tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 3556 posts, RR: 4 Posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9555 times:
Gotta commend them for being on top of things and preventing the destruction of America:
Quote: Leigh Van Bryan, a 26-year-old bar manager from Coventry, told The Sun that he and friend Emily Bunting were stopped by border guards when they arrived at Los Angeles International Airport and were questioned for five hours about messages Van Bryan had tweeted saying he planned to “destroy America.” After the questioning, during which Homeland Security agents threatened the two, said Van Bryan, they were put into a van and taken—along with a few illegal immigrants—to a holding cell and held overnight. The next morning, they said, Van Bryan and Bunting were forced to take a plane back to England.
According to a report in the Daily Mail, the officers gave Van Bryan a document that detailed why he was refused admission into the U.S. The document reads like a bad joke itself, saying:
“He had posted on his Tweeter [sic] website account that he was coming to the United States to dig up the grave of Marilyn Monroe. … Also on his tweeter [sic] account Mr. Bryan posted that he was coming to destroy America.”
Van Bryan told the newspaper he tried to explain to Homeland Security officials that the term “destroy” was British slang referring to a party and that his comments about “digging up Marilyn Monroe” were an attempt at humor, but the officers didn’t listen. The authorities even searched the two tourists’ luggage for shovels and other tools, he said.
This is part of Homeland Security and other authorities (FBI etc.) monitoring social media like Twitter and Facebook
That various USA agencies are monitoring social networks and a list of blogs and other sources (including WikiLeaks) for information about potential security hazards is understandable. However the ability of some agencies to actually interpret and use the information obtained appears to be in question
I personally think the intelligence business should be left to those that actually have intelligence.....
Tugg
[Edited 2012-01-30 16:27:05]
everything I have learned I have learned by mistake
CASINTEREST From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2308 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9515 times:
Quoting tugger (Thread starter): Gotta commend them for being on top of things and prevent the destruction of America:
Gotta wonder how much usefull information they are going to recover from Twitter and Facebook. More than likely it is all going to just turn into a PR nightmare for Homeland Security and a bunch of CMA employees at TSA.
DTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 549 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9126 times:
The title is misleading.
It is the Homeland Security that handled the situation. The TSA is not involved in this in anyway.
We all know how and what TSA does!!
777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2343 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9064 times:
Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 2): It is the Homeland Security that handled the situation
Actually, it was the Customs and Border Protection component of Homeland Security that interdicted the couple. Understand that regardless of the outcome, this is a no-win situation for the government. Had they actually done something so simple as jaywalked, there'd probably have been hell to pay for the Feds, assuming of course the media were to dig deep and reveal that the couple joked about doing 'xyz' while in the States.
einsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 1639 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8860 times:
I seriously don't understand people in this country. So this turned out to be a fluke. What if it had been true? Then we would be seeing comments about how DHS is not doing its job, etc. etc.
These people should know better than to post stuff that might be misinterpreted. It's like back here. During Christmas, we sing a song called "Bomba" where we have to sing a little verse (or else we don't know the "Bomba". Try yelling "Bomba" at a busy airport (like JFK or MIA). Odds are that you'll be taken in for questioning even though your intentions are just signing that song.
DHS is just responding to what they think might be a credible threat. If anything, they should charge these people for causing DHS to go after them in the first place.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
LOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 618 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8648 times:
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 5): DHS is just responding to what they think might be a credible threat. If anything, they should charge these people for causing DHS to go after them in the first place.
Flaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1020 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8549 times:
Im actually far more concerned about the depths of government spying and the ramifications to our rapidly dwindling freedom and privacy than I am about any terrorist threat.
BD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 448 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8484 times:
Quoting sccutler (Reply 7): The inmates are running the asylum.
Sad to say they have been in charge for a very long time. TSA in particular is a total joke, slap a uniform on a bunch of jobsworths applying no commonsense to any situation because they have a rule that cannot be interpreted any other way than theirs. Have a wallet half an inch thick...it MUST go through x-ray, wearing ultra thin flip flops...xray please, what do you mean you have a 3.5oz tub of yogurt in your backpack...verbotten!! Are you a young lady wearing stretch pants and a sheer silk top with not a belt buckle, watch or jewellery in sight, setting off the metal detector?? Can't possibly be our detector having a fault, step through three times and then come over here for a pat down...I was particularly amused by the test in SLC (maybe others) where they asked your name so they could check against the ticket and ID.....must have scared those terrorists witless knowing they had to remember a name. Even the TSA gave up on that one after a while. Spend a fortune on body scanner machines, then realize you can't afford the staff to operate them? let's close a few lanes and increase the wait time at security (SLC TSA, you know who you are)
Flaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1020 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8409 times:
Quoting BD338 (Reply 9): .I was particularly amused by the test in SLC (maybe others) where they asked your name so they could check against the ticket and ID.....must have scared those terrorists witless knowing they had to remember a name. Even the TSA gave up on that one after a while.
They haven't given it up completely. I still see that one from time to time.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8263 times:
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 5): So this turned out to be a fluke. What if it had been true?
Frankly, if DHS/CBP can't distinguish between a joke and a threat, they have no business being in business.
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 5):
These people should know better than to post stuff that might be misinterpreted.
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 5): If anything, they should charge these people for causing DHS to go after them in the first place.
And the Jews should have known better than to be Jews, so Hitler and company were right all along by persecuting them for not knowing better than to be Jews.
Feel free to replace "Jew" with "disabled", "homosexual", or any other group of people.
Disgusting.
Quoting Flaps (Reply 8): Im actually far more concerned about the depths of government spying and the ramifications to our rapidly dwindling freedom and privacy than I am about any terrorist threat.
As am I, however, not specifically in this case. Twitter is quite obviously public access. It's no different than shouting it on a street corner. In fact, I'm glad that they're at least paying attention, if making a mockery of the whole "intelligence" thing.
Skydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 798 posts, RR: 12 Reply 12, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7891 times:
Quoting tugger (Thread starter): The authorities even searched the two tourists’ luggage for shovels and other tools, he said.
Is this for real? Do they actually think someone would pack a shovel in their suitcase and bring it all the way from the UK? Hardware stores, even Walmart and Lowe's sell all kinds... this has to be one of the most ludicrous things I have read in a long time!
Quoting tugger (Thread starter): Mr. Bryan posted that he was coming to destroy America.”
America need not fear Mr. Bryan. America is rapidly destroying itself quite well with inane policies.
skipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 1389 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6975 times:
The procedures are in place for good reason, the missing component is the exercise of good judgement. There is no credible belief that they had come to dig up the corpse of Marilyn Monroe and destroy America. Being locked up and deported is a horrible ordeal, one I would not see as being pertinent or proportional to the alleged offense.
United_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 6804 posts, RR: 10 Reply 14, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6676 times:
Quoting tugger (Thread starter): and that his comments about “digging up Marilyn Monroe” were an attempt at humor, but the officers didn’t listen.
That,and Marilyn is in an above-ground masoleum.
'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
gweilo88 From Hong Kong, joined May 2009, 19 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6599 times:
Dealing with this security nonsense and going through the US visa process is why my family and friends changed our vacationing to other places like Australia instead of America. We know more and more people making this kind of decision.
One day maybe someone will count how much American businesses are losing to other countries because it just isn't worth the extra hassles and then something will change. Or probably not.
bristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1998 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6328 times:
Seems to me that pretty much every response has so far been ragging on the authorities. Imagine if those people had come in to the US and done damage. Homeland Security would be sued left, right and center if they had been seen to ignore the blatantly obvious comments on Twitter.
'You mean you saw comments on the world's largest messaging service that they were coming to destroy America and you didn't do anything about it?'. Doesn't look good, does it?
People too quickly forget about the horrors of terrorism. Homeland Security are blamed of things go wrong then blamed if they're too invasive.
9MMPQ From Netherlands, joined Nov 2011, 124 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6008 times:
I was expecting this one to show up here sooner or later. It's a sad state of affairs. I can't help myself asking whether the people protecting my security ( be they with Homeland Security or TSA ) would actually be up to the task if sh*t really did hit the fan. More often then not i'd have to say '' I'd rather depend on myself ''
Quoting Skydrol (Reply 12): Hardware stores, even Walmart and Lowe's sell all kinds...
Are you providing alternative ideas to people who have announced their intentions to dig up Marilyn Monroe ?
cmhsrq From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 955 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5967 times:
Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 16): Seems to me that pretty much every response has so far been ragging on the authorities. Imagine if those people had come in to the US and done damage. Homeland Security would be sued left, right and center if they had been seen to ignore the blatantly obvious comments on Twitter.
'You mean you saw comments on the world's largest messaging service that they were coming to destroy America and you didn't do anything about it?'. Doesn't look good, does it?
People too quickly forget about the horrors of terrorism. Homeland Security are blamed of things go wrong then blamed if they're too invasive.
I'm sure real terrorists would tweet that they are coming to the USA to destroy. For some reason people think terrorists are stupid. That has been proven wrong hasn't it?
Personally, I'm willing to give up security and live with the 1 and a trillion chance that a terrorist will strike the US then have the government and DHS grow bigger and bigger and more and more invasive. The loss of personal freedoms is a much bigger concern. For some reason people have an irrational fear of terrorists on airplanes. Yet the daily murders, rape, muggings, fires, car crashes, etc that are broadcast on the local news every evening are non events.
I guess it's ok for Americans to kill Americans, but if a foreigner kills one, then it's terrorism.
slz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5936 times:
Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 16): Seems to me that pretty much every response has so far been ragging on the authorities. Imagine if those people had come in to the US and done damage. Homeland Security would be sued left, right and center if they had been seen to ignore the blatantly obvious comments on Twitter.
That they pick up the comments and single out the passenger upon arrival for a quick look, I can only applaud.
That they subsequently fail to distinghuish between a real threat and some form of figurative speech after more than 5 hours of questioning (!), I can not.
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 11): if DHS/CBP can't distinguish between a joke and a threat, they have no business being in business
Indeed: what a joke!.
I wonder how many far better prepared criminals managed to slip by unquestioned all while CBP were sorting out this alleged 'terror treat'?
ehh, Yes, there are compact shovels that fold up and are smaller in size than my laptop when folded up. I have also seen a woman in Frankfurt being asked by customs as to why the hell she would bring 12 lbs of gold in her carry on from Nigeria. Then after she responded, Customs came back and said "you simply do not put 12 lbs of gold in your carry on and think it is ok not to declare it."
Don't get me wrong, the TSA has its major hiccups. 85 percent of the time I go through the nudie screeners, it shows that I have something in my crotch. I mean I already have a love gun there but that is another story. How we trust a machine that has such a high false positive rate is beyond me.
Now this guy said he was going to "Destroy America". I am quite glad he was pulled aside and questioned upon arrival. That being said, if he explained to me that he meant "getting shit faced and raging all night while in the States", I would have totally understood the simple misunderstanding and informed him that he used a poor sequence of words in his tweet. Twitter is public, that picture of me on facebook sleeping in a closet in my college days with a beer can as a hat, that is public. This guy meant 0 harm, tweeted a tweet that was flagged and hopefully will be let back to the USA in the future.
Long story short, things get lost in translation, hopefully when Terrorist tweets I am going to destroy america his tweet gets flagged and his bags and bombs get confiscated.
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 5243 posts, RR: 12 Reply 22, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5697 times:
Quoting tugger (Thread starter): This is part of Homeland Security and other authorities (FBI etc.) monitoring social media like Twitter and Facebook
That various USA agencies are monitoring social networks and a list of blogs and other sources (including WikiLeaks) for information about potential security hazards is understandable. However the ability of some agencies to actually interpret and use the information obtained appears to be in question
I'm sure Marilyn Monroe's bones feel safe.
I was just waiting to find out this was an American citizen refused re-entry into his own country. Regardless, moronic...
Quoting United_fan (Reply 14): That,and Marilyn is in an above-ground masoleum.
They will need the Mission Impossible team for that.
BTW, finally I've learned what something means...
EFFECT; DHS: "We have heard chatter that has caused us to tighten security for all flights to/from the UK for the following 3 weeks due to a threat against women in Las Vegas".
CAUSE; Facebook post by DorchstrHotEE298: "OMG, I'm go--nuh tear up Las Vegas, b|tche$ !!!"
Daysleeper From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2009, 692 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5670 times:
Am I alone in thinking that no self-respecting terrorist is going to tweet what their plans are before they have carried them out?
I’m also curious as to what they thought the threat would be from digging up Marilyn Monroe. I understand that our American cousins are perhaps still a little pissed off that we stole and then subsequently lost the bones of Thomas Paine, but that was a different time - We have a far more advanced indexing system now
On a more serious note – US Border control is getting to a point where I will no longer travel to the US for leisure. What really bugs me with it are the inconstancy’s from one airport to another. Ranging from the staff at BOS being polite, helpful, and even joking with me and a friend, to JFK where they are often arrogant, rude and perhaps even threatening.
airproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 412 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4535 times:
Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 23): Am I alone in thinking that no self-respecting terrorist is going to tweet what their plans are before they have carried them out?
No you're not! I thought the same reading this thread.
Terrorism is based precisely on a no-tech policy. Every little piece of information about any action is transmitted from voice to voice, without the intervention of an electronic device of any kind.
No trace, no nothing.
I wouldn't see any terrorist post the memo of what's he's gonna do on a worldwide social network... Or maybe some "noise terrorists" like Justin Bieber....
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
abba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 919 posts, RR: 0 Reply 26, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4497 times:
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 5): These people should know better than to post stuff that might be misinterpreted.
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 5): DHS is just responding to what they think might be a credible threat. If anything, they should charge these people for causing DHS to go after them in the first place
Quoting Flaps (Reply 8): Im actually far more concerned about the depths of government spying and the ramifications to our rapidly dwindling freedom and privacy than I am about any terrorist threat.
Scares the living daylight out of me that I must take into account how people in uniforms might misinterpret what I write to my friends on Face book or Twitter because of them spying. Our war against terrorism and for our Western way of life is little by little is lost due to primarily ourselves.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 6510 posts, RR: 25 Reply 27, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4444 times:
Quoting wdleiser (Reply 21): Then after she responded, Customs came back and said "you simply do not put 12 lbs of gold in your carry on and think it is ok not to declare it."
funny comparison. Anyone can legally bring in as much gold as possible , she or he just have to declare it and pay VAT on the amount. Not declaring is smuggling, in the US that Nigerian lady would have been handcuffed. Here she#s just taken to the office, has to pay VAT and a penalty.
Now, a shovel in carry on should not have gone undetected. Customs officers checking the checked in luggage for shovels because someone has tweeted that he's gonna dig up a dead movie start is stuff for a slap-stick comedy. Even if that movie star is a national icon.
Acheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1232 posts, RR: 2 Reply 29, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4244 times:
Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 16):
Seems to me that pretty much every response has so far been ragging on the authorities. Imagine if those people had come in to the US and done damage. Homeland Security would be sued left, right and center if they had been seen to ignore the blatantly obvious comments on Twitter.
Terrorists and would-be criminals won't be tweeting their intentions right before taking a flight to the US.
Quoting Daysleeper (Reply 23):
Am I alone in thinking that no self-respecting terrorist is going to tweet what their plans are before they have carried them out?
Some people seem to think that though, for some reason. Common sense is not that common.
Flaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1020 posts, RR: 4 Reply 30, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4195 times:
What really bugs me with it are the inconstancy’s from one airport to another. Ranging from the staff at BOS being polite, helpful, and even joking with me and a friend, to JFK where they are often arrogant, rude and perhaps even threatening.
That is probably more of a cultural thing among various localities than a DHS/TSA/Customs & Immigration issue. You'll find that from city to city in every type of transaction from police to sales people to doctors. That said though it doesn't make the experience any better. I travel frequently between the US and Canada and honestly the experience isn't all that different between the two.
At YYZ I often feel like I'm in a second or third world megalopolis (aka JFK) at YYC I often feel as if I'm entering the old Soviet Union and at YEG the experience is usually pretty neutral like a PIT. Each facility in both of these countries has it's own personality and for the most part this is true in most countries. I'm not defending the US system by any means but I can't really think of an example in any country where I would call the immigration process pleasant.
Anyone that finds the process so onerous that they no longer wish to visit the US is certainly free to go elsewhere. That certainly causes me no distress. I have a very lengthy list of places that I will neither go nor transit because of similar issues. I'm quite sure that all of those places are getting along quite well without me. If people quit visiting the US in droves it will likely cause one two things to occur, either of which is positive from my humble perspective. One, the US government takes note and makes changes to improve the process whereby everyone comes out a winner. Two, the US government does nothing and the local populace gets a little more breathing room and is subject to fewer sensory assaults by arrogant speedo wearing european tourists,
My apolgies in advance to all of those Europeans that are neither arrogant nor speedo wearing. Just like the ugly Americans the bad apples are the vast minority. Just disproportionately visible/memorable.
brilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 2198 posts, RR: 1 Reply 31, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4069 times:
Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 16): Homeland Security would be sued left, right and center if they had been seen to ignore the blatantly obvious comments on Twitter.
I don't think that homeland security can be sued as it is just doing its "job".
Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 28): Hate to bring this into an aviation discussion, but electing Ron Paul in the fall will go a long way toward fixing this type of inept bureaucracy...
I don't like the prospect of Ron Paul even living long enough to fulfill his tenure as president let alone him being president. He is only pandering to the extreme right and is about as much as a joke as having DHS run security for the transportation system in the US.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 6510 posts, RR: 25 Reply 32, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4008 times:
Quoting Flaps (Reply 30): o JFK where they are often arrogant, rude and perhaps even threatening.
Being rude is the way New Yerkers are polite. Sometimes customs asks German travellers "do you have any wurst" and the beagle is already heading towards the luggage. My standard answer always is "why, I didn't know you ran out of food here" . My be next time I better say that I left my wurst case back home.
Anyway, it really depends on the people, immigration at EWR I have eperienced polite and with a smile and the best experience ever was one day at HNL coming from Australia and I was the very first passenger to arrive that day. But that was way end of the 80s. The country has changed since 9/11 and is not the same anymore. Which is a pity.
Don't treat your friends as enemies, at least not the few America has left.
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 356 posts, RR: 1 Reply 33, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3959 times:
Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 28): Hate to bring this into an aviation discussion, but electing Ron Paul in the fall will go a long way toward fixing this type of inept bureaucracy...
I agree 110%! He is the only candidate that is working for the people and for the freedom of this country.
treebeard787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 356 posts, RR: 1 Reply 34, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3895 times:
I am not happy with the government being able to read what ever I do or invade my privacy all in the name of "Security" I certainly don't feel safer knowing that the government spies on the people as if we were the enemy. I am more worried about the danger of our own government than any terrorist threat could ever could.
pumaknight From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 249 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3443 times:
Security is a necssary requirement of the modern world, but to think that this visible security at airports is anything other than a marketing exercise and designed to catch the "nutter" from borading the aircraft...well....it strieks as missing the point.
In my experience I have had nothing but good times with US border control and TSA, as long as I am polite, respectful and courteous....and that is not too hard nor too much to ask. But if I look wider than personal interactions, I get concerned about the balance of marketing security and actual security in the US.
Let be honest, almost 99% of the screening for flying and security for air travel goes on behind the curtains, never to be seen by us, Joe Public. That is a good thing, beacuse I am sure that most of it would be terrifying and put alot of people off flying!! The stuff we do see is designed to reassure us that something is being done for our protection....as long as that visible stuff is crediable and doens't make us feel either too scared or too stupid.....long may it continue.
So when in the US recently, imagine my amusement to see that TSA would no longer be searching or screening children because it distressed them and the parents....now be honest, if you were a terrorist, would you even think twice about using a child....unfortunately fact has shown they would not....so the TSA have adopted a policy of not searcing children...helpful for the parents and children of genuine travellers, but not too reassuring for those looking for the TSA to provide a screen of confidence.....which goes back to my point of marketing over actual security.....this fall foul of the stupid rule....it is not creditable.....and to be honest, neither is deporting a man because he was goingn to "Destory America" if that was the reason he was deported (he may have been deported for being unco-operative, rude and offensive...all good reasons!!)
So where do we stand???? I for one, hope the US get the balance right and soon, because, I for one want to continue to enjoy freedom....that is the best way to show the terrorists who is winning. The US deserves to feel free and for genuine visitors to come and see your amazing country.
turjo101 From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 53 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3212 times:
If someone announces, that they're going "destroy America", then they are not gonna get that job done in just a pair of two. I am appalled that the individuals in charge of questioning these 2 did not pick this bit up. They probably should have employed such "useful" measures as waterboarding in their questioning. Maybe these two would then divulge names of others that were flying into America that day or their associates back home. Instead they were freed and simply allowed to fly back home. What happens to the others that got into the country that day. Should DHS not look at everyone who flew into the US from Britain around the same time. Shouldn't measures be taken to track everyone down and take them in for "questioning"
blueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2524 posts, RR: 1 Reply 38, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2665 times:
That they were able to go from Twitter posts to specific individuals flying to the US is pretty good, in my opinion. Terrorists and criminals (in general) do use public forums to communicate because of the sheer volume of data makes it that much harder to isolate specific threads. Of course, they tend to obfuscate their intent a little better than these radical Brits.
Quoting tugger (Thread starter): I personally think the intelligence business should be left to those that actually have intelligence.
I personally believe the intelligence business shouldn't be second-guessed by nitwits who haven't shown any sign of intelligence (no, I don't mean the OP). Say a CBP officer would have done the sensible thing and let them get on with their trip and, however mind-boggling small the odds are, the pair turned out to be a genuine threat. Do you think the officer would be given a pass because he made the right judgement call, or do you think he would be dragged in front of a self-grandising, find-a-scapegoat-at-any-price-really-any-price Congress commission to be humiliated and skewered for life and then branded an America-hating, children-eating, Nazi-loving monster on Fox News?
With that kind of oversight and support (ahem) behind me, I'd kick anyone out who sneezed the wrong way.
If we want the intelligence business to work with intelligence, our overlords should have the intelligence to let them, and we should have the intelligence to pick the right overlords.
Quoting sccutler (Reply 7): The inmates are running the asylum.
The inmates are locked in the Congress and we put them up there.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 39, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1109 times:
Quoting wdleiser (Reply 21): I would have totally understood the simple misunderstanding and informed him that he used a poor sequence of words in his tweet.
I wouldn't even go that far after uncovering the misunderstanding: "Enjoy your stay". Maybe a "Just make sure you don't ACTUALLY destroy anything, the police don't look too kindly on that" with a wink if I'm feeling humorous.
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 38): That they were able to go from Twitter posts to specific individuals flying to the US is pretty good, in my opinion.
Not really. Just do a Twitter search for certain phrases (like "destroy America"), pick out Tweets that match a specific algorithm, go to their user profile (where they probably have their real name and location posted somewhere), cross-reference databases to identify the real person, and put a flag in their name in the computer system.
All that can be done without a single human looking at anything.
geezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 715 posts, RR: 1 Reply 40, posted (3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 993 times:
Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 28): Hate to bring this into an aviation discussion, but electing Ron Paul in the fall will go a long way toward fixing this type of inept bureaucracy...
I really hope you don't hold your breath until Ron Paul wins the nomination to run for potus, much less gets elected; you're going to become very "red faced" for lack of air if you do !
StarAC17 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 2614 posts, RR: 4 Reply 41, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 951 times:
Quoting BD338 (Reply 9): Are you a young lady wearing stretch pants and a sheer silk top with not a belt buckle, watch or jewellery in sight, setting off the metal detector??
She probably has a piercing is somewhere not going to want to be seen in a public area
Quoting skipness1E (Reply 13): The procedures are in place for good reason, the missing component is the exercise of good judgement. There is no credible belief that they had come to dig up the corpse of Marilyn Monroe and destroy America. Being locked up and deported is a horrible ordeal, one I would not see as being pertinent or proportional to the alleged offense.
The two should have been questioned and let go with a stern warning. I bet if you did this to Israel they would have been able to figure this out and they are the benchmark for how security should be.
Quoting cmhsrq (Reply 19):
Personally, I'm willing to give up security and live with the 1 and a trillion chance that a terrorist will strike the US then have the government and DHS grow bigger and bigger and more and more invasive.
If we give up our freedom we will lose our security anyways.
Quoting enilria (Reply 22): I was just waiting to find out this was an American citizen refused re-entry into his own country. Regardless, moronic...
Not allowed (yet) if you have a US passport you have to be admitted to the US but they can arrest you at customs if there is a warrant for your arrest.
Quoting wdleiser (Reply 21): This guy meant 0 harm, tweeted a tweet that was flagged and hopefully will be let back to the USA in the future.
He and his friend can but will have to apply for a visa from the US embassy in the UK.
Quoting treebeard787 (Reply 34): I am not happy with the government being able to read what ever I do or invade my privacy all in the name of "Security" I certainly don't feel safer knowing that the government spies on the people as if we were the enemy. I am more worried about the danger of our own government than any terrorist threat could ever could.
If they are reading you e-mail with out a warrant then you have a point 100%. However twitter is a public forum and what you say on it is public info and everyone has access to it.
Charles79 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1236 posts, RR: 5 Reply 42, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 933 times:
This has to be a joke, has to be. Otherwise it really disturbs me that the authorities have acquired so much power in such a short period of time without establishing the proper channels for checks and balances. As slz396 posted:
Quoting slz396 (Reply 20): That they pick up the comments and single out the passenger upon arrival for a quick look, I can only applaud.
That they subsequently fail to distinguish between a real threat and some form of figurative speech after more than 5 hours of questioning (!), I cannot.
What this incident tells me is that either the DHS investigators are quite inept and couldn't establish that the "potential threat" was actually a pair of harmless tourists before they arrived on US soil or that they had their minds made up and wanted to "teach" them a lesson not to mess with America. If the latter is closer to reality then I fear we may have the wrong individuals trying to "protect" us. The alarming part of this is that it appears that there is no recourse to appeal their decisions either...
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 18948 posts, RR: 52 Reply 43, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 909 times:
Guys, remember that entry to any nation is a privilege - not a right.
Countries can deny entry to anyone on a host of reasons. The US previously has denied entry to all types of folks including journalist, artist, or others that are are even paid for a living are paid to express their views.
Ultimately, the lesson here is people need to be responsible for their actions including postings on the internet.
Lastly, I believe its quite impressive US agencies now actively monitor chatter on the web. What might seem a harmless comment someplace might one day be a critical lead to stopping nefarious acts.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
geezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 715 posts, RR: 1 Reply 44, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 880 times:
Quoting airproxx (Reply 25): Terrorism is based precisely on a no-tech policy. Every little piece of information about any action is transmitted from voice to voice, without the intervention of an electronic device of any kind.
No trace, no nothing.
I wouldn't see any terrorist post the memo of what's he's gonna do on a worldwide social network... Or maybe some "noise terrorists" like Justin Bieber....
( I couldn't agree more about little J.B. being a "noise terrorist" ! ( LMAO ! )
Actually, past events have proven that what you are saying here is absolutely ridiculous; if you think all "terrorists" are so "closed mouthed", you would be very incorrect.
In reading most of the above posts, I notice that almost everyone is blaming TSA and HLS for all of our past problems; who do you think RUNS TSA ? I forget his name at the moment, but the guy is NO dummy; he's been a very effective person in his line of work, for a long time now; however.........who do you suppose HE reports to ? A very visible (and long time and well known ) AIRHEAD whose initials are J.N.; but even she isn't the REAL problem.........it goes on up to two more airheads that she reports to ! I wouldn't be too concerned though; we could very well see a major reduction of airheads "at the top" in the not too distant future.
B747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 967 posts, RR: 0 Reply 45, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 871 times:
Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 41): The two should have been questioned and let go with a stern warning.
Stern warning? For what exactly?
They said something which was so obviously a joke, and used slang (which was clearly misinterpreted by the DHS). This wasn't done at an airport or some other secure area, it was done on Twitter and was clearly intended as banter amongst friends before the trip they were obviously looking forward to.
In the UK you often hear people saying "We're going to destroy here" or "We're going to destroy there". It just means that they are going to go the the entertainment district and drink lots and lots and lots.
Furthermore, who would believe that anyone is going to dig up the grave of Monroe?
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 43): Ultimately, the lesson here is people need to be responsible for their actions including postings on the internet.
In what way were their actions irresponsible? Are you now saying that we cannot use slang or make obvious jokes on the internet? Perhaps when Peter Griffin said that was going to "destroy" Lois in Family Guy the police should have knocked on his door and instantly arrested him.
What they did was banter amongst friends on Twitter - and it was clearly so. Are we now not free to have a bit of amusement in our private lives?
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 43): Lastly, I believe its quite impressive US agencies now actively monitor chatter on the web. What might seem a harmless comment someplace might one day be a critical lead to stopping nefarious acts.
I think this is actually quite reassuring. It is incredible that they managed to pick up on those comments, and I feel safer for it.
However, those that see the comments and judge them to be a risk or not must have at least some common sense - which from the sounds of this article they didn't.
Ultimately I feel that the couple have been unjustly treated and have missed out on what was likely going to be a fantastic trip. I hope this doesn't put them off travelling in future - there are plenty of great places to see which don't involve going to the States.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 18948 posts, RR: 52 Reply 46, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 850 times:
Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 45): In what way were their actions irresponsible? Are you now saying that we cannot use slang or make obvious jokes on the internet?
They can say anything they wish - however they by the same light live by the consequences.
With every action there is reaction, so harmless banter or not, the words expressed were taken in negative light.
Listen - border control agencies can refuse entry to anyone on any grounds .. Having worked at LAX, I have seen tons of incidents where people were refused entry --
I once recall some person that did some prostitution civil rights representation work in Holland denied entry off a KLM flight as it was deemed they were supporting what it considered criminal activity in the US.
I've seen other cases where simply the inspectors did not like your look, or responses and hence refused entry, or others where 40-year got denied for some minor legal issue they had in the US when they were teenagers.
So no, I don't see the US refusing entry for someone making "jokes" on the internet extreme. With todays ease of global communications means its not much different than saying or doing the same infront of the customs agent.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 2696 posts, RR: 25 Reply 47, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 848 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 43): Ultimately, the lesson here is people need to be responsible for their actions including postings on the internet.
I agree. But this case is so obviously not harmful I would have hoped common sense would have came into play. It didn't.
Chimborazo From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2011, 48 posts, RR: 0 Reply 48, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 812 times:
Over here we've just had four idiots admit their guilt in a potential plot to blow up various places including the London stock exchange. Intelligence intercepted them, had them bang to rights and so they've (fianlly) 'fessed up to try and get a lesser sentence.
And over the pond... A couple get arrested for a (not) humorous but nonetheless harmless FB post.
Ther will be genuine terrorists around the world who wish harm to the US laughing their socks off at this.
It's completely ridiculous however you try and justify it.
StarAC17 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 2614 posts, RR: 4 Reply 49, posted (3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 776 times:
Quoting geezer (Reply 44): A very visible (and long time and well known ) AIRHEAD whose initials are J.N.; but even she isn't the REAL problem.........it goes on up to two more airheads that she reports to ! I wouldn't be too concerned though; we could very well see a major reduction of airheads "at the top" in the not too distant future.
I'll give you that J.N. isn't necessarily that smart, I think she still thinks the 9/11 hijackers entered the US from Canada.
I don't know I would have said that it wasn't the best choice of words and that Twitter is a figurative fishbowl and anyone in the world can see your posts. I get the humour perfectly but Americans (well this guy) didn't and would bet that they have been told zero tolerance for everything etc.
The bit about digging up the grave is a bit sick and I can understand people taking exception to that .
The bit about ''destroy'' is a common term in the UK and Ireland so really wasn't an issue. Maybe UK Border control will ban Americans and their '' fanny packs'' for being obscene
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
B747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 967 posts, RR: 0 Reply 51, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 707 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46): They can say anything they wish - however they by the same light live by the consequences.
With every action there is reaction, so harmless banter or not, the words expressed were taken in negative light.
The question is was the reaction right?
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46): Listen - border control agencies can refuse entry to anyone on any grounds
That was never in doubt.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46): So no, I don't see the US refusing entry for someone making "jokes" on the internet extreme. With todays ease of global communications means its not much different than saying or doing the same infront of the customs agent.
That attitude is fine, but the key question is where will it stop? I'm all for monitoring of social media to look for potential threats, however for sake of liberty those that monitor these sites must be able to distinguish between a genuine threat to peoples' security and a distasteful comment.
One could draw comparisons between what happened here and the Stasi in East Germany.
How would you like it if I overheard you making an obvious joke in your private life, reported it to the authorities and then you getting refused entry to a certain country because of it? Effectively you are loosing a privilege because someone took exception to an innocent joke you made in your private life...not that different from those reported for making derogatory comments about the Socialist regime in East Germany?
It is all very well saying that we have to be "responsible" however it is very easy for an innocent joke to slip out...and if we are resilient enough to resist making such comments, don't you think the world would be an unpleasant place with us constantly having think about what we say because we don't know who is listening?
There has to be a line and unfortunately in this instance I think the authorities overstepped that line.
StarAC17 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 2614 posts, RR: 4 Reply 52, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 668 times:
Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 51): That attitude is fine, but the key question is where will it stop?
I doubt that these two people (the poster and his friend) will ever get into the US again and probably not be allowed to overfly US airspace in the future.
I did post before they they will now have to apply for Visas like a citizen of a country that requires one (ex. the UAE) through a US office overseas. Now that will only give them the right to apply for entry, doesn't mean they will have to get in to the US even if the US government deems them suitable of a visa in the future.
Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 51): That attitude is fine, but the key question is where will it stop?
I know I quoted this twice in the same post but I now have another response to the same question. It stops when the US had had enough of the freaking panicking that had made 9/11 (I now dub it 11/9) successful as it has made the US paranoid of everything it seems. IIRC Al-Qaeda had the intention of not being able to destroy the US but to make the US destroy themselves through both bankrupting them though never ending wars and to make them destroy their freedoms from within.
I wonder how do you stand on the volume of cameras in London??
I do stand by that if the same attacks hit London and not New York and Washington the brits would not have been as paranoid as the US have been.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 53, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 590 times:
Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 52):
I do stand by that if the same attacks hit London and not New York and Washington the brits would not have been as paranoid as the US have been.
I call baloney on that.
Remember, just a few weeks after the Tube bombings, when armed police chased down a completely innocent man, and shot him point blank in the head 7 times?
How about the anti-terrorism laws passed that would (should, these days the Supreme Court has been rather stupid about such matters lately) be ruled unconstitutional in the US?
lewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3095 posts, RR: 6 Reply 54, posted (3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 557 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 46): So no, I don't see the US refusing entry for someone making "jokes" on the internet extreme
The only joke in this guy's tweet was digging up Monroe's grave. The term "destroy" as it has been mentioned has nothing to do with destroying something, it means getting wasted and partying. It is a language issue which should have been accepted once an explanation was given, it was not part of a joke.
London has had experiences with bombs and casualties since the IRA era. Sure the bombings were a shock (same as in Madrid) and the UK (as well as the rest of Europe) had the same knee-jerk reactions to it. The difference is the mental state of the British after it. For Americans it was the first time that a foreign entity actually targeted civilians in the country and that caused a lot of paranoia and scaremongering. I think the British and the Spanish kept their cool a bit better.
I don't think there were people that condoned the shooting of an innocent man in the tube but I'd bet you the same would have happened in the US if the police were following a suspect for terrorism who would then start running when asked to stop. There is no doubt that US police officers are more trigger-happy than their UK colleagues.
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 2696 posts, RR: 25 Reply 55, posted (3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 550 times:
Quoting lewis (Reply 54): London has had experiences with bombs and casualties since the IRA era. Sure the bombings were a shock (same as in Madrid) and the UK (as well as the rest of Europe) had the same knee-jerk reactions to it. The difference is the mental state of the British after it. For Americans it was the first time that a foreign entity actually targeted civilians in the country and that caused a lot of paranoia and scaremongering. I think the British and the Spanish kept their cool a bit better.
I do agree, America has been largely shielded from terrorism and we'd react differently. But I don't think you can compare 9/11 to the IRA bombs or even the Madrid train bombing. 9/11 is the worst terrorism any western country has ever seen, at least IMO. They hijacked 4 planes, destroyed 2 huge buildings, killed 3000 people, and hit the HQ of the most powerful military in the world. It was a pretty bad attack, I can see how all these things passed.
But now that the dust has settled and everyone has cooled down, I think we need to seriously reconsider some policies
We've been putting up with the IRA (and their mostly American backers) for years without becoming entirely paranoid like the US is.
Reacting in that way right after a terrorist incident HAD just happened and others were being averted isn't paranioa: it's a real situation and mistakes happen.
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 53): Remember, just a few weeks after the Tube bombings, when armed police chased down a completely innocent man, and shot him point blank in the head 7 times?
The so-called "War on terror". Sadly there are always innocent people hurt in war.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 57, posted (3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 515 times:
Quoting lewis (Reply 54): For Americans it was the first time that a foreign entity actually targeted civilians in the country
Maybe you forgot the first time Al-Qaeda tried to bring down the Towers? Maybe you forget that Mexican, Colombian, and Nicaraguan cartels have been terrorizing neighborhoods since before you and I were born?
Or, gee, maybe it's because Americans don't take kindly to being attacked on their own soil every other week.
Quoting lewis (Reply 54): and that caused a lot of paranoia and scaremongering
Opportunists are everywhere. If you think that hasn't happened in the UK or Europe, think again.
Quoting lewis (Reply 54): I think the British and the Spanish kept their cool a bit better.
Yep. Like I said, the British passed laws that are on par with the US, and the Spanish people decided to vote out their government and replace it with appeasing politicians.
Oh, did I mention that the Spanish attacks were specifically designed to influence their election? Apples to oranges.
Quoting lewis (Reply 54): There is no doubt that US police officers are more trigger-happy than their UK colleagues.
Apples to oranges yet again. Most UK police don't carry guns. Your comparison is moot.
lewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3095 posts, RR: 6 Reply 58, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 427 times:
Happy that I gave you a good laugh.
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 57): Opportunists are everywhere. If you think that hasn't happened in the UK or Europe, think again.
They do exist, the general population just doesn't buy it that easily.
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 57): Yep. Like I said, the British passed laws that are on par with the US, and the Spanish people decided to vote out their government and replace it with appeasing politicians.
I said, kept their cool a bit better. Of course there was a similar reaction but as far as I know, these countries never went as far as the US in removing basic rights from their citizens for "suspicion" of involvement in terrorism in the name of the war on terror.
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 57): Or, gee, maybe it's because Americans don't take kindly to being attacked on their own soil every other week.
That is probably the problem for some few Americans, the fact that they think that other countries enjoy being attacked on their soil on a daily basis.
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 57):
Oh, did I mention that the Spanish attacks were specifically designed to influence their election? Apples to oranges.
I am not looking for cause here but for effect, specifically the psychological effect in the population of a city/country that leads to whatever they decide to legislate and the approval of such laws. Ten years after 9/11 and you still have people in the US being OK with whatever laws the government puts out in the name of security, some of which are borderline unconstitutional. Same laws may exist in other countries too (UK), but not too many defend those laws there.
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The two should have been questioned and let go with a stern warning. I bet if you did this to Israel they would have been able to figure this out and they are the benchmark for how security should be. 
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