically, so you basically have two separate power-trains. I would rather have a Volt like car, with the diesel only used as a generator.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 36437 posts, RR: 86 Reply 32, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1041 times:
Quoting Aesma (Reply 31): I would rather have a Volt like car,
A recalled car?
Quoting AvObserver (Reply 29): I now own a Prius is simply that I fear high gas prices, not particularly because I want to save the planet.
You should put a Buch/Cheney or McCain/Palin and NRA bumper sticker on your Prius to confuse people.
You did own a Gremlin, Pacer and a Aztek right? That goes along perfect with your taste in odd looking vehicles.
By regurgitating that trash with the common knee-jerk republican response, you help kill one concept that can relieve us from our foreign oil addiction - something the US needs badly. Why do you hate the US?
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 36437 posts, RR: 86 Reply 35, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 966 times:
Quoting mham001 (Reply 34): By regurgitating that trash with the common knee-jerk republican response, you help kill one concept that can relieve us from our foreign oil addiction - something the US needs badly. Why do you hate the US?
??????? ???????
How does one rationally respond to such a comment?
Just about every member here that's been reading my post in the almost 12 years I've been at this site knows where my loyalty is when it comes to cars.
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 6457 posts, RR: 36 Reply 36, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 961 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3): Who's idea was this? Did someone at Toyota look at the Agera R and say "let's do something like that, but bigger and more phallic"?
I find it pretty fitting, as the people who buy hybrids tend to be pricks.
I am Descartes of Borg. I assimilate, therefore I am
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 36437 posts, RR: 86 Reply 37, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 956 times:
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 36): Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Who's idea was this? Did someone at Toyota look at the Agera R and say "let's do something like that, but bigger and more phallic"?
I find it pretty fitting, as the people who buy hybrids tend to be pricks.
LOL!
Quoting Aesma (Reply 33): I'm just talking about the concept, not the realization.
Understood.
Otherwise, I'd recommend a Ford Pinto.
mham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2557 posts, RR: 3 Reply 38, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 955 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 35): Just about every member here that's been reading my post in the almost 12 years I've been at this site knows where my loyalty is when it comes to cars.
You are missing all the political hoopla here about the Volt. Every idiot (sorry to say) republican pulls out some cheap-s**t shot at the Volt at every opportunity in blatant attempts to kill it. It is stupid and old already.
Nobodies knees jerk when you mention your love of 1969 Cadilacs (which I share) and points out that they too had at least one recall for a problem which could result in "UNEXPECTED LOSS OF THROTTLE CONTROL MAY RESULT IN AN ACCIDENT." http://www.lemonlawspecialists.com/r...=Cadillac&model=CADILLAC&year=1969
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 36437 posts, RR: 86 Reply 41, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 939 times:
Quoting mham001 (Reply 40): That Cadillac and all cars were/are heavily subsidized, it just wasn't transparent.
No they were not. If they were, then that would mean every car made was subsidized from the Vega up to the Fleetwood. Put down the Ralph Nader conspiracy theory books.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 14050 posts, RR: 55 Reply 42, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 910 times:
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 36): I find it pretty fitting, as the people who buy hybrids tend to be pricks.
Fly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 43, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 877 times:
Quoting Aesma (Reply 31):
Diesel engines that take cooking oil are old NA engines, not modern turbo common rail ones. I don't know how it works in the US but here it's even illegal to make your own fuel (I don't think it's enforced).
One of the most common veg oil conversions in the US is done on VW TDI cars, which are common rail + turbocharged.
You just need to be sure you're not using hydrogenated oil, and that it's completely free of water and properly filtered. Otherwise you can pretty much dump it straight into the tank, with some minor exceptions.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 14050 posts, RR: 55 Reply 44, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 865 times:
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 43):
Please tell us something we don't already know
I'm going to ask you to carefully consider all of my possible answers to your post and then decide whether you REALLY want me to answer that question.
So I do wonder what kind of MPG hit the Prius takes with this...er...growth. It may not weigh much, but the aerodynamics are atrocious. I'm thinking you're best off just buying a hybrid SUV.
Fly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 45, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 847 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 44):
I'm going to ask you to carefully consider all of my possible answers to your post and then decide whether you REALLY want me to answer that question.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 14050 posts, RR: 55 Reply 47, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 839 times:
If you want the most fuel-efficient mid-sized car on the market (yes, even more efficient than the TDI under reasonable driving conditions), then get a Prius.
The Prius is a very efficient road car. I am tired of hearing it ragged on because it is not:
*a pickup
*any good at off-road
*a sports car
*pretty
It aims to be none of these things. It aims to use as little fuel as possible and at THAT, it is excellent. I speak as an owner with a 50 mile commute each way.
Of course they were. The entire industry is subsidized by our tax money funneled into oil and road development. That oil subsidy in particular allowed us to buy cars like those Caddy's and Lincolns that got 7 mpg with a good tailwind. Meanwhile GM and a few oil companies were buying up all the electric trolley and bus systems they could so they could sell their dirty diesels.
Don't mind me though, Bob Lutz said it for me today..... "But who the hell cares about facts when you’re in O’Reilly’s self-described “No Spin Zone?” (The fine print might as well read, “We said ‘no spin,’ not ‘no deliberate misstatement of facts.’ ”) What on Earth is wrong with the conservative media movement that it feels it’s OK to spread false information, OK to damage the reputation of perhaps the finest piece of mechanical technology our country has produced since the space shuttle, OK to hurt an iconic American company that is roaring back to global pre-eminence, OK to hurt American employment in Hamtramck, Mich., as long as it damages the Obama administration’s reputation?
While as a conservative Republican I may well share the goal, I deplore the means employed to attain it. The conservative cause damages itself, destroys its credibility through the expedient spreading of untruths. The public will figure it out.
The right-wing “talking heads”, O’Reilly and Limbaugh at the forefront, have managed to make me embarrassed to describe myself as a conservative."
Quoting Aesma (Reply 33): I'm just talking about the concept, not the realization.
This is the type of damage that ignorant people are doing to American engineering. There is nothing wrong with the Volt or the concept, in fact, owners seem to be ecstatic with the car. The trashing you read is nothing more than weak flailing against Obama. Ridiculous really since it was Bush who did everything they say they hate. Bush pushed the technology. Bush was in charge when the tax credit was implemented. Bush actually had some vision on the matter but the right-wingers won't hear it.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 46): Quoting af773atmsp (Reply 15):
though I do think Toyota should make a Prius MPV, bigger than the Prius V and smaller than the Sienna.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 36437 posts, RR: 86 Reply 49, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 792 times:
Quoting mham001 (Reply 48): Meanwhile GM and a few oil companies were buying up all the electric trolley and bus systems they could so they could sell their dirty diesels.
Still crying about the demise of the street cars in the 1950s?
Not sure how you drag Bill O'reilly and Limbaugh in to a discussion about a camper option for an existing car.
I don't recall President Nixon advocating tax credits for those that buy a large Cadillac.
Oil is used in everything so you can't single out specific types of cars for using oil. The amount of oil burned transporting raw materials for those huge batteries for those hybrids across freight rail lines across continents and ships across oceans burns a hell of a lot more oil than an old large vehicle that gets 7MPG.
Also, trains use lots of oil, medical supplies use lots of oil-based products, bicycles use oil based products and I doubt people want to go back to glass shampoo bottles. Those are no fun when they break in the shower.
We are ALL guilty of committing oil sins.
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 3628 posts, RR: 2 Reply 50, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 783 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 49): So can someone buy a brand new VW Passat TDI and go to the nearest Kentucky Fried Chicken and fuel up?
I have a Touran TDI which very clearly states do not use vegitabel fat in the user manual and beside the filler cap. If something goes wrong your warranty is void, would you be willing to run the risk on a new car to save a few bucks?
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 36437 posts, RR: 86 Reply 51, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 779 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 50): would you be willing to run the risk on a new car to save a few bucks?
Of course not.
The Griesel gearheads do things that are not in the owners manual and not sanctioned by the manufacture. I can't think of any griesel made from the factory by the manufacture. They're all after-market modifications, including the old disesls.
AvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2418 posts, RR: 11 Reply 52, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 598 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 32): You should put a Buch/Cheney or McCain/Palin and NRA bumper sticker on your Prius to confuse people.
You did own a Gremlin, Pacer and a Aztek right? That goes along perfect with your taste in odd looking vehicles.
Wasn't the car I wanted, just the one I felt I needed, given some gas price projections I've seen. And actually, the other 3 cars you mentioned had some character, good or bad in their designs. The Prius mostly lacks character in looks or driving. Though it's smooth, it doesn't inspire. It has a different mission. Even the slow-selling Volt seems to evoke more passion from car testers and owners. But sometimes I feel the need to be practical. I'm not into bumper stickers but the pro-oil drilling cause, along with the eventual greener energy and the NRA, are all causes I can get behind. Bush/Cheney or McCain/Palin are water over the bridge but may I suggest Romney/Daniels? Sorry, I won't back Obama/Biden or Obama/Clinton.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 36): I find it pretty fitting, as the people who buy hybrids tend to be pricks.
Well, I try not to be. I am an advocate for vehicle choice which we'd fully have if our leaders pursued a responsible energy development policy.
Quoting mham001 (Reply 38): You are missing all the political hoopla here about the Volt. Every idiot (sorry to say) republican pulls out some cheap-s**t shot at the Volt at every opportunity in blatant attempts to kill it. It is stupid and old already.
I'd actually like to see the Volt succeed but its critics have some good points. It IS slow-selling, partly over its high price and because a lot of potential buyers are likely afraid it's too cutting-edge to be reliable. Past GM reliability issues with other cars may also have scared away some buyers. The recent fires with collision damaged lithium-ion batteries in several Volts didn't help, either, although that will be quickly fixed. Aside from its innovative powertrain, there's little to recommend it over a lighter and vastly cheaper Chevy Cruze Eco. And its development was heavily subsidized by taxpayers; hopefully we'll get the money back sometime but the low-sales volume doesn't inspire confidence we will.
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