ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 11686 posts, RR: 8 Posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1028 times:
On Friday, tickets went on sale for Bruce Springsteen's 'Wrecking Ball' tour for certain locations on Ticketmaster, but once again, Ticketmaster got 'scalped'. Apparently a huge percentage of tickets sold were to resellers using programs that circumvented programs in Ticketmaster's computers shutting out many fans who only want to pay face price and don't want to support the scalpers. Here is a link to a news article on this with some more details: http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...s-as-springsteen-goes-on-sale.html
Minutes after tickets went on sale, they were being resold for $500/each on scalper websites. Of course, here in the NJ-NYC area, there will be much more demand for such tickets due to the overwhelming number of fans and ones that want to see him in multiple shows. This problem is nothing new, recall problems as to Lady Gaga, 'Hannah Montana" and other major acts also hurt by mass scalping in recent years. Ticketmaster has been sued several times, they have been found to be connected with some resellers, employees of them cut into sales 'lines' and overall, it is a bad situation.
Reselling of most event tickets, even at well above face value, is legal in New Jersey and there are sound reasons to allow a secondary/resale market and businesses. Problem is when some of these broker-scalpers use an exceptionally unfair advantage to acquire an overwhelming number of tickets. Now some individuals may have bought tickets intending to resell to make some money maybe to pay for school, rent, food, but for these scalper-brokers, they are greedy bastards that in the long run hurt performing artists by shutting out real fans using possibly illegal programs.
So what is the answer to reduce the plague of 'scalping' ? As the posted article notes, Rep. Pascrell (D-NJ) is considering a Federal law on limiting reselling. Ticketmaster needs to face audits of transparency they would have to pay for, to answer to performers and the public to make sure tickets are honestly sold. Ticketmaster must change is algorithms in it's systems to limit repeated use of credit cards/debit card numbers, street addresses, individuals or even a zip code sub-district code (the last 4 letters of the full 9 digit zip code, used by some businesses). Credit and Debit card issuers may have to put in 'circuit breakers' of repeated use of account numbers to prevent abuses. Perhaps too a 'lottery' system could be put in so that using some of the information as noted previously, some randomness could occur to make sure 'power buyers' and those using programs are cut out but a cross-section of buyers could get tickets.
doug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 938 times:
You know, when it comes to sneaky business practices, government regulation is more of a challenge than a barrier. I think artists have the most power to improve the situation. If artists refuse to work with companies that have lax scalping protections to insure tickets get to the fans, then it provides an economic incentive to for the ticket sellers to clean up their act.
I'm not a huge fan of Pearl Jam's music, but I do respect the the stand (and economic hit) they took against ticket master in the 90's.
dl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11372 posts, RR: 88 Reply 2, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 927 times:
Its a business. If the artists really wanted it to be "fair" they'd sell tickets at the door. If a ticket has value, because the market bears the price, then it's fair game to sell it for whatever value you can get.
If the artists really want their fans to see them they'll play bigger venues, more dates and make less money for them. One way that artists get the face prices (high enough already) is they enforce a somewhat artificial scarcity to their appearances. They don't give away too much.
Bands who choose to avoid Ticketmaster still have scalping problems from advance ticket sales, but I too respect them for putting their money where their mouths are. But it's fairly pointless. Their shows are sold out, and if they aren't the prices charged by resellers go down to face value or less by the time the concert is open. No reseller wants to be stuck with tickets.
BTW...I'm not any happier about ticket scalping than most folks are...but I understand it. If someone is really interested in putting a stop to it then write a ticket purchasing program and buy a large lot of tickets yourself and then resell them to the public for face value (maybe plus cost of putting the program in the works....and maybe a little more for a nice dinner...in Tahiti...)
aa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13955 posts, RR: 62 Reply 3, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 872 times:
Another small example- Metallica played a small venue in SF. The Filmore- it couldn't take more than maybe 500 people. Tickets were all bought up and resold starting at $2,500.
QFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 1834 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 850 times:
Why doesn't Ticketmaster use some sort of dynamic pricing? That if tickets are selling faster than they should, prices go up, low demand drives them down. Its ridiculous in this age when most people buy tickets on the internet and would be relatively simple to implement and it would in the end put the extra money in artists pockets rather than scalpers.
Quoting dl021 (Reply 2):
If the artists really want their fans to see them they'll play bigger venues, more dates and make less money for them. One way that artists get the face prices (high enough already) is they enforce a somewhat artificial scarcity to their appearances. They don't give away too much.
Exactly, they complain about the scalpers ripping off their fans when really it is them ripping off their fans. That said, playing smaller venues where tickets will be resold ensures a packed stadium with an enthusiastic audience for them who will likely buy merchandise without the large costs for big events.
okie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2069 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (3 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 763 times:
Quoting ltbewr (Thread starter): Ticketmaster has been sued several times, they have been found to be connected with some resellers, employees of them cut into sales 'lines' and overall, it is a bad situation.
It does not seem to effect Ticketmaster one bit, so far. Apparently what small amount of litigation costs is offset by massive profits made reselling the tickets.
I know of one concert here in OKC the poop hit the fan as not one single ticket was able to be purchased for a 20,000 seat event one second after the tickets went on sale, they claimed to be "sold out" . Ticketmaster was involved and a lot of mad fans as only way to purchase a ticket was through a reseller.
Until the the performers get actively involved with ticket sales then I do not expect much to improve. I am not sure the performers get that involved anyway with ticket sales as long as they get their paycheck.
Some groups/performers that have been around a while take control of their ticket sales, clothing items, beads n' trinkets, they seem to be a little more above board and try keep all the profit in house.
Birdwatching From South Africa, joined Sep 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 54 Reply 6, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 704 times:
Why isn't there a problem with scalpers in the airline industry? Right, because you have to provide your name when you book/purchase, and later name changes are not possible (or very expensive).
So why not do the same with event tickets? You order the ticket, enter your name, and at the door they'll only let you in if you can show an ID with the name printed on your ticket.
Soren
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead! True story.
GBLKD From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2011, 330 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 696 times:
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 6): Why isn't there a problem with scalpers in the airline industry? Right, because you have to provide your name when you book/purchase, and later name changes are not possible (or very expensive).
So why not do the same with event tickets? You order the ticket, enter your name, and at the door they'll only let you in if you can show an ID with the name printed on your ticket.
As solutions go that's too obvious and sensible my firiend.
Those against such an idea would say that it's impossible to enforce as sometimes one person will buy 2 or 4 tickets than surprise thier friends or partner or friends in a group drop out at the last minute. Easy way around that would be if all tickets purchased by the organiser had his or her name on them. At the entrance he or she would produce a covering/proof of purchase letter with photo I.D. and he/she and party would be admitted. No organiser with I.D.= no admittance.
If things were done that way the scalpers would be out of business overnight. granted ticket prices would increase a bit to cover such a system but it would be darn near impossible for resellers to stay in business or (in theory) for tickets to exceed face value.
dl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11372 posts, RR: 88 Reply 8, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 636 times:
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 6): Why isn't there a problem with scalpers in the airline industry? Right, because you have to provide your name when you book/purchase, and later name changes are not possible (or very expensive).
Two completely different topics....resellers who sell at a markup from face value dont exist in the airline market .... there is competition for every seat on every route, and if you look at the routes served by one airline the only thing limiting prices is the airlines reasoning on where the top end limit is before someone will drive.
Selling tickets to names would prevent people from being able to sell their tickets to someone else if they for some reason couldn't make it.
The more reasonable thing to do would be to sell tickets to named individuals only with a cap on the number of tickets any one confirmed individual can purchase. Now, the resellers would probably figure out a way to stuff the line, the way they used to at box offices pre-selling tickets with day laborers or even homeless people.
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4044 posts, RR: 33 Reply 9, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 575 times:
Quoting aa61hvy (Reply 3): Another small example- Metallica played a small venue in SF. The Filmore- it couldn't take more than maybe 500 people. Tickets were all bought up and resold starting at $2,500.
I'm pretty sure The Filmore holds more than 500 people. It's a small venue but not that small.
One thing I have learned about shows that sell out. Don't go panicking the day they go on sale just because they sold out in 30 minutes. The scalpers all ask ridiculous prices right away. The closer it comes to show time, the closer to reality the ticket prices get. I've seen $30 tickets got for hundreds right after a show sold out, but found and bought some for that same show under face value the night before or even the day of.
[Edited 2012-01-30 01:13:41]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 11686 posts, RR: 8 Reply 10, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 548 times:
One idea could be what the NFL and some of it's teams do, that is only allow the resale of season tickets via the team's or the NFL's own resale site.The teams regard the tickets as their property. Many NFL teams do this so they get all the possible revenue from tickets instead of 3rd parties. Some teams enforce this by banning the resale of season tickets or part of them outside of team or NFL authorized resale venues and if a season ticket holder does sell outside of the authorized resale venue and if a person who gets the tickets from unnauthorized sources behaves badly, the original ticket holder is banned for purchasing season tickets for the next season.
As to Ticketmaster sold tickets, what could be done is that performers could require that their event's tickets for certain high demand events as a Bruce Springsteen concert can only be resold via them, with fees charged and additional revenues going to the performers. if the price exceeds a certain price point above the 'face' value, then the additional value (or income) to the reseller would be reported to the IRS and tax state authorities as income tax where applicable. TIcketmaster and the performer(s) as to the event could hold down the resale price, perhaps to not more than 2 times the 'face' value, keeping some access to real fans. As to singing performers, with the collapse of revenues due to bootlegging of recordings, this may help a little to try to help them keep some income and not lose it to more 'bootleggers'.
GuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1910 posts, RR: 10 Reply 12, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 402 times:
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 10): Some teams enforce this by banning the resale of season tickets or part of them outside of team or NFL authorized resale venues and if a season ticket holder does sell outside of the authorized resale venue and if a person who gets the tickets from unnauthorized sources behaves badly, the original ticket holder is banned for purchasing season tickets for the next season.
Well that's all fine and good in the NFL. To buy and resell 2 tickets to a Bruce Springsteen concert, you don't exactly have the threat of your "season tickets" being revoked.
I think Scalpers are a good thing. First off, if I'm not sure I can attend an event, as they are sold months in advance, I would like to have to the option to buy them last minute. I equate the extra price to "trip insurance." Also, if I do buy them in advance then something comes up, like work, illness, etc, I would like to sell them. The idea of printing names and requiring I.D.'s, with all do respect, is foolish. Can you imagine the lines of fans waiting at the gate to check ID's of 10, 20, 30, or even 50 thousand people? Really?
Sure, Ticketmaster has to fix the system, and I'm not against selling only in person at outlets, that would end the problem right there. But what's not being even discussed here is all the tickets that are reserved and never put on sale to the public because the best of the best are being held for AMEX Blackcard holders to buy, or forcing the general public to pay to become a member of a fan club to get first rights, etc..
Instead of complaining over scalpers getting tickets, why don't you do the same?? Make money and keep one or two for yourself. Win-Win for you, as I see it.
The CURE for Liberalism is COMMON SENSE! GuitrThree you ask? A STAR to BNA I live under! (Now GuitrFour)
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