DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 2697 posts, RR: 25 Reply 1, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1244 times:
Well actually, some AKs are built pretty nicely and not treated horribly, so know really knows how this thing shoots. I have no idea what he is doing but it wouldn't be the first time a North Korean ruler baffled me.
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 2697 posts, RR: 25 Reply 4, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1227 times:
Quoting NoUFO (Reply 3): how he handles the gun while trying to put in the mag.
Oh haha I see. Btw, how hard is it for gun owners in Germany? I know a lot of crazy people shoot up everywhere and give gun owners a bad name, sadly, making it very hard for collectors...
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 334 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1227 times:
Rather at the beginning (around 12 minutes or so), there is a silvery pistol in a gift box. The box is handed over in a room with a huge globe - remembered me of Hynkel's office in "The Great Dictator"...
redflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4078 posts, RR: 32 Reply 7, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1211 times:
Screw the gun...what I want to know is who cuts this douchebag's hair? Does he not look in the mirror in the mornings and realize he looks like an idiot?
canoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1194 times:
Quoting NoUFO (Reply 6): No idea, compared to the U.S. it certainly is pretty hard. I am sure Jan (MD11Engineer) will be able to tell you.
Jan is quite knowledgeable about gun ownership in Germany. It's not extremely hard to own hunting rifles, but yes compared to the US more difficult. I looked for one of his old posts on it but they've been archived.
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1): Well actually, some AKs are built pretty nicely and not treated horribly, so know really knows how this thing shoots.
That looks like a Zastava M76 sniper rifle. Similar to the Dragunov. If I'm right it would shoot the 8 x 57mm cartridge not the 7.62 x 39mm that the AK does.
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 2697 posts, RR: 25 Reply 10, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1179 times:
Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 9): Jan is quite knowledgeable about gun ownership in Germany. It's not extremely hard to own hunting rifles, but yes compared to the US more difficult. I looked for one of his old posts on it but they've been archived.
It's too bad they don't have a collector's license. While I believe in the right to bear arms, I can see why a country would want to have less guns floating around, but there is a huge difference between 'some dude' having a gun and collectors... collectors are very knowledgeable on guns, gun safety, and usually aren't the type that goes blasting others.
Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 9): That looks like a Zastava M76 sniper rifle. Similar to the Dragunov. If I'm right it would shoot the 8 x 57mm cartridge not the 7.62 x 39mm that the AK does.
Yeah, I figured it might have been something different. Not too many scoped AKs, but it didn't have that 'Dragunov' look to it, so I got lazy and said AK. I know I say this about just about every gun you mention, and it's totally coincidence, but I was looking into eventually getting a M76 or Dragunov one day
canoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 11 Reply 11, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1167 times:
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10): Yeah, I figured it might have been something different. Not too many scoped AKs, but it didn't have that 'Dragunov' look to it, so I got lazy and said AK. I know I say this about just about every gun you mention, and it's totally coincidence, but I was looking into eventually getting a M76 or Dragunov one day
Cosmetically, they really aren't that different from an AK. Easy mistake to make. Besides, I could be wrong, NK has their own arms manufacturing plants. Some of those they copy from Russian or Chinese arms look a little different.
JJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1487 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1124 times:
Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 9): Jan is quite knowledgeable about gun ownership in Germany. It's not extremely hard to own hunting rifles, but yes compared to the US more difficult. I looked for one of his old posts on it but they've been archived.
I guess the rules will be very similar to Spain's, so here you go.
Easiest guns to get are long guns for hunting (be it shotgun, rifle or carbine). You need to have a valid hunting license (which includes a simple exam on hunting practices and game species) and pass a simple medic test (eyesight, coordination, etc. it's very similar to the one you need to take for driving). Once you get everything, you go up the Guardia Civil who will make you yet another exam on firearms safety, in which you will also have to properly load, unload, load again and shoot two shotgun or five rifle rounds and hit a 50cm. target 25 meters away, observing proper safety procedures during the whole process. Once you get the exam done, you have to get a certificate from the Police stating you haven't been convicted and another certificate from a psych stating you don't have any severe mental illness.
The whole process takes about 15 days, and costs about 100 euro, from then onwards, the yearly renewal costs about 14 euro.
This allows you to own from the start a single shotgun (D license) or rifle/carbine (E license). Every time you renew your license you can apply for additional guns and/or additional class. All hunting guns are modified to have a 3-round magazine only.
Guns for target practice follow a similar process, but you have to be member of a shooting club and compete in a regional competition at least once every two years. You used to be able to just get a .22 with the first year, then apply for bigger calibers, but with the advent of IPSC you can now get a 9mm or even higher with your first year.
For collectors and antiques, there's a special license that makes i easier tto own multiple weapons (an unlimited number, actually), you have to prove they're properly stored (lockers, etc.) and you can shoot them on ranges, too, and keep one on your house, too. Muzzle-loaders and guns made before 1870 automatically qualify, for the rest you have to provide a reason why they're historically significant and/or unique (so, if you're a WW2 collector a Garand or Mosin-Nagant would qualify).
Then there are the guns for professionals (armed guards/police/bodyguards) and guns for self-defense which are quite difficult to get. On the first case, your employer does it for you, on the second you have to prove there's a significant risk for you (jeweller, any business that involves lots of cash and/or valuable items, famous person, you've been threatened by some group, etc.).
Larshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1041 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1086 times:
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10): It's too bad they don't have a collector's license. While I believe in the right to bear arms, I can see why a country would want to have less guns floating around, but there is a huge difference between 'some dude' having a gun and collectors... collectors are very knowledgeable on guns, gun safety, and usually aren't the type that goes blasting others.
It isn't the collectors that goes blasting others but people will get to know these guys have guns and that will pose a problem. I wouldn't have a problem with a gun collector license if the guns are disabled so they won't be able to fire again.
I am a member of a shooting club myself but I think there is a difference between owning a .22 cal target pistol or enven a single 9 mm used and stored on the shooting range, and having 10 large calibre guns lying around in the house.
In order to be able to buy a bolt action rifle cal. 22 or 6,5x55mm in Denmark you have to be an active shooter in a club. And for a pistol you have to be active in the same club for 2 years. The other possibility to get a rifle is to get a hunters license which requires passing a theoretical and a practical test and then a further test for rifle hunting. You will not be able to legally buy a semi automatic rifle in Denmark. And of course you need to have a clean criminal record.
jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 24 Reply 14, posted (3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1078 times:
Laws vary wildly across Europe.
In the Netherlands they're extremely strict. Not sure about hunting rifles, but for the normal guy (who doesn't have a hunting license) it comes down to:
- apply for a permit to visit a gun club (yes, you need a police permit to VISIT one)
- go and apply for membership
- apply for a police background check as part of the membership application
- be an "active member in good standing" for a year
- apply for a police background check to be allowed to file an application for a firearms license
- select the weapon you want to buy, make, model, and serial number
- apply for a firearms license
- apply for a permit to buy that weapon
- store weapon at the club, you're not allowed to store it at home. You're also not allowed to transport it (to the club or anywhere) without additional licenses, so you'd best ask the store or someone at the club to do it for you.
- 5 years later you can apply for an additional license, after more police background checks, to transport the gun and store it at home
- when granted such a license, you give the police unlimited access to your home as part of the conditions for the permit, meaning they can search and seize at your property without a warrant or probable cause. You also consent to the police having the authority to revoke the license and confiscate the weapon with or without explanation of court order.
canoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 11 Reply 15, posted (3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1060 times:
I'm not sure I'm clear on this one point. You say that you can get a 9mm or greater caliber in your first year, which is typically a pistol or carbine round.
Quoting JJJ (Reply 12): You used to be able to just get a .22 with the first year, then apply for bigger calibers, but with the advent of IPSC you can now get a 9mm or even higher with your first year.
But then you say this.
Quoting JJJ (Reply 12): Then there are the guns for professionals (armed guards/police/bodyguards) and guns for self-defense which are quite difficult to get.
What's the difference? Is it the number of rounds the pistol can carry in the magazine?
Quoting JJJ (Reply 12): Muzzle-loaders and guns made before 1870 automatically qualify, for the rest you have to provide a reason why they're historically significant and/or unique (so, if you're a WW2 collector a Garand or Mosin-Nagant would qualify).
Do they require you to modify the collectable/unique guns at all? A Nagant is a firearm I would think most countries would find as more of a hunting gun since the magazine only holds 5 rounds and it's a bolt action rifle, but the Garand is a semi-automatic 10 shot firearm.
Quoting jwenting (Reply 14): Suffice to say, very few people bother.
falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5177 posts, RR: 33 Reply 16, posted (3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1058 times:
Quoting Larshjort (Reply 13): I wouldn't have a problem with a gun collector license if the guns are disabled so they won't be able to fire again.
Then it isn't a gun, according to US law. I am a gun collector (I have over 40 guns) and I would never want to own something I couldn't shoot.
Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 9): That looks like a Zastava M76 sniper rifle. Similar to the Dragunov. If I'm right it would shoot the 8 x 57mm cartridge not the 7.62 x 39mm that the AK does.
I think that is an M76, not an AK. Not much of a point putting a scope on a AK-47.
Quoting jwenting (Reply 14): You also consent to the police having the authority to revoke the license and confiscate the weapon with or without explanation of court order.
That doesn't sound anything like a free and open society to me. If the government doesn't trust its citizens to possess firearms at their homes and businesses then the government is untrustworthy.
Quoting Larshjort (Reply 13): The other possibility to get a rifle is to get a hunters license which requires passing a theoretical and a practical test and then a further test for rifle hunting
What a great way to discourage people from hunting. The animal rights groups must love that. Hunting is a great sport and by making it so difficult for people to enjoy you limiting the number of people who will even want to give it a try. Hunting, fishing and other outdoor activities need to be encouraged not discouraged.
canoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 11 Reply 17, posted (3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1055 times:
Quoting falstaff (Reply 16):
Then it isn't a gun, according to US law. I am a gun collector (I have over 40 guns) and I would never want to own something I couldn't shoot.
Deactivated drill rifles are fairly common even here in the US. Jan I believe owns a few so he can practice gunsmithing and given European gun laws its much easier to buy one that doesn't shoot if all you're going to do is practice taking it apart. Although, I agree personally I would never buy a gun I couldn't shoot.
Quoting falstaff (Reply 16): What a great way to discourage people from hunting. The animal rights groups must love that. Hunting is a great sport and by making it so difficult for people to enjoy you limiting the number of people who will even want to give it a try. Hunting, fishing and other outdoor activities need to be encouraged not discouraged.
In theory I don't have a problem with someone being required to take a hunters education class in order to get a hunting license. Growing up in Missouri I was required to take one when I was 13 or 14 in order to get a hunting license. Anyone born after 1966 is required to. It didn't require actually firing the weapon but it did cover:
You will receive a minimum of 10 hours of classroom training plus additional time for testing, practical exercises, videos and other classroom discussion usually taught in two or three sessions. Classes typically require 12-16 total hours to complete. Topics covered include the following:
Hunter responsibility and ethics
How firearms work and firearm safety
Wildlife identification, game care, survival and first aid skills
Firearm handling skills and hunting techniques
Awareness about wildlife conservation and management
Rules and information unique to Missouri.
At the end of the class you will take a written examination. You need a score of 80 percent to pass the course.
There are some exceptions to the requirement. I believe you are exempted if you hunt in a group and someone in that group has taken the class.
NoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7477 posts, RR: 15 Reply 18, posted (3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1040 times:
The thread has moved from a slap at a dictator to the usual gun-ownership discussion, but that's okay in my book.
Quoting jwenting (Reply 14): meaning they can search and seize at your property without a warrant or probable cause
That doesn't sound right. I don' think police can seize your property without cause. In the end a court will have the last word, after all everything else would be in breach with some European laws. You probably meant to say that police can check if your guns are properly secured and seize them, guns and ammo only, if they are not (at least in the opinion of the policemen).
But gun ownership means little to nothing in most European countries, Germany included, Norway perhaps excluded. Would the U.S. adopt our set of regulations, I am sure there would be a huge outcry. I guess in Germany it is easier to find people who want even stricter gun laws than individuals who consider those laws too strict.
Beautiful things can be built even from stones placed in your way. - Goethe
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 2697 posts, RR: 25 Reply 19, posted (3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1031 times:
Quoting Larshjort (Reply 13): It isn't the collectors that goes blasting others but people will get to know these guys have guns and that will pose a problem. I wouldn't have a problem with a gun collector license if the guns are disabled so they won't be able to fire again.
Booooo that's the fun of owning guns, to shoot things! (non-human things lol.) Maybe in Europe where guns are scarce, collectors run into problems. But I think it's easier just to get your own gun here rather than steal one.
Quoting NoUFO (Reply 18): The thread has moved from a slap at a dictator to the usual gun-ownership discussion, but that's okay in my book.
lol, we can make fun of Kimmie more if you want
Quoting NoUFO (Reply 18): I guess in Germany it is easier to find people who want even stricter gun laws than individuals who consider those laws too strict.
Wow how could they be even more strict?? (rhetorical question more than anything)
canoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 11 Reply 20, posted (3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1031 times:
Quoting NoUFO (Reply 18): The thread has moved from a slap at a dictator to the usual gun-ownership discussion, but that's okay in my book.
So far it's been fairly benign as gun threads on A-net go though. Besides, the thread title and first post were fairly ambiguous.
Quoting NoUFO (Reply 18): But gun ownership means little to nothing in most European countries, Germany included, Norway perhaps excluded.
I do find these threads interesting to research the cultural/legal differences of European gun ownership laws to the US. Some countries in Europe differ greatly than the Netherlands although they are restrictive. Italy seems to at least provide for hunting and collecting. They even have a collectors license that allows the holder to have an unlimited number of weapons (that fall under certain categories).
And the Swiss allow men in the armed forces to bring their automatic weapons home. Although for decades that's been fairly normal there because of their unique circumstances. Among collectors the Swiss Schmidt Rubin K31 is highly collectable.
I was surprised that Poland and the Czech Republic differ so much. Poland has one of the lowest rates of gun ownership in the EU and the Czech Republic is one of the few countries in Europe that allows citizens to carry concealed weapons without a reason.
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 334 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1016 times:
Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 20): And the Swiss allow men in the armed forces to bring their automatic weapons home. Although for decades that's been fairly normal there because of their unique circumstances.
Well, there are some myths around the Swiss soldier and his rifle...
Since some time, they can't bring the Taschenmunition ("bag ammo", a tin canister with 50 rounds) home. The firing pin too - because the .222 Remington can be easily purchased and fired in the SIG 550. I'm aware that it is a touchy subject for Swiss people, but most of the suicides and family murders were carried out with army weapons.
On the other hand, I haven't yet heard of any criminals using army rifles.
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 2697 posts, RR: 25 Reply 22, posted (3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 994 times:
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 21): Since some time, they can't bring the Taschenmunition ("bag ammo", a tin canister with 50 rounds) home. The firing pin too - because the .222 Remington can be easily purchased and fired in the SIG 550. I'm aware that it is a touchy subject for Swiss people, but most of the suicides and family murders were carried out with army weapons.
Well I can't obviously argue with you (given your flag) but I thought I read that they had their fully functional automatic rifle, unmodified, and about 100 (?) or so rounds that they CAN'T open. They are there so they can fight their way to the nearest armory and get supplies and ammo there, and their emergency rounds are inspected to make sure they aren't opened.
...all according to the mighty wikipedia and how well I retained that information...
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 334 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 992 times:
Hello DeltaMD90,
Until 2011 (or 2010) they took home their unmodified and fully functional SIG 550. In autumn 2007 it was declared that servicemen have to return their 50 rounds of "bag ammo" (a picture is here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taschenmunition ), and it was true that you had to show the unopened can of "bag ammo". But then, as of 2009, about 1000 servicepeople have lost their ammo... (Yes, there are instances of servicepeople who have "lost" their SIG 550. Normal people forget their umbrella in the train, soldiers... )
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 22): They are there so they can fight their way to the nearest armory and get supplies and ammo there,
Well, because your neighborhood does not consist of the same military branch, you'd have to fight +/- alone an in a unorganized manner. And I can't think of a scenario where you had to fight through a military-controlled ammo depot and continue the fight there... short of a civil war. In WW II, free ammo was given to any able-bodied non-serviceman; but I don't know how and when the tradition of storing the rifle at home arose.
A funny quirk is that every serviceman has to do shooting practice at a range once a year. (And I thought that solitary rifle fire was a thing of the WW I trenches...) And then, they're allowed to use their military-issue rifle for civilian shooting competitions – and quite nobody shoots with Olympic rifles which are allowed in international competitions. Given the price of such a rifle (I found a number of 3000 US$), I think this to be an unfair subsidy. I'd love to get 3000 $ worth of mountaineering stuff.
Well... I learned that I need glasses during a .22 long rifle competition...
Sweet, I was right 2-3 years ago lol. I loved Switzerland, still my favorite foreign country I've been to, and think they have a good thing going with their military/militia. I think the US should have something *voluntary,* I mean, the 2nd Amendment pretty much is talking about a militia. National training with firearms would undoubtedly make us safer (people would know how to use firearms safely when they come across them.) I say voluntary because I think anyone should be able to opt out of it... I'm all for personal freedoms
Ron Paul 2012!
25 NoUFO: Weisungen betreffend die Taschenmunition You Eidgenossen call that bureaucratic gibberish German?
26 JJJ: Nope, the difference is the first license I talked about is for target practice only. Theoretically you can only fire it in approved ranges and you'r
27 canoecarrier: Thank you for the clarification. Interestingly enough, I respect the EU countries for requiring guns to be kept in a safe. I don't necessarily think
28 flyingturtle: That wasn't mich, I schwöre! The names of some of your laws also leave me drooling... The main problem with our army is that it is still too big. Ge
29 falstaff: I don't have a problem with hunters safety courses either. I have a feeling the courses in many European countries are a lot different than what we g
30 falstaff: He is doing it wrong.... I'll show him the right way!
31 canoecarrier: Show off. Is that a Polish or Yugo pistol there? Without a doubt. Any of our European friends here able to copy/paste a short description of what one
32 DeltaMD90: Don't know who's SKS that is on the very left of that picture, but just advice for its owner... I would NOT shoot that grenade off... the grendade ho
33 falstaff: Romanian, made in 1952. I have shot it a few times. I never had any problem. I used some East German blanks and it shot rather well. I tied bright or
34 DeltaMD90: Hm weird, mine was all dented up the first time and broken the second time. And the first time it landed on a rotting log. I did try and attach a str
35 L-188: I can't say that. I have bought a rifle that I have no intention of shooting. In my defense it is (based on SN) a late July/Early August 1945 Type 99
36 falstaff: I only shot it four times, and it was all in my buddy's farm field, which was soft tilled up dirt. It had some dents in it though. I had two of them
37 canoecarrier: I've heard of this contraption before as well. Sounds like fun, they claim you can shoot a golf ball 500 yards. http://www.bloomautomatic.com/index_f
38 DeltaMD90: I know there is a difference but I forgot which one I got... Yes, this link. Looks very fun lol
39 AirframeAS: I was thinking the SAME thing.... I thought I was hallucinating when I saw the scope, I thought I was the only one that noticed the scope. I have nev
40 DeltaMD90: The funny thing is though, I've seen a LOT of AK's with a scope mount on the left side of the receiver. Attaches like this: not sure if this is an AK
41 falstaff: My Type 99 was made in 1945, by Mazda. It is 906 (according to the serial number) to the last one they made. I have shot it and it shoots great. I do
42 JJJ: I forgot a key point: full-autos are considered war guns and are absolutely prohibited to the public. They're for public museums only. There's a writ
43 canoecarrier: Contrary to what most people think, it is difficult to get a license that would allow you to own a new fully automatic weapon here. Thanks for postin
44 DeltaMD90: I didn't think it was possible at all unless you were a dealer. You talking about importing brand new autos for your own personal use?
45 canoecarrier: We're getting a little into the fine print of the law now. I'll start by saying if you're in a state like California, forget it as state and local la
46 DeltaMD90: Ah ok. I knew about this, I thought you were talking about a brand new one. It is fun shooting off full auto, but I doubt I'll ever spend the tens of
47 MD11Engineer: As for the gun shown in the video, I think that it is simply an AK74M fitted with an optical sight (the AK74M is factory equipped to be fitted with a
48 MD11Engineer: Just watched the whole "documentary". I have to say that most of the women shown there look extremely cute! Jan
49 falstaff: It's just for show in the picture, it isn't loaded. If it was loaded I wouldn't be carrying there with a round in the chamber. To keep things easy yo
50 canoecarrier: To add to that, most guns that will be going on the collectors list from here-on are most likely to be handguns. The more sought after collectable gu
51 falstaff: I am looking for an East German Makarov. In 2000/2001 they were selling for less than $150 on the wholesale market and I was seeing them retail for l
52 DeltaMD90: I'm getting a wish list going. For me, the guns that interest me the most are "bootleg" ones (in which I throw a stereotypical net over East European
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